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 IT salary downtrend, Thai surpass us

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Bonchi
post Oct 7 2021, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(kidmad @ Oct 7 2021, 11:19 AM)
next time study betul betul, few of these companies are moving operation to singapore not indea. please explain.

SG is now in a condition where they do not have enough manpower to supply the IT sector. u tau ker tidak?
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Singkie actually looking for analyst and not dev in their IT sector. Basically all high level post jer. Else minimum also fullstack capable... deswai their offering pay is so high, not for your average dev. Average dev tasks still outsourced to indea then bring back and do code review.
Bonchi
post Oct 7 2021, 02:56 PM

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QUOTE(kidmad @ Oct 7 2021, 02:44 PM)
nop not really. my cousin sister is working with their Human Resource Ministry supplying alot of devops engineer/full stack/front end, back end basically all sorts of engineer which you can think of they would also need. For now they are still holding back only looking for local and PR talents in the country but because of the amount of demand they have in SG it's just a matter of time until they open up for foreign labours/expat once again.

The few big names which just got setup in SG is asking for thousands of headcount to fill which she is still working on it.

But to your point yes fullstack, DevOps Manager & Engineer it's highly sought after down there in singapore and the pay package is in the region of 8-12k sgd. Those are the ones which are highly sought after.
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Im working as an IT professional here for quite some time already so yeah... altho i progress from DBA to DA to devops to BA and now doing SA.
my company also seeking for those devops and proper software engineer headcounts to fill lolol. As for fullstack.....

Frankly fullstack is over used hype word for a dev.... so far i rarely come across a proper fullstack but many think they are one especially those who use open sourced web frameworks. But when thrown them into a task on setting up a framework and database from scratch especially with a blank unix server then you can see their limitations.

Also technically their local talents are still very green that's why these current positions are mostly filled by foreigners with alot of experience. My current team mostly from china. So if anyone think their skills can make it, they should try now because the window is wide open right now....

can do them a favor to compete with ceca yindia because right now 90% of all applicants my company see is from there. Makes us wonder whole asean region no tech talents meh?

This post has been edited by Bonchi: Oct 7 2021, 03:02 PM
Bonchi
post Oct 7 2021, 03:45 PM

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QUOTE(kidmad @ Oct 7 2021, 03:08 PM)
exactly but the business ppl won't know a nut shit about what IT folks are doing la.. that's why for them to hire Software Engineer.. they just tembak use the word full stack. but yes nearly every single company down there they want full stack, stull stack, full stack but there's also alot of open positions for infra engineers recently.

Oracle, Google they rather have their data center expansion in Singapore instead of malaysia can you imagine? Our operating cost is so much lower and yet even their plan for expansion in 2021 they are doing it in singapore. Now i'm just hoping Microsoft Azure data center won't last minute u-turn go singapore as well. Else you guys will be getting all the jobs while we just work in ah kow, ah bu and ali sdn bhd.

Yet here... we still want to talk about "oh your salary low, cause you stupid why no find a better job and bla bla bla". T-System + IBM already 5k jobs gone. 2 years before that was shell 1.6k employee. HP also shutdown and got taken over by another company and from there onwards it just continue to downsize.

Basically matter of time until all these IT MNC move out from Malaysia.
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Malaysia IT fate is going very stagnant.... deswai im in SG afterall because of the lack of opportunity for my skill set. mostly are just very basic dev task meanwhile the higher level positions are mostly sales and consultancy and already very rigid and no more openings. And with IT being such a young industry, those up there are also very young so no point hoping you will take their position laugh.gif

Then comp anies in malaysia have the habit of not trusting local products and all venture on branded solutions so most local software vendors die one by one especially those that produces their own solution due to lack of investments. Those that are doing well meanwhile are mostly official partnered vendors such as SAP, Oracle etc but its is more of a sales and operations role... not an IT role.

Then we have political instability and also weak infra. Who want to come set up hub here. Especially Imagine after setup then randomly few years later the gov demand 51% bumi equity hahahaha.
Bonchi
post Oct 7 2021, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(bumpo @ Oct 7 2021, 03:58 PM)
IT is a very broad spectrum. from data entry clerk to wire crimping technician to gps device installer to programmer to db admin and more are all under the big IT umbrella.
how certain are you that every single job that is encapsulated is not having any downtrend?  hmm.gif
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It's more like high level openings getting scarce as tech companies moving out while low level openings become widespread sweat.gif

This post has been edited by Bonchi: Oct 7 2021, 04:07 PM
Bonchi
post Oct 7 2021, 04:19 PM

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QUOTE(bumpo @ Oct 7 2021, 04:14 PM)
got new trend emerging recently.. sg company open body shop company in malaysia, pay in myr but matching sgd rates and of course doing work for sg
aka a more eloborate wfh if you will  laugh.gif

imagine instead pay sgd 2k+ and deal with hassle of permit and what not, they pay myr 6k-7k and probably able to pinch far better talent  sweat.gif  sweat.gif
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Very unstable as usually short term contract or project specific. Many of the companies that are doing this are also startups so they can randomly vanish without a notice aka run away with investors money lolol

Besides not just malaysia, they are doing this on the entire SEA region haha.

If youre doing this kinda scope, there's actually alot of opportunity from US and UK as well especially in game dev. A friend of mine making 5k pounds wfh wehhh
Bonchi
post Oct 7 2021, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(bumpo @ Oct 7 2021, 04:23 PM)
you're spot on on stability aspect. pay maybe be cushy for that experience range but no surprise if kena pump and dump  laugh.gif
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*ahem* because i advised a few of my singkie startup friends to try this option using gov grants. Friend is legit wan la but there are many in his batch really pump and dump.... many just hardcoded app front without any backend or storage for presentation purposes to fool investors, then setup some company and have staff to look real, get money then chowwww.

This post has been edited by Bonchi: Oct 7 2021, 04:30 PM
Bonchi
post Oct 7 2021, 05:07 PM

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QUOTE(Quantum Geist @ Oct 7 2021, 04:47 PM)
Meaning just setting up the environment for live/staging/dev deployment? I've worked in a bank where there's a team for just that, and I've worked in more than one small company where I have to do a majority of the legwork to get even the physical server running. Not surprised if there are fullstack devs that just need to worry about the solution and have someone else worry about the infrastructure
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The meaning of fullstack is the capability of handling the infrastructure as well as the solutions. That's why it's a very loose word being thrown around nowadays especially with tools like firebase. The real fullstack guys are very very rare and are also very expensive haha. Mostly are project lead because they can lead the infra side and as well as the application side.
Bonchi
post Oct 7 2021, 09:39 PM

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QUOTE(Quantum Geist @ Oct 7 2021, 05:57 PM)
Got positions like that in bigger companies nowadays? that's wearing a lot of hats.
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Pretty valuable now actually because it's a sign of passion as well. You put these skills in front of them and will stand out easily. Because since IT is so broad, a flexible role that can be allocated into various projects can save alot of manpower considerations as they can rely less on hiring short term contracts. And best of all they can use people with this kind of skills to lead contractors/vendors as they will have good domain knowledge as well as technical skills to do so.

I'll be pretty frank. All these dev tasks required by big companies especially in-house roles are pretty one off. Once a system is rolled out then it wont be looked into again for at least 10 years. Only maintenance and support is required and you wont need a big team for that. That's why it's pretty common for mnc to offer project based contract work for IT especially to dev.

Unless the nature of the business is providing IT solutions like google, facebook, grab etc, there is not really a need for companies like OnG, banking, trading, manufacturing etc to keep a big team of dev.
Bonchi
post Oct 7 2021, 09:47 PM

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QUOTE(fath82 @ Oct 7 2021, 06:03 PM)
In IT you need to be involve in niche technology or specialized on a area to demand high salary. You income is limitless, The only downtrend happening now is junior level position like help desk, server admin etc where it's being outsource to India.
But for fresh grad u don't have to worry there always a job in it compare to other profession, because they starting salary is low

Like other said if you work in iIT for 8-10 years but still low wages, something is wrong, might be you're not skill enough or you stay too long in a cheapskate company
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Have to go overseas lo, high level jobscope like this for growth very rare in malaysia even for MNCs lol. Got one time long ago i considered checking out a "data analyst" job offer in malaysia pay was around RM11k but the job is not really data analytics lol. Just some basic powerbi stuff with excel macros .....if sit in this role sure become dead end and no career progression.

The niche skills you can find in malaysia that pays well are pretty useless outside as well... like cobol sweat.gif which are a time bomb to be made redundant.

This post has been edited by Bonchi: Oct 7 2021, 09:53 PM
Bonchi
post Oct 7 2021, 11:57 PM

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QUOTE(dattebayo @ Oct 7 2021, 11:13 PM)
SG already have every public cloud datacenter you can think of
One thing that hinder those big guys from operating in Malaysia is the lack of power redundancy hence can't build Tier 4 datacenter here
so far only CCP cloud like Alicloud and Huawei cloud have datacenter presence here
but i heard Alicloud datacenter in Malaysia is just a co-loc instead of wholy owned by Alibaba

as the saying goes, janji oren kito

give them all the power to do everything yet still not doing things good, then inciting hasad dengki towards other races

i am not racist against general Malays, i am discriminating to those Malay politicians
come to think of it dinasour companies like HP DXC IBM they are considered sunset in their own league, many old timers had their sweet time in their OnPrem VDI private cloud waterfall whatevernot, most of them are illiterate in cloud, IAC, DevOps, Agile, reskilling them would be a nightmare. But many of these are approaching 50, treat it as early retirement loh, do grab, foodpanda, home kitchen etc
well those Sinkies just treat the offshore Malaysian devs as their bitches seriously
basically full stack in other more modern and catchy term for that is "solution architect" but companies won't use it coz the word architect automatically means "more expensive"
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if im not mistaken, SG actually have no tier 4 datacenter as well because of the proximities to all the civilian and military airports on the island haha. But their infrastructure and political stability made up for it.

yeap basically solution architects, system architects and system analysts fall into this scope haha. Ayam actually working as one laugh.gif and basically this role kinda require one to know about a little bit for almost everything so you can propose the best solution and then lead a team, find outsourced vendors and sometimes even go solo to solve the business problem from scratch.... and by solutions, it can be anything lol so it's really endless self study but it's pretty fun if youre passionate about tech.

the term "full stack" become downgraded alot actually, thanks to all the PaaS (platform as a solution) providers that dev now no longer need to understand the infra. all they need is subscribe to one such as AWS ECS, get their command line interface, setup AWS dynamoDB, unpack all the dependencies from there, setup git and Wala!! To be fair all these are the minimum requirement nowadays for a dev... so basically "fullstack" now becomes a minimum requirement.
young dev nowadays dont even need to crack head on setting up the application servers, database servers, network, load balancers and dont even need to set maintenance jobs like image backup of redundancy mirroring lol the PaaS gawtim everything already. So many dev I come across nowadays dont even know how to use powershell or console.

This post has been edited by Bonchi: Oct 8 2021, 12:07 AM
Bonchi
post Oct 8 2021, 12:03 AM

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QUOTE(kidmad @ Oct 7 2021, 11:45 PM)
sad.gif that's why personally as an IT professional I'm really worried.. if my company really decided to move to Vietnam I'll take the chance man.
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vietnam nice place... got sent there to setup an ERP solution for a company branch there at saigon... food and beer really hnghhh. Sadly never got to go Hanoi... I heard their winter is like HK/TW... damn nice.

 

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