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 Is engineering harder than ACCA?

Is Engineering degree harder than ACCA?
 
Yes [ 157 ] ** [40.15%]
No [ 46 ] ** [11.76%]
Cannot compare, both have their own difficulties. [ 188 ] ** [48.08%]
Total Votes: 391
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post Jun 7 2021, 11:24 AM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Jun 7 2021, 10:45 AM)
engineer can do accountant job.

accountant can't do engineer job.

engineering degree is the most versatile degree you can achieve. Can work in engineering, project management, banking, consulting, accounting, real estate. Pretty much anywhere.

accountant can only do accountancy or business related roles je..
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Accountants cannot praactice engineering. Engineers cannot practice accounting.

And nothing stops an accountant from doing project management, consulting, banking, real estate, i.e., almlost any jobs that engineering degree holders can do except for engineering itself.
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post Jun 7 2021, 11:34 AM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Jun 7 2021, 11:31 AM)
why can't practice?

engineer can go do ACCA or some accounting papers.

accountant only option to do engineering is to go back to uni and do a 4 year engineering degree.  tongue.gif

bottom line is, engineering is more strict and held in higher regard. And rightly so.. you wouldn't want a non-engineer degree holder designing and approving a bridge where thousands travel on it everyday right?

If it fails, they will investigate and find the engineer who signed off on the designs. That engineer will go to jail.

Meanwhile, did any of the accountants who failed to catch the 1MDB fraud end up in jail? NOPE. Those accountants auditing the 1MDB books from Deloitte, KPMG, and many more ended up being transferred out of the country, to other country. I know this personally first hand because I know relatives and friends who were involved in the auditing. Their bosses never ended up in jail, instead they all got a nice pay raise and transferred to overseas branches of their respective companies.

That in itself is a bloody joke and just shows how seriously we treat financial audits. Not seriously at all..

If this was the standard in engineering practice, there will be catastrophe engineering disasters happening every minute of everyday.. Lucky engineers are held to high standards.
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i.e., the engineer still need to also become an accountant to practice accounting.
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post Jun 7 2021, 12:39 PM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Jun 7 2021, 11:42 AM)
You need some form of accreditation to practice accounting, duh.

ACCA is not a degree. It's a professional course that anybody can do within 2 years or less. And you can start practice accounting concurrently whilst you complete the course. Meaning, you can apply for accountant jobs and just tell the company that you are completing the certs to qualify as an accountant.

Meanwhile, not everyone can get into an engineering degree. You need to meet the pre-requisites such as completed A level physics, chemistry, add maths, specialist maths.

There's a huge difference.

There is no ACCA equivalent for engineers. If you want to become an engineer, you need to do a 4 year engineering degree. And engineering firms will never hire somebody without a degree in engineering to do an engineer job. Period.
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Perhaps your definition of "practicing" is different from mine.

To me, there are different levels of capabilities. Does a person:

0) not know anything in the field and cannot be taught at all?
1) need to be told what to do, when to do it, and how to do it?
2) need to be told what to do and can figure out how to do it himself?
3) can figure out what needs to be done and how to do it himself?

I can hire a person with your highly acclaimed 4-year engineering degree holder to do (1) or maybe even (2) while he pursue his accounting qualification. But no, he is not practicing accounting, and his remuneration will reflect this. This engineer turned accountant will never be put in charge of my company's books unless he can do (3). Similar to how your bridge project will never be awarded to a qualified engineer, your engineer turned accountant will never be tasked to audit 1MDB.

I can also hire a person with your highly acclaimed 4-year engineering degree to undertake an engineering project. Can he decide which system/machine/method is best for my company? Can he advice me when a system/machine is due for a maintenance/upgrade, or if its better to just change the system/machine altogether? If he just doing (1) or (2), and someone else needs to do the thinking and problem solving behind, I won't call him practicing engineering. My Indon workers can do (1) and (2) too. But they will never be put in charge of my engineering project until they can do (3).

If your argument is an engineer can easily move into accounting, then yes you are right. The barrier of entry into accounting is lower. But if you want to make the big buck, you must be a (3). And an engineer can't do (3) without first becoming an accountant.

In reality, I have not spoken to anyone who switched between these 2 profession and made it to (3). Although I have spoken to level 3 engineers who hoped they did accounting, I have never spoken to a level 3 accountant who hoped he did engineering. I have spoken to even more level 3 consultants, level 3 investment bankers, level 3 software developers etc who did accounting or engineering, and they don't really care about their education background.

Just sharing my experience.
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post Jun 7 2021, 12:41 PM

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QUOTE(koraget @ Jun 7 2021, 12:36 PM)
Project Managemnent? Depending on which sector, if it construction you'll need to know the sequence, labor output, machinery and techniques used to achieve the construction dateline. Same goes to factory, output, machinery failure, you also need to know the spare part of the machinery and standby a technical team for the assembly line. No comment on real estate, as you'll need familiar location, lot of connection and sweet talk.
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This is an example of a level 3 engineer. Know what needs to be done and how to do it.

Now, can your engineer come and project manage my company's IPO?


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post Jun 7 2021, 01:03 PM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Jun 7 2021, 12:51 PM)
That is my argument.  tongue.gif .

And yes, from then onwards, it is down to the persons capability and interest to improve themselves.

You wouldn't hire an accounting grad that doesn't know (3) either.

If an engineering grad applied for an accounting job, it must surely mean that they have some interest in doing accounting and as a hiring manager, you should invite them in for interview to be curious as to why an engineer applied to do an accounting job. You would probably be blown away by their answers. Don't take the elitist stance that engineers aren't able to do this job, because they can and are qualified.

Meanwhile, the same can't be said of an accountant trying to get into engineering without an engineering degree. Unfortunately, engineering doesn't work that way because of how engineering courses at University is structured. You really need to be motivated to complete the subjects taught and anybody who tried to apply for a engineer role that didn't go through a 4 year engineering degree is viewed as just a lazy person who was trying their luck.

And that is true also because nobody in their right mind would think that an accounting degree is equal in difficulty to an engineering degree.
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Out of curiousity I have tried doing this and it is a waste of time. Nothing more than a desperate job seeker. Waste of time.

Maybe my company small, but that is my experience.

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post Jun 7 2021, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Jun 7 2021, 02:05 PM)
very very few and far inbetween.

The AI is cutting 1000s of jobs. Nowadays, accounting firms only need to employ 2 maybe 3 people to oversee the backlog and vet that the AI is functioning properly. If got issues, they will just refer to the software engineer or data analyst to figure out what happened. The accountant also needed for official signing purposes only. Their role become like the Agong. Sit at the throne, & shake legs. The rest of hundreds maybe even thousands of  staff are no longer required anymore. So honestly, only the cream of the crop & people who are established within the industry will get to keep their jobs.

Everyone else, any new grads, and more will likely be told to go find work elsewhere. Most will likely end up at macdonalds flipping burgers.  tongue.gif

Same can be said of finance background people.

Better reconsider doing accountancy or finance course. Those traditional jobs are fast disappearing in this new age of technology and automation robots. 

The only future proof jobs in this new tech driven world are the jobs that are developing this AI technology. Which are engineers & IT professionals.

I would still choose to become an engineer over IT because the engineer is usually the one in charge of the entire thing. From conceptual design, building, and even implementation and execution of the technologies involved. Meanwhile, IT grads are like the new age draftsperson. Instead of working on detail drawings, the IT coder is now tasked to work on coding the software and they are explicitly told what to do by the engineer who oversees the entire operation and implementation.

Engineers & Architects will still rule this world. As long as technology is what is driving human civilisation, engineers are the master-minds and the leaders. 

Don't believe me? Just go search up the background education of CEO of most top companies. Their background will likely started from engineering expertise.
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From your statement that an accountant is only needed for official signing purpose, we can conclude that your understanding of the accounting profession is indeed very basic. Either the scale of the company that you have seen is small, or you come from the future. As of now, no accounting firms can employ 2-3 people to audit a proper company.

A modern accountant's role is not limited to bookkeeping. Automation can only takeover part of an accountant's tasks. In fact, automation is welcomed because it eliminated human errors and freed up a modern accountant's time to perform other tasks.

As of today, bots cannot:

1) Determine the optimum capital structure of a company
2) Determine the optimum group structure of a company
3) Determine the optimum deal structure in an M&A / JV etc
4) Launch cost saving initiatives for the group (tax savings, logistics etc)
5) Help my negotiate with external parties

Bots simply do not have the business acumen to replace me as of today.

But its ok. We can see that all thes facts do not matter to you because you are here to seek validation that you are intellectually superior as a human because you are an engineer. We can feed your ego. Technology is indeed truly what changes the way we live. If you are the chief engineer at Tesla, Google, or even SEA tech companies like Grab, hats off to you. rclxms.gif

All hail Liamness the holy saviour of humanity. He who passed a 4-year engineering degree.

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post Jun 7 2021, 07:56 PM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Jun 7 2021, 04:07 PM)
I highly suggest you go and look up Palantir machine based learning product and software called Foundry. They are doing this very thing already in the US and Europe with companies like Boeing, Airbus, the US government already on board with them that helps them determine inventory, asset management, predictive failure models, implement cost savings and many more. Palantir is like the Jarvis software of the world and it is capable of doing what you mentioned and so much more.

You only need to google search "Will accountants be replaced by automation" and the answer is an unequivocal & resounding, yes.

Stick your head in the sand. I get that. Nobody likes to be told that they will be obsolete & their profession is under threat from disappearing entirely in a few years time. Nobody likes to hear news like that.

But if you were smart enough to recognise that you cannot and will not be able to compete with automation, you will start building exit strategies. Don't wait until it's too late and one fine day you are told to pack up your things because you are no longer needed.  :thumbsup:
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Ok bro. I wait for the day AI can negotiate on my behalf. You highly estimated AI.

The day AI can do that, engineers would be out of job too since AI is so smart.


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post Jun 7 2021, 07:59 PM

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QUOTE(mitun @ Jun 7 2021, 04:41 PM)
I would say 90% of accountants can’t do 1-5 either. Accountants will always be needed but the majority of those doing financial reporting and auditing will be gone once the AI is good enough. Only the specialists who can give value added advice which are a tiny minority will survive.
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Ppl say AI can do 1-5 leh. Maybe he come from 100 years in the future. Hahahah.

The general consensus is AI and automation can takeover the bulk of the work in financial reporting and auditing that nobody likes to do to begin with. There are a few areas of financial reporting and auditing that AI can never takeover.

If the day comes that AI is really that smart, then AI can takeover engineers job too.

This post has been edited by ComingBackSoon: Jun 7 2021, 08:15 PM
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post Jun 7 2021, 08:10 PM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Jun 7 2021, 04:07 PM)
I highly suggest you go and look up Palantir machine based learning product and software called Foundry. They are doing this very thing already in the US and Europe with companies like Boeing, Airbus, the US government already on board with them that helps them determine inventory, asset management, predictive failure models, implement cost savings and many more. Palantir is like the Jarvis software of the world and it is capable of doing what you mentioned and so much more.

You only need to google search "Will accountants be replaced by automation" and the answer is an unequivocal & resounding, yes.

Stick your head in the sand. I get that. Nobody likes to be told that they will be obsolete & their profession is under threat from disappearing entirely in a few years time. Nobody likes to hear news like that.

But if you were smart enough to recognise that you cannot and will not be able to compete with automation, you will start building exit strategies. Don't wait until it's too late and one fine day you are told to pack up your things because you are no longer needed.  thumbsup.gif
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Since I'm so free now let me entertain you and show you the 1st page of my Google Results.

I didn't cherry pick the articles. All are from my first page of Google Search. I dunno about you, but this does not look "unequivocal and resounding yes" to me. Unless your engineer degree have taught you a different meaning for what "unequivocal and resounding" mean.

https://medium.com/human-unity/will-account...rs-2be8cf966fab
https://www.thestar.com.my/news/education/2...ace-accountants
https://www.toolbox.com/tech/artificial-int...-in-the-future/
https://www.accountingtoday.com/opinion/let...ace-accountants
https://floqast.com/blog/will-robots-take-o...g-is-automated/
https://www.quora.com/Will-accountants-be-r...e-next-20-years
https://www.thesundaily.my/business/will-ar...tants-BE4556056
https://www.itp.net/news/94006-can-ai-and-a...ace-accountants
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post Jun 7 2021, 08:26 PM

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QUOTE(koraget @ Jun 7 2021, 08:18 PM)
But the startup company IPO usually done by the founder, who themselves is the engineer or programmer.
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Errrrr. Nope.

It is done by a team of investment bankers, lawyers, and accountants.

Most engineers and programmers know jack shit about corporate laws, let alone lead the IPO process.

You go take a look at the VC world. Many startup founders who are programming and engineering geeks can be easily taken advantage of. Only know how to code and build products. Some of them already lost control of their company and still didn't know about it, still working hard at writing codes to enrich their VC slavemasters.


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post Jun 7 2021, 09:50 PM

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QUOTE(Joe1997 @ Jun 7 2021, 09:01 PM)
By then they no longer need low-tier engineer since AI can take over. However, they still need people to monitor and configure it.
As old job got replaced, a new job will surface.
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Ya lo. And who will be the one who decide how to configure the AI for financial reporting?

According to Liamness, it is the engineer who studied 4 years in uni. Engineers are the master race. rclxms.gif

All hail Liamness the holy saviour.
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post Jun 7 2021, 10:46 PM

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QUOTE(ze2 @ Jun 7 2021, 10:39 PM)
Serious question.
Accountancy and Engineering which profession has the higher chances of earning more with 10 years experience or more?
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Accounting.

Engineers don't get paid well in Malaysia. In other words, top engineering jobs are not available in Malaysia.

Unless you are in software engineering. Software engineering is the shit right now, like what SAP consultants were 5-10 years ago. Can earn in USD some more.

 

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