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 rewiring, new DB, add DB

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ongss
post May 11 2021, 11:42 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ May 11 2021, 12:56 PM)
Actually about time to consider replacing the bolts to SS type. Not very expensive at few bucks a piece.. for peace of mind because structurally alot of weight still supported by the rafters.
Wood rafter still usable if theres no termite history. Metal roof structures should be coated with "cooling aid paint" i.e. intumescent paint so in case of fire, the steel will not "buckle under heat" so easily.
Read more here: https://www.ifsecglobal.com/fire-protection...ire-protection/

SS bolts and nuts just cost around RM5-6 a pop for 1/2" size..as a price refernce. Best to replace like for like.
https://shopee.com.my/4%E5%88%86(1-2'&#...5689.4356684848
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ceo684 and ozak, your explanation is quite useful. I happen to rebuild a house and receive the following quote for concealed wiring using Mega wires:

1) To supply & install 100A TPN Main Switch Board (MSB) and earthing system = RM6,500
2) To supply & install Distribution Board = RM4,000 per unit
3) To supply and install Main Switch Control to G,1st and Attic Floor = RM 500.00
4) To supply to liason with TNB to relocate the meter location =RM 3,000.00
5) To supply & install 100amp TPN TNB metering panel = RM 650.00
6) To supply & install 100mm HDPE pipe =RM 250.00 per unit
7) Wiring 3phase 100amp main point using 4cX35nnsq xlpe/swa/pvc cable in 100mm HDPE pipe 2pcs = RM 5,000
8) Wiring 3 phase 40amp submain point using 4 x 16mmsq + IE x10mmsq PVC Cable in trucking (D/B-G),(D/B-G/P) & D/B-A/C1) = RM15,000 for 8 units
9) Lighting points = RM100 per point
10) Ceiling Fan points = RM 100 per point
11) Wiring 13amp power points using 2 x 2.5 sq.mm PVC cables, earth cable c/w waterproof switch socket = RM 288 per point
12) Wiring 13amp power points using 2 x 2.5 sq.mm PVC cables, earth cable and single gang 13A 3pin switch socket = RM 110 per point
13) Wiring A/C power point using 2 x 1.5 sq.mm PVC cables, earth cable c/w switch = RM 207 per point
14) Internet LAN port = RM 403 per point
15) To supply and install CP & 15A Power point in PVC conduit = RM 245.00 per point
16) To supply and install Auto Gate point in PVC/SWA/cable = RM 850.00
17) To supply and install Door Bell and Video intercom point = RM 800.00
18) To supply and install 2core Fiber Optic cable from external to FTE board (about 50') = RM 800.00
19) Testing and commissioning = RM 1,500.00

Do you think the prices are reasonable for a location at KL? My contractor is revising the lighting point from the old price of RM 52 to RM 100 per point. I saw the quote of RM67 from TS.

TSvernee26: sorry, hijack your thread to ask the experts.

This post has been edited by ongss: May 11 2021, 11:46 PM
ongss
post May 12 2021, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(vernee26 @ May 12 2021, 05:13 PM)
Sharing my ID company quotes, pending their reply on what kind of wires/sockets they are using
Thank you TS for sharing your quotations. Looks like you have a better quotation.

12) Wiring 13amp power points using 2 x 2.5 sq.mm PVC cables, earth cable and single gang 13A 3pin switch socket = RM 110 per point
RM130
I calculated wrong, my old rate was RM133, for VO, they are charging RM156.

7) Wiring 3phase 100amp main point using 4cX35nnsq xlpe/swa/pvc cable in 100mm HDPE pipe 2pcs = RM 5,000
What is this? Is this armoured cable from the TNB meter to DB?
May I also know what is this for?

Ya, I believe it is from TNB meter to the main switch.

8) Wiring 3 phase 40amp submain point using 4 x 16mmsq + IE x10mmsq PVC Cable in trucking (D/B-G),(D/B-G/P) & D/B-A/C1) = RM15,000 for 8 units
These are cable from Main Switch to DB. I have three DB and they quoted 8 units.

I actually knock down the entire house and it appears to be like installing everything new. The main con get the subcon to quote the price. My original lighting unit price was RM 52 last Nov. Now, they revise the price. I have several quotations. Lowest is RM60 and average is RM80. But, my main con revised from RM52 to RM 100 for each lighting point.

This post has been edited by ongss: May 12 2021, 06:06 PM
ongss
post May 12 2021, 07:12 PM

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QUOTE(vernee26 @ May 12 2021, 06:55 PM)
They revised because of "raw material" price increase? RM52 to RM100 seems quite a big jump.
Yours is quoting based on Mega Kabel, the most expensive already =)
I'm still waiting for my primary contractor to revert on the brand of cables they are using, if it's some no brand/china cable, it's not a good comparison already.

If you are still actively looking for electrical quotes, you can try these 2 people ( I met them earlier this week for site survey and am waiting for their quote). I'll be insisting on using Caramay / Fajar cables with the new quotes :
Ah Hui : +60 12-228 4543 (my close friend recommended this guy. The friend also did major reno, knocked down except beams/pillars)
Chai (Kejuruteraan Letrik Cahaya Baru) : +012 219 7368 (he did repair works for me previously at my current condo, seemed honest and knows what he's doing)

Both nice young chaps (30s-40 years old), chinese speaking (which is a bit tough for me, as I'm half banana sweat.gif )

I noticed your list does not include (just in case you missed it out):
1. Water heater points?
2. Garden lights, gate pillar lights
3. installing lights, fans, AC
(I'm getting separate AC installers)
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Thanks for sharing, yes, I have all those items. The unit prices are the same as the rest.

I signed up an agreement with a main con and paid 10% in Aug last year + 15% in Dec immediately after the DBKL approval. So, the price should be locked. To my perspective, I took a risk that I might loss this amount of money in view of MCO. On the other hand, I would expect the main con to hedge the prices of the raw materials. Just like the tile suppliers, if we place our deposit during HomeDec exhibition, the special promotion price will be locked until we collect the tiles.

I knew the main con makes a mark-up from the price. They are going to do the project management and I understand this requires efforts, expertices and times. But, the new prices for additional works are crazy. The cost of raw materials go up a lot - but, the labour cost and other operating cost not necessarily go up totally.

I will contact your friend to see if he is keen to work with my main con. Thank you. thumbsup.gif

This post has been edited by ongss: May 12 2021, 07:12 PM
ongss
post May 12 2021, 08:36 PM

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QUOTE(vernee26 @ May 12 2021, 07:19 PM)
btw, the electricians are not my friends yar. One of them (Ah Hui) was recommended by a close friend of mine =)
good luck with the reno! and feel free to hijack this thread anytime. meant for all to share, compare and learn.
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Thank you for sharing all the useful info. Will share once I have more update. cheers.gif
ongss
post May 13 2021, 12:15 AM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ May 12 2021, 10:37 PM)
Generally cables increased price by around 25-30% (since March 2021)
for 2.5mm Mega Kabel/Caramay used to be around 85, now its 120-125
for 4.0mm used to be around 136, now around 163 online

Since your work volume is quite a big sum, there are such things called double sockets that will make end user life easier (just pay the variation few bucks in parts pricing). It will not "overload the cables" at all under normal usage (whole circuit MCB protected). Singles are used for small jobs to earn the few bucks "per point"..if all installed double how to earn (since your job is a big job the contractor should be pound smart and not penny foolish) devil.gif
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Thanks for your professional advice. I will ask for this double sockets. cheers.gif

You are exactly right. To me, when I viewed the initial estimation, I already knew the wire, main switch, DB and even TNB panels are over priced. My brother is building his house too and faster than my phase. In my mind, I have the budget which I am willing to pay. But, I am willing to close one eye as long as the jobs are done professionally based on the data centre quality (which was quoted by the subcon).

But, when I saw the price hike from the original contract rate to the new rates, I was quite disappointed. I made the work easier by having additional DB. Even for my LAN cables, I split into "one floor one switch" so that the electrician does not need to pull the wires from main switch or DB to all locations. Now, since he is charging me by point basis and the unit price is RM 403, I rather let him do it from ground floor to all locations.

Lastly, thank you so much for your efforts to explain in the thread. I do pick up a few points to add into my VO. thumbsup.gif
ongss
post May 13 2021, 09:20 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ May 12 2021, 10:37 PM)
Since your work volume is quite a big sum, there are such things called double sockets that will make end user life easier (just pay the variation few bucks in parts pricing). It will not "overload the cables" at all under normal usage (whole circuit MCB protected). Singles are used for small jobs to earn the few bucks "per point"..if all installed double how to earn (since your job is a big job the contractor should be pound smart and not penny foolish) devil.gif
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Hi CEO684, just a few more questions, I noted that my contractor quoted me two pricing for every single 13amp point I requested:

Wiring 13amp power points using 2 x 2.5 sq.mm PVC cables, earth cable and single gang 13A 3pin switch socket - RM 110 per point
Wiring bare channel using 2 x 1.5 sq.mm PVC cables, earth cable c/w switch - RM 46.00 per point

Is this correct? One power plug needs one set of 2 x 2.5 sq.mm PVC and 2 x 1.5 sq.mm PVC cables? I did google myself, I saw some picture of bare channel. It appears to be those fitting for the traditional light

user posted image

I feel something is not right. What do you think?

Also about the double socket, you refer to this?

user posted image

Also feature light like the following picture, if there are three light bulbs, it is considered as wiring of three points and the price is RM 100 x 3. But, I saw in Lazada something can do the same job but cheaper:

user posted image

user posted image

Thank you so much for your guidance.

This post has been edited by ongss: May 13 2021, 09:43 PM
ongss
post May 13 2021, 11:19 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ May 13 2021, 10:58 PM)
[attachmentid=10878179]
Ref. above diagram and also to the sections 3.4-3.5 [attachmentid=10878180]:
13A SSO need a full set 2.5mm² LNE (3-wires) from DB into the socket.
"Looping" (connect from next door existing socket into a nearby new socket) is the radial diagram.

For lighting point, they are cheaper since the wire length is shorter and the cables are thinner at 1.5mm².
Earth is optional if not using those old type fluorescent tube with the magnetic brick choke, and is usually not fitted, but its alright to have it fitted.
Typically lights do not come with earth wire, but for the old fluorescent tube with magnetic brick choke, this choke is like a "transformer" that need to be bonded to earth, while the lamp casing is not required to be earthed. Modern LED tube does not use the old magnetic choke so no requirement under section 7.5.

Usually (in standard 1 light point 1 switch, no staircase switching) it is:
single wire L from DB box to the switch, from switch and end at light point.
single wire N starting from light point and return to DB box.
Bare channel usually refer to the "casing kosong" for tube lights. Casing kosong meaning NO starter and NO choke (since these dinosaurs are not required) - LED tubes do not need the dinosaur parts to work. A bare casing will be able to operate LED tubes perfectly, usually these casing kosong is described as for use with LED-only.
Yes. As per the diagram the only extra effort is that the box hole need to be hacked bigger, and you need the double socket with matching box. Itu sahaja.
Identical wiring effort as per single socket as there's only 3 holes to be wired.
Per diagram.. technically 3 runs from DB box, able to individually control 3 different bulbs on a 3-gang switch (in any possible permutations of ABC on/off)  are considered chargeable as 3 points.
Technically this will be branching out 8 lights from one light point. Something like Xmas lights, 100 little bulbs on a single run, but with the RF controller you can turn on each of those 100 little bulbs individually. However, you still need some short wiring from the central controller to the 8 lights (like spider legs).
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Thank you so much for your advice.

I think something is going wrong with this subcon electrician. Light points are quoted as a separate item in the contract and I reconcile the number.

For each 13A power plug, the subcon electrician is charging one bare channel to pair with this. Based on your description, I don't need the bare channel. I must be one of the best water fishes in town. bangwall.gif

This post has been edited by ongss: May 13 2021, 11:24 PM
ongss
post May 13 2021, 11:42 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ May 13 2021, 11:28 PM)
Most welcome  smile.gif

If my understanding is correct you just need the wires sticking out where the light should be unless you're going with the tube lights?
(this pic shows a light point, fan point c/w hook, and doorbell point out the wall) but essentially the core idea is a ready-to-hook-up point.

[attachmentid=10878182]

Sometimes.. if the main con not clear about what's going on, then the subcon may add in all the side dish upgrades which are not needed or totally don't make sense.
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Ya, I just need the wires sticking out like your picture and they already charge me the Lighting Points.

I think the subcon thought that I would not check details and raise any enquiry. The main con takes the quotation and add their mark-up for the project management fees. When I asked if I could bring in my own electrician, the main con wants to penalize me for any delay caused by my new electrician. But, for the past 5 months, I have never threatened them for delays despite I have paid a large lump sum.

It is good to have forummers like you to help people to read through the items. Otherwise, a lot of home owners will be slaughtered like water fishes. vmad.gif
ongss
post May 14 2021, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(vernee26 @ May 12 2021, 06:55 PM)
I noticed your list does not include (just in case you missed it out):
1. Water heater points?
2. Garden lights, gate pillar lights
3. installing lights, fans, AC
(I'm getting separate AC installers)
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Your thread is so useful that I revised it again and again. rclxms.gif

Then, I realize I forgot to answer you the above questions.

1. Wiring water heater power point using 4mm sq PVC cable in PVC cable, earth cable c/w 20amp switch - RM 288 per unit
2. Garden Lighting points (including gate pillar lights) using 1 x 1.5 sq.mm PVC cable, earth cable and 10 A switches. - RM 279 per unit
3. Wall Lighting Point using 2 x 1.5 sq.mm PVC cable, earth cable and 6A switches. - RM 100 per unit

About air-con installation, install the fans, light bulbs, and etc - I will have separate quotations.

I am currently also studying the ABB T2 SPD as the area my new house is also an area with frequent lightning and rain stomp.

The price I received is very expensive because of main con mark-up. My house is also a semi-d with attic. I spoke to a few electricians past few days. Unit prices depends on the quantities. For a small house with 40 power points or 80 lighting points, the unit price are higher. For a big house with 120 power points and 100 lighting points, the unit prices are lower. My brother is building his 8000 sqft bungalow. His unit price is even lower.

This post has been edited by ongss: May 14 2021, 03:50 PM

 

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