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 Military Thread V28

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Lampuajaib
post Sep 18 2021, 09:28 AM

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QUOTE(jwst1313 @ Sep 18 2021, 09:20 AM)
As long as the vessel ready on time. I wonder you are from bustead or not. If you are from spore, sorry for my error info.

But for bustead do you know you show a picture of LCS 3100 Tons gowind when you lauch 3rd LMS 700 tons gun boat?  Two entirely different vessel la
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I agree on that...
LCS is a repetition of NGPV, it is a failed one whatever how they finish the ship period.
Lampuajaib
post Sep 18 2021, 09:37 AM

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QUOTE(jwst1313 @ Sep 18 2021, 08:58 AM)
PT PAL yesterday sign for 2 Arrowhead 140 Multi Purpose Frigate 5700 tons (both Air Defence and Anti Submarine capable)

32  Essm on MK 41 VLS
Ciws
Either Harpoon advanced
One Merlin Heli
Torpedoes

Built in Indonesia yard between  PT PAL and designer Babcock UK

Arrowhead 140 is the similar design to Type 31 UK

user posted image
user posted image
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How ID is building their local defence capability is much better than what TNI gets.
It is understandable because ID put heaviily their defence on their own hand. Building locally is very important to them.
PT PAL will be the most capable shipyard in the region.

This post has been edited by Lampuajaib: Sep 18 2021, 09:40 AM
Lampuajaib
post Sep 18 2021, 06:23 PM

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QUOTE(jwst1313 @ Sep 18 2021, 01:48 PM)
Well PT PAL has proven themselves again and again. They built many 7,000 to 10,000 tons support ships to Asean countriez and even to TLDM.

Talk to Indonesia engineer on  a subject and then you talk the same subject to a Malaysian engineer. See the difference .

PT PAL and ST Marine Engineering. The rest No.
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It is not the engineer fault.
There are many excellent engineer in BNS, but what can they do?
Lampuajaib
post Sep 18 2021, 06:46 PM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Sep 18 2021, 05:30 PM)
PT PAL Indonesia just officially disclosed the Babcock Arrowhead 140 specification for the Indonesian Navy. The weapons especially the missiles will be FFBNW.

Engine
• Main Engine 4 x 9100 kW
• Max speed 28 knot MCR
• Endurance 18 knot 9.000 NM

Armament
• MR VLS 3 x 8 cell SAM
• LR VLS 4 x 8 cell SAM
• LR VLS 2 x 8 cell SSM

https://pal.co.id/2021/09/publikasi/news-be...fregate-kemhan/
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Just as Martadinata class...build the platform first and installed the weapon system later which is now already installed.
The different with Kedah is Fit For But Never With

Lampuajaib
post Sep 18 2021, 06:51 PM

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QUOTE(alexz23 @ Sep 18 2021, 01:56 PM)
.
given a good design, Indonesia can build any ships.

but locally designed ships? the KCR60 is not something i consider as a good ship. The concept of that tank boat is idiosyncratic at best.
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I'll take KCR 60 than LMS anytime....at least the price is right.
Lampuajaib
post Sep 18 2021, 09:25 PM

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QUOTE(alexz23 @ Sep 18 2021, 08:31 PM)
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I wouldn't choose any of them.

the latest KCR batch 3 number 5 and 6 which is fully armed cost Rupiah 800 miliar or around 56 million dollars each.

https://money.kompas.com/read/2019/08/02/16...-rp-1-6-triliun
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Like I said at least the price is right...
$55 mio is aleeady a bargain considered all the weapon system installed ready to combat.

Lampuajaib
post Sep 19 2021, 07:21 AM

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QUOTE(alexz23 @ Sep 18 2021, 11:10 PM)
user posted image

Tun Fatimah cost less than the LMS, while being as big as the Kedah class.
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If your cosideration only on size then another option is the PT PAL Makassar class LPD cost only $45 Mio.
It is 122m ship with amphibious capability plus 2 units LCU inside the ship.

This post has been edited by Lampuajaib: Sep 19 2021, 07:22 AM
Lampuajaib
post Sep 19 2021, 07:30 AM

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QUOTE(alexz23 @ Sep 19 2021, 01:16 AM)
gowind expensive?

Brazil is paying for souped up meko a100 similar to TLDM Kedah class for 500 million euro each!!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamandar%C3%A9-class_frigate
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You can not compare this ship to Kedah directly..
Its length only 107m but the weight is 3500 tons. It is heavier than 115m formidable class. Many things they put on it.

But I preffer type 31 than this.
Lampuajaib
post Sep 19 2021, 07:42 AM

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QUOTE(alexz23 @ Sep 19 2021, 12:57 AM)
Fittting ESSM will need highly capable 3D radar at least similar in performance to the SMART-S mk2 on the gowind, CMS like the tacticos + other stuff. That would push the price to at least 250 million dollars if you are putting NSM also.

But what for? Can a 22 knot 1860 tonne ship like Tun fatimah do anything in a war scenario? Can it keep up sailing with the Gowinds at 28 knots? Or can it do FAC tactics in melacca straits, pulau banggi and tawau waters? MCM process needs large space and crane to carry unmanned boats and unmanned underwater vehicles. If you want a Tun fatimah to do MCM, probably it is to be modified specially for that purpose only.

This is damen proposal for MCM ship based on its OPV hull

user posted image

in my opinion just let OPVs be OPVs.
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60m ship is big enough for MCM, why need a bigger one?
Lampuajaib
post Sep 19 2021, 09:08 AM

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QUOTE(jwst1313 @ Sep 19 2021, 08:07 AM)
I was not sure earlier when thus question pop up.

If it is 3500 tons with missiles and full radar specs then 500 mil is not suprising.

The French La Fayatte Class Frigate (in which Singapore Formidable Class design based on) , in 3800 tons

Hence it is only 300 tons difference between the French La Fayatte Class and The Brazul Meko. So 500 mil make sense.

For me I too prefer Type 31 or Babcock Arrowhead AH 140. Understand that Indonesia version is the Air defense frigate of min 5,000 tons. 32 VLS ESSM on MK 41 Launcher. AH 140 can accomodate one huge heli above 10 tons to Merlin Size (AW 101)

Well the british built Lekiu Kelas at Yarrow shipyard model F2000 corvettes serve us well from 1995 until 2021 and still sailing now. 26 years after service. However both has to undergo SLEP in 2014/2015 to lengthen the service to 2030. From 2021 to 2030 is 9 uears. This mean both has to serve for 30 years

The  british yards built pretty good vessels. I rather pay additional 25% and they get the job done  to specs on time.

What have our politicions done to our Navy ? Each time failure and failure.
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Others bought Multi Role Combat but LCS is Multi Role Benefit (LTAT, politician and RMN). Even to build a Multi Role Combat is very hard, no wonder LCS is failed.

Lampuajaib
post Sep 19 2021, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Sep 19 2021, 09:52 AM)
The Indonesian MoD is in talk negotiating for the procurement of another type frigate for General Purpose (GP) role.

Swipe for more pic.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTWFwzVBhN5/
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My tought is...
ID is collecting all 5K-6K ton frigate, exploring what benefit they can get before they decide which one or two can give most benefit for them not only for TNI but their local marine industry too.

This post has been edited by Lampuajaib: Sep 19 2021, 10:28 AM
Lampuajaib
post Sep 20 2021, 05:46 PM

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QUOTE(ayanami_tard @ Sep 20 2021, 04:53 PM)
pic below is Malaysian made LST, made by sarawak's shin yang shipbuilding for UAE navy (they ordered 3 and shin yang already delivered  with the third ship otw) So if simply lst (or even small lpd) boleh je local shipbuilder buat

user posted image

pastu tetiba ada pulak pihak nk sailang shin yang...😂😂

user posted image
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Shin Yang is very smart.....they sell a RoRo Ferry which is called LST. Pak Arab tak kesah pun.....hahahaha
Lampuajaib
post Sep 20 2021, 05:59 PM

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QUOTE(Raddus @ Sep 20 2021, 04:25 PM)
The largest can consider may be the FREMM no need for those large agis DDG

Btw Indonesia serious on FREMM frigate/destroyer?
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Looking at ID frigate van speijk class that already 60 years old. There is no other way they have to replace it.
I think their initial plan was replaced by sigma 10514 which already locally built 2 units.

I think they have changed the plan with 140m long ship to protect Natuna.
Unlike MY who open tender, ID directly makes official approach to many shipbuilders and negotiate how they will work together building the frigate.



Lampuajaib
post Sep 20 2021, 06:05 PM

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QUOTE(ayanami_tard @ Sep 20 2021, 06:02 PM)
makassar lpd oso use ferry design le
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Yes....even Arrowhead based on Iver which is based on Absalon with a RoRo deck
Lampuajaib
post Sep 20 2021, 07:45 PM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Sep 20 2021, 06:32 PM)
But don't worries sigma fans, Seem RMN want to spend 4 billion for 8 sigma Corvette this malaysian plan
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Really?
I think it is not going to happen unless LCS is officially setled.
Why sigma corvette?

Lampuajaib
post Sep 21 2021, 07:31 AM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Sep 20 2021, 08:28 PM)
*The gov like ID seem interested to have multi agencies using the same equipment and Damen is likely in the leads since they are building tun Fatimah. If next year this proof to be the case, then whatever ship MMEA going to buy for their mothership is going to be the navy ship next MP.

Tun Fatimah is a corvette size ship and with price tag RM500 mio it can be armed as corvette.
QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Sep 20 2021, 08:28 PM)
Hishamuddin recent statement that they going to order 8 LMS batch 2 in 2022, 2 MRSS in 2024, and 6 NGPV in 2026.

If the next batch LMS will be a corvette why there should be a plan for 6 NGPV which is also a corvette?
If there will be 2 types of corvette no problem actually but it is better if installed with the same weapon system.
QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Sep 20 2021, 08:28 PM)
For 500 millions a piece for a ship the size of Kedah/tun Fatimah. It has to at least have a missiles. But then again we do have a proud tradition of paying high price for a gunboat.so who knows.

Your guess is as good as mine
QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Sep 20 2021, 08:28 PM)
As for the LCS, at least 2 are in the very advance stages pending sea trial. So ordering new ship after the sea trial won't be much of a controversy i guess.
With RM3 biliion addition, it is obvious the plan is to finish 2 units LCS only. The rest 4 units may be abandoned or next next next RMK. The longer the waiting the less possible the rest 4 units will be finished.

This post has been edited by Lampuajaib: Sep 21 2021, 08:14 AM
Lampuajaib
post Sep 21 2021, 07:52 AM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Sep 21 2021, 07:38 AM)
I notice that ID variant will be a modified/customized one.
Any detail on that?

This post has been edited by Lampuajaib: Sep 21 2021, 07:53 AM
Lampuajaib
post Sep 21 2021, 07:50 PM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Sep 21 2021, 07:26 PM)
It is certainly for AAW role.

Oh...5 years to complete for 2 ships. So, if there is Fremm contract then how long PT PAL will finish then all?

OTOH.....if MY interested to buy type 31 then let the British build it. Don't let any local shipyard try to build it.

Lampuajaib
post Sep 22 2021, 08:03 AM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Sep 22 2021, 07:36 AM)
Nice close up pic of newly converted RMAF CN-235 MPA at PTDI facility. Credit to Bayu.

user posted image

https://www.instagram.com/p/CUFaV33p16H/
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I see radar under the belly...RMAF paid some extra money to upgrade from MSA to MPA?
Lampuajaib
post Sep 22 2021, 08:07 AM

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QUOTE(Frozen_Sun @ Sep 21 2021, 04:57 PM)
I'm not sure about choosing US-made missiles. Better stick to European missiles.
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How about Teseo mk2..maybe there will be VLS version



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