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 Insurance Talk V7!, Your one stop Insurance Discussion

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koja6049
post Oct 29 2025, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(JIUHWEI @ Oct 29 2025, 03:06 PM)
I attempt to shed some light ya.
ILP is designed to be a Leveled-Premium Product. What this means is that the premium is averaged out to the point that the annual premiums remain the same year on year. Why it is so important to distinguish it in such a way?
It is because the premium is not, never was, and will never be claimed to be fixed.

Why they cannot fix now leh?
Because the premiums will be very high. You also won't buy.
At the current, every repricing also create a wave of discussion demonizing the whole insurance industry liao.
Give you the option to fix the premiums into the far future... We don't want to deal with daily disturbance in the force neh.
As for the Life Planners like myself, lagi worse. Whole world want to check my pocket see how much I earn, count every cent I have on behalf of LHDN. (Really no need, I already kena audit few times)

So now that claims are going through the roof (and newfound roofs year on year), nobody happy liao.
As educated members of society, let's take a deep dive into the crux of the problem, the devil always in the details - the numbers.
Other company I don't know, so won't comment much.
In 2024, AIA Malaysia paid out RM 5.75b in claims.
Of that, RM 4.75b is paid to hospitals & clinics in the form of medical bills & charges. The deductibles, items that are not covered, tak kira sebab tak bayar.
Among the top 10 diagnosis, the average inpatient payout ranges between 6,000 to 51,000 per claim.
Total average per claim is 11,000.
Among the top 10 categories of diagnosis - standing at #2 is General Conditions with an average payout of RM 8,000; standing at #8 is General Infections with an average payout of RM 7,000.

Now, we cannot say for sure that these are abuses or fraudulent claims. Because we are not doctors.
Even if you ARE a doctor, you're most probably not the attending physician to these cases, kan?  brows.gif
As educated members of society, we want to look at other ways to make the system efficient and optimized for everybody's benefit.
So the first move was to introduce deductibles as a means of lowering the premiums.
And the market reacted as it should. And a friendly deductible of RM 300 or RM 500 has proven to be acceptable to the market.
Hence the SMART Option arrived.

Crash Course on SMART Option: https://www.aia.com.my/en/help-support/clai...rt-journey.html

TL;DR version:
Why pay RM 500 deductible when the problem could easily be handled at the GP for RM 100 - RM 200?
Follow the SMART Journey, enjoy lower premiums.
Don't follow the SMART Journey, then let's shoulder the burden together.

As it is, the medical portfolio is currently running at a loss to insurers.
Yet, the gomen interfered to soften the blow to the rakyat.
As a commitment to continue as partners in nationbuilding, all members of LIAM agreed.
It doesn't mean that the insurers are out to get you.
Just like how the police force is not created to make our lives even harder.

I strongly believe that regular review and openly sharing with your Life Planners is the way to cultivate that symbiotic relationship.
Personally, I train my agents the same way - we will only grow when our customers grow.
They don't benefit from our advise, we won't benefit in the long term.
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The premium is fixed. The company cannot, on month January, say that you need to pay RM400, then on month February, say that you need to pay RM800. Without consent, the company cannot simply increase the premium as they like. What they can change though, is the cost of insurance.
koja6049
post Oct 29 2025, 04:11 PM

On my way
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QUOTE(Wedchar2912 @ Oct 29 2025, 04:01 PM)
Don't understand why you are so adamant in claiming the premium is fixed.

Are you a insurance agent? Cos JIUHWEI do sell insurance...

And thanks to the recent 2 years debacle, many of us had our medical premium fees increased, with or without our consent.
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because many irresponsible agents out there like to con their clients into "increasing" their premiums so that they can earn a better commission. One of my aunt fell into this trap. The agent say premium has increased because cost of insurance has increase, and her premium went from rm400 to rm800. Later I check why the high increase, and they found out that the agent just put the extra rm400 into "investments", the actual medical premium only increase like 10%.

Many people out there got played. Many many irresponsible agents try to make a fast buck. The client just sign the papers because they trust the agents. Do you due diligence, know that premiums can only increase if you give your consent whistling.gif
koja6049
post Oct 29 2025, 04:34 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Oct 29 2025, 04:22 PM)
Yes company cannot increase the premium without your consent. But it is like a blackmail by the company if you refuse to increase premium.

If you you don't increase your premium, your duration of coverage decreases. It is essentially an indirect blackmail.
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again another misconception. The duration of the coverage doesn't decrease, the coverage will follow the contract that you signed. If you sign 80 y/o, then it will last until 80 y/o, not one year less or one more.

What decreases is the unit deduction for COI increase. Units will be deducted more if COI increase, that seems intuitive. But you also need to factor in if your investment is doing very well, in fact less units will be deducted, so overall your coverage is still sustainable. If your investments are doing poorly like 2008 crisis, then even without COI increase, you would still need to top up your premiums.

Many lay people do not understand the dynamics of ILP and they easily get conned by their agents. My aunt was one of them, the agent just told her that she needs to increase her premium because of the so-called "medical repricing". But 100% premium increase did not make sense to me, so I went to check her new policy, and found out that the agent tricked her into signing a new "investment rider" tagged onto her medical plan. As you can guess, new rider means extra commission for the agent whistling.gif
koja6049
post Oct 29 2025, 06:21 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Oct 29 2025, 06:16 PM)
Yes you can sign till 80 years old. Is whether the premium you pay can sustain you until 80 years old. If you look at the ILP, majority of the ILP premium cannot even sustain until the age you want unless you up the premium paid.

So if the premium cannot sustain you until 80 years old, the company can ask you to increase premium so that can reach your coverage age or perform a lump sum top-up.
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well of course, that's just common sense. But many people don't have common sense because they are not well versed in how ILP works. Like how do you explain to someone that medical repricing doesn't mean your premium 100% increase?
koja6049
post Oct 29 2025, 10:19 PM

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QUOTE(Wedchar2912 @ Oct 29 2025, 09:27 PM)
yeah, prior to this year, I also mistakenly thought so... because the letters requesting for increase were mere advises/suggestions.

This year's letter proved otherwise.... and my provider's CS terang terang claim it is out of their hands and push the blame (verbally) squarely on BNM. how about that?
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i said before, this year is the special one because it is allowed by BNM. I also received same letter from AIA to sign the letter so that the premiums increase "NOW", or wait next year and it will increase automatically. Govt gave green light so we got no choice. But other than this special circumstance, in all other cases they must get our consent to adjust premiums.
koja6049
post Oct 30 2025, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Oct 30 2025, 02:25 AM)
There are many threads in lyn about premium hike that are few years old.....
This is not a new things,
Attached image were 2 examples posted in 2019
No mentions of consent requirements.
But just suggestions/recommendations...as words used in image on 1 of that letter in year 2020
Ha ha ha

Btw, in my own family alone has minimum 4 medical insurance plans cater for different sex and age. These medical plan are at least 15 yrs old.
There had been premium hike / repricing many many times, but never once did we sign any consent to agree to their suggested/recommended repricing. We don't hv to do anything, the CC statements will just confirm those hikes and I just had to input it into my family annual budget allocations planning
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that means you already presigned your consent to let them increase the premium however they want. You should never do that, you just waived away your consumer rights to the insurance company. Check back what you signed on documents, very important nod.gif
koja6049
post Oct 30 2025, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Oct 30 2025, 12:39 PM)
It is very simple, ...check your policy, if there is a mention that
premium is fixed or cannot be change.
Check your policy, if there is a clause that mention that your consent is required for any premium repricing.
I believes BNM just stipulated that they need to gives you notice in advance prior to any changes.
In the contract, I think there is the mention of projected sustainability period for the stated premium.....just "projected", thus the premium can be changed to keep abreast with other cost increases or prolong until the next projected sustainability period.

If you did not want the auto reoccurrence features, then don't use CC to pay.
Auto reoccurrence feature helps to keep your insurance active by not have to remember to pay on due dates
Pay with auto debit feature of GIRO "standing instruction". Any change of that instructed amount, it will not deduct your bank account.
Or pay manually.

If you are on terms insurance, ...beware your policy does not hv cash value features, which would /may auto lapse your policy if full amount "suggested" is not followed. ( you need to confirm that with your insurance company for that)
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no, it's the other way round. Unless you signed away your rights and let them change the premiums however they want. If not, then they have to get your consent before changing the premium. Silence does not mean consent
koja6049
post Oct 30 2025, 06:57 PM

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QUOTE(JIUHWEI @ Oct 30 2025, 04:45 PM)
Okay bro I bagi cara ya:

You request for the agent to first show you the repricing correspondence letter.
There should be a suggested premium amount there or what is the new premium that will be charged.
The insurer has to notify you 3 months in advance before actually charging you the new COI or premiums.

Then you can also request for a Sustainability Quotation.
Yes, want to change the premiums to increase the sustainability of the policy.
How much to increase to what age?
Gather the information first, then you decide.
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decide = get my consent, right? Without consent, or even with my objection, can the insurer just force their way to increase my premium? Does it work this way?

So far I know AIA and Prudential does not work this way smile.gif
koja6049
post Oct 30 2025, 07:18 PM

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QUOTE(JIUHWEI @ Oct 30 2025, 07:08 PM)
Yes.

So there is 1) the premium and 2) the COI.

The insurer cannot force your hand on the premium.
But the insurer must notify you on the changes in COI before they charge you.

Keyword: notify

Refusing to do anything to the premium, does not mean the insurer cannot charge you the revised COI rates.
The policy will then be subject to a lower sustainability.

I'm just showing you how it works ya.

On the flip side, even if the insurer increases your premium without consulting with you, you still retain the right to move it back to the original premium via writing in.
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THERE IT IS.

Like I said, insurers cannot just change the premium the next day whenever they feel like it. If I agree to pay RM400 then it will always be RM400 until I change my mind.

COI is another story. Yes the contract says that they can change the COI. But COI is not entirely related to the premium, because there is also the investment part. What if the investment part can cover the COI increase? Then why do I need to increase my premiums?

Some might say it is little difference. But to me it is a big difference. Money in my hand vs money in the ILP investment units are totally different things. I might consider to top up premiums if somehow the investment portion is doing badly, or I might consider to withdraw from the policy.
koja6049
post Oct 30 2025, 08:45 PM

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QUOTE(JIUHWEI @ Oct 30 2025, 07:41 PM)
Hmmm...afaik, Insurance companies' investment arms are among the most regulated lah.
No doubt there has been some years that surprised even me, but over the long term, it sticks quite closely to what's projected.
As it is, it is already uncommon for anyone to agree to pay above the minimum quotation for ILP policies with medical riders.
With COI hiking at the current rate now, the ones most affected are the customers who absolutely pushed for the lowest of low premiums for the highest of high coverages.
At the time of purchase, perhaps even patted themselves on their backs for their skill at kicking the can down the road.
Insurance is a numbers product. How far can numbers run?

Regarding fund performance
If you find that the investment portion is performing abnormally bad, perhaps consider fund switching before you withdraw from the policy entirely?
Again, please remember that you are buying insurance products for the coverage.
Because it is not an investment vehicle and it shouldn't be seen as such.
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yep, as you already said, we buy insurance as a protection expense, not an investment product. But many agents are pushing it as an investment product, even ask you to buy additional investment riders so called to cover your COI increase. I hope you can feedback this back to your colleagues that this is very bad unethical practice.

My principle is this: as along as there are units to deduct, then deduct those units, don't come to ask for more money from me. You can inform me of the projected sustainability, but never force me to put in more money just to maintain the sustainability, let me make my own choice whistling.gif

 

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