If you invest for free cash flow doesn't matter if down or up market, money will keep coming in. There is no need to sell anything. I know some financial bloggers will kill me for saying no need to sell stuff but that is different story.

Go read the terms and conditions. You can just go with minimum life insurance. Agents will try their level best to get your money. That's why talk with lots of agents. I talk to 10 different agent and spend 6 months shopping. A god agent will not push you stuff and will tell you the truth and no sugar coat stuff. That's how you know the agent is good.y agent fulfilled the condition
1. Not pushy
2. Tell me everything I want to know pros and cons
3. Tell me the ugly
4. Telling me about 2y period.

If you want standalone only 4
AIA, GE, Generali, Kaotim

If you want those 200k coverage, lots.

Yes. If you are a poor pay master, don't take standalone. Cause once lapse means bye bye.

Ask yourself do you need those coverage? I learnt this from Singaporean financial blogger. If you can generate yourself say SGD100k p.a of free money every year, do you still need insurance which have to obey all their terms and conditions. Yes some of them are at that level. That's why they remove away l life, critical illness insurance and only have medical insurance. Their words it's better to continue received payout every year than one time payment.

Another thing I learned from them: never ask a barber if you need a haircut for obvious reasons.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: May 24 2024, 11:53 AM

I think you misunderstood me. The guys I am following are financial bloggers. They don't need to work to get the 100k. They are paid minimum SGD100k p.a to do nothing.

When they die, they pass on the money printer to their children and hence their children will continue received SGS100k p.a

No insurance can do that last time check. Anyway it's out of topic. I won't continue down thar in this topic.

Because many agent only knows how to sell things and earn commission. Most don't know how to I vest themselves or if you talk about investing, they will tell you xyz unit trust. Living off dividends are not really taught in their line of work.

I already tagged you in another thread so that won't be OT. Er I have seen enough insurance agent to know those I talk with only knows how to promote unit trust. Even some so call financial planners.

Er calculations I have seen don't show insurance is the best investment. Never mix investment with insurance. Also insurance is a risk transfer tool. You are paying the company to take on your risk.

And yes I walk the talk and don't just NATO. I already have the option to not work anymore if I want to. Everything I learn from financial bloggers. Had I listen to insurance agent or banks, I wouldn't be where I am today.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: May 26 2024, 05:45 PM

All of them don't need to do anything already cause they got more than enough money doing nothing is the right thing. That's what I am doing also. Not doing anything except keep buying and reinvesting my money.

Agreed. When you got no conflict of interest, you got nothing to gain from your post. I think it's off topic already.

Avoid. Friend you will feel pity. Then you will let your emotion take over. Stuff you need to look for in an agent.
1. Not yes man.
2. Not pushy.
3. Tell you the cons of stuff you want to buy and not just the pros.
4. Not spammy.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: May 26 2024, 11:10 PM

Both not much difference especially if you consider ILP got topup. If don't topup, you got into sustainability issue. Everytime you topup, you need like usually 50k.

And not to mention everytime fund not performing is like 90% of the time, you need to topup some more.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: May 27 2024, 05:48 PM

Again these are what some of the good agents told me. All ILP will have sustainability issue. Usually you need to top-up 2-3x throughout your contract to make it until the age you want.

My next question is top-up is how much is the topup?
Generally 20-50k/topup.

A good agent will tell you about topup. A bad agent will leave that part out and it will be surprised to you when cannot sustain.

This top up is voluntary not force by the insurance company. Also this topup is on top of the increase premium. You can top-up any time you like.

There is no top-up required for standalone. You just get hit by increase premium.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: May 27 2024, 06:08 PM

It's not widely shared. Only 2 agents I talked to out of the 10 mentioned this topup to me. The rest all pushy and want me to buy ILP.

I was like interesting. On top of increasing premium because of lousy fund performance, I need to top-up to make it sustainable until the age I want? Nope. Not for me.

Ask your agent to explained to you. You paid for their service. They should be explaining to you.

For me, too much uncertainty, and seems like too much cost overtime, hence I go for straight forward insurance.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: May 27 2024, 06:38 PM

That's is increase in premium. You can do a voluntary top-up so you won't get those letter. How long can the voluntary top-up last? Don't know. Depending on how much you are willing to add.

Think of it it like water tank. The letter is company telling you water tank is running low. Topup so you can continue to have water. Or you can dump lots of water into the tank and then they won't send you that letter. It's not advance payment.

If you don't topup lump sum you will get those letters demanding you to agree to increase premium.
Voluntary lump sum topup reduced the frequency of the letters. Will it eliminate it completely? Maybe yes. Maybe no...

Again depending on the water tank scenario.
1. How much lump sum you topup
2. How fast the water draining out

All medical premium will increase with age whether you are on ILP or standalone..There will come a time where medical premium cost + maybe those riders premium you add on exceeded the yearly premium you pay. When that happens, the ILP will start selling your unit trust to pay for the premium. Most likely at this point they start sending out those pesky letters. Now it will come a time, where you don't have sufficient money in the unit trust to pay for your premium, hence amount of premium paid < insurance cost + zero cash value inside the unit trust, hence it will lapse.

Eg.
Insurance cost RM10k
You are paying RM4k/year
Still short of 6k.
Now where to get the 6k?
Minus from your investment.
Now what happen if investment zero cash value already?
Then you need to fork out 6k. Possible more than 6k for the investment part.

Now you hope that the investment part can sustain you for as long as possible. How to have more investment value?
1. Add in more money. Lump sum topup or agree to increase premium.
2. Good investment returns. Now we all know this is not going to happen unless you can consistently choose a good fund or the fund perform well consistently. You can see yourself what's the returns are like over 10 years period...

So eg. if you add lump sum add in say 10k, Vs 100k, which one is going to sustain you longer? Obviously the 100k. Next question, who have 100k to dump in and who wants to do a voluntarily dumping in of say 100k?

Will 10k and 100k dumping get letter to increase premium? Depending on the water tank. How much cash value left...

This is just my understanding. Can be wrong.

Sorry if you still don't understand me.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: May 27 2024, 08:26 PM

I also didn't know about it until the agent told me. That's why good to have honest agent..

I was what do you mean about topup? Then she explained that all ILP cannot sustain you until the end of the contract. You can increase sustainability by increasing premium or lumpsum topup.

That was then I was like I am paying for investment and it cannot sustain me until the age I want and now have to lump sum topup down the road? Nope.

Get agent to talk to you about sustainability of policy and see what is their response. A good agent will tell you what to do, what is it. A bad agent will brush it off.

MUM
standalone has no sustainability issue? Standalone also has yearly renewal in which the premium can be increased to sustain the covered value.
This one you you know agak2 how much you need to pay next year. Can prepare or set aside cash to pay for it 1y in advance. Sustainability issue only comes if you cannot afford to pay.


I think ilp you pay more so your policy got more money that you will hv lesser quantum rate of increase compared standalone. Ilp you pay more so that your fish tank got more water, so it requires lesser water to refill to sustain the fish. No?
I think more or less the same. It's not about increase. It's about how much you are paying total. I use the BNM conservative 2% p.a return and even with RM3600/year can barely or may not reach the agreed age I want. Might be true if say you increase premium from say 3k to 5k/year. You have more money in the the tank.

Judging based on there had been no postings in lyn forums regarding experience of ILP needs to top up 20-50k for 2-3 times in the lifespan of the policy on top of the reqular repricing. Thus i beliefs there could be some error in your understanding/judgement regarding the need to top up 20-50k on top of the regular repricing.
Like I said, if you tell client need to topup in the future, how to sell the product? And topping up is voluntary. Is not force by insurance company.

What I share is just strategy one of the agents I talk to told me. This is how she make it sustainable for her clients.

Do a review at around 45yo, see if can upgrade the insurance plan or need to topup. If needed 50k topup.

Next review will be at 55yo. That time have access to EPF, take out 100k from EPF and top-up. Should be able to sustain you until the age you want.

Alternatively if cannot afford the 100k, break up into small chunks of 20-30k. Possible error on my part. Yes I agree.


Anyway I don't have ILP so not going to have this headache can sustain or not. No need worry how much need to topup. I want less headache in my life.

All pool of money are separated. That's why old plan, the pool nearly dried up so more increase in premium Vs new plan with new onboarding customer. The new onboarding customer will add new cash into the pool.

Don't think so. Standalone you are only dealing with insurance component.

ILP you have 2 component.
1. Insurance portion
2. Non performing funds
So logically speaking if fund not performing + insurance portion, it's double whammy.

Like I said not about steeper, it's about final cost. At least for me.

Who pay more only way to find out is for one person to buy both insurance and get results at say 80 years old time.

There is savings. Only you don't see it. First thing is
1. You save on annual fees.
If you buy ILP, you already lose 1.5%p.a, off you buy ETF like what I recommend you only lose 0.07-0.2%p.a

2. If you are like me buying stocks, it's only one time charge as I am buy and hold guy.

3. If choose to put into EPF, yes EPF pay fees but it's essential free for you.

So no savings? Not true. That is lots of savings over long term.

Bro. That's a wrong way to think about. It is not 1500 gone. Any money left over you can put it for investment. It is your own moneyat the end of the day Any money paid to insurance company is no longer your money.

Eg. I have allocated 1k for investment. Now I got extra RM300, I can add 1.3k instead of just 3k into investment. That's why the idea of cutting Starbucks come from. So you have extra left over to invest.

Don't look at steeper increase. This is my view
If say
A cost RM200k with steep increase
B cost RM250k with gradual increase,
would I pick A or B? I would pick A. That's RM50k saved. Who is going to give you free RM50k? But that's just me. Maybe you would prefer B cause of gradual increase.

Bro, maybe you too much money but for me wrong way to go about it. This is my real life story.

I can hand over free RM300 to the banks every few months but instead I didn't. I keep the RM300 for myself and invest it. All by watching my cost and yes this have been going for almost 10 years already. I found a legal way to bypass giving the banks free RM300. This saves me at least minimum RM10k already.

For me, I quote a youtuber, watch your cent and the dollars will take care of themselves. I am train to always watch the cost because of this quote, "Small holes can sink a mighty ship. Never underestimate the smell holes. Fees and cost matter" This quote I think I got from Jack Bogle/or those ETF forums when I first came across it. That's why I am very sensitive to cost and fees.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: May 29 2024, 11:39 AM

Don't bother with CI in Malaysia. Overpriced. I was looking for standalone CI. Only one that offered what I am looking for was AIA. I won't bother getting CI from GE dues to numerous scandal involving GE CI that pop up in the news.

AIA quoted me RM14k/year for RM500k coverage.

I shopped for CI in Singapore and they are able to offer me RM7k (in SGD) for RM500k coverage with more payout, multiplier than what AIA can offer me.

In layman term I get covered more and it's cheaper. I pay way lesser and get more coverage.

Downside is you need to travel down to Singapore to sign the contract and it's priced in SGD.

If you are looking for basic CI/36 CI, plenty around.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Jun 7 2024, 06:43 AM