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 FI/RE - Financial Independence / Retire Early

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thesnake
post Sep 24 2025, 04:19 PM

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its easy to say buy.. but when markets tumbles, many of these so called investors panic sell.. i am not one of them.. so best for me is to wait for a crash and deploy.. i think its a good idea.
MUM
post Sep 24 2025, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(jasontoh @ Sep 24 2025, 04:15 PM)
I'm trying to build my cash reserve to a better ratio, but recently not so easy as market on rampage. I did ask Ramjade about his cash holding, since he is able to churn out cash from options. I was hoping to be able to be at least 30% in cash holdings but it might take a while since my options exposure not that high.
*
Many or most of those dividends stocks holdings will also suffer when mkts dropped, ....

During those good days, they will reinvest the dividends earned into the same holdings and do monthly buy as they believed those are good quality holdings.

The size of their holdings will continue to grow from those periodic reinvestment of their dividends and from their monthly pay.

Psychologically or mentally, one may not be easily move their capital from platform that can give them easy gain investment, time tested, very confident can make cash flow money every week into buying stocks.
For the amount of new cash deployed may just improve abit of the average cost price.
For they may think the stock price they bought cheap can became cheaper too
If they keep on wait, May missed the low already.
For they does not know when it will recovers to predrop price level too.
The need for cash preservation mindset may also set in during mkts corrections thus prevent them from deploying cash flow cow from current sure win platform to buy stocks during mkts correction.
I think they may just continues to buy stock with the monthly reinvestment from dividend and monthly pay if their is no impact to their job security during mkts crashes




This post has been edited by MUM: Sep 24 2025, 05:29 PM
Ramjade
post Sep 24 2025, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(thesnake @ Sep 24 2025, 04:19 PM)
its easy to say buy.. but when markets tumbles, many of these so called investors panic sell.. i am not one of them.. so best for me is to wait for a crash and deploy.. i think its a good idea.
*
I walk the talk. The US market always have crash. Don't be afraid. Keep buying.
MUM
post Sep 24 2025, 04:58 PM

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QUOTE(thesnake @ Sep 24 2025, 04:19 PM)
its easy to say buy.. but when markets tumbles, many of these so called investors panic sell.. i am not one of them.. so best for me is to wait for a crash and deploy.. i think its a good idea.
*
You yourself need define what is considered as crash or set the % of drops from previous high then stick to it no matter what others tell you.

Since you had waited and accumulated abt 1 mil for snp500 crash to happens before you are willing to deploy yr cash.
I will assume you are not looking at mere 20% drops from previous high as a precursor to deploying cash. As in under the last 5 yrs there are 2x Snp500 had dropped 20%.

Btw, where do you park your 1 mil deployable cash while waiting for snp500 crash?
I think it must not be in equity like stocks holdings....

guy3288
post Sep 24 2025, 06:15 PM

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del

This post has been edited by guy3288: Sep 24 2025, 06:19 PM
guy3288
post Sep 24 2025, 06:15 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Sep 24 2025, 03:46 PM)
Buy the dip and catch the falling knife have never fail me. Wealth is build in a down market and realised when market is going up. Will the price drop further? Yes. Just keeping on the way down. Everytime the market dip, my wealth networth grows.
*
bro that doesnt sound right.

say you have cash X, and stocks abcd etc
your net worth now is X + value of abcd etc


when market dip
prices drop
so is your stocks value in abcd
your networth will go down, not up
Cash in X remain same


it falls further and you keep buying
your cash X will reduce so are the stocks value
you bought higher before this further drop

your networth will go down and down
not up bro.

PS: and note
if your stock drop 50%
later when it rise 50%
you are still losing money
you need 100% rise to beat that 50% drop
only to break even, still no profit!

This post has been edited by guy3288: Sep 24 2025, 06:27 PM
Ramjade
post Sep 24 2025, 07:22 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Sep 24 2025, 06:15 PM)
bro that doesnt sound right.

say you have cash X, and stocks abcd etc
your net worth now is X + value of abcd etc
when market dip
prices drop
so is your stocks value in abcd
your networth will go down, not up
Cash in X remain same
it falls further and you keep buying
your cash X  will reduce  so are the stocks value
you bought higher before this further drop

your networth will go down and down
not up bro.

PS: and note
if your stock drop 50%
later when it rise 50%
you are still losing money
you need  100% rise to beat that 50% drop
only to break even, still no profit!
*
Meant buy BTFD. So once market become goes up, I am green already. Have to read in between the lines 😂

Using the market fear to help myself.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Sep 24 2025, 07:53 PM
jasontoh
post Sep 24 2025, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Sep 24 2025, 04:44 PM)
Many or most of those dividends stocks holdings will also suffer when mkts dropped, ....

During those good days, they will reinvest the dividends earned into the same holdings and do monthly buy as they believed those are good quality holdings.

The size of their holdings will continue to grow from those periodic reinvestment of their dividends and from their monthly pay.

Psychologically or mentally, one may not be easily move their capital from platform that can give them easy gain investment, time tested, very confident can make cash flow money every week into buying stocks.
For the amount of new cash deployed may just improve abit of the average cost price.
For they may think the stock price they bought cheap can became cheaper too
If they keep on wait, May missed the low already.
For they does not know when it will recovers to predrop price level too.
The need for cash preservation mindset may also set in during mkts corrections thus prevent them from deploying cash flow cow from current sure win platform to buy stocks during mkts correction.
I think they may just continues to buy stock with the monthly reinvestment from dividend and monthly pay if their is no impact to their job security during mkts crashes
*
You are right, thus the strategy to deploy the cash holding is quite important also. I think reasonably good companies would most probably survive the storm, but I'm comfortable if market crashed and stocks drop to 50%; for US stocks I'll just turn on the DRIP, but for Malaysia and Singapore most probably have to be done manually. For new holdings sometimes drop 20% I'll start to dip into it. Regardless on selling, I do have stocks that have no intention of selling, these are the counters that I don't even sell call options. There are counters that I'll still sell either via selling call options or directly selling it if it is reaching my TP.


QUOTE(guy3288 @ Sep 24 2025, 06:15 PM)
bro that doesnt sound right.

say you have cash X, and stocks abcd etc
your net worth now is X + value of abcd etc
when market dip
prices drop
so is your stocks value in abcd
your networth will go down, not up
Cash in X remain same
it falls further and you keep buying
your cash X  will reduce  so are the stocks value
you bought higher before this further drop

your networth will go down and down
not up bro.

PS: and note
if your stock drop 50%
later when it rise 50%
you are still losing money
you need  100% rise to beat that 50% drop
only to break even, still no profit!
*
Yeah, this is what I thought so as well although I think the expectation is when market recover the net worth would be up.
But then again not only net worth, in fact I think the options premium would have been lowered as well.

This post has been edited by jasontoh: Sep 24 2025, 11:09 PM
guy3288
post Sep 25 2025, 12:13 AM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Sep 24 2025, 07:22 PM)
Meant buy BTFD. So once market become goes up, I am green already. Have to read in between the lines 😂

Using the market fear to help myself.
*
i know bro, but that statement market crash make my wealth grow is inherently untenable

some may wonder how negative numbers add to your wealth....
when you are actually
counting tomorrow's rebounds as today's riches
taking shrinking assets today as tomorrow's bragging rights?
ie putting the cart before the horse..as if you can see the future


for people like you holding stocks not selling
not the buy sell buy sell type

i think you have overstated your immunity 
like a bullet proof vehicle

by repeatedly telling
you welcome  market crash anytime
the more it goes down the better
......?? shakehead.gif

huh? this is quite outrageous

like a homeowner cheering for house fire
because water might get cheaper?

you only think of buying cheap sales
but what about the stocks in hand 
are they are not crashed as well?

i dont believe market crash only stocks that you dont have 
and spare yours in hand

dont forget a drop of 50% down 
requires a 100% up  only to break even.



QUOTE(jasontoh @ Sep 24 2025, 11:06 PM)
You are right, thus the strategy to deploy the cash holding is quite important also. I think reasonably good companies would most probably survive the storm, but I'm comfortable if market crashed and stocks drop to 50%; for US stocks I'll just turn on the DRIP, but for Malaysia and Singapore most probably have to be done manually. For new holdings sometimes drop 20% I'll start to dip into it. Regardless on selling, I do have stocks that have no intention of selling, these are the counters that I don't even sell call options. There are counters that I'll still sell either via selling call options or directly selling it if it is reaching my TP.
Yeah, this is what I thought so as well although I think the expectation is when market recover the net worth would be up.
But then again not only net worth, in fact I think the options premium would have been lowered as well.
*
if you are outside the market
yes you can cheer when market crashed
you got opportunity to buy in cheap

but if you are already strapped in
you dont wish for a crash
that is like cheering your flight turbulence in midair!


Ramjade
post Sep 25 2025, 02:18 AM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Sep 25 2025, 12:13 AM)
i know bro, but that statement market crash make my wealth grow is inherently untenable

some may wonder how negative numbers add to your wealth....
when you are actually
counting tomorrow's rebounds as today's riches
taking shrinking assets today as tomorrow's bragging rights?
ie putting the cart before the horse..as if you can see the future
for people like you holding stocks not selling
not the buy sell buy sell type

i think you have overstated your immunity 
like a  bullet proof vehicle

by repeatedly telling
you welcome  market crash anytime
the more it goes down the better
......?? shakehead.gif

huh? this is quite outrageous

like a homeowner cheering for house fire
because water might get cheaper?

you only think of buying cheap sales
but what about the stocks in hand 
are they are not crashed as well?

i dont believe market crash only stocks that you dont have 
and spare yours in hand

dont forget a drop of 50% down 
requires a 100% up  only to break even.
if you are outside the market
yes  you can cheer when market crashed
you  got opportunity to buy in cheap

but if you are already strapped in
you dont wish for a crash
that is like cheering your flight turbulence in midair!
*
As an accumulator I want market to drop. So what I am already holding stocks and so what if my current value drop?

I buying more man. The more it drops the more I keep buying. Been there done that.

Many of my stocks are build by BTFD. So I already have a huge margin of safety build in by BTFD. When you buy cheap you have a margin of safety. If you buy when it's expensive less margin of safety.

Since I am always a buyer, I love it when the market give me some decent discounts. If my portfolio drops 30% by all means bring it on. I am buying. Imagine DBS drop by 30%? I am scooping up more.

I don't sell unless fundamentals change or unless accidently assign during my options.

Why scared when
1. You are not selling anything.
2. You do need to sell in a down market to generate income to live off
3. You always have money coming in on a weekly basis regardless of market condition
4. You always want to be buying

At least that is me.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Sep 25 2025, 02:27 AM
guy3288
post Sep 25 2025, 09:01 AM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Sep 25 2025, 02:18 AM)
As an accumulator I want market to drop. So what I am already holding stocks and so what if my current value drop?

I buying more man. The more it drops the more I keep buying. Been there done that.

Many of my stocks are build by BTFD. So I already have a huge margin of safety build in by BTFD. When you buy cheap you have a margin of safety. If you buy when it's expensive less margin of safety.

Since I am always a buyer, I love it when the market give me some decent discounts. If my portfolio drops 30% by all means bring it on. I am buying. Imagine DBS drop by 30%? I am scooping up more.

I don't sell unless fundamentals change or unless accidently assign during my options.

Why scared when
1. You are not selling anything.
2. You do need to sell in a down market to generate income to live off
3. You always have money coming in on a weekly basis regardless of market condition
4. You always want to be buying

At least that is me.
*
Yes, you have come out  from all those crashes.......with just bruises, recovered  continue to grow up.......great.

this is the financial version of rooting for a car crash while you are behind the wheel......

 someone has survived a number of car accidents.....and he kept boasting........even  taunting the roads come bring me more  accidents....................i felt stronger each time as i survived !
jasontoh
post Sep 25 2025, 11:34 AM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Sep 25 2025, 12:13 AM)
i know bro, but that statement market crash make my wealth grow is inherently untenable

some may wonder how negative numbers add to your wealth....
when you are actually
counting tomorrow's rebounds as today's riches
taking shrinking assets today as tomorrow's bragging rights?
ie putting the cart before the horse..as if you can see the future
for people like you holding stocks not selling
not the buy sell buy sell type

i think you have overstated your immunity 
like a  bullet proof vehicle

by repeatedly telling
you welcome  market crash anytime
the more it goes down the better
......?? shakehead.gif

huh? this is quite outrageous

like a homeowner cheering for house fire
because water might get cheaper?

you only think of buying cheap sales
but what about the stocks in hand 
are they are not crashed as well?

i dont believe market crash only stocks that you dont have 
and spare yours in hand

dont forget a drop of 50% down 
requires a 100% up  only to break even.
if you are outside the market
yes  you can cheer when market crashed
you  got opportunity to buy in cheap

but if you are already strapped in
you dont wish for a crash
that is like cheering your flight turbulence in midair!
*
I don't cheer for crashed, but I have the backup plan should everything turn sour.
Wedchar2912
post Sep 25 2025, 12:08 PM

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QUOTE(jasontoh @ Sep 25 2025, 11:34 AM)
I don't cheer for crashed, but I have the backup plan should everything turn sour.
*
why not cheer for market to crash or rally.... both works for me... tongue.gif

prophetjul
post Sep 25 2025, 01:14 PM

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QUOTE(Wedchar2912 @ Sep 24 2025, 03:41 PM)
Honestly, the first one needs balls of steel actually.... somehow very difficult to execute...
like what some traders I know used to say.... harden your balls first... then execute. YOLO... lol
(just joking... anyone reading... pls think for yourself first)
*
Actually no need balls of steel., Just need to be ignorant of fear. Like me in 1989.
When Tiananmen happened, HKSE crash more than 25% resulting in HSBC shares crashing to HKD2.50 p share.
The fool that i was, my girlfriend was working in HSBC and i knew it was a solid bank.
i ploughed in 20,000 shares costing RM16,000.


20 years later, it was worth GBP9 per share. brows.gif SOLD everything.
Ploughed all the proceeds into Gold. biggrin.gif
Hansel
post Sep 25 2025, 01:39 PM

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QUOTE(coolguy_0925 @ Sep 23 2025, 08:29 PM)
eh want to expect no jam then autobahn is the wiser choice (I know not ITA tho) :grin:

that being said, I didn't notice anyone really drive fast there altho it is famous for no speed limit
*
I don’t know what your definition of fast is…. But I see vehicles going above 250 kmh on the autobahn at the left lane and I get honked at 100 kmh on the right lane…

The ctrl-panel in the car shows no speed-limit required in many stretches of the highway, but not at all points tho’….
Hansel
post Sep 25 2025, 01:43 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Sep 25 2025, 02:18 AM)
As an accumulator I want market to drop. So what I am already holding stocks and so what if my current value drop?

I buying more man. The more it drops the more I keep buying. Been there done that.

Many of my stocks are build by BTFD. So I already have a huge margin of safety build in by BTFD. When you buy cheap you have a margin of safety. If you buy when it's expensive less margin of safety.

Since I am always a buyer, I love it when the market give me some decent discounts. If my portfolio drops 30% by all means bring it on. I am buying. Imagine DBS drop by 30%? I am scooping up more.

I don't sell unless fundamentals change or unless accidently assign during my options.

Why scared when
1. You are not selling anything.
2. You do need to sell in a down market to generate income to live off
3. You always have money coming in on a weekly basis regardless of market condition
4. You always want to be buying

At least that is me.
*
I admire ur persistence in arguing ur pts…. day-and-night ur’e in this chat. 😂👍…. U shld consider a career in politics.
Anyway…. This is not the first time I said this. The last time I commented you like this, you ‘dissappeared’ for a few days…😂
Wedchar2912
post Sep 25 2025, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Sep 25 2025, 01:14 PM)
Actually no need balls of steel., Just need to be ignorant of fear. Like me in 1989.
When Tiananmen happened, HKSE crash more than 25% resulting in HSBC shares crashing to HKD2.50 p share.
The fool that i was, my girlfriend was working in HSBC and i knew it was a solid bank.
i ploughed in 20,000 shares costing RM16,000. 
20 years later, it was worth GBP9 per share.  brows.gif  SOLD everything.
Ploughed all the proceeds into Gold.  biggrin.gif
*
hahaha... fearless! lack of fear... or ignorance... same same but diff... rclxms.gif

dang... u have like 10 kg? can melt them and make a dumb-bell... paint it black and use it to flex muscle... hehe flex.gif

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Sep 25 2025, 01:54 PM
prophetjul
post Sep 25 2025, 02:16 PM

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QUOTE(Wedchar2912 @ Sep 25 2025, 01:47 PM)
hahaha... fearless! lack of fear... or ignorance... same same but diff...  rclxms.gif

dang... u have like 10 kg? can melt them and make a dumb-bell... paint it black and use it to flex muscle... hehe flex.gif
*
Or use it as a door stop? hmm.gif
Ramjade
post Sep 25 2025, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Sep 25 2025, 12:13 AM)
i know bro, but that statement market crash make my wealth grow is inherently untenable

some may wonder how negative numbers add to your wealth....
when you are actually
counting tomorrow's rebounds as today's riches
taking shrinking assets today as tomorrow's bragging rights?
ie putting the cart before the horse..as if you can see the future
for people like you holding stocks not selling
not the buy sell buy sell type

i think you have overstated your immunity 
like a  bullet proof vehicle

by repeatedly telling
you welcome  market crash anytime
the more it goes down the better
......?? shakehead.gif

huh? this is quite outrageous

like a homeowner cheering for house fire
because water might get cheaper?

you only think of buying cheap sales
but what about the stocks in hand 
are they are not crashed as well?

i dont believe market crash only stocks that you dont have 
and spare yours in hand

dont forget a drop of 50% down 
requires a 100% up  only to break even.
if you are outside the market
yes  you can cheer when market crashed
you  got opportunity to buy in cheap

but if you are already strapped in
you dont wish for a crash
that is like cheering your flight turbulence in midair!
*
If you want your wealth to grow you need to BTFD. I have experience it personally Adam Khoo also said the same thing. After every crash his portfolio grow as market will rebound faster.
ckk125
post Sep 25 2025, 04:14 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Sep 25 2025, 02:48 PM)
If you want your wealth to grow you need to BTFD. I have experience it personally Adam Khoo also said the same thing. After every crash his portfolio grow as market will rebound faster.
*
well said

did same thing in 2008, 2019

some stocks earned 300%, not including dividend yield of 6%

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