Background info:
Recently, I have been in some pretty heated arguments with a few very harsh proton critics at paultan's blog. One of their key arguments was that malaysians are paying artificially high prices for proton cars. I used to think that way too... until I went looking for a car in Melbourne. Cars are not as cheap overseas as most malaysians seem to think. Certainly not as cheap as implied by coffeeshop talk. I do agree that cars can be cheaper if NAP didnt exist. But not by much...and here are my arguments as to why it is so:


for the record: I disagree with NAP. Although i think it's necessary for our car industry's survival.


Myth One: A Camry will be only RM60k if NAP/Proton didnt exist

This myth comes from the idea that all foreign cars are taxed 300%. Therefore, japanese cars will only be 1/3rd of their current OTR price without NAP tariffs. This myth is very very untrue. Even in Thailand a Camry is about RM137k. In australia they range from about RM100k to RM150k OTR exclusive of insurance. Some misguided guy on the PT forum actually thought a "Subaru impreza sportscar" was only RM60k if proton/NAP didnt exist. Such is what you hear in coffeeshops. It's simply not true. The impreza is a normal mid sized sedan (2.0L class) that costs about RM90k+ OTR (without NAP). The Impreza WRX (rally sports car) will cost closer to RM180,000. Even if NAP didnt exist! The basic mercedes C-class will be about RM200k (without NAP, incl insurance OTR).


...but i saw those really low prices on the CBU Warta on the government website.

Have you ever thought that those prices may have been deflated to reduce the amount of tax on the cars? The malaysian govt also taxes proton/naza/perodua cars btw. They are also non-OTR prices, and are subject to the same extra costs as explained below:


Myth Two: Car prices on overseas websites are actual prices

One must always remember that car prices online are seldom OTR. Malaysian sites show otr prices as insurance rates are pretty standard and tax is uniform across most states. For example, a person browsing an australian site may get the idea that a Honda Jazz costs only RM60k in australia. That's simply not true. Once tax+rego+stampduty+insurance has been factored in, the price is closer to RM73400. Australian websites dont show OTR prices as insurance is not compulsory and tax varies by state (although it is roughly similar).


Myth Three: Proton cars are expensive as they are artificially inflated due to NAP.

This is another misconception. For example, an Iswara (80's technology) was selling for RM27k OTR. Sure, it's old technology, but it gets the job done and for families with a budget of under RM30k, it is affordable. Even if NAP/proton didnt exist, there will not be japanese imports that are this cheap. The cheapest japanese cars, custom made for SE asia as budget cars (eg. Vios/City), will cost about RM50k OTR if NAP/Proton didnt exist. Proton is currently offering a budget small sedan, the Persona, for only RM46k. A normal non-budget small japanese sedan like a Corolla will be about RM80k without NAP...yet some people think they can get a Corolla for the price of a Persona if proton/NAP didnt exist. That is a misconception and is simply not true. The Persona appears to be a budget small family sedan. So dont compare it's trim and build to the more expensive makes as it is not a fair comparison (unless of course the persona was RM70-80k OTR then yes, you should compare the interior trim and build with cars lik the corolla). Bottom line: proton cars are reasonably priced. Even if NAP was non existant, similar sized japanese or continental imports will be more expensive. To be fair, they will have higher build quality and interior trim, but you will pay for it. A RM75k Persona anyone?


Myth Four: Proton cars are cheaper overseas than they are in Malaysia.

A Waja is RM74100-85400 OTR in the united kingdom. Some people still think that proton cars are cheaper overseas. As far as I know, the only place where some models may be marginally cheaper is at the United Arab Emirates, due to proton trying to penetrate that market (and the fact that the oligarch imposes no tax on cars and insurance is not compulsory...resulting in a lower OTR price. The gen2 in malaysia is only RM36k if there was no tax.)
*They do have slightly higher specs in the UK. ABS/airbags standard (it's a legal requirement there). Still it is more expensive even compared to similar ABS/airbag models in malaysia.



Myth Five: If Proton/NAP didnt exist, all malaysians will benifit.

Ok, let's assume proton closed down. The malaysian govt didnt develop our local car industry (no naza/perodua either) and we rely on imports just like Thailand and Indonesia. NAP does not exist. All cars taxed fairly and equally. The cheapest custom made (for SE asia) japanese budget mini-sedans, the Vios/City costs about Rm50k. Accords/Camrys cost about RM120k+ OTR. Civics and Corollas cost RM80k+ OTR. A Merc C-Class goes for RM180k OTR. Firstly, what's going to happen to all the jobs the local car industry provides? What about families who have less than RM40k to spend on a car? What about the price of fuel? Although foreign companies do provide jobs (eg. sales positions and support staff) ultimately, money will flow out of the country when we import cars. Could the govt continue to subsidize fuel? Try paying RM4/L for petrol. Assuming you travel 20,000km a year like many commuters, that amounts to an extra RM16000 in fuel costs over a 5 yr ownership period (with a realistic/moderate 8L/100km FC). Not including the inflation that will cause. More expensive groceries etc. And imported spare parts will always, always be more expensive than local parts (im referring to original parts..ask anyone who has owned a continental car about maintenance ).

Caveat: The middle and upper middle classes will BENEFIT from not having any NAP/Proton. They can afford RM60k budget sedans (Vios/City) and RM70-100k small sedans (City, Corolla). The price of a Merc will also be more reasonable at RM150 to RM180k for a baseline C-class instead of RM230k+ now. This middle/upper class can afford vegetables (figuratively lah of course) when fuel prices rise.

Not all malaysians are from above said classes.

This post has been edited by ezralimm: Oct 9 2007, 02:27 PM

Well done for the nice compilation! Just to add..

If government is sincerely want to Protect Proton by abolishing the tax and duties,

A Perdana V6 would have cost only RM75k
http://www.eon.com.my/images/default/Vehic...%20Choo-Web.htm

Cheapest Persona RM40k
http://www.eon.com.my/article.cfm?id=392

Waja 1.6 Campro manual RM50k
http://www.eon.com.my/images/default/Vehic...7-Web%20Pen.htm

Savvy lite RM28k
http://www.eon.com.my/images/default/Vehic...6.07.07-Web.htm

Satria Neo 1.6M highline RM44k
http://www.eon.com.my/images/default/Vehic...1.01.07-Web.htm

Gen2 1.6M highline RM42k
http://www.eon.com.my/images/default/Vehic...%20Choo-Web.htm

Not to say that proton are no good but without that PROTON or perodua, many ppl will have to used second hand cars, because others are just pure expensive. Well maybe for low income earners, a car is better then no car.

BUILT FOR ECONOMY,

do you mean these are myths, or do you actually mean facts?

Malaysians as a whole are pampered and sheltered by the low cost of car ownership.

Our fuel is still subsidized, it is not compulsory for us to send our cars for inspection annually, our insurance rates are fairly low and stable, and not subject to external factors like the prevailing accident rates of the make, we do not need permission from the government, nor ensure that we have a place to park in order to buy a car etc. etc.

Balance that against the fact that we have low purchasing power (wrt the average salary) and have to pay through the nose for 5-7 years to own a car, I'd say we're no better or worse than other countries.

Sure, I'd want to drive a Lancer Evo X and pay it off in a couple of years instead of a lifetime at my current salary, but the implications of such a reality are socially and economically significant: our fuel costs would be much higher, our insurance rates would be at the mercy of market forces,
there would be new regulations and taxes by the government to manage the economic and infrastructural cost of increased cars...

This is a zero-sum game. To get something, we would have to sacrifice something else. It's all a matter of perspective. We can't have our cake and eat it.

Yea i totally agree with ezralim especially with some proton bashers at paultan.org.. i seriously dun get it if you dun like it dun get it dun have to criticise rite? hmm yea NAP is important for our country but it open more job oppurtunities like proton and perodua and naza. imagine we import all the cars we drive...the waiting time and the spare parts tat'll be imported will be so exp tat u wish there's proton/perodua/naza (assuming they dun exist)

When they say civic will only cost RM60K its just an example, of coz nobody knows the price and tax structure. But what is happening with proton is undeniable. They sell a thinly disguist mitsubishi to the public (for the pass 20 yrs) which how many people complaint. This is what makes so many ppl pissed off.

When you monopolise a biz you dun care to improve until proton nearly chaplap then only they start producing gen2, I'm not saying proton did not improve but they sure took a damn long time for so little improvement. Doesnt justi fy, and come to NAP, the true fact was b4 proton came out car prices was cheap, and after that civic now cost 120K.

Blame this on proton!

i wouldn't say cannot criticize per se, at least give some solid facts lah. not blind bashing like what most bashers are well known for.

One thing for sure, Insurance and roadtax price in Canada is HELL!!!!!

Good list and good explanations. I hope people do more reading rather than bashing without thinking.

One thing about myth four that wasn't brought up however is that Proton cars have better specs overseas than in Malaysia. You can get side airbags with a UK spec Waja to achieve the 3-star Euro NCAP rating. There is no official way to get that kind of specs in Malaysia. For several months the Savvy marketed overseas had airbags while Malaysian could not get it officially even if they wanted it.

Unfortunately Proton seems to believe that Malaysian lives are cheaper than UK lives.

Waja, Savvy, Gen.2 UK spec only has 2 airbags.

http://www.proton.co.uk/impian/features/safety-security.php
http://www.proton.co.uk/gen-2/features/safety-security.php

3-star NCAP is commendable for twin air-bags cars.


Another thing to add. Singapore's RTA (road transport authority) allows airbag-less cars on the road. Savvy SG spec doesn't have any airbags at all.

They can take up to 10 years (in fact longer than ours) for standard hire purchase loan for cars.

http://www.dbs.com/sg/personal/loans/car/

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Added on August 25, 2007, 3:04 pmTheir spec is same like ours - premium accessories like leather seat still depends on local dealers.

This post has been edited by hypermount: Aug 25 2007, 03:04 PM

^ours 9 years, theirs 10 years. only 1 year difference. any significant?

Nobody will dispute that. Their quality has a bad reputation. Then again, they are improving. As far as i know most car companies have QC problems initially. Even the japanese marques had terrible reputations when they were first introduced...in fact, even when they were more than 20 yrs old.

20yrs is not a very long time for a car company. Korea banned jap imports for like 40 years to let it's car industry develop.

Proton had problems with their suppliers. Power window failures etc. But those issues are being addressed. And the bottom line is that their cars work. (not too many transmission/drivetrain problems and decently reliable) Interior build may not be top notch, but they do make cheap cars.

This Euro-NCAP page for the 2002 UK spec Proton Impian obviously incuded side airbags, see the Model History section near the bottom. Obviously Proton did offer it at some point to satisfy the 3-star rating in the UK. They never offered the same spec in Malaysia as far as I know since I was looking at the Waja in 2002/3 as a possible car to buy.

I won't argue about the Euro NCAP ratings but I still stand by my statement that Proton believes that Malaysian lives are cheaper than UK/European ones! If they had designed the Savvy with airbags in mind then why not introduce them from the beginning?

point taken. initial post appended.

Let me add one more data point. Volvo Malaysia actually has a price list for expatriates in the Malaysia My Second Home program which shows their cars before the excise duty and sales tax. If the NAP were to completely go away, don't forget that there is the sales tax so your OTR prices still won't be as low as the expatriate prices. What I can say however is that I can't afford the cars even at expat prices.

i believe this is so due the rules and regulation of the country that require car to have at least airbags before being set on the road

correct me if i am wrong...

Perodua is doing the same yet they manage to sell so many cars

because that time proton shot themselves in the foot.....

try launching myvi side by side with the current persona and see

/offtopic
what perodua is doing now is the same as proton 10 years ago when they start selling the wira. THe myvi is technically is full japanese car so ppl have more confidence in them and that is the same as the wira last time. HAve u forgotten that last time proton sold hundred thousands of wira to malaysian? What happenig with perodua now is exactly what happed to proton 10 years ago. WHen perodua start to make their own cars then we can see the if they are competent.
/offtopic

OF coz now we are talking about proton so lets not go off topic anymore. Anyway malaysian are too pampered with the fuel subsidy and then they think that they should have cheaper cars. I for one are much more willing to have cheaper fuel than cheap cars but fuel at rm4/L is really nightmare.
Well having prtoon and perodua is actually good for the contry economy as money will circulate in the country rather than being channeled to foreign countries