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 FI/RE - Financial Independence / Retire Early

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dwRK
post May 17 2023, 12:11 AM

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QUOTE(kochin @ May 16 2023, 10:27 PM)
guys, am thinking of taking the next step.

kindly advise if i have left out anything?

assuming if there are flaws or things i left out in the calculation please highlight.

ideally of course hoping that current savings are sufficient to cover and be in self sustaining mode, but of course if inflation rises, can always start "eating" into the current savings.

if anybody is able to help to improve the spreadsheet to say:
inflation rate at 3% to 5%, what would be the current required savings (both basic and upgrade version) value to cover the increase year on year for me to say live another 35 years.
alternatively same scenario applies but without self sustaining model but depreciating savings model.

thanks.

PS: any advise on what to do post retirement? i am currently in mid 40's
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food 500 per month too low typo probably... i family dinner on mother's day ald 800...

traveling i assume is vacation also too low imho...

angpow money and such?

additionally can budget say 5k per year for whatever.... phone, pc, tv, etc...

dwRK
post May 17 2023, 08:20 AM

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QUOTE(Wedchar2912 @ May 16 2023, 11:54 PM)
Implicit in your pdf example is that the return on capital (4%) is real rate of return.
Ie, what you are targeting is to have your portfolio earn a nominal return of of around 7% (= 4% real return + 3% inflation), if you are assuming inflation moving forward is 3%. If not, the npv of your portfolio will erode as time passes.

if you assume 5% inflation, then you are basically saying your portfolio needs to earn nominal return of 9%.

I think you now realize that 4% nominal return is not sufficient... need to take riskier investments.

To have a depreciating assets as time passes is harder to example, but would be easier to visualize using a excel spreadsheet. It is similar to calculating mortgage payment of each month and where the payment goes to: reducing outstanding balance or interest payment.
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??? 4% return on capital

he just doing the 4% spending rule in reverse... instead of savings * 4% = spending... he doing savings = spending / 4%

dwRK
post May 17 2023, 09:30 AM

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QUOTE(kochin @ May 17 2023, 08:59 AM)
yes i forgotten to factor in ang pow and phone/pc replacement say once every 3-5 years.
fyi i got my ip7 from launch and still using it although i think it's time for a change.
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angpow not just for cny yeah... wedding, pak kum, etc... but tbh not big money lah... i just throw these in because your list so detail... sweat.gif

QUOTE
travelling is meant for local travel and the "upgrade" which has a factor of RM6k per annum allows me to travel yearly somewhere below that threshold or travel somewhere <rm12k every 2 years. does that make sense?

ok. didn't see the upgrades. much better

QUOTE
and forgot to mention, everything is based on individual for the time being.
as the saying goes, help yourself before helping others.

nope... i go by... my money is her money... her money is her money... biggrin.gif half your list covers spouse/kids already, might as well budget for all... its just planning anyways to give an idea what is needed...

dwRK
post May 17 2023, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(low yat 82 @ May 17 2023, 11:04 AM)
if basic

1.7million x 1.03^35 = 4.78million

upgrade version roughly 6.2million

in chinese vocab, there is not really hav retirement.  rolleyes.gif

ur spreadsheet shows u hav balance distribution of money across all expenditure categories for an individual.
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correct formula escalating current value to future value...

but is not what he needs

dwRK
post May 17 2023, 03:25 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ May 17 2023, 11:38 AM)
I haven't take a look at excel but if you got 5%p.a dividend and it's growing say 5-6%p a you should be able to live off to infinity even with inflation at 4%p.a

If you wan to make sure your investment can outlive you. You might want to take a look at safe withdrawal rates by kyith from investmentmoats (warning wall of text) but you might find gems in there.

What to do in retirement
1. Travel with your spouse 1 country per year
2. Be there for your kids when they need you
3. Gardening , build your own mini farm and get vegetables from there. This will usually take up half a day
4. Volunteer at soup kitchen, animal shelters
5. Join those uncle and aunties for taichi every morning
6. Read books
7. Play computer games like Skyrim, red dead redemption, elden ring, fallout.
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good list... should also add jaga cucu, n afternoon nap...

dwRK
post May 17 2023, 03:42 PM

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QUOTE(magika @ May 17 2023, 01:47 PM)
Instead of intricate budgeting, why not do a simple one. Tally all your credit cards monthly spending and all your cash withdrawal yearly, divide by 12 to get monthly average. There you will have your required monthly and yearly expenditure , which then you can calculate your requirements for retirement.
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this is even more work... need to download 12 months of cc n bank statements... maybe across a few cc and banks... not to mention is backwards looking...

his way is easier imho... also he already done it, just asking if he missed any big ticket items... wink.gif

dwRK
post May 17 2023, 04:09 PM

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QUOTE(Wedchar2912 @ May 17 2023, 12:11 PM)
yes, the inflation concern is on spending. Nonetheless, it is your assets/portfolio that is funding your spending. So to simplify the calculation, we either calculate everything in nominal terms or in inflation-adjusted terms.
(if you calculate your portfolio in nominal while spending in inflation-adjusted, your excel spreadsheet will get trickier.)

btw, the actual formula to adjust between nominal and inflation adjusted is (1+nominal) = (1+real) * (1+inflation).
I would hazard to guess that what you are trying to do in your formula a% + (b% * c%) is to say a is real return and b is spending and c is inflation, but summing them up doesn't mean anything as they are not of the same unit measurement. a relates to portfolio and b relates to spending.

Like what others say, there should be a misc item where you just throw some buffer in for spending. Sort of like emergency spending money, to account of error in planning.
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no need to complicate stuff lah... hahaha... im sure he's not retiring the moment his savings hits 4% of spending... biggrin.gif


dwRK
post May 17 2023, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(batman1172 @ May 17 2023, 04:12 PM)
this FI/RE thingy is new concept ? never heard of it until now. if retire early then do what?
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escape from rat race... shake leg... enjoy life...

dwRK
post May 17 2023, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ May 17 2023, 05:12 PM)
So many things to do leh. Imagine waking up without alarm clock, go for morning jog or taichi, then only go to work. Work also until you want then just leave early. No need to bring work back to house.
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some ppl likes hussle bussle high pressure corporate world... usually they in upper management...

lower management with no hope progressing getting shit on by upper management usually the ppl wanna retire early... biggrin.gif

dwRK
post May 17 2023, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(Sihambodoh @ May 17 2023, 05:44 PM)
I concur, some really just love the stress and politics in a corporate career.

But then again not all who are capable want to climb up the corporate ladder. Some just want peace in life. Some just want to spend more time on their family and hobbies.
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yes i know some people like this... no chance for FI or RE... forever middle class... and they are content...


This post has been edited by dwRK: May 17 2023, 10:51 PM
dwRK
post May 17 2023, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(magika @ May 17 2023, 04:26 PM)
If you look at his spreadsheet,  its fantasy wheras my way is reality.

Its not difficult with online banking to download monthly statements of credit cards and savings account. Been doing that as retired early for many years now. I also did a quarterly review so that can keep track.
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half are actual spending iirc... only the food bit is too low, the mrs probably does the groceries... smile.gif the rest looks ok... dunno how much validation he has done, so i wouldn't call it fantasy...

dwRK
post May 18 2023, 11:39 AM

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QUOTE(Sihambodoh @ May 18 2023, 09:57 AM)
Their biggest fallacy is the spend as much as they earn putting themselves in perpetual debt.
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that is different group of ppl lah... one kind one... hahaha...

dwRK
post May 18 2023, 06:53 PM

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QUOTE(Wedchar2912 @ May 18 2023, 05:45 PM)
but the real question is what is the cutoff to be T10 and is that number really enough to survive for 20 years?

here many already saying 2 million ringgit is not enough to retire... so I guess T10 is destined not to retire also.
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you decide if you can then go ahead lor... who cares t10, t1, dll... smile.gif

dwRK
post May 19 2023, 05:53 PM

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beggars are also...

financially independence n retire early.... hmmm...

rclxm9.gif

dwRK
post May 20 2023, 12:43 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ May 20 2023, 09:36 AM)
Actually I quit my job too. Told my boss to f**k off. He said you don't need the money meh? I told him if I need the money I would be working. I am resigning right? He got a shocked and keep quiet.

My passive income have more or less match my active income so I took the leap of faith. But I will still be working free lance.

Cannot tahan the horrible office politics in this Chinaman company.

Will be experiencing what is lean FIRE is like. Lol.
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you selling options full time right...? i still consider it active income lah... just minimal work only... wink.gif

but really a lot of malaysian company cannot tahan... really take their workforce for granted...

dwRK
post May 20 2023, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(MGM @ May 20 2023, 11:22 AM)
In Oz u will face less racial bias if u r a professional like engineer, doctor, architect, programmer, STEM jobs that the whites shun. What is your daughter's occupation?
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i think a lot have learned to be friendly... but deep down not really your friend... just less outwardly hostile...

dwRK
post May 20 2023, 12:52 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ May 20 2023, 09:50 AM)
And here I am I thought Australia is an ok country. sad.gif
Was planning to take exams and go to Australia.
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every country you go to... you will be 2nd class citizen... no country is perfect... just have to deal with it...

dwRK
post May 20 2023, 12:59 PM

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QUOTE(CommodoreAmiga @ May 20 2023, 09:07 AM)
Updated above...but I guess RM2.5k per pax is a safe calculation.

And I am totally debt free (when I choose to retired, I cleared all my debts).
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this is a good number... reminds me of starting pay which gets me thinking... 50% above minimum wage should be a very reasonable amount

my planning is rm 100 per pax per day for comfy living...

dwRK
post May 20 2023, 04:19 PM

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QUOTE(gashout @ May 20 2023, 03:19 PM)
wow, how old are you?

you got guts!  thumbup.gif
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more importantly.... he got a working system... rclxms.gif

dwRK
post May 20 2023, 04:29 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ May 20 2023, 02:29 PM)
Yup that's right. Ok la. My profit for past 6 months have been hovering in the range of USD300-400/week.
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nice... thumbsup.gif

actually i think can consider FIRE also lah... afterall, at most 1 hr of work a day... and money rolling in... just not passive shake leg kind only... biggrin.gif

i been thinking to teach my kids trading for their backup... $50 a day easy target pocket money...


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