Anyone had experience with water injection system? Mist or fine droplets of water are injected into the intake manifold.

Benefits of WIS:

Steam resulted from the heated water will remove carbon deposits for cleaner engine.

Eliminate pinging or detonation which is harmful to the engine.

Better FC for NA car, higher compression for better power means less throttle can be used to travel at the same speed dueto lower intake temperature. More power for forced induction engines to run on higher boost without detonation.

http://www.maxperformance.com.my/catalog/p...products_id/197

With a brass nozzle, silicone tubes, water pump, 1 way valve, simple switch and fuse...I doubt it could cost more than RM300..

Anyone use decarboniser to clean their engines? same concept like using water steam to clean carbon deposits.
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/401938/+120

Is this really work or normal water could do the job already. Just spray fine water droplets using a spray bottle into the carb or PCV hose to the intake manifold.

1st time i m hearing .... i m shock ... what kind of technology is this ?

It's actually a simple old technology - just spray water or better mixed with ethanol into the engine. Used in WW2 turbocharged fighter planes to increase power instantly and lengthening their service interval.

For cleaning purpose that is called steam cleaning, I did try to inject water into my engine by letting the manifold vacuum suck the mist of water. Nothing bad happen afterwards. I guess you need more like 1 litre of distilled water to get the effect. No direct hose spray, fine mist of water would do.

wow.. really dint know that.. thank you so much for sharing...

i am just about to start RnD for this...hehe

i also would like to try... haha... using the water spray.... next 2years when i go back to Malaysia.. i ll try.. haha

i diy-ed before...







vr vr little improvement... but in long term, i afraid might cause rust to my pistons and valve...

therefore, i removed it already...

very very little improvement ? then how you notice ? or there is no different ?

cool....EFI engine also can use

yes, there might be no difference at all... jz as a consolation to my diy effort, "got abit difference la"....

Turbo Sang did that before in his supercharged SGTI. to bad i've lost the article
and i don't think it's that straight forward since in the article did mentioned an extra ECU, water pump and four separate fuel injectors for this kind of mod.

Only inject water when th engine is under load - vacuum suction during idling is stronger. So better build one with pump and switch. Turning off the injection minutes before we turn off engine will ensure all excess water is gone. There should be some gains cos water is a good heat absorbtion.

Tha's hard, need to build a controller and tap into our sensors..not easy la hehe. But there's a guide how to do ourselves on the net

Some rally cars have been using this method quite some time already.

have done this before on my carb engine and low end really improves, same method as catacumbs , but during idling a bit messy...ur idling will be freaky or maybe i use those aquarium stones are too big hence too much water masuk intake

hyundai used this in their WRC car.

story goes they were penalised as they were only supposed to stop for refuelling, and not filling up the water tank in the boot that's supplying the system.

So far i only heard this is used in force inducted engines to reduce the combustion temp slightly to control pinging. I think imprezas have them.

no la, imprezas have the spraybar to cool down the intercooler, not by spraying into the engine.

i had this 2 years ago . but i add methanol to the water. 50% water and 50% methanol . running 18psi of boost with this . using a 60psi shurflo water pump , controlled by a 12v DC water solenoid and injected tru a brass nozzle just right before the throttle body .





anyone tried CO2 cooler ? abit similar ..

CO2 Tank --> Nitrous Solenoid --> Nitrous Nozzle ... simple as that .

how do go get methanol here? O.o
homebrew?

its quite easy to buy if you know how and where

inject methanol into throttle body? won't that cause detonation if the manifold temperature is too high?
the best way is direct injection into the cylinders through valve openings ala nitrus style.

............and face a compound if you get caught and the officers think that's really N20

pump n switch would add up the cost adi... not willing to spend so much on something not assured to be reliable in long term... besides, racing cars and rally cars use their car for 1 year (or mayb less).... after that they completely strip it down for overhaulin or change new engine....

unker, my setup same with urs... but why mine tak jadi arr??... is it because ur car running high compression, which causes high engine temp... water vapour helps to absorb heat away and prevents detonation....
as for my car, everything stock standard... no detonation or any overheating problem, thats why not much difference....

correct me if wrong unker...

err no it wont .. beside detonation is caused by heat in the combustion chamber not the manifold . even some nitrous owner uses TB injection . individual direct port injectors cost more ..

haha .. they if blardy stupid if said mine is N20 ..no tank and all ..

they will hardly notice the bottle /tank unless you color it with bright color. ( i dont mean N20)

Is that brass nozzle used for the garden spray? Kinda big isn't it. And that pump

I think the water pump from aquarium shop is cheap only as well as switch . No harm to try thou..did you really get difference in FC

mine a bit gila on idling is becos the stone too big hence causing too much vapour but one things for sure, 1 trip to klang and come back kl..half a tank gone...and fc only improves a little, worth da try considering cheap cost in doing it DIY style

yeap... i notice altering the stone position (high/low) will give u different amount of bubbles, which produce different vapour density... at the end, i got fedup fine tuning the right amount of water vapour.... hahahah...

unker, u tried mixing with alcohol before??... so far i tried pure tap water only.... not much difference...

din have da time to put alcohol cos too expensive

is the extra power response worth it?

in short term, yes.... in long term, dunno... u dont know what water will do to ur pistons and valves... u might fried them....

the fitting is big , the nozzle small only ..

water just evaporate .. methanol gonna make a hole . i change my tb piping twice edi .

means its damaging to the engine in long run la...

later open up engine see all the rusted pistons

thats what i fear la... thats why i removed my setup adi....

yup . methanol is actually corrosive

wah... serious ? methanol is damage ? change 2 times for exhaust ? wow.... cant imagine...

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Added on August 30, 2007, 1:28 amby the way... just for your information... piston dont rust ok !

This post has been edited by wevilli: Aug 30 2007, 01:28 AM

yea unless ur piston is not ceramic coated or engine block is made of aluminum.

u using what piston which doesnt rust??...
all iron cast will rust.... but it will take some time la...

i've seen halfcut GSR piston start to rust....

not exhaust laa . TB as in throttle body piping . there's a hole just right below the injector nozzle after a few months.

anyway, my pistons are forged piston . comes stock with the engine . still good for 20psi of boost

what car u driving??...
as far as i remember, u got 2 superbikes....

the car sold edi ..

Daihatsu Charade G11 (1986) with GTti 1.0 Turbo engine . i am the one with the computer in the car .. touchscreen , custom DIY audio enclosure , etc. i did most of the mods myself .

damn . i miss that car .

show me a piston from a wira or savvy or kenari or myvi or AE111 which is ceramic coated. IIRC, only the K20A R something in the DC5 has ceramic coated pistons from the factory. even your average B16 does not have ceramic coated parts.

hard to find piston to show you .. unless go to performance workshop. Where people modify engine from a half cut engine.

where u get water pump and the price..?

buy from ebay .. nowdays its much cheaper ..

search for Shurflo .. i bought the 60psi one. i bought it a few years back for 49USD

wow....i think i gona try it tomorrow....ahahahaha

gona use the vacum point tht is control by the throttle, no vacum at idle, vacum raise when throttle open....

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Added on September 23, 2007, 3:34 ambtw if its mist, it should evaporate b4 reaching the combustion rite?

This post has been edited by xtorm: Sep 23 2007, 03:34 AM

seen my bro in law doing but at that time i was thinking 'what the hell...' didnt know it is a proven technology. coz my bro-in-law use water bottle and some mini valve like the aquarium use one. idling is a problem to my bro system. idling will be sluggish. hmm if the system is properly controll, isiit good? maybe i should experiment with it as well..

noler... in the hose, the water wanna evaporate go where??....

thats what i did la... u need to find the correct volume of mist entering ur combustion chamber only makes some difference.... and the mist must be tiny enough... big droplets will make ur car sluggish...

aiks....sorry use the wrong word..

i mean it wont dry out? hmmm

i did mine, dont feel too much different, sluggish at high rpm compare to previous, but didnt put in the control valve yet, will try to tune it tomorrow using that. but engine is much cooler now.

btw use the vacum at your throttle body, vacum will raise when it open, i have no problem with idling, little bubbles only.

This post has been edited by xtorm: Sep 24 2007, 01:23 AM

So does it mean it doesn't work for u? Wat car u driving?

slugish at high rpm mayb due to mixture too lean, cos now there is xtra air going in with out passing tro MAF.

i put in the valve and things seems to improve abit.

Hey guys,

Im interested in getting this water injection system...as seen on maxperformance.com but couldnt find a contact number and no reply to the email i sent them. Can any1 help me out??...

it would be easier if i were to purchase it locally la...dont wanna the hassle to buy things from ebay and all...and already tried with the aquarium valve and using existing vacumm lines....not so good during idle...

so, pls gimme some contacts...or if u have one for sale...would buy it..

thanks u alll!!

got try calling his contact number??...

i couldnt find his contact number bro...could u pls pm me or something..

thanks bro

How is that? intake manifold is strongest during idle.


Here's his email
kum@maxperformance.com.my

too expensive la...I saw some restaurants create mist using nozzles, perfect for this kind of application..not too wet...wonder what kind of pump they use.

small water pump??...

hmm like i say it situated at the throttle body, when idle there is very little vacum. like iswara, there is such vacum for advancing the timing.

Any risk from the position? afraid the moisture will rid of any lubrication on the butterfly valve...cause rust or seize.

u mean the ERG thingy??...

EGR - exhaust gas recirculator?

I only can find PCV hose on my engine..and that's where I gonna inject water into my engine, straight to the manifold bypassing the MAP sensor.

i heard if u use the vaccum point, u need to rev it high to fine tune it...... as it will suck very strong during high rev thus tuning it from that point is more accurate.

how about aluminum..can aluminum piston rust...

Savvy's piston is made by Mahle...they only offer aluminum pistons for non-commercial vehicles...

according to my noobie form 5 theory in chemistry, aluminium rusts easier than iron. in fact when u put aluminium and iron together, the aluminium will rust in place of the iron.


[prick mode]
but if u wan me apply more of my noobie chemistry theory, u can say that aluminium actually doesnt rust. rusting is the corrosion of iron .
for aluminium, its called corrosion/ oxidation.
[/prick mode]

This post has been edited by arsenwagon: Mar 20 2008, 11:12 PM

haha quite useless in this contex!

btw,when you compress n2o,ur actually feeding more o2 for combustion hence increasing power right?will h20 compress give you more o2 as well?
lolz,poor mans nitrous

i dont get it, why would a piston rust? our fuel is of hydrocarbon or short, carbon...

while IF there's rust on piston, it's oxide..

if not mistaken, carbon + oxide + heat = CO2+H20..meaning, even if there's oxide or laymen term rust, it'll still be removed..

dat's y we didnt hear ppl complain of inner part of exhaust system tubing gets rust..usually the rust sets in from outside..

This post has been edited by jimmyktp: May 2 2008, 03:01 AM

if pistons can get rust from inside... imagine the by-product of fuel burning... water.

aluminum wont rust if its purely aluminum...
piston is something mix alu+iron+carbon etc..
how about valve..its iron

aluminum will rust. its just that the result is an oxide that is tougher than the original stuff itself. that layer of oxide will protect the unoxidized stuff underneath.

hmmm...how bout ultrasonic mist generator???
those mist producing things u see on those rolling crystal balls in shopping complexes....

put it in a bottle then put a flexible pvc hose on the top of the bottle connecting it to the intake near the butterfly valve. the suction shud suck the mist into the engine

i thought of this idea before...


BTW... the main concern is NOT rust... your engine is operating about 150-200C at idle... and up to 450C at max rev... at that temp... water will immediately turn to steam and out of your engine... what you need to worry most is unburnt petrol that sit in the piston when you switched off your engine. this with the carbon deposits and also engine oil vapor will chemically react and become corrosive.

also what you SHOULD concern about water injection is the water droplet size... if it's too big. the water droplet might cool the piston TOO fast causing the piston top to pit. IF the water volume is too much, you might suffer piston lock as water cannot be compressed...

i've been running direct injection with mist nozzle for the past 3 years... no rust or whatsoever on my piston. i'm using about 3L of water to every 30L of petrol...

http://wolfstone.halloweenhost.com/Fog/fog...rasonicFog.html

someone willing to try it???

wah .. dead thread come alive again !!

http://water4gas.com/2books.htm?hop=khazi#damage

is the site above for real?

engine suction power would not be strong enough ler...

jeng jeng jeng

http://kahchai1985.blogspot.com/2007/05/di...r-ignition.html

its an electrolysis system where u use the car's power source and u seperate water into its basic component. when hydrogen is burnt with oxygen to become water, it releases an amount of heat as energy

Tried it already, not much effect for my wira...

ur electrolisis power not strong enough... u need to produce more hydrogen...

for the water injection system,its da same as sucking in water eg. from rain or puddles thru ur air filter and that is strongly not recomended,so why should letting water droplets or mist into ur engine do any good?

Have you ever notice during rainy days your engine performs better? There you got your answer

isnt that because the air is cooler hence more dense air for combustion?i dont think its got anything to do with rain water getting sucked in

Not rain water la
Humid air getting suck in, so the misted water you introduce into the combustion area reduces the temperature somewhat as water is a very good heat conductor so it absorbs heat very well ,so you can increase the timing hence more power lo in theory that is

sorry i have to disagree..i think its because of the lower temperature so the air that gets sucked in is more dense meaning more tightlyly packed molecules,nuthing to do with water vapour or mist..besides the rain itself provides cooling since it cools the bonnet and keeps the under hood temperature low..(heat conduction,before you decide to bash me)

I also dono but i know that the water injection provides higher octane its a proven technology no arguments about that.

my gawd...

water hard to ignite mah... thats why provides a higher octane environment lor....

y la cata ?? proven technology mah..new M5 all using water injection..

water injection correct la.. but he said raining time mist fly into the carb/throttlebody... that one kanasai abit...

Best part is he donno how or why but its proven technology so we must all blindly believe in it as well..i also got brothers 'proven' technology,pay rm600 add magnets to ur plug cable,micro compressor,mega power extreme voltage stabilizer (longer the name means more power) grounding wire ..all proven technology mah,go brothers dey can prove it to you,increase hp by +-30..

i dono the facts but i believe in BMW engineering as they are professionals and they are creditable enough as they are well known in the field of automotive. Only people like you will believe in brothers stuff. whether or not this DIY water injection works or not is really up to your own judgment so shut up and stop bashing me, i am studying psychology, people who bash other people are having the issue of inferiority complex, are you having that issue?

Manifestation would be withdrawal from social contacts or excessive seeking for attention, criticism of others, overly dutiful obedience, and worry.

This post has been edited by -storm-: May 6 2008, 06:19 PM

wow you ARE good!i feel so inferior to your superior intellect! PLEASE teach me sifuu

damn sacarstic sial...

Argue with this kind of people is a waste of time non constructive at all, full of air no substance, Rather go do my thesis! Oh ya btw catacomb do you know the saga blm using which type of plugs? Wanna order from u!

where got,i really wanna know la..learn engineering no use,nid psychologist help

full of rain mist! LOL..im still waiting for YOUR substantial report on the proven technology..but so far all youve given me is that its proven technology by BMW and you dont know the facts..wheres the substance in your own post bro?come on mr. psychologist,teach us..