Hello all.

I'm a late bloomer, having completed my Master's in my late 40s. Admittedly, by this time I have already made Director in my career so the entire endeavor was purely for the pursuit of self-satisfaction (my dad & wife have PhDs, mom & younger brother both have Master's degrees). In my line of work, a graduate degree means jack shit... especially at my level. It isn't going to make me Executive Director, not by a long shot.

I found the entire experience to be fun, despite the hard work, because after over 2 decades in advertising, USM's Integrated Marketing Communication actually made sense and I had my professional experience to add to the lectures. Basically grad school was easier and more enjoyable than my undergrad, coz in the 90s I was just a gormless git fresh out of high school with zero understanding of anything.

The most rewarding part was the thesis as it was inspired by an experimental olfactory communication exercise that we did for a client overseas some years ago. My supervisor told me after Raya Haji I should consider working towards getting it published, but to cut a long story short there's a possibility of continuing the work at the doctorate level. I found the work exciting and revealing as it added to my work-related experience on the same topic.

Quitting my job at my age to pursue postgraduate studies that will do me no favors in my career is a no-no (mortgage to pay, retirement plans & my kids themselves will enter uni in 2 years' time). So it has to be part-time. I understand it will stretch for 6 years and there's a saying that a part-time PhD is a slippery slope to no PhD at all coz the attrition rate among part-timers is very high.

Nobody I know has ever attempted a PhD part-time.

Has anyone here attempted such a thing? Is doing PhD part-time for self-satisfaction nothing more than a pie-in-the-sky bullshit that should be buried in the deepest orifice of my mind?

Hi there,

I may be able to contribute a bit of my experience on my PhD journey. I recently dropped out of my PhD after around 40% of work done.
I started my full time PhD programme while I have my full time job at the same time. Being a full time PhD candidate means I will have to follow the schedule of full-time programme which will need me to follow the milestones of a full time candidate and complete my research within 3-5 years.

When I first started, I was very motivated in conducting my research and writing papers for publication. My purpose of getting a PhD is mainly self-satisfaction. However, as time goes on, this commitment had become a burden to me as I will need to commit 4-5 hours on research, reading and writing every day after work. (I did the same thing during my Master's degree, I was working a full-time job and doing my Master's degree at the same time) At the end, it is really exhausting to me and I decided to quit.

I work in IT software development industry, a PhD doesn't really weigh much in my industry. If your industry doesn't really value PhD, you may want to think carefully. I am more leaning toward professional certificates in my industry. Those are definitely more valuable than a PhD and with significantly lesser commitment compared to a PhD.
I gotta say, I did not regret my decision (to drop out of my PhD), I am a lot happier than I was.
As in, not feeling guilty for spending too much time at eating dinner, not feeling guilty when spending more time with friends and family, not feeling guilty when spending more time to relax myself.. That's because a second I waste would be a second I lost in researching, reading and writing. I was too dedicated and eventually lost my balance there.

Your mileage may vary. If you have time for this commitment, and it is really one of your life goals, no harm trying. It is a journey of identifying what we don't know and how do we discover answers for it.

All the best.

Hi. Although I have never attempted a part-time PhD, I can share my experience when I was a full-time PhD student. I began my studies because I was fascinated by technologies and research, particularly artificial intelligence. Also, I wanted a PhD for personal satisfaction.

Before embarking on the journey, I was incredibly naive and completely misunderstood what a PhD journey entailed (I never take a Master, no experience in research). I assumed I needed to be an expert in coding and software usage. I also imagined myself as a researcher who would make significant contributions, sit in the lab, do codings, and invent new things.

When I began my PhD, I realized I was mistaken and that research is entirely about publication. It's more about academic fields than programming abilities. No matter how well I performed in my experiments, I will never perform well if I cannot skillfully write the papers and thesis. At the time, it made me question whether I was on the right track, as it appears as though paperwork takes precedence over technical work (I preferred technical work).

Eventually, I was able to publish my works. It truly taught me a great deal and altered my perspective on pursuing a PhD. It teaches me the value of hard work, not just smart work. After all, I am unable to share the practical approach to obtaining a part-time PhD while working. What is etched in my mind is how I came to understand what a PhD truly is. Similar to someone admired those who are rich, but once they become rich, they realized it's not as what they have fantasized about. I'm sure someone can provide you with a more detailed explanation of the point of view you're seeking.

Wish you all the best and good luck.

This post has been edited by hellothere131495: Jul 10 2021, 03:49 PM

I enrolled in a full time phd program but did work few days a week. Here is what I found:

Unless you just wanna get a phd cert for show from a mediocre university, phd study is never about what has been done, but what has not been done. You are expected to explore new territories in knowledge (knowledge gap). You need immense motivation to complete it. Hence unless they are financial commitments (sponsor, scholarship etc.) or academic commitment (career in academia), most phd students stop half way or change to another master or similar program.

Since you have not enrolled into 1, perhaps explore your field a little. See what is happening academically. Set up a reachable expectation and goal for your phd thesis.

Then talk to someone in the field, especially if your area of research is not widely explored. Prepare a simple proposal and set up meeting with them. It took me around 1.5 years to get a good supervision team but my area is very new and not many people work on it.

Next, it is about planning and execution. You need to set up a workable schedule. Working smart is the key. If you work smart and know what you are doing, it should not take more than 20 hours a week of productive work to complete a phd in less than 5 years, even for a part time student.

Publication plays a major role in completing your phd. Work with your supervision team. They should be able to assist you. Publication is needed to verify your work is original, proper and contribute (at least somewhat) to the knowledge. It is quite difficult especially if you want to publish in ISI journals but most universities also accept SCOPUS. SCOPUS publication is not really that difficult. If you plan well, 2-3 publications can be achieved in 1 year.

Of course there are university commitments such as compulsory courses, defense of proposal, oral exams etc, and these can take more time than phd thesis. Discuss with the university postgrad advisor and see if university can exempt you from doing all of these. I managed to skip all of those (except for proposal defense ofc). You can apply for these exemptions once you enroll to avoid problems later on.

Other than that, it is all about you. How much you love your area of study, how much motivation do you have to complete the course. As mentioned above, set your expectation high. You are not expected to be very good with current level of knowledge in your area; you are expected to be able to explore new knowledge. Hence experience does not help at all. Prepare to "swim in deeper water".

Hope this helps. Good luck. Cheers.

That's one of my concerns.

I'm in advertising, which is an industry for ex-bartenders, washed-up lawyers and journalism hacks who could no longer hack it at their line of work. Here, a PhD is sometimes a liability not an asset and some clients even view it with contempt as it challenges their authority (some client-side senior brand/marketing directors view this area as their own personal medieval fiefdom, where they micromanage and actively snuff out any form of dissent in the ranks).

Never mind a postgraduate degree, even a graduate degree isn't really appreciated. So by this time I'm already accustomed to the thought of furthering my education out of my own personal interest.

It doesn't serve my long-term goal either, because once I hit 55 I'm going to end my pressure-cooker deadline-driven career before it ends me. At the most, it might open up the possibility of teaching but my wife and I are already planning to get the hell out of town and go into agriculture post retirement.

The smart move right now is to look into training or certificate courses related to agriculture, not a PhD... but that would be a shame because my grad thesis really revealed a substantial gap in the literature pertaining to my area of research.

I'm going to let it sink in for the next few months, then see how lah.

Thanks for your input.

Doctorate candidates like you inspire me. Part of the reason why I even entertained the lofty idea of extending my graduate research into postgraduate.

I spent 3 semesters fumbling with my thesis. I knew what I wanted to study as it was a phenomenon I had encountered in my day job before. But at that point, I learned the hard way the difference between academia and my professional work. In my professional work, you identify the problem, learn more about the background and find creative ways to solve it... all in a matter of weeks. That does not fly in academia, where you have to spend months just rationalizing like hell why the problem is even worth giving a shit about in the first place. Solving a marketing and branding problem isn't something that scholars care about -- they only care about adding to the existing body of knowledge. To do that you have to be a hell lot more rigorous in the work, which deadline-driven advertising professionals cannot afford to do in their industry as we simply do not have the luxury of having 2 semesters just to figure shit out based on all the existing scholarly work done in the area.

So after that bout of crazy town, I think I have some idea what my PhD journey would entail. And I could finally relate to what my lecturer once told me back during my undergrad years in the early 90s:

Undergraduate = you learn to read & write
Graduate = you read, write & learn how to think
Postgraduate = you read, write & think to create new knowledge

BTW... how did you skip grad school and go straight to postgrad?

Amazing. Hopefully, you will be able to expand on your Master's research to a PhD. That will be interesting because the progress does not begin at zero.

I agree that academia is distinct from the industry. People in academia will be working hard to publish more papers to advance their careers. Everyone is aiming for top journals and wants to get their work published, so competition is fierce. They don't care if their research is useful (to industry and society) or not. All they want is to publish another paper that requires novelty, which can be accomplished through creativity and some blowing skill after finishing the experiment. In the end, I'm getting used to it, and probably that's how the academic world works.

Well, that sounds very true.

Need to get good result in degree first. Then, I had an interview, and I needed to demonstrate that I am capable of conducting research. This is accomplished by presenting them with a convincing and very detailed research proposal. During the interview, I must persuade them that I know what I'm doing, have a clear vision of the novelty, and have preliminary results (not just coming with empty hands).

I showed all that remains is to compare the results to those of other papers to highlight the improvements made, and I already have a novelty inside my hand. Well, that convinced them, and I miraculously accepted for the PhD program. But then, I realized what I had shown them during the interview was bullshit, and I need to rethink my novelty and read more papers. So since then, I've been working on papers and more papers and tons of theories, with coding being only a minor part of my studies (which I never expect to do so).

Ahhh... I think I hv heard about this at one point & met one young girl in the student lounge doing the same thing. At USM they call it 'fast-tracked PhD', I think you hv to score something like 3.8 CGPA when you finish your undergrad.

I totally sucked back then during my undergrad. It was difficult as I could not relate the stuff I learned to anything, coz I was too young and naive.

I did my grad school after like 20 years of working (you tend to do stupid things when midlife crisis hits in your 40s), and it was surprisingly fun and enjoyable. A lot of hard work reading, digesting, doing the assignments + papers during coursework and of course the thesis.... but none of it was rocket science at all since I had been neck-deep in that stuff for 20 years already.

And I really enjoyed having classmates once again after 20 years... the only difference is now I couldn't date them anymore.

Good luck with your PhD.

In social science research (including communication), you really need the time to sit down, read, think, reflect, and write.

Social science research is all about justifications.

That's why many people advise others to do it full time rather than to do it part-time.

Part-time is doable but it will just drag your time.

In full-time PhD, you can spend your entire day reading, thinking, reflecting, and writing. Sometimes you could just spend an entire day just to write one single impactful sentence just to justify a point.

I tried part-time before and I decided to switch to full time. That's the best decision ever.

And if your career field doesn't appreciate a PhD qualification, then there's no point in doing it.

PhD is a qualification to train one to be an independent researcher.

Well, for those who want to do it for self-satisfaction, I believe you will change your opinion in a few months time. It will give you depression instead.

Well it is not that gloom and doom. Yes phd study is difficult but not to the point of depression provided we have the patient and interest on the topic. I did my phd while working (even though I enrolled for a full time program) and managed to grad in 4 years.

I rarely (if any) spent more than 20 hours a week during year 2-4 and spent less than 10 hours a week in my year 1. It is all about working smart. The key is to familiar with the research area once you got there, it should not be too difficult to find research gaps. I do agree with the point of "Sometimes you could just spend an entire day just to write one single impactful sentence just to justify a point." I spent about a month to figure out and justify a simple point in methodology and still got bombed hard during viva.

I still think there are benefits to phd other than for career advancement. I find that phd study helps regarding problem solving and cognitive ability. At least for me, phd study changed my way of thinking and handling decision making.

My first degree, full-time, was an effort as I didn't really enjoyed it. However, it was a means to an end, which was to enter a profession, which surprisingly, I managed to do. During the early stages of my working career, I started to look as studying something not just as a means to an end, but for my knowledge and self-satisfaction.

I read for my first Masters on a part-time basis, and was quite happy with it. Thereafter, I went on to read for a Phd on a part-time basis at University Malaya. I still remember that to my surprise, my Dean, Supervisor and even the librarian who assisted with my Phd research, actually queried me as to why I did not read for my Phd on a full-time basis overseas. As my degree and masters were obtained in the UK, they said that it made better sense to read for it in the UK as the research facilities and supervisors in the UK were far better than what I could get in Malaysia, especially at Malaya University.

I told them that as I just started my own business, I was loathed to take time off to go back to the UK to read for a Phd on a full-time basis. By reading for it on a part-time basis, I could both run my business as well as scratch my intellectual itch. Unfortunately, due to my business, I was unable to do the research that I wanted to. After about a year or so, I dropped my Phd.

If you want to read for your Phd on a part-time basis, be sure that you have sufficient time every day to concentrate for a few hours on your research. If not, it is only too easy to slip and fall behind in your research. After completing a second Masters in another field, I can say that at the Masters level, it is easier. At the Phd level, it is a different kettle of fish altogether. So be prepared for that.

However, in many ways, reading for a Phd now is probably much easier than it was when I did it. I find that Phds now have compulsory classes to learn about research, statistics and other topics which helps you to prepare and research a topic. In those days, it was still the old-fashioned method, whereby you were expected to do everything yourself. There were no mandatory classes as described, and you only saw your supervisor once every few months or when you wanted to for advice. You were expected to learn and do everything yourself. The university only helped in providing research facilities and access to a supervisor who monitored your research and whom you could query for information and guidance.

I hope that my experience helps. I did regret dropping my Phd all those years ago. I am considering reading for a Phd again on a part-time basis in a year or so. I find that I have more time now, which is the main consideration.

Some updates:

Since October last year, I've been exploring my options while sending my daughter off to start her own journey in uni.

I spoke with my supervisor in USM as we started the work to get my thesis published, I told her since now I'm in senior management involved at the strategic level in the company I work for I feel the need to go back and do my MBA after completing my Master's Degree in Communication. She pointed out that since I already have a graduate degree, why not skip MBA and grow a pair of testicles to push straight to Doctorate which, in this case, is the DBA.

That really piqued my interest.

After doing my own digging and talking to several representatives of various DBA programmes including the head of USM's Graduate School of Business, I learned that while a PhD would focus more on the theoretical a DBA focuses instead on the practical applications of knowledge in business. Both are terminal degrees, both are doctorate level but the focus is different. A DBA programme still involves coursework and seminars (which is what I want from an MBA) in addition to a doctorate dissertation. Because of the focus on practical business applications, most DBA students are working professionals of my age and level which means the majority of them are part timers. As such DBA programmes tend to be structured to cater to part time candidacy, which addresses the biggest concern I discussed in this thread. Bloody hell, I thought... that's perfect!

Cost is the next concern because I know the going rate for DBA programmes is around RM45k, and I will need to cough it up out of my own pocket. I chanced upon UNITAR's new DBA programme that racks up to only RM29k because it is currently partially accredited until the first cohort of DBA students complete the programme in the next 1-2 years. While full campus facilities are available, the coursework is conducted online 100% and they have an impressive online back-end system to support this. The coursework covers areas I'm excited to learn about and their faculty is bolstered by a raft of adjunct professors from multiple industries and institutions whom I can pick as my supervisor.

So I signed up. And so now I'm back to school as a part-time doctoral student.

Thanks for sharing and all the best in your journey.

My DBA journey so far:

In a nutshell, FUN...!!!

It's all coursework for my first 2 years, before my doctoral dissertation kicks in. So far, 2 semesters in, it has been immensely enjoyable because I'm getting exactly what I've been wanting - the knowledge I need in management now that I am an Executive Director.

Due to work pressure, I'm taking the recommended path as a DBA part timer at UNITAR. First sem, Entrepreneurship & Social Innovation that gave me a glimpse of what it takes to run your own business venture, the pitfalls, the School of Hard Knocks that most entrepreneurs go thru, the global trend towards ESG and the Lean Startup Method.

This sem, Strategic Planning & Performance Evaluation, covering the strategic planning process, the tools + models and how to apply them to conduct a strategic biz audit.

Both are directly relevant to me at my career stage where I need to help steer the agency I work for and, as such, the assignments aren't difficult at all. You just have to manage your time and find a way to put in the hours. Sometimes work deadlines occupy my time and I find myself lagging a bit, so I gotta keep reminding myself to stay disciplined.

The difference between DBA and my Master's is that my classmates are mostly roughly my age (35-50) mid to senior level professionals. None of them are spring chicken anymore, all of them with serious expertise and experience in their respective fields - finance, engineering, education etc. The lecturers and professors have a keen interest in hearing our 2 cents' worth when discussing a topic, because that's where our hands-on real-world work experience kicks in. For me, I find it fascinating to hear from my classmates how different companies adopt different approaches in adopting what are essentially the same models. That's definitely good to know when you're in management, you get to compare notes and develop the idea that there's more than 1 way to skin the cat.

The only downside is that, since the classes are online, I have only met 1 in real life for an assignment that required us to conduct an in-depth interview with a social entrepreneur. He had to abandon his PhD a few years back, now that he runs his own consultancy setup he's back in school with a vengeance.

DBA's focus on real-world business application is apparent - while I was buried eyeball deep in academic literature in grad school, now it's mostly case studies and critical discourse of current business issues.

Next semester, Strategic Operations Management. And I'll have to begin the groundwork for my dissertation proposal to get a head start.

Appreciate this as someone looking into pursuing a DBA/PhD though I doubt I will be able to pull it of part-time.

It has been almost 1.5 years since I signed up as a part-time, postgraduate student, so now I'm approaching the tail end of my coursework. It's Doctoral Seminar in Business this sem and Advanced Research Methodology next sem before I need to finalize my doctoral dissertation proposal for defence. My CGPA for my coursework stands at 3.56.

Some of my classmates have the balls to do 2 subjects per semester, speeding up their journey. Like one of them, who is a manager in the healthcare industry, who has ample time during office hours to do his readings and assignments. Me, I don't dare given the crazy amount of work I need to kaotim now that I'm at the Executive Creative Director level. I have warned my CEO that when the time comes, I will start taking leave to prepare for my proposal defence. I will need to prepare my ACD and my dept to be able to run with minimal hiccups in my absence, but this will be a bloody challenge because the agency is totally dependent on me for certain day-to-day jobs.

Based on the background reading I have done so far, I pretty much know the area of research that I want to do. Surprisingly, my CEO took an interest in my published research at the Master's level so I shared with him my proposed dissertation topic since it is relevant to what the agency will face in the coming years. This is based on my experience sitting in the agency's strategic meetings and workshops where we explored the future landscape of the advertising industry. He gave his approval and blessing - this is important to me as, being a part-time student and a full-time employee, I need to manage his expectations and help him realize my proposed research may hold strategic value to the agency's business in the long run.

The preliminary problem statement and rough outline have been done, and have received a thumbs-up by Dr Shaharuddin. My methodology will have to be qualitative, which presents several new challenges at this level even though I already have experience in this area when writing and publishing my Master's thesis and at work. I will tackle this further when I start Advanced Research Methodology next sem. For now, I have to start the herculean task of attempting the rough draft of the first chapter of my dissertation ahead of time, knowing that it will probably need a shit ton of revisions in the months ahead, especially if it gets ripped to shreds during the proposal defence. My job now is to minimize that as much as I can first time out.

So here we go once again...

As strange as it may seem, I really enjoy doing my postgrad now at 50 years of age. It's such an eye-opener, due to the practical nature of the DBA programme as everything I learned during my coursework is relatable to what I do at work at the senior level and my experiences at work have helped me in my critical analyses, papers and coursework in general. My ultimate goal is to retain this symbiotic relationship between work and academia in my doctoral dissertation. To me, that's the whole point of going beyond the undergraduate level in the first place.

My father and wife who had successfully completed their PhDs yonks ago had warned me of the depression that postgraduate students suffer during their journey. I'm happy to say I suffered none of it so far, despite the crazy amount of work I needed to do. Let's see if this holds up when I finally begin the lonely journey of dissertation writing. I'm told this is where much of the head-banging happens.

I have not started the process of selecting my supervisor just yet. To be honest, I have no fucking idea at the moment as I'm not familiar with the raft of adjunct professors that UNITAR has for this purpose. I suppose I'll worry about that once I have moved further along in my proposal.

Try DBA instead

How is UNITAR DBA?