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TSwhycanot323
post Apr 23 2021, 09:40 AM, updated 3y ago

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Hello Sifus,

I have some time investing in KLSE.
Currently using M+, which having lowest handling fee.

But, I am currently exploring oversea stock tradings...

Requirements:
1) Mainly for this 5 markets will do: TWSE, HKEX, SGX, China and US. --> (must)
2) The investment account must be under my name, cannot accept custodian account (held under investment firm) --> (must)
3) Pre-funded accounts, or cash upfront trading (CUT) accounts is okay for me (okay either)

Question:
1) i got both malaysia/singapore banking accounts, here asking, what investment firm offers lowest brokerage/other fees for small amount trading (less than rm10k per trade) ?

So far in my shallow study is: Tiger, FSMone and MooMoo. If you are a user from the 3 mentioned, please provide me your experience/opinion =)

note: no forex, no bitcoin, no funds/unit trusts... in faith with company stocks only TQ rclxm9.gif

This post has been edited by whycanot323: Apr 23 2021, 09:51 AM
JimK
post Apr 23 2021, 09:54 AM

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tiger ok
Ramjade
post Apr 23 2021, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(whycanot323 @ Apr 23 2021, 09:40 AM)
Hello Sifus,

I have some time investing in KLSE.
Currently using M+, which having lowest handling fee.

But, I am currently exploring oversea stock tradings...

Requirements:
1) Mainly for this 5 markets will do: TWSE, HKEX, SGX, China and US. --> (must)
2) The investment account must be under my name, cannot accept custodian account (held under investment firm) --> (must)
3) Pre-funded accounts, or cash upfront trading (CUT) accounts is okay for me (okay either)

Question:
1) i got both malaysia/singapore banking accounts, here asking, what investment firm offers lowest brokerage/other fees for small amount trading (less than rm10k per trade) ?

So far in my shallow study is: Tiger, FSMone and MooMoo. If you are a user from the 3 mentioned, please provide me your experience/opinion =)

note: no forex, no bitcoin, no funds/unit trusts... in faith with company stocks only TQ rclxm9.gif
*
You can forget about account must be under your name. All overseas brokerage are custodian. So live with it. Only way you are going to get under your name is
1. Fly to the country and visit their branch as many of this overseas brokerage in your name does not accept online customers.
Those that accept online customers are custodian.

2. You want the best go with interactive broker. It's custodian btw. You don't want pay USD 10/month fee if you are using interactive broker go with trade station global. It's a whitelable of interactive broker. They charged higher commision say USD1.50 Vs interactive broker at USD 0.35 but you won't get pesky fees.

Moomoo requires passport. Tiger, FSMone and MooMoo are all custodian. I told you cannot run away from custodian.
I have FSM, tiger and plan to open moomoo.

Before tiger and moomoo, FSM is the best brokerage only for sg stocks. Nothing more. It's lousy for HK, US stocks. Not anymore with tiger and moomoo.

I opened tiger for one reason only. Real time data. Interactive broker required you to pay for it. Yes I have interactive broker (trade station global as I refuse to pay USD10/month). All my trades are done on IBKR and tiger is just for real time data.

Even with tiger and moomoo, interactive broker is still the best.
Reason for planning of opening moomoo is to get access to option price.

Interactive broker does not have access to Taiwan. No one has. You need to manually find a Taiwan brokerage.
Interactive broker all market except Taiwan.
Tiger HK, SG, US only
Moomoo HK, SG, US only

rexus
post Apr 23 2021, 10:39 AM

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IBKR?
TOS
post Apr 23 2021, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(whycanot323 @ Apr 23 2021, 09:40 AM)
Hello Sifus,

I have some time investing in KLSE.
Currently using M+, which having lowest handling fee.

But, I am currently exploring oversea stock tradings...

Requirements:
1) Mainly for this 5 markets will do: TWSE, HKEX, SGX, China and US. --> (must)
2) The investment account must be under my name, cannot accept custodian account (held under investment firm) --> (must)
3) Pre-funded accounts, or cash upfront trading (CUT) accounts is okay for me (okay either)

Question:
1) i got both malaysia/singapore banking accounts, here asking, what investment firm offers lowest brokerage/other fees for small amount trading (less than rm10k per trade) ?

So far in my shallow study is: Tiger, FSMone and MooMoo. If you are a user from the 3 mentioned, please provide me your experience/opinion =)

note: no forex, no bitcoin, no funds/unit trusts... in faith with company stocks only TQ rclxm9.gif
*
Just to let you know that some Taiwanese shares, especially the semiconductor ones have ADRs in the US. If you really can't find any way to invest directly in Taiwanese shares, your best alternative is to invest in ADRs of these shares. I know TSMC has a very active ADR.

Also, Taiwan has strict capital control, something you need to take note if you invest directly there.

This post has been edited by TOS: Apr 23 2021, 11:47 AM
honsiong
post Apr 23 2021, 02:37 PM

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`The investment account must be under my name`

This is only a thing in Malaysia and Singapore, US stocks are parked under street name aka your broker. This is how they achieve low commissions, less paperwork, complexity, and they can lend your shares out to short sellers.

Anyway, Moomoo and Tiger are very similar, but now Moomoo got the free AAPL stock promo, so you should consider that.
TSwhycanot323
post Apr 23 2021, 04:52 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Apr 23 2021, 10:20 AM)
You can forget about account must be under your name. All overseas brokerage are custodian. So live with it. Only way you are going to get under your name is
1. Fly to the country and visit their branch as many of this overseas brokerage in your name does not accept online customers.
Those that accept online customers are custodian.

2. You want the best go with interactive broker. It's custodian btw. You don't want pay USD 10/month fee if you are using interactive broker go with trade station global. It's a whitelable of interactive broker. They charged higher commision say USD1.50 Vs interactive broker at USD 0.35 but you won't get pesky fees.

Moomoo requires passport. Tiger, FSMone and MooMoo are all custodian. I told you cannot run away from custodian.
I have FSM, tiger and plan to open moomoo.

Before tiger and moomoo, FSM is the best brokerage only for sg stocks. Nothing more. It's lousy for HK, US stocks. Not anymore with tiger and moomoo.

I opened tiger for one reason only. Real time data. Interactive broker required you to pay for it. Yes I have interactive broker (trade station global as I refuse to pay USD10/month). All my trades are done on IBKR and tiger is just for real time data.

Even with tiger and moomoo, interactive broker is still the best.
Reason for planning of opening moomoo is to get access to option price.

Interactive broker does not have access to Taiwan. No one has. You need to manually find a Taiwan brokerage.
Interactive broker all market except Taiwan.
Tiger HK, SG, US only
Moomoo  HK, SG, US only
*
QUOTE(TOS @ Apr 23 2021, 11:46 AM)
Just to let you know that some Taiwanese shares, especially the semiconductor ones have ADRs in the US. If you really can't find any way to invest directly in Taiwanese shares, your best alternative is to invest in ADRs of these shares. I know TSMC has a very active ADR.

Also, Taiwan has strict capital control, something you need to take note if you invest directly there.
*
QUOTE(honsiong @ Apr 23 2021, 02:37 PM)
`The investment account must be under my name`

This is only a thing in Malaysia and Singapore, US stocks are parked under street name aka your broker. This is how they achieve low commissions, less paperwork, complexity, and they can lend your shares out to short sellers.

Anyway, Moomoo and Tiger are very similar, but now Moomoo got the free AAPL stock promo, so you should consider that.
*
Thanks Sifu-Sifu for reply my enquiry.
Okay, i accept the fact to have the custodian account now.


refer to your explanations i decided to :
Interactive Broker is dropped due to i also cannot pay usd10/month.
FSMone is dropped due to lousy at HK & US stocks.
MooMoo/Futu is dropped also , after made some readings at article, tiger has lower overall fee and have more features than it. (found an article comparing MooMoo VS Tiger)

My trading plan on overseas is for long term, plan to buy stock or top up only, might place for 2-5 years only sell. charging for inactivity cannot be accepted.

i now seeing Tiger and Trade Station Global suits my requirements as per your inputs....
so now my new question is....
1) sum up all handling fees comparison between the two , which will cheaper? lets says (less than rm10k per transaction)
2) who cover more trading things? more feature macam can buy options/futures/index (although i havent explore... now only know company stock)
3) who more user friendly?
4) top up money into account/ withdraw money from account? who faster? within day or more?
5) since you having so many accounts at differ platform: if you plan to buy lets say ABC company stocks at US this week, which platform will u use to buy it?



sorry so many questions, because i only plan to open 1 of the many and futures all transactions will keep under the one acc/platform.... easier for clumsy me to manage... notworthy.gif notworthy.gif notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by whycanot323: Apr 23 2021, 04:55 PM
honsiong
post Apr 23 2021, 05:39 PM

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Wait, Moomoo has higher fees than Tiger? Where is the source?

I am using both. They are nearly identical in brokerage fees, platform fee, forex spread of 0.6%.

Please don’t write off moomoo. Their app and technical execution are stronger than Tiger. Tiger makes you deposit into their account and have you write reference, Moomoo actually opens an escrow account with unique account number for you with DBS!

This post has been edited by honsiong: Apr 23 2021, 05:40 PM
Ramjade
post Apr 23 2021, 08:55 PM

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QUOTE(whycanot323 @ Apr 23 2021, 04:52 PM)
Thanks Sifu-Sifu for reply my enquiry.
Okay, i accept the fact to have the custodian account now.
refer to your explanations i decided to :
Interactive Broker is dropped due to i also cannot pay usd10/month.
FSMone is dropped due to lousy at HK & US stocks.
MooMoo/Futu is dropped also , after made some readings at article, tiger has lower overall fee and have more features than it. (found an article comparing MooMoo VS Tiger)

My trading plan on overseas is for long term, plan to buy stock or top up only, might place for 2-5 years only sell. charging for inactivity cannot be accepted.

i now seeing Tiger and Trade Station Global suits my requirements as per your inputs....
so now my new question is....
1) sum up all handling fees comparison between the two , which will cheaper? lets says (less than rm10k per transaction)
2) who cover more trading things? more feature macam can buy options/futures/index (although i havent explore... now only know company stock)
3) who more user friendly?
4) top up money into account/ withdraw money from account? who faster? within day or more?
5) since you having so many accounts at differ platform: if you plan to buy lets say ABC company stocks at US this week, which platform will u use to buy it?

sorry so many questions, because i only plan to open 1 of the many and futures all transactions will keep under the one acc/platform.... easier for clumsy me to manage...  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif
*
Moomoo have lower fees than tiger and it's faster, better. Only downside is you need passport to open moomoo. You don't need passport to open tiger.

1. Go count yourself.
https://ringgitfreedom.com/2020/11/13/journ...onal-brokerage/
https://ringgitfreedom.com/2020/12/05/inves...station-global/
Cheapest is pure IBKR at USD 0.35/transaction.
Next is tradestation-ibkr at USD1.50/transaction.
https://www.tradestation-international.com/...ng-commissions/
Moomoo is USD 1.99
https://support.futusg.com/en-us/topic76/h5

2. That you will need to ask moomoo customer service. I don't think they can do futures.
https://support.futusg.com/en-us/category11029/scid11039/h5

3. Moomoo

4. Moomoo provided you use sg bank account.

5. I will always use interactive broker as they are the cheapesr and I already have account with them.

You want even cheaper use webull. But you pay high exchange rate + bank charges as they don't support sg bank account.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Apr 23 2021, 09:08 PM
TOS
post Apr 23 2021, 09:12 PM

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QUOTE(whycanot323 @ Apr 23 2021, 04:52 PM)
Thanks Sifu-Sifu for reply my enquiry.
Okay, i accept the fact to have the custodian account now.
refer to your explanations i decided to :
Interactive Broker is dropped due to i also cannot pay usd10/month.
FSMone is dropped due to lousy at HK & US stocks.
MooMoo/Futu is dropped also , after made some readings at article, tiger has lower overall fee and have more features than it. (found an article comparing MooMoo VS Tiger)

My trading plan on overseas is for long term, plan to buy stock or top up only, might place for 2-5 years only sell. charging for inactivity cannot be accepted.

i now seeing Tiger and Trade Station Global suits my requirements as per your inputs....
so now my new question is....
1) sum up all handling fees comparison between the two , which will cheaper? lets says (less than rm10k per transaction)
2) who cover more trading things? more feature macam can buy options/futures/index (although i havent explore... now only know company stock)
3) who more user friendly?
4) top up money into account/ withdraw money from account? who faster? within day or more?
5) since you having so many accounts at differ platform: if you plan to buy lets say ABC company stocks at US this week, which platform will u use to buy it?

sorry so many questions, because i only plan to open 1 of the many and futures all transactions will keep under the one acc/platform.... easier for clumsy me to manage...  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif
*
I can't comment much on other platforms since I don't use them. Others will offer a better perspective.

I will share my experience on Tradestation Global. I was introduced to this by Ramjade (and others in the IBKR thread). I have been using TSG for more than a year now.

I only invest in SG shares at the moment. So for me the SG commissions and charges matter more, for your case, you may want to take a more holistic view if you want to get exposure in many markets. There is also the possibility of using different brokerages for different markets, I think Ram is using FSM SG for SG counters and TSG for US counters, last time I heard.

In terms of commissions comparison,

TSG: https://www.tradestation-international.com/...ng-commissions/
Moomoo: https://support.futusg.com/en-us/topic118
Tiger Brokers: https://www.tigerbrokers.com.sg/commissions/fees/stocks_etf


1. A few things to note about commissions:

The brokerage business is under intense competition especially in Singapore. New entrants like Moomoo and Tiger Brokers are undercutting existing players' market share (TSG, IBKR, POEMS, Saxo Bank etc.). Hence many will waive minimum commissions and charge low brokerage fees for now. You want to be careful as once they have enough market share they may raise the fees again.

This happened in HK's virtual bank space last year. When I opened Mox Bank account last year, virtually (no pun intended) all virtual banks in HK offer very high deposit rates of 1-2% p.a. to attract customer (for Mox, it's 1% p.a.), then after the customer base stabilized around end of 2020, the deposit rate was cut to 0.65% p.a. this year. Other virtual banks did the same too. So, be careful of this.

These days, firms are not just good at innovating technology, their business/marketing strategy has improved much more than that.

Beware of "platform fees" and charges such as custodian fees, dividend handling charges etc (if applicable). And also, when they claim to "waive" fees temporarily, always assume that that fee will be incurred in future transactions. Free things won't last forever, (there is no such thing as free in this world), and you will top-up your investment some time later, not just invest today and watch your portfolio grow. Minimum fees are always needed to keep the brokerage firms survive to sustain costs. Don't be too naive to think that free AAPL shares will last forever. You want a brokerage firms that serve you well for years to come, assuming that you are a long-term investor.

Of course commission is one thing, user experience is important too. If you find moomoo and Tiger good and easy to use, by all means go ahead. I don't discriminate cheap platforms, but be wary of their business strategy.

2. As for which platform cover more stuffs, IBKR/TSG covered many of them. Since you mainly focus on shares, you should be fine with either of the platforms. However things are different for derivative products.

IBKR/TSG offer the widest coverage so far. Moomoo only offers stocks/ETFs in US, SG and, HK, no derivative products are available for trading. Tiger brokers don't offer options for SGX.

3. Many users complained about the IBKR/TSG interface. laugh.gif It is known to be the least user-friendly as it is geared towards professional settings (used by fund managers, traders etc.). Moomoo, Tiger and TD Ameritrade are retail investor-focused, hence their platform are much simpler for a beginner to understand. For those who use TSG, they will use IBKR's Trader Workstation software instead as TSG's platform is a bit complicated to use. For daily investment needs, IBKR's Trader Workstation software is more than enough. You just need to know a few functions and do some charting if you are interested. You don't have to use all of the software function.

4. For TSG/IBKR, deposit 11 p.m. yesterday, next morning before SG market open at 9 a.m., money already in. It usually appears within one hour to two after the fund is transferred out of your bank account. For first time transfer, expect some more time for verification, maybe an additional hour. For withdrawals, my experience is it's as fast as depositing the money. Take note that IBKR/TSG allow 1 free withdrawal per month only. Subsequent withdrawals will incur charges. Moomoo/Tiger don't have that yet, for now.

5. Not qualified to comment on this since I only have one foreign brokerage account.

Other things to note:

Customer service is also important. My experience with TSG/IBKR has been a pleasant one, although the secure messaging system locked me out of communication with IBKR when their messaging system is down, I managed to keep in touch with TSG throughout those days. TSG has quite a helpful team of customer service reps. And they response within one working day (my experience).

Hope that helps. Others feel free to correct me if I am wrong in any of the info above.

Fair disclosure: I am not a shareholder of Tencent, Futu, Tiger Brokers, IBKR or TSG and have no direct vested business interest with the companies.

This post has been edited by TOS: Apr 24 2021, 09:46 AM
TSwhycanot323
post Apr 26 2021, 08:59 AM

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QUOTE(honsiong @ Apr 23 2021, 05:39 PM)
Wait, Moomoo has higher fees than Tiger? Where is the source?

I am using both. They are nearly identical in brokerage fees, platform fee, forex spread of 0.6%.

Please don’t write off moomoo. Their app and technical execution are stronger than Tiger. Tiger makes you deposit into their account and have you write reference, Moomoo actually opens an escrow account with unique account number for you with DBS!
*
hello sifu, i didnt write off Moomoo... i just share the article i read...
the article even mention Tiger has strong app & technical execution such as web-based login + more trading features , while moomoo only has less.
read this https://thefipharmacist.com/tiger-brokers-vs-moomoo-futu/
from the article ..... "Tiger Brokers has a more affordable pricing structure" "Tiger Brokers has slightly better exchange rates"
please share me if the article is not correct , really didnt mean to write down moomoo rclxub.gif
1) a side question to you... when u buy counter with TSG and when you will buy with MooMoo or even tiger ?


QUOTE(Ramjade @ Apr 23 2021, 08:55 PM)
Moomoo have lower fees than tiger and it's faster, better. Only downside is you need passport to open moomoo. You don't need passport to open tiger.

1. Go count yourself.
https://ringgitfreedom.com/2020/11/13/journ...onal-brokerage/
https://ringgitfreedom.com/2020/12/05/inves...station-global/
Cheapest is pure IBKR at USD 0.35/transaction.
Next is tradestation-ibkr at USD1.50/transaction.
https://www.tradestation-international.com/...ng-commissions/
Moomoo is USD 1.99
https://support.futusg.com/en-us/topic76/h5

2. That you will need to ask moomoo customer service. I don't think they can do futures.
https://support.futusg.com/en-us/category11029/scid11039/h5

3. Moomoo

4. Moomoo provided you use sg bank account.

5. I will always use interactive broker as they are the cheapesr and I already have account with them.

You want even cheaper use webull. But you pay high exchange rate + bank charges as they don't support sg bank account.
*
hello sifu... thanks for all your feedbacks...
i will open TSG for sure now ...

but i am still asking more ques, just want to know why you or others openning moomoo or tiger
1) may i know, when u will use moomoo? for transfer money MYR to SGD ? and again send it to TSG for buy stocks?
2) for the moomoo, the bank DBS part, meaning that i can get a DBS bank account id/pass as well? i can use this bank account for other than moomoo transaction?
3) how many days took for the bank in and withdraw for moomoo/tiger? can bank in thru 3rd party eg transferwise?
4) A question to all: since the account in TSG,MooMoo,Tiger will be custodian account, parking under street name.......... whats your current practice/solution for a if-i-died-case (how pass to your family)?


QUOTE(TOS @ Apr 23 2021, 09:12 PM)
I can't comment much on other platforms since I don't use them. Others will offer a better perspective.

I will share my experience on Tradestation Global. I was introduced to this by Ramjade (and others in the IBKR thread). I have been using TSG for more than a year now.

I only invest in SG shares at the moment. So for me the SG commissions and charges matter more, for your case, you may want to take a more holistic view if you want to get exposure in many markets. There is also the possibility of using different brokerages for different markets, I think Ram is using FSM SG for SG counters and TSG for US counters, last time I heard.

In terms of commissions comparison,

TSG: https://www.tradestation-international.com/...ng-commissions/
Moomoo: https://support.futusg.com/en-us/topic118
Tiger Brokers: https://www.tigerbrokers.com.sg/commissions/fees/stocks_etf
1. A few things to note about commissions:

The brokerage business is under intense competition especially in Singapore. New entrants like Moomoo and Tiger Brokers are undercutting existing players' market share (TSG, IBKR, POEMS, Saxo Bank etc.). Hence many will waive minimum commissions and charge low brokerage fees for now. You want to be careful as once they have enough market share they may raise the fees again.

This happened in HK's virtual bank space last year. When I opened Mox Bank account last year, virtually (no pun intended) all virtual banks in HK offer very high deposit rates of 1-2% p.a. to attract customer (for Mox, it's 1% p.a.), then after the customer base stabilized around end of 2020, the deposit rate was cut to 0.65% p.a. this year. Other virtual banks did the same too. So, be careful of this.

These days, firms are not just good at innovating technology, their business/marketing strategy has improved much more than that.

Beware of "platform fees" and charges such as custodian fees, dividend handling charges etc (if applicable). And also, when they claim to "waive" fees temporarily, always assume that that fee will be incurred in future transactions. Free things won't last forever, (there is no such thing as free in this world), and you will top-up your investment some time later, not just invest today and watch your portfolio grow. Minimum fees are always needed to keep the brokerage firms survive to sustain costs. Don't be too naive to think that free AAPL shares will last forever. You want a brokerage firms that serve you well for years to come, assuming that you are a long-term investor.

Of course commission is one thing, user experience is important too. If you find moomoo and Tiger good and easy to use, by all means go ahead. I don't discriminate cheap platforms, but be wary of their business strategy. 

2. As for which platform cover more stuffs, IBKR/TSG covered many of them. Since you mainly focus on shares, you should be fine with either of the platforms. However things are different for derivative products.

IBKR/TSG offer the widest coverage so far. Moomoo only offers stocks/ETFs in US, SG and, HK, no derivative products are available for trading. Tiger brokers don't offer options for SGX. 

3. Many users complained about the IBKR/TSG interface. laugh.gif It is known to be the least user-friendly as it is geared towards professional settings (used by fund managers, traders etc.). Moomoo, Tiger and TD Ameritrade are retail investor-focused, hence their platform are much simpler for a beginner to understand. For those who use TSG, they will use IBKR's Trader Workstation software instead as TSG's platform is a bit complicated to use. For daily investment needs, IBKR's Trader Workstation software is more than enough. You just need to know a few functions and do some charting if you are interested. You don't have to use all of the software function.

4. For TSG/IBKR, deposit 11 p.m. yesterday, next morning before SG market open at 9 a.m., money already in. It usually appears within one hour to two after the fund is transferred out of your bank account. For first time transfer, expect some more time for verification, maybe an additional hour. For withdrawals, my experience is it's as fast as depositing the money. Take note that IBKR/TSG allow 1 free withdrawal per month only. Subsequent withdrawals will incur charges. Moomoo/Tiger don't have that yet, for now.     

5. Not qualified to comment on this since I only have one foreign brokerage account.

Other things to note:

Customer service is also important. My experience with TSG/IBKR has been a pleasant one, although the secure messaging system locked me out of communication with IBKR when their messaging system is down, I managed to keep in touch with TSG throughout those days. TSG has quite a helpful team of customer service reps. And they response within one working day (my experience).

Hope that helps. Others feel free to correct me if I am wrong in any of the info above.

Fair disclosure: I am not a shareholder of Tencent, Futu, Tiger Brokers, IBKR or TSG and have no direct vested business interest with the companies.
*
hello sifu, very good good info.
i will open a TSG account for sure now.
1) may i know, how you normally transfer/withdraw money to ur TSG? MYBank --> transferwise --> TSG ?
2) i learned something new in your comment... virtual bank. the main purpose for this virtual bank, is to place FD? is it safe, i mean will it get hacked or cabut?
3) A question to all: since the account in TSG,MooMoo,Tiger will be custodian account, parking under street name.......... whats your current practice/solution for a if-i-died-case (how pass to your family)?


This post has been edited by whycanot323: Apr 26 2021, 09:14 AM
TOS
post Apr 26 2021, 12:06 PM

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QUOTE(whycanot323 @ Apr 26 2021, 08:59 AM)
hello sifu, very good good info.
i will open a TSG account for sure now.
1) may i know, how you normally transfer/withdraw money to ur TSG? MYBank --> transferwise --> TSG ?
2) i learned something new in your comment... virtual bank. the main purpose for this virtual bank, is to place FD? is it safe, i mean will it get hacked or cabut?
3) A question to all: since the account in TSG,MooMoo,Tiger will be custodian account, parking under street name.......... whats your current practice/solution for a if-i-died-case (how pass to your family)?

*
I have not reached sifu status laugh.gif Just TOS will do.

To answer you questions:

1. Yes, I use Transferwise and Instarem mainly. I did frequent transfer last year compared to these year because there were plenty of opportunities last year, good counters traded at sharp discount. After that as things stabilized, less transfer is done.

There are other services like Sunway Money too. Refer to this thread: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4857608/+160

2. Virtual banks are just like the typical banks you know, the only thing is, they don't have brick-and-mortar store. Everything is done online, usually via phone. I have a HKID card so I can open HK virtual banks, I am not sure if you have one. If you don't you need to wait for Malaysia or Singapore's virtual banks to start operating, then only you can enjoy their services.

Malaysia's Virtual Bank discussion thread: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4961821 (It's called digital bank here, but the idea is the same.)

The primary benefits of virtual/digital banks are that they offer better FD/deposit rates than traditional banks as they have lower overhead cost. (No need to pay hefty rents for buildings and lower manpower cost). Some banks, based on HK's experience, offer loans and eventually venture into more profitable wealth management products.

As for safety, even visiting a bank to renew FD will risk getting robbed by robbers waiting outside the bank. Digital stuff are safe only if you take good care of your personal devices. There is a chance that your phone will be hacked. So, don't simply install unauthorized apps or unsafe ones etc. This goes into IT security field, I won't comment much here.

3. My plan is continue using custodian account until I accumulate enough money, then switch over to CDS account when I start working in Singapore in the future (by then I will have a SG address). You should mention about your securities account in your will anyway.

Other solutions include:

a. Leave behind your account details/password for the beneficiaries to login and liquidate the securities (require trust and integrity among beneficiaries)
b. Liquidate your holdings gradually towards your old age and move them into safer FD deposits. (This is for dying-of-old-age case.)
c. Transfer to the beneficiaries while you are still alive (require your beneficiaries to have good financial discipline and again integrity)

It is important to remember, for US equity investors, that there will be an estate tax if your estate is greater than 60k USD.

https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloi...dent-aliens.pdf

This post has been edited by TOS: Apr 26 2021, 01:35 PM
wongmunkeong
post Apr 26 2021, 12:33 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Apr 26 2021, 12:06 PM)
I have not reached sifu status laugh.gif Just TOS will do.

To answer you questions:

1. Yes, I use Transferwise and Instarem mainly. I did frequent transfer last year compared to these year because there were plenty of opportunities last year, good counters traded at sharp discount. After that as things stabilized, less transfer is done.

There are other services like Sunway Money too. Refer to this thread: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4857608/+160

2. Virtual banks are just like the typical banks you know, the only thing is, they don't have brick-and-mortar store. Everything is done online, usually via phone. I have a HKID card so I can open HK virtual banks, I am not sure if you have one. If you don't you need to wait for Malaysia or Singapore's virtual banks to start operating, then only you can enjoy their services.

Malaysia's Virtual Bank discussion thread: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4961821 (It's called digital bank here, but the idea is the sane.)

The primary benefits of virtual/digital banks are that they offer better FD/deposit rates than traditional banks as they have lower overhead cost. (No need to pay hefty rents for buildings and lower manpower cost). Some banks, based on HK's experience, offer loans and eventually venture into more profitable wealth management products.

As for safety, even visiting a bank to renew FD will risk getting robbed by robbers waiting outside the bank. Digital stuff are safe only if you take good care of your personal devices. There is a chance that your phone will be hacked. So, don't simply install unauthorized apps or unsafe ones etc. This goes into IT security field, I won't comment much here.

3. My plan is continue using custodian account until I accumulate enough money, then switch over to CDS account when I start working in Singapore in the future (by then I will have a SG address). You should mention about your securities account in your will anyway.

Other solutions include:

a. Leave behind your account details/password for the beneficiaries to login and liquidate the securities (require trust and integrity among beneficiaries) 
b. Liquidate your holdings gradually towards your old age and move them into safer FD deposits. (This is for dying-of-old-age case.)
c. Transfer to the beneficiaries while you are still alive (require your beneficiaries to have good financial discipline and again integrity) 

It is important to remember, for US equity investors, that there will be an estate tax if your estate is huge (greater than 11.18 million USD). Usually for most people this is not an issue (assuming your leftover US shares, ETFs, bonds etc. is less than 11.18 million USD).
*
just to share - when i was with OptionXpress & TDAmeritrade US, i found:
On US IRS estate taxes - under Non-Resident Alien (NRA), ie. not US-resident and not US-citizen:
"...The U.S. imposes a 40% estate tax rate on U.S. assets above a $60,000 exemption threshold on assets of the deceased nonresidents. Foreign estates become subject to U.S. estate taxation with respect to their U.S.-situated assets.

U.S.-situated assets include American real estate, tangible personal property, and securities of U.S. companies. A non-resident’s stock holdings in American companies are also subject to estate taxation..

Certain assets that are exempt from U.S. estate tax include securities that generate portfolio interest, bank accounts not used in connection with a trade or business in the U.S., and insurance proceeds.

The estate of a nonresident alien may deduct from the gross estate the value of property passing to the decedent’s surviving spouse if the spouse is a U.S. citizen or resident alien regardless of whether the spouse lives in the U.S. or abroad. However, if a spouse is also a non-resident alien, the unlimited spouse exemption does not apply...."

https://www.taxesforexpats.com/articles/non...ted-states.html
https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloi...dent-aliens.pdf


When i moved my accounts (forced) to TDAmeritrade SG - i asked TDASG when i kaput, how on estate taxes, response was, in short ".. SG estate laws.."
haven't asked again recently to be sure of current situation though.
TOS
post Apr 26 2021, 01:40 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Apr 26 2021, 12:33 PM)
just to share - when i was with OptionXpress & TDAmeritrade US, i found:
On US IRS estate taxes - under Non-Resident Alien (NRA), ie. not US-resident and not US-citizen:
"...The U.S. imposes a 40% estate tax rate on U.S. assets above a $60,000 exemption threshold on assets of the deceased nonresidents. Foreign estates become subject to U.S. estate taxation with respect to their U.S.-situated assets.

U.S.-situated assets include American real estate, tangible personal property, and securities of U.S. companies. A non-resident’s stock holdings in American companies are also subject to estate taxation..

Certain assets that are exempt from U.S. estate tax include securities that generate portfolio interest, bank accounts not used in connection with a trade or business in the U.S., and insurance proceeds.

The estate of a nonresident alien may deduct from the gross estate the value of property passing to the decedent’s surviving spouse if the spouse is a U.S. citizen or resident alien regardless of whether the spouse lives in the U.S. or abroad. However, if a spouse is also a non-resident alien, the unlimited spouse exemption does not apply...."

https://www.taxesforexpats.com/articles/non...ted-states.html
https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloi...dent-aliens.pdf
When i moved my accounts (forced) to TDAmeritrade SG - i asked TDASG when i kaput, how on estate taxes, response was, in short ".. SG estate laws.."
haven't asked again recently to be sure of current situation though.
*
Yes you are right. Thanks for the correction, 60k USD is for NRA, the 11 million+ exemption is only for domiciled US resident. My bad, I already rectified my earlier post.

As for TDA SG's case, this is what I found:

https://singaporelegaladvice.com/law-articl...duty-singapore/

and estate tax (estate duty) has been removed in SG: https://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/Other-Taxe...ty/Estate-Duty/

So I think no tax on assets in SG brokerage accounts after death for foreign persons. Correct me if I am wrong.




Ramjade
post Apr 26 2021, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(whycanot323 @ Apr 26 2021, 08:59 AM)
hello sifu, i didnt write off Moomoo... i just share the article i read...
the article even mention Tiger has strong app & technical execution such as web-based login + more trading features , while moomoo only has less.
read this https://thefipharmacist.com/tiger-brokers-vs-moomoo-futu/
from the article ..... "Tiger Brokers has a more affordable pricing structure" "Tiger Brokers has slightly better exchange rates"
please share me if the article is not correct , really didnt mean to write down moomoo  rclxub.gif
1) a side question to you... when u buy counter with TSG and when you will buy with MooMoo or even tiger ?


1. From real people experiences (SG investor chat) Moomoo is superior to tiger.
For me I will always use IBKR as I planned to increase it to USD200k and then transfer it over to pure IBKR. I will never buy from tiger or moomoo. I will only use them for free live data. I might use them if they become cheaper than pure IBKR. Right now none of them beat pure IBKR.

QUOTE(whycanot323 @ Apr 26 2021, 08:59 AM)
hello sifu... thanks for all your feedbacks...
i will open TSG for sure now ...

but i am still asking more ques, just want to know why you or others openning moomoo or tiger
1) may i know, when u will use moomoo? for transfer money MYR to SGD ? and again send it to TSG for buy stocks?
2) for the moomoo, the bank DBS part, meaning that i can get a DBS bank account id/pass as well? i can use this bank account for other than moomoo transaction?
3) how many days took for the bank in and withdraw for moomoo/tiger? can bank in thru 3rd party eg transferwise?
4) A question to all: since the account in TSG,MooMoo,Tiger will be custodian account, parking under street name.......... whats your current practice/solution for a if-i-died-case (how pass to your family)? 

1.People open moomoo to get free Apple shares until promo ends. Same reason people open Tiger. Tiger is giving discount on tesla stock/free disney stock, I open tiger for real time price (something which IBKR does not have, they force you to pay for it). I am not paying for it since Tiger and Moomoo are offering it for free.
Malaysian banks -> fintech -> SG bank account (un my own name) -> FAST transfer to IBKR in SGD (for free)-> convert inside IBKR at USD2.00 regardless of amount.
Keep in mind TSG have minimal requirement of USD2500. If you don't have USD2500 in cash or portfolio worth there are inactivy fees. Usually no problem as your portfolio size increases over time.
Once you open TSG, you just login to IBKR and carry out all your transaction from IBKR page. You never deal iwth TSG anymore aside from initial opening account
2. Virtual account. For moomoo use only. You won't get actual DBS account. Only way to get real account is go to SG yourself in person.
3. Malaysian banks -> fintech -> SG bank account (un my own name) -> FAST transfer to tiger or Moomoo.
Some fintech takes 2-3 days. Some fintech within 1 hour done. Some within 10 minutes done.
IBKR takes 2-3 hours
Tiger takes like 30 mins to 1 hour
Moomoo within minutes

I can't comment about withdrawal for tiger or moomoo. But for IBKR is fast. I think max also 1 day. For me I never withdraw my money. It's a one way ticket to IBKR and never come out. I use my emergency fund and whatever money I set aside to fund my life in Malaysia.

3rd party transfer (fintech) to Tiger and Moomoo will be blocked and money return to you. That's why very important to have SG bank account.
4. Give your username and password to trusted family.

QUOTE(whycanot323 @ Apr 26 2021, 08:59 AM)
hello sifu, very good good info.
i will open a TSG account for sure now.
1) may i know, how you normally transfer/withdraw money to ur TSG? MYBank --> transferwise --> TSG ?
2) i learned something new in your comment... virtual bank. the main purpose for this virtual bank, is to place FD? is it safe, i mean will it get hacked or cabut?
3) A question to all: since the account in TSG,MooMoo,Tiger will be custodian account, parking under street name.......... whats your current practice/solution for a if-i-died-case (how pass to your family)?

*
1. See my answer above.
2. You can forget about virtual banks in Malaysia. There is only one which is Maybank MAE sweat.gif . You cannot open virtual banks unless you are in that country working or studying. The one which can open is Transferwise but recently they close down for Malaysians. I am one of the few they didn't close so I still have my virtual bank with transferwise and it's still functioning (receiving foreign money and sending foreign money). No idea why. not complaining. Difference between virtual bank and normal banks are normal bank have lots of branch while digital banks only have one office. Digital banks are bound by same rules as banks so they cannot just cabut. All banks can be hacked. It's only as good as the user. If you simply give out OTP, get ready for it to be hacked. Again unless you are overseas or working or studying in that country, forget about virtual banks accepting you. So don't bother about FD as other country FD give like 0.5%p.a or 0.1%p.a as everyone now cut interest. laugh.gif The only virtual bank you have is Maybank MAE.
3. Give your username and password to trusted family.

Ramjade
post Apr 26 2021, 01:58 PM

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Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(TOS @ Apr 26 2021, 01:40 PM)
Yes you are right. Thanks for the correction, 60k USD is for NRA, the 11 million+ exemption is only for domiciled US resident. My bad, I already rectified my earlier post.

As for TDA SG's case, this is what I found:

https://singaporelegaladvice.com/law-articl...duty-singapore/

and estate tax (estate duty) has been removed in SG: https://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/Other-Taxe...ty/Estate-Duty/

So I think no tax on assets in SG brokerage accounts after death for foreign persons. Correct me if I am wrong.
*
That's why I want to move to pure IBKR SG once I have USD200k. laugh.gif
TSwhycanot323
post Apr 28 2021, 10:54 AM

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320 posts

Joined: Oct 2011


QUOTE(TOS @ Apr 26 2021, 12:06 PM)
I have not reached sifu status laugh.gif Just TOS will do.

To answer you questions:

1. Yes, I use Transferwise and Instarem mainly. I did frequent transfer last year compared to these year because there were plenty of opportunities last year, good counters traded at sharp discount. After that as things stabilized, less transfer is done.

There are other services like Sunway Money too. Refer to this thread: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4857608/+160

2. Virtual banks are just like the typical banks you know, the only thing is, they don't have brick-and-mortar store. Everything is done online, usually via phone. I have a HKID card so I can open HK virtual banks, I am not sure if you have one. If you don't you need to wait for Malaysia or Singapore's virtual banks to start operating, then only you can enjoy their services.

Malaysia's Virtual Bank discussion thread: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4961821 (It's called digital bank here, but the idea is the same.)

The primary benefits of virtual/digital banks are that they offer better FD/deposit rates than traditional banks as they have lower overhead cost. (No need to pay hefty rents for buildings and lower manpower cost). Some banks, based on HK's experience, offer loans and eventually venture into more profitable wealth management products.

As for safety, even visiting a bank to renew FD will risk getting robbed by robbers waiting outside the bank. Digital stuff are safe only if you take good care of your personal devices. There is a chance that your phone will be hacked. So, don't simply install unauthorized apps or unsafe ones etc. This goes into IT security field, I won't comment much here.

3. My plan is continue using custodian account until I accumulate enough money, then switch over to CDS account when I start working in Singapore in the future (by then I will have a SG address). You should mention about your securities account in your will anyway.

Other solutions include:

a. Leave behind your account details/password for the beneficiaries to login and liquidate the securities (require trust and integrity among beneficiaries) 
b. Liquidate your holdings gradually towards your old age and move them into safer FD deposits. (This is for dying-of-old-age case.)
c. Transfer to the beneficiaries while you are still alive (require your beneficiaries to have good financial discipline and again integrity) 

It is important to remember, for US equity investors, that there will be an estate tax if your estate is greater than 60k USD.

https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloi...dent-aliens.pdf
*
Hi TOS,
Regarding instarem and virtual bank thread looks not updated, until 2020 only...
1) So whats the best one to use for sending 10-20k amount from MYR to SGD to TGS? i see the thread mention bigpay is best rate... i got bigpay already. thinking to open instarem or transferwise or sunway ???
2) Digital bank u mentioned actually offer how many % rate for now? ambank is 2.5% for 9months.



QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Apr 26 2021, 12:33 PM)
just to share - when i was with OptionXpress & TDAmeritrade US, i found:
On US IRS estate taxes - under Non-Resident Alien (NRA), ie. not US-resident and not US-citizen:
"...The U.S. imposes a 40% estate tax rate on U.S. assets above a $60,000 exemption threshold on assets of the deceased nonresidents. Foreign estates become subject to U.S. estate taxation with respect to their U.S.-situated assets.

U.S.-situated assets include American real estate, tangible personal property, and securities of U.S. companies. A non-resident’s stock holdings in American companies are also subject to estate taxation..

Certain assets that are exempt from U.S. estate tax include securities that generate portfolio interest, bank accounts not used in connection with a trade or business in the U.S., and insurance proceeds.

The estate of a nonresident alien may deduct from the gross estate the value of property passing to the decedent’s surviving spouse if the spouse is a U.S. citizen or resident alien regardless of whether the spouse lives in the U.S. or abroad. However, if a spouse is also a non-resident alien, the unlimited spouse exemption does not apply...."

https://www.taxesforexpats.com/articles/non...ted-states.html
https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloi...dent-aliens.pdf
When i moved my accounts (forced) to TDAmeritrade SG - i asked TDASG when i kaput, how on estate taxes, response was, in short ".. SG estate laws.."
haven't asked again recently to be sure of current situation though.
*
QUOTE(TOS @ Apr 26 2021, 01:40 PM)
Yes you are right. Thanks for the correction, 60k USD is for NRA, the 11 million+ exemption is only for domiciled US resident. My bad, I already rectified my earlier post.

As for TDA SG's case, this is what I found:

https://singaporelegaladvice.com/law-articl...duty-singapore/

and estate tax (estate duty) has been removed in SG: https://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/Other-Taxe...ty/Estate-Duty/

So I think no tax on assets in SG brokerage accounts after death for foreign persons. Correct me if I am wrong.
*
Hi TOS/MunKeong,
Actually i read twice and still not understand...... althought i can read english LOL bangwall.gif
1) meaning if i use TGS to buy US shares more than 60k usd, i will kena tax ?
2) meaning in SG buy how many k SGD shares also will not get tax?
3) while for malaysia law, we buy shares n earn, need pay tax?




QUOTE(Ramjade @ Apr 26 2021, 01:57 PM)
1. From real people experiences (SG investor chat) Moomoo is superior to tiger.
For me I will always use IBKR as I planned to increase it to USD200k and then transfer it over to pure IBKR. I will never buy from tiger or moomoo. I will only use them for free live data. I might use them if they become cheaper than pure IBKR. Right now none of them beat pure IBKR.
1.People open moomoo to get free Apple shares until promo ends. Same reason people open Tiger. Tiger is giving discount on tesla stock/free disney stock, I open tiger for real time price (something which IBKR does not have, they force you to pay for it). I am not paying for it since Tiger and Moomoo are offering it for free.
Malaysian banks -> fintech -> SG bank account (un my own name) -> FAST transfer to IBKR in SGD (for free)-> convert inside IBKR at USD2.00 regardless of amount.
Keep in mind TSG have minimal requirement of USD2500. If you don't have USD2500 in cash or portfolio worth there are inactivy fees. Usually no problem as your portfolio size increases over time.
Once you open TSG, you just login to IBKR and carry out all your transaction from IBKR page. You never deal iwth TSG anymore aside from initial opening account
2. Virtual account. For moomoo use only. You won't get actual DBS account. Only way to get real account is go to SG yourself in person.
3. Malaysian banks -> fintech -> SG bank account (un my own name) -> FAST transfer to tiger or Moomoo.
Some fintech takes 2-3 days. Some fintech within 1 hour done. Some within 10 minutes done.
IBKR takes 2-3 hours
Tiger takes like 30 mins to 1 hour
Moomoo within minutes

I can't comment about withdrawal for tiger or moomoo. But for IBKR is fast. I think max also 1 day.  For me I never withdraw my money. It's a one way ticket to IBKR and never come out. I use my emergency fund and whatever money I set aside to fund my life in Malaysia.

3rd party transfer (fintech) to Tiger and Moomoo will be blocked and money return to you. That's why very important to have SG bank account.
4. Give your username and password to trusted family.
1. See my answer above.
2. You can forget about virtual banks in Malaysia. There is only one which is Maybank MAE sweat.gif . You cannot open virtual banks unless you are in that country working or studying. The one which can open is Transferwise but recently they close down for Malaysians. I am one of the few they didn't close so I still have my virtual bank with transferwise and it's still functioning (receiving foreign money and sending foreign money). No idea why. not complaining. Difference between virtual bank and normal banks are normal bank have lots of branch while digital banks only have one office. Digital banks are bound by same rules as banks so they cannot just cabut. All banks can be hacked. It's only as good as the user. If you simply give out OTP, get ready for it to be hacked. Again unless you are overseas or working or studying in that country, forget about virtual banks accepting you. So don't bother about FD as other country FD give like 0.5%p.a or 0.1%p.a as everyone now cut interest.  laugh.gif The only virtual bank you have is Maybank MAE.
3. Give your username and password to trusted family.
*
hi Sifu,
thanks for all your input...
1) meaning that i will use all tradings stock in us/sg/china/hk market using TGS, while still go open MooMoo for using the platform live data. --> best n cheapest method
2) yes, i got MAE, but seem no use one. no any benefits since i got maybank real acc. but heard new mymy is coming, not sure.
3) FD is still good for my case, 2/3 of my $ in is FD, so if anydigital bank can get higher FD rate sure i want. only 1/3 is for investment for stocks in MY or soon overseas.
4) whats your comment on fintech for money transfer? need your comment since i want save money .... bigpay/transferwise/instarem/sunway? im new to this also. currently having bigpay nia




TOS
post Apr 28 2021, 11:25 AM

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Joined: Aug 2019
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QUOTE(whycanot323 @ Apr 28 2021, 10:54 AM)
Hi TOS,
Regarding instarem and virtual bank thread looks not updated, until 2020 only...
1) So whats the best one to use for sending 10-20k amount from MYR to SGD to TGS? i see the thread mention bigpay is best rate... i got bigpay already. thinking to open instarem or transferwise or sunway ???
2) Digital bank u mentioned actually offer how many % rate for now? ambank is 2.5% for 9months.

*
1. I would suggest you to compare with other platforms before you perform the transfer. Sometimes TW is better than Instarem, and sometimes it's the other way round. There is no absolute answer as to which platform is the cheapest in terms of transaction costs. Always compare before you transfer, that's the best way. Other sifus will provide you better info on this.

From my experience last year, Instarem is kind of cheaper than Transferwise. But some members observe otherwise.

2. There is no digital bank in Malaysia at the moment. My quote in the previous post was HK's virtual bank. The interest rate in HK is low compared to Malaysia, traditional retail banks offer around 0.001% p.a. for saving accounts (yes, it's 0.001%, not a typo). Virtual banks like Mox offer 0.65% p.a.

You need to wait for digital/virtual banks in Malaysia/SG to start operating in order to know their deposit rates/interest rates.

QUOTE(whycanot323 @ Apr 28 2021, 10:54 AM)
Hi TOS/MunKeong,
Actually i read twice and still not understand...... althought i can read english LOL bangwall.gif
1) meaning if i use TGS to buy US shares more than 60k usd, i will kena tax ?
2) meaning in SG buy how many k SGD shares also will not get tax?
3) while for malaysia law, we buy shares n earn, need pay tax?

*
1. You need to know what is estate/inheritance tax. This is not capital gain tax. The 60k USD limit is imposed for non-US residents like us when we die and our designated (or by law, if you don't have a will) beneficiaries claim our assets.

So, after you die, your son/daughter etc. will claim your assets from your brokerage account. Before IBKR/TSG transfer the money to your son/daughter etc. (or most probably, their lawyer(s) ), they (on behalf of you, since you already died) will need to pay an inheritance/estate tax of 18% - 40% (depending on the amount) of your shares/bonds/ETFs etc. in TSG/IBKR, with the first 60k USD of your assets exempted from being taxable.

2. For now, in Singapore, there is no inheritance/estate tax, even if you buy US shares via say, Moomoo, Tiger or IBKR Singapore. There reason is these brokerage account are domiciled in Singapore, even though they are US companies, or have HQs in US, or have substantial business in the US. So in this case, they follow Singapore's tax law, not US's.

3. Firstly, foreign income is NOT taxable in Malaysia (same is true in Singapore). That means all profits/dividends received from your investments outside of Malaysia is not taxable by LHDN (Inland Revenue Board, IRB, in English).

So all your profits/dividends from US shares/ETFs, Singapore, HK, Taiwan etc., you don't have to declare that in your annual tax filling to LHDN. It doesn't matter which broker or where it is domiciled. It can be domiciled in Malaysia, but as long as income/profits is from outside of Malaysia, then not-taxable.

However, things are different if you trade shares in Malaysia, i.e. Bursa Malaysia. (If it's a source of income for you, then this is taxable, however, if you mostly buy-and-hold, you don't need to declare that.) Exactly how to distinguish between whether this is a source of income is subject to legal dispute. Consult other sifus/LHDN for more info.

Additional info: For US-domiciled brokers, there is also this thing called GSTT, Generation-Skipping Transfer Tax. If you transfer your wealth to grandchild (2 generations below you) or to someone else "not related" to you, you pay another 40% on top of the estate tax paid earlier, also first 60k USD exempted for non-US residents.

See slide no. 9 : https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloi...dent-aliens.pdf

Must be very lucky to be born in Malaysia or Singapore. laugh.gif

This post has been edited by TOS: Apr 28 2021, 11:34 AM
Ramjade
post Apr 28 2021, 02:05 PM

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Joined: Feb 2011


QUOTE(TOS @ Apr 28 2021, 11:25 AM)
1. I would suggest you to compare with other platforms before you perform the transfer. Sometimes TW is better than Instarem, and sometimes it's the other way round. There is no absolute answer as to which platform is the cheapest in terms of transaction costs. Always compare before you transfer, that's the best way. Other sifus will provide you better info on this.

From my experience last year, Instarem is kind of cheaper than Transferwise. But some members observe otherwise.

2. There is no digital bank in Malaysia at the moment. My quote in the previous post was HK's virtual bank. The interest rate in HK is low compared to Malaysia, traditional retail banks offer around 0.001% p.a. for saving accounts (yes, it's 0.001%, not a typo). Virtual banks like Mox offer 0.65% p.a.

You need to wait for digital/virtual banks in Malaysia/SG to start operating in order to know their deposit rates/interest rates.     
1. You need to know what is estate/inheritance tax. This is not capital gain tax. The 60k USD limit is imposed for non-US residents like us when we die and our designated (or by law, if you don't have a will) beneficiaries claim our assets.

So, after you die, your son/daughter etc. will claim your assets from your brokerage account. Before IBKR/TSG transfer the money to your son/daughter etc. (or most probably, their lawyer(s) ), they (on behalf of you, since you already died) will need to pay an inheritance/estate tax of 18% - 40% (depending on the amount) of your shares/bonds/ETFs etc. in TSG/IBKR, with the first 60k USD of your assets exempted from being taxable.   

2. For now, in Singapore, there is no inheritance/estate tax, even if you buy US shares via say, Moomoo, Tiger or IBKR Singapore. There reason is these brokerage account are domiciled in Singapore, even though they are US companies, or have HQs in US, or have substantial business in the US. So in this case, they follow Singapore's tax law, not US's.

3. Firstly, foreign income is NOT taxable in Malaysia (same is true in Singapore). That means all profits/dividends received from your investments outside of Malaysia is not taxable by LHDN (Inland Revenue Board, IRB, in English).

So all your profits/dividends from US shares/ETFs, Singapore, HK, Taiwan etc., you don't have to declare that in your annual tax filling to LHDN. It doesn't matter which broker or where it is domiciled. It can be domiciled in Malaysia, but as long as income/profits is from outside of Malaysia, then not-taxable. 

However, things are different if you trade shares in Malaysia, i.e. Bursa Malaysia. (If it's a source of income for you, then this is taxable, however, if you mostly buy-and-hold, you don't need to declare that.) Exactly how to distinguish between whether this is a source of income is subject to legal dispute. Consult other sifus/LHDN for more info.

Additional info: For US-domiciled brokers, there is also this thing called GSTT, Generation-Skipping Transfer Tax. If you transfer your wealth to grandchild (2 generations below you) or to someone else "not related" to you, you pay another 40% on top of the estate tax paid earlier, also first 60k USD exempted for non-US residents.

See slide no. 9 : https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloi...dent-aliens.pdf

Must be very lucky to be born in Malaysia or Singapore. laugh.gif
*
Now Malaysia looking at trying out capital gain tax. Even Singapore also hinting about it. sad.gif

Malaysia might do it. Singapore not sure.

Ramjade
post Apr 29 2021, 12:17 AM

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whycanot323
QUOTE
Hi TOS,
Regarding instarem and virtual bank thread looks not updated, until 2020 only...
1) So whats the best one to use for sending 10-20k amount from MYR to SGD to TGS? i see the thread mention bigpay is best rate... i got bigpay already. thinking to open instarem or transferwise or sunway ???
2) Digital bank u mentioned actually offer how many % rate for now? ambank is 2.5% for 9months.

1. Use either one of the below
Sunway money/ Transferwise/ Bigpay/ Money Match / Instarem (ranked based on cheapest to most expensive)
The rate changes every few minutes. Load up all 4 on your browser and bigpay on your phone, key in say RM10k and pick the one with the most SGD you will received.
2. You can forget about digital banks in Malaysia. And unless you are working or studying in other country, virtual banks are off limit to us. So you can just forget about virtual banks.

QUOTE
Hi TOS/MunKeong,
Actually i read twice and still not understand...... althought i can read english
1) meaning if i use TGS to buy US shares more than 60k usd, i will kena tax ?
2) meaning in SG buy how many k SGD shares also will not get tax?
3) while for malaysia law, we buy shares n earn, need pay tax?

1. Means if you die, your next of kin needs to pay tax for anything above USD60,000.01. Anything below USD60k is free.
2. There is no capital/dividend/death tax in Singpaore but SG market like shit.
3. Yes if you are doing it full time. If you do it in your free time and you have another job, no tax. Subject to change. Looks possible in the future as there are hints in the newspapers even if you are doing it in your free time.

QUOTE
hi Sifu,
thanks for all your input...
1) meaning that i will use all tradings stock in us/sg/china/hk market using TGS, while still go open MooMoo for using the platform live data. --> best n cheapest method
2) yes, i got MAE, but seem no use one. no any benefits since i got maybank real acc. but heard new mymy is coming, not sure.
3) FD is still good for my case, 2/3 of my $ in is FD, so if anydigital bank can get higher FD rate sure i want. only 1/3 is for investment for stocks in MY or soon overseas.
4) whats your comment on fintech for money transfer? need your comment since i want save money .... bigpay/transferwise/instarem/sunway? im new to this also. currently having bigpay nia

1. You will can get Moomoo only if you have valid passport (not expired). Otherwise, forget it.
2. Mymy is not a virtual bank. A virtual bank means you can received and send foreign currency like a normal bank account. Only ones I know of are Transferwise (they terminated it for some Malaysians, I still have mine don't know why), Revolut.
Mymy is just converting money inside the app.
3. Forget FD. Go use Versa. Last was 2.46%p.a and your money is not even locked up. Heard the latest rate is around 2.1%.a
4. Use either one of the below
Sunway money/ Transferwise/ Bigpay/ Money Match / Instarem (ranked based on cheapest to most expensive from repeated use)
The rate changes every few minutes. Load up all 4 on your browser and bigpay on your phone, key in say RM10k and pick the one with the most SGD you will received.
I got no favorites. I use whoever can give me the most foreign currency per ringgit (use RM10k and see which one give the most foreign currency)

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