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 Kena con during interview, how to escape?, Jumped ship but wrong move

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malleus
post Jun 10 2021, 05:01 PM

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if you refuse to sign the second letter, then you still have the option of having a conversation with the HR, where you will need to stand your ground and say that you refuse to sign the letter as it was not communicated to you before, then see how it goes from there. if you're lucky they will just tell you that if you don't sign, then they cannot hire you.
malleus
post Jun 10 2021, 08:57 PM

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QUOTE(manpower4x4 @ Jun 10 2021, 05:26 PM)
This i was arguing with him for so long. He said that rejecting signing does not only mean not hiring since my payroll and email all setup. It will be a breach of employment contract (not sure if it's true) and the company may want to file claims on me for the costs incurred in my hiring.
Notice during probation is 1 month from date of acceptance of resignation.

Err how to reject politely?
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This is the interesting part here. You should ask back, what happens if you refuse to sign the second letter? As after all, they are not allowed to do wage deduction without an employee's consent, unless it's under severe circumstances where all other cost cutting measures has failed. And the fact that they're still hiring means they have not exhausted all other cost cutting measures.

malleus
post Jun 10 2021, 09:00 PM

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also, kind of a long shot, but something worth while trying if you have very good relations with your current boss and/or current company.

perhaps consider bringing up this situation to them, stating that you would like to stay, and see what they can help out with.
malleus
post Jun 12 2021, 11:09 AM

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QUOTE(manpower4x4 @ Jun 12 2021, 09:31 AM)
Company mentioned this is not a case of new offer letter... Rather, it's a case of letter of redesignation only.
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well, it does look like what you can try to do is to refuse to sign the letter agreeing to the pay cut. and tell them so, then see how they respond to it.

if they try to tell you that in this case, you just won't get paid until you sign, then remind them that it's illegal to do so. and that legally they can only do a pay cut on you should you agree to it, and you do not agree.
malleus
post Jun 12 2021, 01:44 PM

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QUOTE(manpower4x4 @ Jun 12 2021, 12:34 PM)
Oh that's good to hear le... Didn't know must consent only they cut. What can they do if I don't agree? Well I wish they fire me.
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Legally they can either pay you the original amount, or choose to terminate you. But you'll only know for sure once you have that conversation.

But before you do so, go and look up the relevant sections of the Malaysian employment act, print it out if you need to, bookmark and highlight the relevant sections so you can easily cite it back as needed when talking to HR.

Non consensual pay cuts can be legal, but if and only if all other cost cutting measures has failed, and the company is in danger of collapsing. and if they are still hiring, then they don't fall into this situation.
malleus
post Jun 14 2021, 07:45 AM

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QUOTE(manpower4x4 @ Jun 14 2021, 12:56 AM)
Well not that I want to join, the hr is using the offer letter I signed against me. He kinda gangster on me saying I should know what I have signed and what powers they hold....

And yes, the HR guy has written me a wonderful email:

Dear Mr. XXX,

As per our Tele-conversation, I have gone through the whole process with the hiring manager and the department director. It seems that the department director is not allowing such irresponsible act and would therefore require you to reimburse all hiring costs related to this position up to 12th June 2021. The vacancy is now deemed urgent as the resigning person is leaving on 18th June 2021. It is a formality that our team allows you to sign a consent form on the salary adjustment and redesignation to Managerial level. We have obtained legal approval from related government authorities on the salary adjustment as this was declared as a restructuring for survival. As such, the amount that will be claimed against your good self will be a total of 1 months salary in lieu without any deductions or adjustments. Should you continue to refrain signing the redesignation letter, a legal notice from our lawyer will be issued to you.

Regards,
Mr YYY
ZZZ Company Sdn Bhd
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1) if they can still hire, then they have not exhausted all cost cutting measures yet
2) if it's cost cutting for survival, then there's no need for them to force you to sign the letter

hence because of that they're likely to be lying about the legal approval from the related government authorities. try requesting to see the approval that they have received, saying that you wish to validate with the same authorities they have gotten such approvals from
malleus
post Jun 14 2021, 01:12 PM

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QUOTE(manpower4x4 @ Jun 14 2021, 12:34 PM)
They sent me a snippet this morning after I refused to believe it. Really got Miti stamp, sign and that relevant industry approval on cost reduction imposed to staff salaries. I dunno how they got it but got.
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very good then smile.gif now you can call up MITI to verify, and tell them that they're still hiring, and thus, have the company really exhausted all cost cutting measures before going into salary reductions.

and at the same time you can check with MITI too if what they're doing is legal or not. explain the entire thing, and see what MITI says to you.

And this can also be your immediate reply to them too. That you're checking with MITI independently on this issue, and will get back to them on it.

This post has been edited by malleus: Jun 14 2021, 01:15 PM
malleus
post Jun 14 2021, 11:25 PM

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QUOTE(manpower4x4 @ Jun 14 2021, 10:59 PM)
I already am. My current company is ok to let me stay on one condition, the new place doesn't come kacau the current company.
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So, the approval from MITI that they claim to have gotten will be subject to them demonstrating that it's crucial for survival, which also includes the condition that they must have demonstrated that all other costing measures has already failed.

From what you mentioned, they are still actively hiring right? Mention this to them, on what will MITI think of them and their approval to do salary cuts if MITI knows they're still actively hiring.

And like what others advised as well, check also with the labour department, as well as the Ministry of Human Resources too. Don't hesitate to say that you're also taking the initiative to do these checks on them with the various authorities as well.
malleus
post Jun 15 2021, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(manpower4x4 @ Jun 15 2021, 03:21 PM)
They were good advice. I did it today. Labour department said I am bound to pay back the hiring costs as I didn't notice there was a clause in my offer letter saying "All terms of employment are within the employment handbook to be presented on date of commencement. By agreeing to the offer, such agreement also cover terms within the handbook". I was thinking why they were so steady, now I know.
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ah well. this pretty much sucks then, as it does look like the only way out is for you to pay off that one month, and just take this financial hit for now. But the other thing that you can check on is, is there a ceiling amount that they can claim against you, to see if you can get the payback amount to be reduced or not.

How about MITI? do they still qualify to do cost cutting to survive if they can still hire ppl?
malleus
post Jun 16 2021, 08:32 AM

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QUOTE(manpower4x4 @ Jun 16 2021, 01:27 AM)
I asked a friend who has connections with Miti and the govt. He said a lot of companies applied for legit cost cutting despite them not in dire situation and were all approved. So miti knows what's going on apparently.
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I wonder if a complain to MITI about your case can help or not. knowing about the situation, and reacting when complaints are made can be different things after all

 

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