If I buy say RM500 every month, will I get charged 5.5% sales charge every month?
This post has been edited by kmarc: Jan 3 2010, 11:24 AM
Public Mutual, PM/PB series fund
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 Jan 3 2010, 11:23 AM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak   
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I just signed up for Public bank small cap fund. Quite good dividends every year. Anybody has any opinion on this?
If I buy say RM500 every month, will I get charged 5.5% sales charge every month? This post has been edited by kmarc: Jan 3 2010, 11:24 AM |
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Jan 3 2010, 02:49 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(wodenus @ Jan 3 2010, 11:25 AM) Why now? Errmmmm, I'm not an expert in stocks so I'm thinking of letting the experts do it. The 8-10% dividend per year is nett, if I'm not mistaken. Even in stocks, I'm currently only accumulating REITs. Don't dare buy high risk stocks except for that occasional gorenging!!!  QUOTE(thenightcrusader @ Jan 3 2010, 12:51 PM) Smallcap fund has good dividends but let's not forget capital growth as well. It's heavily invested (99.9% of NAV) in the country. Hence, the fund performance will be greatly affected by the local economic conditions. Remember, pass performance is not an indication of future performance. hence, the dividends may be good some years and average in some. I see. From what the guy told me, the charges would be negligible if compared to the returns. That's what I understand.yes, you'll be charged 5.5%/ month. QUOTE(epalbee3 @ Jan 3 2010, 01:18 PM) Only 5.5% one time entry fee and 1.5% yearly management fee. The 5.5% one time entry fee is only if you buy once right? If you buy every month, then you'll have to pay 5.5% for each "buy" wor......There are goods and bads investing yourself and through mutual fund. For small capital companies, I think it is better for mutual company to build portfolio for us as we are not expert and have no time to review all their performances. And we don't know when to run as we don't have the first news. Somemore, brokerage fee is not cheap, if you do 20 times in a year, it will sum up become 5% already. If you choose a good mutual company and good manager, then you should save yourself from thinking a lot. But if you are stock experts, you can play yourself. Yes, that's what I'm thinking. We ikan bilis stock players are usually the last to get any news. By the time we react, the stock price would have jumped or dropped. Fund managers would probably get the news faster and can react faster...... right? |
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Jan 3 2010, 03:21 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(jasonkwk @ Jan 3 2010, 03:08 PM) correct if i am wrong.You are not charged every month, you are charged everytime u buy unit form the fund. Yeah, I understand that. Our forumers were replying based on what I mentioned, buying regularly every month.the 5.5% work like this: everytime u buy unit from the mutual fund, 5.5% will be deducted from the money u put it. Let say first time , u put in 1K ,945 will be used to buy unit. 55 will be deducted as charges.second time , u put in 100, 94.5 will be used to buy unit at prevailing price. If u buy RM 500 every month , 472.5 will be used to buy unit. In a year time, you would have lost 330(66% of your RM500).After all the 5.5% , you still have 1.5% management fee per annum. (472.5X12X0.985=5584.95). To break even , the fund have to make at least 8% return to cover all the charges. So, it is "sales charge of 5.5%" on EVERY "buy" you make.  Yeah, now that you pointed that out, the yearly charge would be "sales charge" + "management charge" = 5.5% + 1.5% = 7%!!!!! Come to think about it, that is high!!!! Hmmm.... if you buy only one time e.g. 10k, it would be 5.5% initial charge and subsequent 1.5% every year.However, if you buy say 10k yearly, that would be 7% every year!!!!  Like what wodenus asked, that means they have to make at least 7% + 3.25% to beat FD???? Having said that, the representative showed me true figures of clients who profited from the fund. If I'm not mistaken, the initial "deposit" was already doubled by 7-8 years........ This post has been edited by kmarc: Jan 3 2010, 03:37 PM |
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Jan 3 2010, 03:46 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(jasonkwk @ Jan 3 2010, 03:28 PM) @lwb He's not my PM. I just met him yesterday at the supermarket where the PM booth is!!! I just sign one form and is supposed to go to Public bank this week to open account (I think) and make the necessary arrangements to buy the fund. Was thinking of putting in 10k as an initial "deposit" and then RM500 every month. Now that I think about the 7.0% yearly charge, it makes me think twice.doubt any honest PM agent will tell you that. So now u are at the crossroad, do you want to share 7% of wealth every year to your PM agent and PM in exchange of their service. This you have to decide yourself. @woodenus the current fd rate is 2.5% per annum.If economy pick up. the fd-rate may increase.the fund have to take further risk to break even. @kmarc past result does not indicate future performance.Your PM is misleading you,sorry to say.I would not care if the fund make 1000% return for the past 10 years.What I am certain I will lost 7% of my wealth to PM for the next 10 years. Why I want to go into this small cap fund? It is because the past returns looks good and hopefully future returns are the same. Besides the stock market, would there be any other investment instruments that can beat this fund? This post has been edited by kmarc: Jan 3 2010, 03:48 PM |
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Jan 3 2010, 03:55 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(lwb @ Jan 3 2010, 03:51 PM) that's why if you have alot of money.. i mean, really alot of money.. eg. those that instantaneously make you a mutual gold (elite) member status kind.. you'll have to buy into pm in a shrewd/smart way.. Errr... I don't think I have that kind of money la. Mutual gold needs how much? or else, pmutual will have additional monies for their annual dinner, thanks partly to this sort of commissions.. (and of course, not forgetting the fortunate pm agents who brokered that deal for you).. imagine.. $500k initial investment can generate a commission of $27,500! (i'd definitely like to stand at the receiving end of that payout too for making you fill-in & sign 5 copies of forms *lol*)  Plan to start off with 10k first.  Errrrmmmm.... how to buy into pm in a shrewd/smart way? Pray tell!!! |
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Jan 3 2010, 04:13 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(lwb @ Jan 3 2010, 03:56 PM) if you've diligently invested the same sum of money over a period of time.. say, you've managed to accumulated the $500k over 5-year period.. you would've cost you nearly the same $27,500 of sales commissions accrued to the fortunate pm agents.. i said nearly because.. over the time period, if trends can be of a good reflective use.. fees/commission will eventually go down.. if you want to find out more about mutual gold (which their benefits are getting less and less over the years), you can read about them via their webpage at pmutual.. hear it from the horses' mouth, ya? Added on January 3, 2010, 4:08 pmjasonkwk, ask your agent.. he/she has a code, right? ask him/her what '99' is.. if you're unable to get an answer from them, let me kown.. i'll tell you (although i've mentioned it here before)  |
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Jan 3 2010, 04:18 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(howszat @ Jan 3 2010, 04:13 PM) Whether you buy one time or 20 times, the sales charge is a one-off charge of 5.5%. It is not recurring yearly unlike the management fee of 1.5% which is a yearly charge. I understand that. That is provided your final amount is the same e.g. 10k one time or RM500 each month until 10k total.To use your example of 10K. The sales charge is 5.5%. scenario 1: if you stay invested for 5 years, the yearly equivalent sales charge is 5.5 / 5 = 1.1% per annum. The total effect yearly charge is 1.1 + 1.5 = 2.5% per annum. scenario 2: if you stay invested for 10 years, the yearly equivalent sales charge is 5.5 / 10 = 0.55% per annum. The total effective yearly charge is 0.55 + 1.5 = 2.05% per annum. The longer you stay invested, the lower the effective sales charge per annum. Whether you go for monthly or lump-sum investments, the effect of sales charge is practically the same. However, if I buy RM500 every month for 10 years, the service charge would be RM500 x 12 x 10 years x 5.5%. Right? |
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Jan 3 2010, 04:29 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(lwb @ Jan 3 2010, 04:19 PM) fuuoo.. amortization of cost. that's a nice way to see it (but i would rather marked it to market and realized the cost in the same financial year and keep the rest of the yearsss.. clean) Errrmmmmm.... you mean the shrewd way to buy PM is through armortization of cost? I'm not in the financial field so I don't know what it means (even after googling) but it's a nice way to look at it.. i wonder if we can equate sales charges/commission as a sort of deduction of our income tax as agent fees? (how nice if we're able to do that.. lhdn more motivated investors, going by such rulling).. just like how i can deduct an agent fee from a rental(property) Added on January 3, 2010, 4:22 pmyes, you've got it correct!! just multiply the total invested amount with the commission charges (regardless of period invested) try not to complicate a simple issue.. (if you throw in amortization, it starts to get creative and thus confusing *lol*) !!!!So what's '99'? I have always been put off by the service charge and that's the reason I have not bought any unit trust yet. Just that the PM small cap fund "looks" interesting. One day I will write a guide on "Unit trust" and you can be my consultant.........   |
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Jan 3 2010, 04:40 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(lwb @ Jan 3 2010, 04:34 PM) sorry the amortization is referring to something else.. Ok. Gonna call him tomorrow!!!talk to an agent and ask them about code 99.. if they're not telling you, i will (fair?) hint - agents are doing too! Added on January 3, 2010, 4:38 pmi think i see your point from your perspective.. you're correct by the very factors you include in, to substantiate those point.. i think what i use is, a different sets of factors.. and because of it, we have a differing outcome. i see you view.. |
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Jan 3 2010, 04:55 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(wodenus @ Jan 3 2010, 04:41 PM) Code 99 usually means "we just got hit by something we don't understand and shouldn't have happened... make sure the patient/customer/client doesn't know that and panic and make things worse while we figure out what happened" Thanx for the clarification. PS. A lot of businesses use that  In the end, it is like what you said. If you have 100k, where do you want to "park" it. That's my question (although I don't have that much spare cash!!!) All are investment tools to increase your wealth and overcome inflation. If mutual funds were bad, why are there so many? I will make further clarifications with my agent. You all have been a great help. Just one last question. If I buy the PM smallcap fund online (after the initial registration), I will still get charged 5.5% and my agent still get the commission right? Added on January 3, 2010, 4:56 pm QUOTE(howszat @ Jan 3 2010, 04:27 PM) 500 x 12 x 10 = 60000 Yup, that's what I mean! 60000 x 5.5% = PS: Is it NOT 12 x 10 x 5.5 = 660% if that's what you are saying. This post has been edited by kmarc: Jan 3 2010, 04:57 PM |
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Jan 3 2010, 07:28 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(gark @ Jan 3 2010, 06:11 PM) In mutual fund, the dividends are not actual earnings unlike EPF or stocks. If the mutual fund declare dividend, the cost of the dividend is subtracted from the NAV, so by paying you cash, you get lower NAV. It all comes to square one, as the dividend you received from UT comes out of your own pocket. Also some UT pay more dividend than it's actual earnings to keep the UT 'popular'. Evaluating UT via dividend payout is not effective. In fact i would prefer the UT not to have any dividends. Yeah, that's another minus point. The dividend given out will be reflected by a lower NAV, just like stocks.5.5% sales charged is calculated for the total amount of money invested AND reinvested, basically for any 'buy' or 'switch' transaction. Also you may not use the 1.5% as a guideline as there are many more charges levied like transaction cost and trustee cost, admin fee and etc which will bring the cost to near 1.6%-1.8%%. Always read the financial accounts and prospectus before you invest. (FYI I also own Public Smallcap) So how then? Is buying unit trust good or not? Cool! You have smallcap? How's your return so far? Added on January 3, 2010, 7:30 pm QUOTE(wirelessdude @ Jan 3 2010, 07:26 PM) Why would you have to choose? Personally, I think it's wiser to NOT put all your eggs in one basket ...especially this year, when the market's already ran up a lot and interest rates are poised to be raised (i.e. bonds are also not safe). Which fund is that? 100k to 113k over 2Q? That's good leh..... I bought RM100k of PM funds in 2Q last year and my total's now about RM113k - so I've already made back my sales fees. But I've also placed RM50k in MYR FD, and RM120k in AUD FD in case our gomen somehow screws up with some stupid new policy. The thing I like about PM is that it's a very established company, most of their funds are doing well, and I can do the switching myself online. This post has been edited by kmarc: Jan 3 2010, 07:30 PM |
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Jan 3 2010, 09:11 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(wirelessdude @ Jan 3 2010, 07:37 PM) I split them equally into Public Australia Equity Fund, Public China Select Fund and Public Far East Select Fund. And I switched them in and out to/from Public Islamic Bond Fund. I see. I'm not familiar with any funds so I think I'll just stick to the one introduced to me..... the smallcap fund!!!! Haha... but I flunked my Bursa stocks thanks largely to one "Msports". Actually, I didn't lose ...just didn't make much ...maybe about 10%. I should've just held on to my REITs instead of trying to be smart. But I made practically double on my US stocks by betting on energy options.  Yeah, last year was a year of opportunity. I only made 30% of my capital from stocks....  QUOTE(lwb @ Jan 3 2010, 08:30 PM) 3 funds contributed about ~40%(roundup) since late apr-2009.. Is that because of the stock market crash that you gained so much by buying in cheap? What about now? Still a good time to buy in to PM? PIX, PAIF and Smallcap.. i've not closed my book on PAIF yet. How come you don't have to pay commission? This post has been edited by kmarc: Jan 3 2010, 09:12 PM |
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Jan 3 2010, 09:25 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(wodenus @ Jan 3 2010, 09:16 PM) How can you stand the lack of liquidity? you put in a buy order for like, what, 10 lots? and ten minutes later it's not done yet. In the mean time all you can see is your lost profit. Same happens when you sell. That was the last time I was on. Errrmmmm.... don't understand your question..... I only made 30% profit mainly because I didn't want to take the risk and it was the first time I "played" stocks. Next time I would be a bit wiser (by buying and holding on to bluechip counters)..... hopefully.... |
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Jan 3 2010, 09:45 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(lwb @ Jan 3 2010, 09:36 PM) yes, most of the time.. when there's a bloodbath.. it's much much safer to enter.. Yeah, I also think the stock market is too forward-looking at this moment. One day, everybody will suddenly realize that the economy is not good and there comes the bear and the double dip (my opinion only). That's the reason I'm taking my money out of stocks and putting it in a "safer" environment. FD, REITs and my newest investment tool - unit trust.........i couldn't predict what's a bottom looks like (there's also a risk trying to catch a falling 'dagger' as well) but thanks to the ability to switch quickly.. i limit myself to a stop loss of about 2%. what about now? well.. i'm just uncomfortable about today's economy's situation.. there're lots of bluff out there.. it's how to listen between what's true and what's fake.. nevertheless, it's still better to employ a stop loss with unit trust. |
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Jan 3 2010, 09:53 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(wodenus @ Jan 3 2010, 09:42 PM) Same here, I was in because I was arguing with this guy, who said you could make like 6% a month. So we dumped some money in there and he pretty much proved it. He had stacks and stacks of data with stuff like NBV and NPV and EBITDA and whatever not Errrmmmm.... not sure what technique that was but I was basically bottom-fishing. Entered the stock market in Nov 2008. Bought a few stocks and sold most by April-May 2009 when the bull was running. Made my 30% during that period. Sold most of my stocks because I thought the bear would return, which it never did!!!!  it's English but I didn't understand half of it lol. I know I was sweating a lot because the whole thing was so inefficient. I mean you'd key in a buy order, and it might be 10 minutes before it was matched. In that 10 mins anything could have happened. It's either that or keep fishing, setting buy orders that never get done because it slipped again. Sure we made 6%/month as promised but it was wild. You mean you made 30% by buying and hoping? is that 30% a month? or a year or what? Added on January 3, 2010, 9:43 pm So how do you manage to not pay commission?  |
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Jan 3 2010, 10:10 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(wodenus @ Jan 3 2010, 09:48 PM) Um.. you do realize that some funds trade solely in local stocks? Yes I do. However, I believe fund managers would get any news faster than us ikan bilis if we were to play stocks ourselves.QUOTE(lwb @ Jan 3 2010, 09:53 PM) i hope you're not referring to local reits, are you? the local reits seemed to have this stubborn inertia that it's always get stuck on 1st gear.. Unfortunately yes, I'm referring to local REITs. i'd pay a close attention to commercial loans regarding reits.. this is what keeping my fingers away from reits.. debts always have a way to spring an ugly ambush.. Anyway, what I'm saying is that besides FD, I'm looking for investment options that don't have such high risk as stocks. Everybody knows that FD is useless as your money will still get smaller and smaller due to inflation. FD is low risk low returns. The next step would be unit trust, which is medium risk medium returns, would it not? (Of course, based on what type of unit trust). Besides unit trust, I can't think of any other investment options. Note : I have tried a few times to buy ASM and ASW2020 but always goes back home upset and empty-handed. However, I managed to get some AS1M.... errmmmm.... hope the dividend is as good...... This post has been edited by kmarc: Jan 3 2010, 10:13 PM |
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Jan 3 2010, 10:21 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(wodenus @ Jan 3 2010, 10:01 PM) Amazing. So you didn't know anything about any of these companies, you went in, bought a few and made 30% in 6 months? Hehe, I didn't know anything at that time. Just bought based on recommendations in the stock market thread. As I always say in the stock market thread, I like to follow people's backside! Oh, even though I wrote a guide about stocks, I'm still a noob in stocks. I can't even understand financial reports as I'm not in the financial field. QUOTE(lwb @ Jan 3 2010, 10:01 PM) this is where 'greed' will start to sink in and slowly takes over.. be glad that you've pocketed your 30% (a fairly handsome gain, i'd say).. I would say that I'm lucky to have entered the stock market at the bottom. That's why I want to exit before my luck runs out.investing is like an ongoing lesson to learn about ourself.. we make mistakes countless of times.. i'd rather make baby mistakes than a fatal ones that can wipe off 30% of my capital.. don't worry.. the bear will eventually return.. when it does.. and you are ready for the next great ride.. then consider yourself good as you've learnt a new level about yourself (your own patience).. Hope the bear returns soon!!!! |
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Jan 3 2010, 10:25 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(wodenus @ Jan 3 2010, 10:20 PM) I can introduce you to our broker, but we're fairly conservative, we don't gamble or punt or speculate. We invest, our time frames are typically five years or more, and we're only targeting about 30% a year. It's quite boring actually. Thx but I'm exiting the stock market. Will only consider entering it again if the market crashes !!!Note : This does not include the occasional "gorenging" which I have become addicted to!!! This post has been edited by kmarc: Jan 3 2010, 10:26 PM |
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Jan 3 2010, 10:51 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(wodenus @ Jan 3 2010, 10:33 PM) Amazing One company did go under recently!!!! LCL went PN17. My first and only realized loss after one year of stock trading. Cut loss after 30% drop but was lucky as it dropped more than 80% after it went PN17!!!! I was also lucky as I didn't hold much of that counter as most of my cash was shifted to REITs. you're a lucky gambler I'm not. If I don't have a solid plan I can't sleep at night. We could have made 30%+ as well, but it was a heck of a risk to take, I mean how did you do it? you could have been wiped out in a month, you didn't think that you could be wiped out, or suffered serious losses if one or all companies went under?That's why I have never played any stocks until Nov 2008 when I thought the market was at the bottom. I just didn't want to take too much risk. Errrmm.... how I did it? Errrmmm..... I started off planning to invest long-term in bluechip counters. However, got hooked on "gorenging" as the market was volatile. Made some money buying on dips and selling at high (counters such as Kinstel, LCL, gamuda, Sime, Uchitec, Lionind, Scomi, KNM, etc). However, most of the money made was holding on to counters during the bullrun. The sad part was that I exited early as I thought the world economy was still in shambles and there would be a double dip. And there was the "feng shui" chart which predicted a market dip in Q2-Q3 '08! So, I sold off most of my holdings in Q2 and missed the BIG BIG bullrun until the end of the year. There were a few forumers who rode the bull and got really good gains but I was not one of them.Whatever it is, I'm happy with my profit and I don't look back and ask "What if"....... My lesson for the 2008 market crash is when it ever happens again, I will definitely buy bluechip counters for long-term investment. Added on January 3, 2010, 10:56 pm QUOTE(gark @ Jan 3 2010, 10:50 PM) I bought my first batch of Smallcap on 2005, then followed by another infusion at 2007 and last one early 2009. Thx for the info. Really good returns leh.The 2005, one about 70% gains, 2007 break even and 2009 got about 50% gains. IMHO Smallcap is a good return but risky stock. This post has been edited by kmarc: Jan 3 2010, 10:56 PM |
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Jan 3 2010, 11:10 PM
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Elite
14,576 posts Joined: May 2006 From: Sarawak
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QUOTE(lwb @ Jan 3 2010, 10:59 PM) kmarc, place your bid onto PIX.. that way you can sleep better.. after some fine tuning, i find the correlation of the bursa FBMKLCI is much closer.. btw, any hope for a pre-cny rally ah? QUOTE(cheahcw2003 @ Jan 3 2010, 11:03 PM) PIX is the worst most expensive's index link fund that track the performance of index. Aikes! PIX or no PIX??? If correlate with FBMKLCI no good leh, as I think it is already too sugar high!!!Pre-CNY rally? History-wise, there should be one but it's anybody's guess........ Anyway, I really got useful info from you guys. However, haven't decide whether I want to dump more money into PM smallcap fund!!! Will sleep on it.....  |
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