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> Proton Saga vs Proton Persona vs Beeza, Which one worth to buy ?

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ah_suknat
post Jun 15 2021, 08:43 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jun 15 2021, 11:20 AM)
Custom build instead of mass production = price sky rocket.

Economics of scale flew out the window suddenly? Lol
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Its not really customade per se

Its just a manual version of the top spec, and instead of car manufacturers wasting resources making tons of manual version without knowing the demand, they only assemble the manual version if a customer want a manual version. it will safe them money in the grand scheme of things
Quazacolt
post Jun 15 2021, 09:11 PM

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QUOTE(ah_suknat @ Jun 15 2021, 08:43 PM)
Its not really customade per se

Its just a manual version of the top spec, and instead of car manufacturers wasting resources making tons of manual version without knowing the demand, they only assemble the manual version if a customer want a manual version. it will safe them money in the grand scheme of things
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bro, you know production line isn't free right? one more spec one more variant = 1 more line.

(we can see why proton was struggling so much back then yes? like 5? or more variants for one iriz and another 4-5 for Persona, 1.3 - 1.6 manual auto then standard exec premium.

Geely came aboard straight chop off low demanding ones.
constant_weight
post Jun 16 2021, 05:30 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jun 15 2021, 09:11 PM)
bro, you know production line isn't free right? one more spec one more variant = 1 more line.

(we can see why proton was struggling so much back then yes? like 5? or more variants for one iriz and another 4-5 for Persona, 1.3 - 1.6 manual auto then standard exec premium.

Geely came aboard straight chop off low demanding ones.
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Unless super high volume like VW global factory or ultra high volume household items like shampoo or toothpaste, most factory don't have luxury to setup new line just for product variants.

It is usually production line conversion that need to change the mechanical fixtures, and software link to different part number or profile for the automation robot etc.

Meaning it is worse than 1 more line as conversion = non productive time, especially in automotive. Even switching different color involve productivity loss.

This post has been edited by constant_weight: Jun 16 2021, 05:32 PM
amscouzach57
post Jun 16 2021, 05:49 PM

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QUOTE(zero5177 @ Jun 15 2021, 07:28 PM)
Glad I get to experience 5MT with hydraulic clutch from Persona VVT,
I guess Malaysian don't have the fate to get a taste of 6MT on common car  sad.gif
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You still can. 6MT can be found in pickup trucks.

Still common & affordable per se
amscouzach57
post Jun 16 2021, 08:11 PM

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QUOTE(chuan30378 @ May 3 2021, 10:54 PM)
Hi Forumers,

Just request u all give any opinion or comment for above 3 models car, which one worth to buy ? Recently user are most welcome to give the comment, thank you very much !! thumbup.gif
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TS, at the end, which car you decided to buy?
mffa
post Jun 16 2021, 10:38 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Jun 14 2021, 09:33 AM)
Bigger cc car not necessarily consume more fuel like most people believe. If engine is lower power, the gear ration is increased that the rpm is higher to ease the load to engine. Higher rpm means more fuel.

My 1.5 MyVi is significantly uses less fuel than my previous Axia.

My rough evaluation comparing 1L and 2L engine on highway
1.5L engine around 5L/100km @ 80km/h
2L engine around 6.2L/100km @ 80km/h
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QUOTE(tctham @ Jun 14 2021, 10:48 AM)
actually if you drove the saga blm, you will know what i mean about the fuel consumption. if 100% city jam, it's about 7-9km /L. About 240-270km, and the fuel low indicator will come up.
even at highway, it's only around 10-11km/L
even amongst its competitors, there's not many cars with FC that poor, even those with bigger cc engines.
that was my main gripe about the car back then. (poor fc -> makes a petrol station trip every 4 days because of weekday jam, poor standstill acceleration -> fear during junction exit, lack of abs -> emergency maneuver, pair with its stock silverstone, the car slides around a lot)
yes, i've seen other cars with 2.0L engine, and their FC is better than mine. haha
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QUOTE(amscouzach57 @ Jun 14 2021, 11:06 AM)
Agreed. My Mazda 6 2.2D FC is better than my Saga FLX 1.6 SE & also Persona VVT 1.6 😅

Even in 100% city driving 🤦‍♂️
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QUOTE(chuan30378 @ Jun 14 2021, 11:14 PM)
I believe however also, we must accept Nippon car is sure good in fuel consumption if compare other country one, City , Vios , Mazda all in their technology always in the mind of public their are leading in fuel consumption  , this is truth  thumbup.gif
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FC I think, u get what u pay lor..

Rm30k car, combined fc: 10km/L

Rm150k car, combined fc: 15km/L

How to compare lor. not a really fair comparison.

I think if car A fuel efficient than car B in same price range, then I admit car A definitely fuel efficient.

If car A fuel efficient than car B, but different price range, I dont really think car A is fuel efficient as the comparison is not fair to begin with.

U pay more u get more features la right including much more fuel efficient car. No?.

This post has been edited by mffa: Jun 16 2021, 10:42 PM
TSchuan30378
post Jun 16 2021, 11:09 PM

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QUOTE(amscouzach57 @ Jun 16 2021, 08:11 PM)
TS, at the end, which car you decided to buy?
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Hi mate, 1st choice = persona , 2nd choice = saga , will change my mind maybe if the changes of the outlook & internal of persona really make me not interested of it thumbup.gif
amscouzach57
post Jun 17 2021, 12:13 AM

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QUOTE(chuan30378 @ Jun 16 2021, 11:09 PM)
Hi mate, 1st choice = persona , 2nd choice = saga , will change my mind maybe if the changes of the outlook & internal of persona really make me not interested of it thumbup.gif
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If that is the case. Wait a little bit for the Persona facelift. Gonna be soon. Maybe in July or August.
amscouzach57
post Jun 17 2021, 12:27 AM

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QUOTE(mffa @ Jun 16 2021, 10:38 PM)
FC I think, u get what u pay lor..

Rm30k car, combined fc: 10km/L

Rm150k car, combined fc: 15km/L

How to compare lor. not a really fair comparison.

I think if car A fuel efficient than car B in same price range, then I admit car A definitely fuel efficient.

If car A fuel efficient than car B, but different price range, I dont really think car A is fuel efficient as the comparison is not fair to begin with.

U pay more u get more features la right including much more fuel efficient car. No?.
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That's not the way I perceived it.

Cheap car, supposed to be cheap to run & economy is the main factor of sorts. A car a smaller displacement engine, smaller in size & much lighter in weight, you would think logically the car would be fuel efficient. But no.. they tend to be a fuel guzzler.

When I bought the Mazda 6, never once came across my mind I think about fuel efficiency. I buy it for the driving pleasure, the emotion exerted when behind the steering wheel. Twin turbocharged & considerably large displacement engine. Larger size & heavier in weight. Fuel efficiency came as a surprise.

Following your logic, people wouldn't buy the myvi & the cars within the same segment. Not just the price needs to be cheap. But they have to be cheap to run as well. That was the success recipe.

It doesn't make sense to me to buy a more expensive car due to fuel efficiency. The money save from fuel saving doesn't even justify the extra price to pay.

Not that I'm complaining. Love driving my cars regardless. My earlier statement is just to agree with a fact

This post has been edited by amscouzach57: Jun 17 2021, 12:29 AM
mffa
post Jun 17 2021, 02:58 AM

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QUOTE(amscouzach57 @ Jun 17 2021, 12:27 AM)
That's not the way I perceived it.

Cheap car, supposed to be cheap to run & economy is the main factor of sorts. A car a smaller displacement engine, smaller in size & much lighter in weight, you would think logically the car would be fuel efficient. But no.. they tend to be a fuel guzzler.

When I bought the Mazda 6, never once came across my mind I think about fuel efficiency. I buy it for the driving pleasure, the emotion exerted when behind the steering wheel. Twin turbocharged & considerably large displacement engine. Larger size & heavier in weight. Fuel efficiency came as a surprise.

Following your logic, people wouldn't buy the myvi & the cars within the same segment. Not just the price needs to be cheap. But they have to be cheap to run as well. That was the success recipe.

It doesn't make sense to me to buy a more expensive car due to fuel efficiency. The money save from fuel saving doesn't even justify the extra price to pay.

Not that I'm complaining. Love driving my cars regardless. My earlier statement is just to agree with a fact
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My point is, nowadays advancement in technology make expensive cars as fuel efficient if not better than cheaper cars.

People definitely will still go for cheaper car lor due to cheap price/cheap maintance. people here so shock how come bigger more powerful car get better fuel economy.

the thruth is cars above rm100k technology advance so fast. while cars below rm100k technology is static in malaysia.

that is the sad thruth. In next 5 to 10 years, people will no longer talk about small car fuel efficiency. as above rm100k car match their fc already.
Zot
post Jun 17 2021, 08:32 AM

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QUOTE(amscouzach57 @ Jun 17 2021, 12:27 AM)
That's not the way I perceived it.

Cheap car, supposed to be cheap to run & economy is the main factor of sorts. A car a smaller displacement engine, smaller in size & much lighter in weight, you would think logically the car would be fuel efficient. But no.. they tend to be a fuel guzzler.

When I bought the Mazda 6, never once came across my mind I think about fuel efficiency. I buy it for the driving pleasure, the emotion exerted when behind the steering wheel. Twin turbocharged & considerably large displacement engine. Larger size & heavier in weight. Fuel efficiency came as a surprise.

Following your logic, people wouldn't buy the myvi & the cars within the same segment. Not just the price needs to be cheap. But they have to be cheap to run as well. That was the success recipe.

It doesn't make sense to me to buy a more expensive car due to fuel efficiency. The money save from fuel saving doesn't even justify the extra price to pay.

Not that I'm complaining. Love driving my cars regardless. My earlier statement is just to agree with a fact
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QUOTE(mffa @ Jun 17 2021, 02:58 AM)
My point is, nowadays advancement in technology make expensive cars as fuel efficient if not better than cheaper cars.

People definitely will still go for cheaper car lor due to cheap price/cheap maintance. people here so shock how come bigger more powerful car get better fuel economy.

the thruth is cars above rm100k technology advance so fast. while cars below rm100k technology is static in malaysia.

that is the sad thruth. In next 5 to 10 years, people will no longer talk about small car fuel efficiency. as above rm100k car match their fc already.
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I think you guys think too complicated. It is not mainly about high tech or car price. The general main reason is the bigger the car engine, the more expensive the price. Therefore in general the bigger car has bigger engine and the higher the price.

After that, the price added up with more more bells and whistles. If you buy small luxury car that usually comes with big engine, then the fuel consumption much lower than the big car with same size.

When a car with more weight has to be moved by small engine, then the gear ratio is adjusted to give more power. Therefore, the engine will run at higher rpm to increase power while the bigger engine can move the car with much lower gear ratio. That determines FC in general. This the reason why 1 ton lorry has small wheel size to help it move the heavy load wink.gif
DS51
post Jun 17 2021, 11:55 AM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Jun 17 2021, 08:32 AM)
I think you guys think too complicated. It is not mainly about high tech or car price. The general main reason is the bigger the car engine, the more expensive the price. Therefore in general the bigger car has bigger engine and the higher the price.

After that, the price added up with more more bells and whistles. If you buy small luxury car that usually comes with big engine, then the fuel consumption much lower than the big car with same size.

When a car with more weight has to be moved by small engine, then the gear ratio is adjusted to give more power. Therefore, the engine will run at higher rpm to increase power while the bigger engine can move the car with much lower gear ratio. That determines FC in general. This the reason why 1 ton lorry has small wheel size to help it move the heavy load wink.gif
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last time where got turbocharge, turbodiesel..but now all going turbo

and gearbox too. budget car still stuck with 4at transmission, while expensive above rm100k already move into 6at, dct, dsg, zf8, 9gtronic.

I got small cheaper car, and above rm180k car. tbh small car is cheaper in everyway such as service, tyre change, insurance. but fuel consumption lose to my expensive car under normal driving behavior.

majority people did not notice this as they always gunning their powerful car. try to drive leisurely, it will become very very fuel efficient. thats the beauty of engineering advancement which cheap car dont get.

This post has been edited by DS51: Jun 17 2021, 11:55 AM
Zot
post Jun 17 2021, 12:06 PM

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QUOTE(DS51 @ Jun 17 2021, 11:55 AM)
last time where got turbocharge, turbodiesel..but now all going turbo

and gearbox too. budget car still stuck with 4at transmission, while expensive above rm100k already move into 6at, dct, dsg, zf8, 9gtronic.

I got small cheaper car, and above rm180k car. tbh small car is cheaper in everyway such as service, tyre change, insurance. but fuel consumption lose to my expensive car under normal driving behavior.

majority people did not notice this as they always gunning their powerful car. try to drive leisurely, it will become very very fuel efficient. thats the beauty of engineering advancement which cheap car dont get.
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I guess more likely small car for short distances more on city road than highway compare to more highway distance then city road distance. If both on same route with same driving behavior, I think smaller car should not be losing to big one laugh.gif
DS51
post Jun 17 2021, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Jun 14 2021, 09:33 AM)
Bigger cc car not necessarily consume more fuel like most people believe. If engine is lower power, the gear ration is increased that the rpm is higher to ease the load to engine. Higher rpm means more fuel.

My 1.5 MyVi is significantly uses less fuel than my previous Axia.
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QUOTE(Zot @ Jun 17 2021, 12:06 PM)
I guess more likely small car for short distances more on city road than highway compare to more highway distance then city road distance. If both on same route with same driving behavior, I think smaller car should not be losing to big one  laugh.gif
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😁😁

This post has been edited by DS51: Jun 17 2021, 03:03 PM
Zot
post Jun 17 2021, 03:43 PM

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QUOTE(DS51 @ Jun 17 2021, 02:58 PM)
😁😁
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I was referring to Big car vs small car. MyVi and Axia are about the same size but different engine size.

Did you run fair test or not? tongue.gif
tctham
post Jun 17 2021, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(mffa @ Jun 16 2021, 10:38 PM)
FC I think, u get what u pay lor..

Rm30k car, combined fc: 10km/L

Rm150k car, combined fc: 15km/L

How to compare lor. not a really fair comparison.

I think if car A fuel efficient than car B in same price range, then I admit car A definitely fuel efficient.

If car A fuel efficient than car B, but different price range, I dont really think car A is fuel efficient as the comparison is not fair to begin with.

U pay more u get more features la right including much more fuel efficient car. No?.
*
my point is just very simple. i drove a saga blm before (so speaking as an ex-owner)
the car has a poor fuel economy (regardless of city or highway, it still wun be stellar. it is just below average compared to most cars with similar engine size or similar price point)
turning back time, given the choice i had at that time, i would still buy the same car though because it is a rather comfortable car to drive and sit in. but wanting to buy it again, does not deny the fact, that it guzzles fuel.

it's like.. i buy a myvi, then i say, it has rather poor handling.. then you come tell me, it's a myvi, sure la handling wun be as good as a civic.
it's not like we trying to compare it up against a different class of car. in a game of pros and cons, myvi has poorer handling capability, but better fuel economy and perhaps reliability also.

sometimes we gotta say the pros and cons, because the potential owner, needs to know about it, and then live with it.
personally, i like to know the bad points about the car (which part is sub average) and then decide, whether or not i can live with it.
if there is a car, with the power delivery that i want, the handling that i want, but the car seat is uncomfortable for me (perhaps not suitable for ppl of my height)
then i would have to forgo this car. because the uncomfortable seat will annoy me from day 1 till the day i sell the car.

but if the car has comfort, and handling, but poor power delivery. i may still accept it, because i don't zoom zoom on the road anyway. it may be a cons to other ppl, but it's something that i can live with..
sometimes we share the cons, so others can evaluate, and see if it is a deal breaker for them or not. some ppl just cannot accept poor fc car and will complain about it every single day

though i must say, halfway through my ownership of the saga blm, i've encountered some accident and poor repair job made the car unreliable. on top of that, the poor fc and my poor financial condition at that time, made the car rather undesirable for me at that point.

if the car was repaired properly, and with my current financial condition, i would not gripe that much about the car fc today, like i did back then. i would just learn to live with the poor fc.
DS51
post Jun 17 2021, 05:08 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Jun 17 2021, 03:43 PM)
I was referring to Big car vs small car. MyVi and Axia are about the same size but different engine size.

wow. taichi to the max. kerb weight not the same tho. 😁😁
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This post has been edited by DS51: Jun 17 2021, 05:26 PM
Zot
post Jun 17 2021, 05:35 PM

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QUOTE(DS51 @ Jun 17 2021, 05:08 PM)

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What taici?

I have done practical comparison myself.

My 2L engine (AWD) even though losing but the margin is not that much to Axia 1L.

You said you have small car. Have you done comparison apple to apple? I your luxury car can beat your small 1L car then I cannot say much, but so far all my comparison still won by smaller car because it is lighter. However, my 2.5L also did not lost that much Of course better response but that is not the criteria here.
dogbert_chew
post Jun 17 2021, 11:45 PM

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My Axia E does 15-16km/l pure city and 17-18km/l mix city highway and my old Prius did both above 20km/l

Different technology makes size irrelevant?
mffa
post Jun 18 2021, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(dogbert_chew @ Jun 17 2021, 11:45 PM)
My Axia E does 15-16km/l pure city and 17-18km/l mix city highway and my old Prius did both above 20km/l

Different technology makes size irrelevant?
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Definitely..But technology come with a price. Those who afford the asking price definitely will reap the benefit from the technology advancement.

Can see from video below how bigger, heavier, powerful car can be as efficient as small, lighter, underpowered car. Yeah, back to technology which come with asking price.



This post has been edited by mffa: Jun 18 2021, 09:58 AM

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