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 Roof Heat Insulation, How would contractor install?

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TSDrian
post Mar 29 2021, 12:52 AM, updated 5y ago

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Hi all,

Some questions for people who have done their roof insulation /radiant barrier after their renovation.

Radiant Barrier

1.) How would the workers install the radiant barrier below the roof tiles. I've checked my attic , doesn't seem to have a place to step on. (See pictures attached)

Insulation
Plan to use rockwool or Cellulose.
1.)How to handle places like downlight openings? rockwool you can cut to avoid, how about cellulose?
2.)Is rockwool meant to be used exposed such as in the attic? Wouldn't dust accumulate ono top of the rockwool? (My attic is already quite dusty)
3.)Anyone here did another layer of plaster ceiling so that the rockwool would be sandwiched instead of exposed?
4.) I notice that the plaster ceiling in my place is supported by those aluminium strips (see picture). Would that be able to support rockwool?



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TSDrian
post Mar 29 2021, 01:52 AM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Mar 29 2021, 01:35 AM)
For (1) things ljke Radenshield https://shopee.com.my/Monier-Radenshield-Do...6018.7969103304 see the diagram there, it is below the support battens. To mount foil which is lightweight, either use another set of horizontal batten to support it or just mount it to existing vertical battens.

Reflecting most of the heat back is important. Rockwool used to limit the heat transfer downwards. Rockwool is heavy stuff as the name suggests. So it can be used below radenshield but still supported by the new set of battens..density of 40kgm 60kgm 80kgm anyhow also heavy lah.
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I plan to use rockwool on the ceiling and not on the roof, which means putting on top of the plaster ceiling which is being supported by the aluminium strip. Do you think it can support rockwool weight.(see pic)



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TSDrian
post Mar 29 2021, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Mar 29 2021, 02:25 PM)
[attachmentid=10824817]

Use radenshield sheet is the lightest and more cost effective way already reduce 80-90% of the transmitted IR coz it reflect back into the roof tile.
As these foil sheet will have plenty of mounting to stick to existing strong batten the roof will not collapse lah.

Rockwool heavy I think one meter sq coverage adding on 3kg every meter sq area even at the lightest 40kg/m3 density which will be a question whether existing plaster ceiling will collapse or not.
The plaster ceiling is held on by few tiny drywall screws into the thin aluminum mounting batten only. Need further reinforcements.

As I see if that is the real pic, the roof using cement roof tiles already quiet enough (not zinc roof or plastic roof) so you don't need to put rockwool for sound insulation. Rockwool if you insist to do, the roof joists (flat part where people can walk on) need to enhance summore and link up, maybe with a new set of those "plaster ceiling aluminum batten" specifically to support the rockwool only, INDEPENDENT of existing plaster ceiling. The existing plaster ceiling will not tahan the weight of the rockwool well. Later middle of the night the paper liner of gypsum board breaks at the screw head holding it up (which is the only point load supporting the weight of the gypsum board itself, its OK for its own weight but it is not designed for additional weight) and kaboom downwards.
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I plan to do both radiant barrier and insulation, insulation is so that my aircond does not need to work that hard. Currently on a hot afternoon , my aircond is always at full power and it is unable to bring down the temperature. I think the best it could do was 28-29C .
Upon checking to my surprise the plaster ceiling was 36-38c, so plaster ceiling is pretty a bad insulator and that's the reason why I wanted to do it at the ceiling. Even if I had radiant barrier , and with the air cond on, I'm still absorbing heat from the attic as there is a temperature difference.
That's the reason for both radiant barrier at roof and insulator at ceiling.

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TSDrian
post Oct 14 2021, 06:05 PM

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Would like to share the outcome of the installation, I used a double sided bubble radiant barrier and then 2 months ago installed a solar fan

Before:-
Plaster Ceiling :- 38.4c, Roof tiles:- 55C, air cond power :- 900-1000w.

With this I estimate attic temperature to be around 40-44c, going up to the room is like a sauna..

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After:- Radiant Barrier only
Plaster Ceiling :- 32-33c, Roof tiles:- 36-38C, air cond power :- 400-450W.
A radiant barrier really works, a must have. Made a huge difference in room temperature.
At the same time I started putting temperature sensor at my attic, external (outside my window) and my room to log the temperature.
I notice around 2c difference between external temperature and the attic temperature.
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After:- Radiant Barrier + solar fan
Installed a solar fan so it would turn on roughly 8am to maybe 6- 6:30pm. Made a small difference, temperature now within 0.5c compared to external temperature.
Also integrated all in home assistant , to log the temperature and air cond power. Small savings in air cond power (maybe around 50w on average?)


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This post has been edited by Drian: Oct 14 2021, 06:11 PM
TSDrian
post Oct 14 2021, 10:09 PM

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QUOTE(tony_mw @ Oct 14 2021, 07:48 PM)
Can share the brand of your raden shield?
I'm considering to install the Monier AL+FX series but still want to survey around and see what I can get with lower price. sweat.gif
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Search for foillaminate2020 in shopee

I'm using BB238FR-10, dual layer foil , air bubble so there is some insulation in the middle

TSDrian
post Oct 15 2021, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Oct 15 2021, 09:47 AM)
1st I choose for this tile side insulation. But later decide not.

As the insulation is too thin for effectiveness. It blocks the airflow between tile and traps the inner roof hot air from going out.

So I decide to DIY insulate the ceiling. Which is what I feel more directly affects me from the room side.

The ceiling is the most heat generate for the room as the ceiling sq ft is as big as the room floor.

Use the foam spray for the insulation. Brought a few box to try on my working room. Brought from shopee.

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The foam expands about an inch thick. But if you want thicker, just spray another layer. The thicker, the more heat insulated. Spray some water before and after the foam. It help to expand the foam more.

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It is a fast process and dry about 4-5hr. The next day, you are able to feel the difference.

Here is the result of the temperature difference inside the room without an aircon.

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I can increase the aircon temperature to 29°C and it already feels cool. And maintain at 29°C for the whole day even it really hot outside. 

The left panel is the actual room temperature near the battery. (below the cabinet)  And the aircon remote temperature setting. I never get the same reading before that.

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That saves my bill a lot when work from home.
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Did you vaccuum before putting the foam? I have glasswool but I look at the top so dusty.



TSDrian
post Oct 15 2021, 04:49 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Oct 15 2021, 11:09 AM)
Yes. I vacuum clean the ceiling 1st.

Then spray with water before foaming.

Is the glasswool hazard to health?
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Using this. I see so many glasswool you tube video. I guess you just need to wear mask when installing.
http://www.ecowool.com.my/ecowool-detail.a...classic_blanket
TSDrian
post Oct 18 2021, 10:36 AM

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QUOTE(syapl @ Oct 18 2021, 08:35 AM)
Hi can you share more photo for the after installed bubble foil? Wanna know how you install the foil, whether is just take off the tile and lay on the wood, thanks
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just lay on top of the wood below roof tiles , no need to remove roof tiles. Radiant barrier cannot touch the roof tiles. Need to have air gap.

If you take an iron and put a radiant barrier between you and your hand , you won't feel hot. If the radiant barrier touches the iron , it will immediately feel hot due to the heat conduction, so you must leave an air gap.

This post has been edited by Drian: Oct 18 2021, 10:37 AM
TSDrian
post Oct 18 2021, 10:37 AM

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Look at post 7 for example

This post has been edited by Drian: Oct 18 2021, 10:39 AM
TSDrian
post Oct 18 2021, 01:55 PM

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QUOTE(syapl @ Oct 18 2021, 01:12 PM)
user posted image
you put on top of the wood as i draw in the photo?
Because i cant see any other support under the tiles, if does not want to remove the tile and lay on
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Look at blue arrow
staple radiant barrier to the blue arrow wood.
The thickness of the wood act as air gap.
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TSDrian
post Oct 18 2021, 02:01 PM

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QUOTE(maxguy @ Oct 18 2021, 01:18 PM)
although roof tile with aluminum shield but feel no different, so better save money for aircond bills.

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This is roof tile or what duno how to see your picture , dunno which is ceiling which is roof tile>

It's a huge difference for me. I got before and after data and sensors.

Also did you measure before and after? did they install at roof tiles or at ceiling?
Your brochure shows it install at ceiling.
Also did you make sure that there is an air gap between radiant barrier and roof tiles. No air gap -useless.





This post has been edited by Drian: Oct 18 2021, 02:03 PM

 

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