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 Kena con during interview, how to escape?, Jumped ship but wrong move

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TSmanpower4x4
post Jun 10 2021, 04:11 PM, updated 3y ago

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Ok tldr.

A new company offered me 30% more salary than previous job.
Quite reputable from my peers and seems like a good role with advancement from previous senior exec to now, Asst manager.

However, the company kinda 'indirectly conned' me into the job.

1.During the interview, they mentioned that since the mco 3.0, they did not cut any salary and paying full. The join date was put as 14th June 2021. I got the offer letter on 15th May 2021 and signed back to them the same date. However, today the HR sent me an email saying that they forgot to ask me to sign an agreement on paycut. I asked him why and he said that a Managerial role above has to go through this cut and it was 30%. In return, the official work hours is changed from 9am to 6pm to 10am to 4pm daily. I wasn't happy about it and pressured that this was not mentioned in the interview and I am just an AM not the real manager. The HR guy said it's the procedure and not sure why his ppl did not mention to me.

2. Apparently from my pursuit in no.1, I found out that the company has been doing a minor restructuring where they were removing positions of Asst Managers from the hierarchy. The HR guy told me that anybody holding AM positions or offered one will get a redesignation letter as a Manager with no salary adjustment and follow everything that is bound on Managers. (It was clearly mentioned to me in the interview that managers are managerial level, AMs are not). The restructuring happened this week and I am bound to it but the plan to restructure was there long even before my interview happened.

In this case, my current company is hoping I can stay on but I signed over the other side and the hr warned me strictly over trying to ffk them.

What should I do?
TSmanpower4x4
post Jun 10 2021, 04:21 PM

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QUOTE(sunami @ Jun 10 2021, 04:17 PM)
the offer letter din state the position they offered to you?
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Got... It was AM.... But the hr said they just initiated the restructuring after giving me the offer. Since I signed de, they said they not giving me a new offer letter but when I go in, a letter of redesignation without needing me to sign anything.
TSmanpower4x4
post Jun 10 2021, 04:25 PM

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QUOTE(timeonce @ Jun 10 2021, 04:16 PM)
Can copy and paste ur terms of termination for new company ?? As this will have more info

Normally if u havent start working can ffk. U can even sue them to court say coercion of signing pay cut after signing offer letter. as labour court side with employee more
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"Notice of termination in employment is 2 months from the date of resignation acceptance. The notice can be waived with payment in lieu upon management discretion."

But this was old one in offer letter. HR guy said the redesignation letter has a different term for Manager.

QUOTE(Ya Rerd @ Jun 10 2021, 04:19 PM)
There is very little to no legal actions that the new company can take on your refusal to honour your offer letter. If they wish to challenge this in the industrial courts then by all means ask them to proceed because in most if not all cases like this, the advantage lies with the employees. For your situation, it was clear that the internal restructuring was not made transparent to you and this gives you the upper hand if this goes a bit sideways. It's just plain wrong to offer someone a 30% bump and then take it away with the reason there was a restructure BEFORE you even joined the company. This would even make the offer void and null to begin with!

If I were you, I would reconcile with your current company and stay put till the next opportunity comes. I would be sweating burning the bridge with this new company because clearly their policies are not to be desired.
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Well I believe what the HR said was:
1. Restructuring plan was in mind but not executed yet during my interview, so it wasn't within their legal terms to mention it.

2. After offering me the position, the restructuring happened so it will affect any current and joining staffs.

I don't know if this is a legal point for them to fight with me later on.
TSmanpower4x4
post Jun 10 2021, 05:24 PM

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QUOTE(ragk @ Jun 10 2021, 05:12 PM)
Did the offer letter u signed mentioned the working hour and salary? If yes and they insist u to work for them, then they should pay u based on the letter, because that's the term of contract that both of u agreed and sign for.
Else that shall be no hassle to get away from them.
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Yes I don't really get this HR or employment law thing where the HR said "Yes, but we also have a clause of 'these terms may change due to management discretion' so I am in no position to argue the guy said".

Also I am suddenly a Manager getting AM salary. I don't want it.


TSmanpower4x4
post Jun 10 2021, 05:26 PM

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QUOTE(malleus @ Jun 10 2021, 05:01 PM)
if you refuse to sign the second letter, then you still have the option of having a conversation with the HR, where you will need to stand your ground and say that you refuse to sign the letter as it was not communicated to you before, then see how it goes from there. if you're lucky they will just tell you that if you don't sign, then they cannot hire you.
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This i was arguing with him for so long. He said that rejecting signing does not only mean not hiring since my payroll and email all setup. It will be a breach of employment contract (not sure if it's true) and the company may want to file claims on me for the costs incurred in my hiring.

QUOTE(timeonce @ Jun 10 2021, 05:26 PM)
"Notice of termination in employment is 2 months from the date of resignation acceptance. The notice can be waived with payment in lieu upon management discretion."

how about the notice period during the probabation clause.

Dont sign ur second letter for reduction of salary no matter what. And mention u want to reject politely if this is not what u sign up for. Haven't start but ask u to cut salary. Very nonsense company
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Notice during probation is 1 month from date of acceptance of resignation.

Err how to reject politely?
TSmanpower4x4
post Jun 10 2021, 07:47 PM

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QUOTE(mini orchard @ Jun 10 2021, 06:35 PM)
Could it be a strategy by your new co to rescind the contract. I will think so.

It could be a mistake in the first place to offer you the post and now need a good reason not to welcome you on board.

The reason of a pay cut is a good move as everyone knows a normal person will NEVER accept that term.

If you have no more intention to join them, ask the hr and interviewer straight to the face.

Even if the hr retract the letter, I dont think you feel comfortable joining them. The co can always reintro the policy few months later and you are caught again.

Head or Tail, you will lose. Stay put at current place.
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Not too sure on that but the company is really looking for people.

TSmanpower4x4
post Jun 12 2021, 09:31 AM

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QUOTE(UserU @ Jun 11 2021, 07:58 PM)
Strange, a new offer letter should nullify the old one.
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Company mentioned this is not a case of new offer letter... Rather, it's a case of letter of redesignation only.
TSmanpower4x4
post Jun 12 2021, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(malleus @ Jun 12 2021, 11:09 AM)
well, it does look like what you can try to do is to refuse to sign the letter agreeing to the pay cut. and tell them so, then see how they respond to it.

if they try to tell you that in this case, you just won't get paid until you sign, then remind them that it's illegal to do so. and that legally they can only do a pay cut on you should you agree to it, and you do not agree.
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Oh that's good to hear le... Didn't know must consent only they cut. What can they do if I don't agree? Well I wish they fire me.
TSmanpower4x4
post Jun 14 2021, 12:56 AM

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QUOTE(ZZMsia @ Jun 12 2021, 02:25 PM)
Seriously,
after all this advice, why are you even considering to join that Company?
may I know?
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Well not that I want to join, the hr is using the offer letter I signed against me. He kinda gangster on me saying I should know what I have signed and what powers they hold....

And yes, the HR guy has written me a wonderful email:

Dear Mr. XXX,

As per our Tele-conversation, I have gone through the whole process with the hiring manager and the department director. It seems that the department director is not allowing such irresponsible act and would therefore require you to reimburse all hiring costs related to this position up to 12th June 2021. The vacancy is now deemed urgent as the resigning person is leaving on 18th June 2021. It is a formality that our team allows you to sign a consent form on the salary adjustment and redesignation to Managerial level. We have obtained legal approval from related government authorities on the salary adjustment as this was declared as a restructuring for survival. As such, the amount that will be claimed against your good self will be a total of 1 months salary in lieu without any deductions or adjustments. Should you continue to refrain signing the redesignation letter, a legal notice from our lawyer will be issued to you.

Regards,
Mr YYY
ZZZ Company Sdn Bhd
TSmanpower4x4
post Jun 14 2021, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(malleus @ Jun 14 2021, 07:45 AM)
1) if they can still hire, then they have not exhausted all cost cutting measures yet
2) if it's cost cutting for survival, then there's no need for them to force you to sign the letter

hence because of that they're likely to be lying about the legal approval from the related government authorities. try requesting to see the approval that they have received, saying that you wish to validate with the same authorities they have gotten such approvals from
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They sent me a snippet this morning after I refused to believe it. Really got Miti stamp, sign and that relevant industry approval on cost reduction imposed to staff salaries. I dunno how they got it but got.
TSmanpower4x4
post Jun 14 2021, 10:58 PM

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QUOTE(klch87 @ Jun 14 2021, 07:31 PM)
Is the hiring cost and redesignation letter in event of pulling out from employment stated in the offer letter? If yes, then it is legally possible they will issue a legal notice to you.
This is possible if your salary is high.
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They said it's not in the offer letter but in the handbook...
TSmanpower4x4
post Jun 14 2021, 10:59 PM

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QUOTE(ZZMsia @ Jun 14 2021, 08:15 PM)
Agreeing with his point. please walk away asap
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I already am. My current company is ok to let me stay on one condition, the new place doesn't come kacau the current company.
TSmanpower4x4
post Jun 15 2021, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(malleus @ Jun 14 2021, 11:25 PM)
So, the approval from MITI that they claim to have gotten will be subject to them demonstrating that it's crucial for survival, which also includes the condition that they must have demonstrated that all other costing measures has already failed.

From what you mentioned, they are still actively hiring right? Mention this to them, on what will MITI think of them and their approval to do salary cuts if MITI knows they're still actively hiring.

And like what others advised as well, check also with the labour department, as well as the Ministry of Human Resources too. Don't hesitate to say that you're also taking the initiative to do these checks on them with the various authorities as well.
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They were good advice. I did it today. Labour department said I am bound to pay back the hiring costs as I didn't notice there was a clause in my offer letter saying "All terms of employment are within the employment handbook to be presented on date of commencement. By agreeing to the offer, such agreement also cover terms within the handbook". I was thinking why they were so steady, now I know.
TSmanpower4x4
post Jun 16 2021, 01:27 AM

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QUOTE(malleus @ Jun 15 2021, 04:41 PM)
ah well. this pretty much sucks then, as it does look like the only way out is for you to pay off that one month, and just take this financial hit for now. But the other thing that you can check on is, is there a ceiling amount that they can claim against you, to see if you can get the payback amount to be reduced or not.

How about MITI? do they still qualify to do cost cutting to survive if they can still hire ppl?
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I asked a friend who has connections with Miti and the govt. He said a lot of companies applied for legit cost cutting despite them not in dire situation and were all approved. So miti knows what's going on apparently.
TSmanpower4x4
post Jun 19 2021, 03:56 PM

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QUOTE(chickenshit36 @ Jun 19 2021, 01:47 PM)
Don’t care.
Just keep quiet let them waste few hundred ringgit to send lawyer letter.
If really get, then go consult industrial relations for free advise.
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Well you need to understand the full story.

My current bosses are planning to keep me after I told them my shytty story.

However the condition is by 1st July 2021 I need to confirm to them that no more strings attached with the new company by 1st July 2021.

If I drag like this, I won't get my current company's counter.
TSmanpower4x4
post Jun 26 2021, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(danieln @ Jun 23 2021, 01:01 PM)
Can u share with us these info

1. When was the MITI letter issued? Before of after you sugned your offer? If after, how long after?

2. What is the salary you are offered?

They may think they have the upper hand on the terms on the letter but if the terms if unfair, then it could be thrown out in court as well. Eg they can't ask u to pay 10x the salary for compensation.

Also if they want to claim 1 month from u, your lawyer can also ask them to prove where the costing come from. Don't tell me creating an email account cost them so much which is nonsense.

Also if they are really a reputable company i don't think they would want to spend money and get their reputation tarnished in court. Coz the while thing would be exposed and even they win their name will be long lasting shit to the public

Most important is u stand firm, just tell them u are not agreeable on their 2nd letter for salary cut and position change. They may have letter from MITI but then since your signature is required means they can't do shit as long as u don't sign it. Instead tell them you don't agree on the salary cut and give u a confirmation if u appear to work on the 1st day, what is your salary going to be. If they confirm will pay u less without u signing then just tell them  to fxxx off
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They showed to me that the letter was issued after I was offered but before my joining date.

For 2, they are confident because they showed me the costs is actually more than 1 month salary but they rounded down to 1 month. They were costs of extending a project until I come in to finalize as the previous guy left in May 2021 before the project finishes in June 2021. It seems they wanted me to just finalize the project and handover in July 2021

 

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