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 rewiring, new DB, add DB

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stormer.lyn
post Mar 20 2022, 09:29 PM

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QUOTE(diffyhelman2 @ Mar 20 2022, 09:08 PM)
What happens if the ballast/choke is not bonded with earth? none of the  old fluorescent lights in my house is connected the choke with earth. ( in any case I’m changing out these lights to LEd tubes next week). I also don’t see a connection point on the choke for an earth wire ( although some of the casing do have an earth wire bond which is unconnected)
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All electrical items with a metal body must be earthed. This includes the casing of the "fluorescent" tube, even if the tube is LED. Items that are double insulated, like plastic downlights, do not need to be earthed. But the 230Vac wiring to the light must still have the green wire, it is just not connected.

If you do not have an earth for any metal cased item, and should the LIVE touch the case, then the case will be at mains potential which can kill when you touch it. But if there is an earth bonding, then as soon as the LIVE touches the metal case, something in the DB should trip safely. Note that a LIVE wire touching an unearthed chassis, can still work as if nothing is wrong with it. With this in mind, you can run any metal cased item without an earth bonding, but your safety is compromised.
stormer.lyn
post Mar 21 2022, 01:12 PM

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QUOTE(diffyhelman2 @ Mar 20 2022, 10:27 PM)
Yes i understand the purpose of earth wire. The Fluorescent  light fixtures are normally inaccessible. Ceiling height. I’m only asking about the
Earthing of the magnetic choke.
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And I am telling you the requirement. All metal cased items that are not double insulated. This supersedes the choke inside the case.

As you have alluded to in your post, exposure determines risk. Just like you will never be mauled by a shark if you never swim in the ocean (unless you Sharknado!) a light fixture that is high and inaccessible is "safe" with no earth than say, a stand lamp. You make your choice on the level of exposure you are willing to risk.

There is no technical reason that a fluorescent tube will not work if the choke is or isn't earthed. It is done for safety.
stormer.lyn
post Mar 21 2022, 05:02 PM

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QUOTE(diffyhelman2 @ Mar 21 2022, 01:59 PM)
The ST wiring guide pdf linked by ceo, they list exceptions for earth wiring requirement on metal bodies. One of them is metallic covers for light fixture.
7.6 item iii
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Okay. If you are so confident, why did you ask the question on the first place?

By the way, this
user posted image
is not a light cover

This
user posted image
is a light cover

Lazy to take real life pictures, move to my pc, edit and annotate them, and try to convince you otherwise. You do you.
stormer.lyn
post Apr 27 2022, 10:05 PM

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QUOTE(yun2 @ Apr 27 2022, 03:28 PM)
Hi, I would really like some advise - recently I have done whole house renovation with a contractor offering "full package" with cabinet and wet works, but their workmanship seriously have been under sub par so after I kicked them out and moved in, I separately got a qualified electrician to look into potential wiring problems in my house, and they told me that most of the black wires (earth wires) has problem and need to be replaced. The cost is of course a minor problem for me (estimate ~RM10k) plus more importantly they have to hack all around the place where we have already moved in.

The electrician said if I don't mind, can wait until when there is problem then only change the whole thing and continue like currently (I have been staying in my Condo unit for 2 weeks).

I understand there are definitely risks involved with not doing anything, but I am not sure what are the risks that is involved for me to consider the trade off. Will it cause electrocution/fire, or at most short circuit and trip/burn the DB?
Can anyone enlighten me?
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Black wires = neutral, not earth.

As for problems with the black wires, I can guess only that they are being shared. This is not automatically dangerous or problematic. Your "qualified electrician" should have given you more information for example like which sockets can be used together, such that you would not need to be asking here for people to guess a solution.

If the problem is the black wires are undersized, then you can get away with just making some changes to the MCBs in your DB to cater to the undersized wires. Not ideal, but still a valid solution.
stormer.lyn
post May 7 2022, 06:37 PM

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QUOTE(lawrencehl @ May 7 2022, 01:13 PM)
Hi guys,I'm renovating my house  based on information below should I reduce MCB & RCCB rating for better safety?
The 6 A MCBs are fine, but you could reduce the 20A ones to 16A, because of the "C" curve specifications. Please check the IN and OUT wiring, as from your picture they are incorrect
QUOTE
1. I'm going to add on RCBO for WH, is that ok I purchase MCB/RCCB/RCBO from online?
No issues buying online
QUOTE
2. is EPS/MAXGUARD RCBO can tahan? will it break down often? Schneider RCBO 25A higher than 20A is that safe to use?
EPS/Maxguard no issue based on my experience. You can use 25A RCBO only if you are rewiring the water heaters to 4 mm² wiring, but no issue with either amp rating as your heaters are 3600W only (~16 A maximum)
QUOTE
3. Should I replace the old 63A MCB?
Yes. Rules state must be 30 mA (maximum) for sockets, and 100 mA (maximum) for lighting circuits. You could fulfill this with one 30 mA RCCB for both sockets and lighting Edit : Oops, sorry, I first read it as RCCB. Changing main incoming dual pole MCB is entirely your choice
QUOTE
Schneider Electric Easy9 MCB 2P C 6000A 230V (63A/40A?)
Schneider Electric Easy9 RCCB 2P AC-type 230V 30ma (63A/40A?)
Schneider Electric Easy9 RCBO, 25A, 1P+N, 6kA, C Curve 10mA or MAXGUARD RCBO 20A 2P 10mA 6KA RCBO Type AC

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All these choices are based on brand preference, and budget. All can be used, but stick with 63A as this is the rating you currently have.

Roughly, this is the number of MCBs I can count.

user posted image
Take kitchen as example : The oven has its own wiring and MCB, so would the microwave. But the food steamer, rice cooker and water purifier I would run own wiring and MCB, but going to a set of 4 sockets.
Take the study : Fan and lights on one set of wiring, but the sockets may be 4 gang so that can plug in the PC, monitor, printer and speakers, going to 1 MCB. I hope my explanation makes sense.

This post has been edited by stormer.lyn: May 7 2022, 07:42 PM
stormer.lyn
post May 8 2022, 09:32 PM

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QUOTE(lawrencehl @ May 8 2022, 09:24 PM)
Do u mean MCB in & out wiring?
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Main incoming fused isolator
stormer.lyn
post May 9 2022, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(lawrencehl @ May 8 2022, 10:03 PM)
Ok noted, I plan to add a MAXGUARD SPD CLASS 2 as well, should be good enough to protect from lighting strike right? My unit located at top floor of 20years 5 storey old apartment.
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I would like to assure you that an SPD can protect from lightning strike damage, but the truth is no one can. It's all a matter of luck; with an SPD you may have better luck, without you may have worse luck. Or it may not even be true at all, because lightning damage is absolutely unpredictable.

Let me also add a picture to show you what I see
user posted image
stormer.lyn
post May 9 2022, 09:27 PM

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QUOTE(lawrencehl @ May 9 2022, 09:10 PM)
oh, so a SPD just a risk reducer not eliminate...
Ah, well, lighting has hundreds of millions++ Joules of energy in every strike....
QUOTE
Isolator I will replace it as well since it is not expensive and will make sure the electrician connect everything correctly.
I recommend you change everything, because age can be a factor for failure of a device.
QUOTE
I'm going to add new point so will have new MCB, all top row MCB is connected thru copper bar but now new MCB will be at the bottom row so what is the proper connection method will be?
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No special connection method. The busbar for the top row, and the busbar for the bottom row, connected together with a fairly thick wire, of say 16 mm² to 25 mm²
stormer.lyn
post Dec 1 2022, 09:46 PM

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QUOTE(spreeeee @ Dec 1 2022, 08:09 AM)
hi all sifus.. may i know what is the market rate for pulling a new cable from mcb box to the backyard wet kitchen? here is the info:

-wiring length around 15feet
-to add new mcb/fuse for this new wiring
-the new wiring is going to drop into existing wall socket

was quoted rm500 for the parts and workmanship, is this ok?
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The main question is concealed wiring or not? Not concealed you will be able to get cheaper than that, should be in the 200 - 250 range.

If concealed, does it include making good the concealment? If yes then RM 500 is fair once you include the plastering, skimming, painting, ceiling work, etc. Concealed, but without making good should be in the RM 350 range.

Remember this is a one off job, and also that the prices I wrote are a rough guide only.
(If I were quoting you for this, I would be about 20% less than what I wrote, but then my customers who have become my friends always say I charge too little)

 

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