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 Insurance Talk V7!, Your one stop Insurance Discussion

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Jason
post Apr 20 2025, 01:42 AM

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I’ve got a basic life with medical on it from GE, and it is an investment link plan since 2017.

Agent tells me that the premium contribution would be level until I’m 100 years old as that’s what the investment portion does — to keep it level.

There’s been a premium increase of 20% 2 years back due to lack of funds or whatever and cannot sustain, and agent moved me to a new pool because I have not claimed anything. That’s what the agent said lah. To me, I’m like okay. This increase did give a bit extra benefits like higher limit which I don’t really care… I’m happy with the existing limit.

Now I am curious
1. Is that level premium contribution legit? Like does such a thing exist and really work?
2. I genuinely don’t care about life insurance. My main need is medical coverage esp. when I am old, retired and jobless.
3. Does GE have deductible medical coverage? Per annum? I don’t mind having deductible of RM1k ~ RM3k. Got company coverage, and I can still afford RM3k/year after retirement.

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Edit: don’t really want to talk to my agent. I don’t want to Kena upsell. If anything I want to add on deductible to pull the premium down.

Edit2
hafizmamak85 thanks for sharing
Interesting read. Based on your info, all ITOs are evil. So who is the least evil where I can get guaranteed renewal up to 100 years old. With a premium that would not be raised at the whim and fancy of the ITO? It looks like we do not have a choice and at their mercy?

This post has been edited by Jason: Apr 20 2025, 03:25 AM
Jason
post Apr 20 2025, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(adele123 @ Apr 20 2025, 01:58 PM)
Answering your question.
1) the level premium is legit if you assume medical inflation remains zero which is impossible. So the answer, nope not legit.

2) no solution.

3) should ask your agent. But based on older plan, usually low or no deductible. But GE current on shelf plan has 2.5k and 5k.

Just a reminder that ITOs are for-profit companies but it is also heavily regulated. If by this definition, then banks are evil too.

Will ITOs continue to raise prices? Ya, if medical claims continue to increase. After all, the ITOs are not in it to run a losing money business. What you hope is they work hard to pay the right claims, catch the customers who make fraudulent claims. Which one? Dunno…
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Thanks
1) Then they SHOULD not be allowed to sell ILPs saying that it will sustain the premium over the years. Knowing the answer is no due to inflation. Misrepresentation. Banks are evil but if they say you’re going to get 4% returns on your 20 year FD placement, regardless of the state of economy, in year 15 you will still get 4%! But this isn’t the case for insurance. wtf BNM

2) 😂

3) problem with agents, every time see them also wanna increase. I don’t want to increase I want to retire. Which means optimization of my expenses. Clearly agents are NOT ALIGNED to MY NEEDS. They just want to increase the premium for their pockets.

QUOTE(Ramjade @ Apr 20 2025, 02:18 PM)
Can sustain only 100 years old is only a dream. If you see the projection table by the insurance company at 2%p.a and 5% p.a (as mandated by BNM) you can see that in actual fact it cannot sustain until 100 years old. Some where down the line 70-80y time, your ILP will run of of cash value. If you don't inject say say 50-100k of cash, no way it can sustain you.

Remember with ILP you are paying the insurance to invest for you to actually able to sustain you until the age require. For them to do that they need to invest to get about the 5%p a rate consistently. Can that happen? I don't know. I have look though lots of ILP and majority can't  even match EPF returns, so you tell me.

That's why I don't bother with ILP but rather than let them invest for me, I invest it myself and just buy pure insurance. No investment part from them as I feel it's not worth me paying them money if they cannot even generate a decent return. Basically in plain English why pay them when you can do a better job yourself.

If you haven't claim, you are still in luck as you can still buy standalone. Standalone is just plain insurance without the rubbish investment. You take the savings and dump it into EPF which will generate better returns than whatever the insurance company can do.

Your choice.
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Which standalone direct to consumer medical insurance can cover up to 80? Or 100? With an annual limit of min ~RM1m and no lifetime limit. With guaranteed renewal?

The issue I have, reading the fine print, is that they start your policy at age 40, but there’s no guaranteed renewal, then they drop you off at 60 despite you have 0 claims. Then you are fked.

I’ve been looking at all the direct to consumer ones… we don’t really have many choices.

My goal is never having to use the insurance until the day I die. I think policies with >RM5 million annual coverage is perpetuating the issue of rising medical costs and stupid. Bloody hell if you need to spend RM5 million on medical bills in a year you’re probably bionic man already with all the work done to you. I rather go YOLO and live the last of my days than to be bedridden, pissing myself off and either in pain or high as a kite.
Jason
post Apr 21 2025, 01:35 AM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Apr 20 2025, 05:55 PM)
Only few companies have standalone medical up to RM1m coverage.
1) AIA
2) GE
3) Generali
4) lonpac -medisavers vip
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Through agents? If possible I want to bypass agent and save on comm. Which company you bought for medical?

QUOTE(hafizmamak85 @ Apr 20 2025, 09:27 PM)
You, the consumers, do have a choice. You are not at their mercy. You can always band together and haul the ITOs to court for contract non-performance and unfair/unreasonable contract practices. The sorry state of affairs in Malaysia means most, if not all, ITOs have such similar unfair/unreasonable practices.

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It took 61 years for Malaysia to change government, driven by the people. I don't think I will live to see the day ITOs and BNM getting sued. Rule of 78 is outright illegal and banned in many countries including UK, Australia and New Zealand, and even Singapore. BNM talk about abolishing it for years, bila? Not practical lah boss. I don't have 60 years to wait for it to happen.

You can champion that, I will support you, but while that is happening I need to address my current issue first, which is my insurance.

Simple maths to me, you sell me insurance with RM1 mil annual limit, with X premium for Y years. Actually medical cost increase got nothing to do with me and my insurance policy. So what if surgery for knee increase from RM20k to RM60k? It still falls within the RM1 mil annual limit of MY POLICY, you cover lah.

But what you are saying, insurance companies actually give RM1 mil annual limit with no intention of covering actual RM1 mil. So they sell plan on paper but with no actual money to back it. That's called a Ponzi scheme... when not enough $$$ you squeeze your customers to put more money in the pot. That's actually what's happening now lol.

Jason
post Apr 21 2025, 03:22 AM

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QUOTE(hafizmamak85 @ Apr 21 2025, 02:49 AM)
They have the money, they just choose not cover all these large claims
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The way I look at it... and the result of such a policy to a policyholder such as myself.. scam Ponzi lah. That is the end result. Some people can claim, but when most people claim the whole thing falls apart. Isn't that a Ponzi?

You put lipstick on a pig it is still a pig... put a dress and tiara on it, still a pig... no difference still haram. You dress it up with pretty product disclosure sheet and tell me ILP is to sustain, but after few years tell me cannot sustain, means you failed at the job you promised to do.

Likewise if bank can tell me give me 4% on my 20 year FD cert then year 5 tell me cannot give me 4%? Cannot right? The bank cannot make money on the funds I place in FD is not my problem. That is the bank's problem.

Tapi this insurance is "scam" bertauliah. No wonder insurance agents and the companies all kaya raya.

Jason
post Apr 21 2025, 09:15 PM

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hafizmamak85 bruh I feel your passion, I really do. and you can champion the good fight.

Laymans like me? I still need insurance lol, whether they are evil or not. Health insurance is required because it can be crippling, both physically and financially.

Ramjade medisavers underwritten by Lonpac macam yes. But they first sell via MLM, then now Metafin, and everything is spun off by Pathlab, I don't know why they make it so damn dodgy when the product is solid.
Jason
post Apr 22 2025, 12:59 PM

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QUOTE(hafizmamak85 @ Apr 22 2025, 11:47 AM)
Adhering to properly construed contract terms and policyholder rights and reasonable expectations is not charity.
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Ponzi schemes also got contract what.
Contract policy doesn’t mean squat when there’s no oversight and enforcement.
Jason
post Aug 27 2025, 01:51 AM

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ayam very confused, I think these ILP stuff is hiding a lot of things behind the scenes and agents misrepresenting stuff to sell.

tolong advise
1. I got existing life+ci with medical rider with GE. If I ONLY want to drop the medical rider do I need to cancel the whole policy? or just drop the rider and maintain the existing policy. And if I drop the medical rider, premium logically should go down right? why my agent quote me a new policy.. I just want to remove the medical rider and buy a new medical policy. Or insurance so stupid must cancel my existing policy just because I wanna remove a rider. If my old policy remove and start from 0 again.. fk this insurance I just go other company lah

2. how come same insurance (GE) same policy, same waiver, same deductible, same rider.. 1 agent quote Rm300/month another agent RM200/month... coverage same, benefits same.. everything same but such huge discrepancy..

1st agent.. show as age progress..premium increase..but the rm200 show same monthly premium up to age 100..not possible kan..


Jason
post Aug 27 2025, 11:54 AM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Aug 27 2025, 06:25 AM)
While waiting for responses and comment here, I would be happy to hear the comments and explanations provided by both your agent 1 and 2.
Have you asked them since they had full details of what they quoted you from full details they got from you?
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QUOTE(JIUHWEI @ Aug 27 2025, 10:06 AM)
Frankly among all the products in the market, ILP is about the most transparent.
You don't have to rely on the agent for these info, it is widely available online.

To answer your question:
1. There must be the option to only change the riders as opposed to surrendering the whole policy since it is an ILP policy.
This is a standard MO across the industry.

2. Which one do you think makes more sense? Go with the one that makes more sense je
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got my answer already, my first question, just do proposal to illustrate since removing rider no way to show me a pdf of the new premium. but yes just removing medical rider not new policy.

2nd question.. the 2nd agent simply quote.

So far from my own survey.. AIA most expensive for similar coverage followed by PRU. Allianz and GE seems comparable. I am still deep diving.

This post has been edited by Jason: Aug 27 2025, 11:57 AM
Jason
post Aug 27 2025, 06:57 PM

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QUOTE(JIUHWEI @ Aug 27 2025, 04:01 PM)
I am unsure about GE, but AIA portal we can generate the exact premiums for replacing riders. Including projected sustainability.
Can even be sent to client in a pdf document.

Maybe deep dive why AIA so expensive?
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AIA to cover to 70 RM275
Allianz cover to 80 RM280

same room band board rm200
annual limit allianz higher

Rest all apples to apples. GE I think Medivalue is most cost effective using the RM20k deductible w/retirement option. Cover to 70 RM200 premium.

Some agents are really noob. Some are very experience. But I noticed a lot of them do not give you the PDF by default, need to ask. I can see how clients end up dunno what they buying. I don't intend to keep changing/buying, I am only doing this to jump into a high deductible inso. GE agent tells me RM5k deductible pool and RM500 deductible pool is separate. So the ppl with RM500 abusing inso doesn't impact me, which is what i want.

Hopefully just buy this, and don't ever need to claim until I die.

BNM mandates that inso companies all give proposal giving projections based on X (worse case) and Y (ideal) to compare. I run my numbers based on X between GE & Allianz.. the gap is staggering for the total COI up till age 80: RM117k for GE 5k deductible vs Allianz 5k deductible RM144k. The Allianz agent really pretty but oh well.

This post has been edited by Jason: Aug 27 2025, 06:58 PM

 

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