Update:

The 2 old tyres were never rotated but stay at the same rear corners throughout its life of 110-115K km.

Both exhibit even wear (between inside and outside edges) with (mild uneven) heel-toe wear around their circumferences, inside and outside.

Prior to free wheel alignment check, the alignment technician test drove the Avanza and found alignment ok. He too couldn't sense or detect the loosened RHS Front rack end assembly (which I didn't disclose to him).

I am wondering why the Front Left ride height is registered lower by 13 mm at 808 mm compared to Front Right of 821 mm?





Why would current Front cambers (after about 15 months or 25K kms travel) of Left -0°42' (Previous -0°15') and Right -0°49' (Previous -0°15') have such a huge difference by up to negative -61' combined?

The change in Front toes could probably be explained by change in Total Front Cambers during the 15 months, I supposed.

For the purpose of summary of alignment readings:
Front Cambers are -0°42' (Left) and -0°49' (Right) with Front Total Cambers of -1°31';

Front Toes are -0°01' toe-out (Left) and +0°03' toe-in (Right) with Front Total Toes of +0°02';

Rear Cambers are -0°10' (Left) and -0°03' (Right) with Rear Total Cambers of -0°13'; and,

Rear Toes are -0°09' toe-out (Left) and +0°03' toe-in (Right) with Rear Total Toes of -0°06' .

Previous rear alignment angle readings were unknown.

This post has been edited by zeng: Apr 20 2022, 09:11 PM

there is no problem with your camber, but your toe is not aligned and balanced, sometime worn out bushing/rubber over time will affect the alignment, loose nut too will affect alignment, any weight added or taken out from the car will affect the alignment, but as long as your car still drive in a straight line and no issue with tyre wear then you're fine

camber cant be changed, there is no point to worry about it especially when it is still less than -0.5 per side

never look at total toe/camber, only look at per side
never look at total toe/camber, only look at per side
never look at total toe/camber, only look at per side

Thanks.

You have a valid point is suggesting there is no problem with my cambers, where being a live rear axle design the Rear cambers are non-adjustable without some kind of mods like shimming rear axle/hubs.

Besides, I had a known (to me) loosened free play at my Right front rack end assembly reported earlier on and I won't get to enjoy this free alignment checking but to pay up RM30 for alignment adjustment if I wish front suspension angles adjusted or altered at the time
..... which doesn't make sense for the loosened suspension parts at the moment.

However, since 15 months ago (of about 25K-27K kms) my Avanza has been drifting/veering slightly to the Left whilst driving straight ahead on straight roads/hiways and it has been capable of occupying the whole of left hand side lane in about 7-9 seconds with both hands temporarily off the steering wheel.
I'm bearing with this slight irritants/nuisance for now.

This irritant is, imho partly caused by the front and rear cambers namely:
Front Cambers -0°42'(Left) and -0°49'(Right); and
Rear Cambers -0°10'(Left) and -0°03'(Right).

Note:The front and rear toes seem to incline to pull the vehicle towards the Right imo but it is somehow being neutralized and overcome by the Left leaning cambers.

Correcting/adjusting the front cambers may give me a chance of getting the vehicle tracking straighter, if not rock solid straight, I believe.

Yes, cambers and toes in wheel alignment speak are normally look at or assessed on the per side (Left or Right) basis. Imho, this approach is premised upon and based on the ideal conditions that Left/Right cambers or toes on the same (Front or Rear) axle are always exactly equal at the same value whereby the Cross cambers and Cross toes (i.e left camber/toe Minus right camber/toe) are always Zero in an ideal world.

But alas, the real world is always not ideal whereby Left side cambers and toes are NOT exactly equal and same as the Right side cambers or toes on the same axle, all the more so with non-adjustable Rear Torsion Beam and current Rear solid live axles.

In the super majority of Asian cars and some Continental cars (including that of segments C and D cars) the stock original front strut system does not have provision for camber adjustment too (Edit: Strut bolts at stock original condition), i.e not ideal.

Hence I prefer to read suspension alignment angles in the perspective of Front/Rear Total cambers/toes.

Equally important is Cross cambers and Cross toes which is typically not exactly Zero in real world, but that is another different topic for another day.

For example referring to my Avanza's current suspension angles I intend to increase my Front Total Toes of +0°02' to say a range from +0°04' to +0°08' to overcome current driving experience of wobbling/loose/unsteady steering wheel movement on tekan-minyak acceleration in a curve or corner.
Exactly what Front camber/toe angles to adopt shall be influenced by the prevailing Rear cambers/toes angles at point of alignment adjustment.

Similarly one way to counter the Avanza propensity to oversteer on cornering experienced currently is to make/adjust my Rear Total cambers of -0°13' to be more negative like -0°30' or -1°00'.
Meanwhile, current Rear Total Toes of -0°06' is real real bad for oversteer phenomenon.

I found the road to modding Avanza rear live axle in Klang Valley for improved Rear suspension angles is slow, difficult and rather frustrating. Having said that , there is a far away (300+ km) JB alignment shop recommended above by @nightlordccc79 keeps the weak flame and hope alive.

This post has been edited by zeng: Apr 16 2022, 12:19 PM

i dont know if you check all your bush and joints, worn out bushing will progressively make your alignment worst even though the mechanic adjust nicely on the machine, the moment you go back home the alignment can be screwed up by the worn out bushing or loose nuts

non adjustable camber on most car is a good thing, if the camber out of aligned that's mean you have a bushing problem, suspension problem or a loose parts somewhere, because camber is non-adjustable so there is one less thing to worry about, so if my car has a drift problem when driving straight or vibration/loose steering, i will jack up the car, take out the wheel to inspect for worn out/loose parts rather than going to have my alignment done

if you think your total toe/camber is that significant, mine is running at a toe of -0.2 at front, 0.1 at rear, total camber -3 front and -2 rear, while still keep the thrust angle at 0, you can have right toe at 0 and left toe at -0.1 you still get total toe of -0.1 while what you should aim for is -0.05 each side

Hi all Sifu , mind share what is the best toe setting for cruising highway ?

keep at stock settings, usually is front and rear toe-in at about 0.5, square setup

I should have clarified earlier on that the sets of Lower Control Arm, outer tie-rod ends, shock absorbers, absorber links and sway bar bushes for the Front axle and Rear shock absorber sets were all replaced some 25k kms ago in December 2020 at a cost of some RM1750 .

However, all 4 absorber top mounts and front steering rack end assemblies were not replaced then, from which Front right rack end is currently found loosened (some 2 weeks ago) and yet to be replaced.

I'm from the camp of non-adjustable front/rear cambers and rear toes (commonly found in Front MacPherson and Rear Torsion Beam or solid fixed axle) is a bad thing in the context of flexibility in making adjustments to suspension alignment angles in individual tyre, hence leading to generally much lousier and less enjoyable driving experience or pleasure but hey..... it is cheaper to purchase and maintain compared to a complex independent rear and front suspensions normally found in very pricy segment D continental cars.

Interesting that you have front (total?) toe of -0.2 (degree or is it mm?) and cambers at -3° and -2°. Mind sharing what car this belongs to and how is highway high speed straight ahead driving experience, wobbly or steady?

Not sure whether the 0.5 refers to unit in mm or decimal degree or degree/minute?

Hello friends I'm back. After going trips from JB to KL. I notice my car like to swerve left and right. But not in a consistent pace, its intermittent. Let's say I keep the steering straight, the car will swerve right then suddenly swerve left as the steering is Abit loose. I don't know if it's due to the shim job. Gonna check soon. I did found a good high speed balancing shop at KL Ampang - VK TYRES Auto Services.

Shimming job at Rear Torsion Beam of your second gen Myvi only alters its rear suspension angles. Whether or not it gives the car good and ideal alignment angles would be revealed through the 'new' rear suspension angles AFTER completion of shimming job during the subsequent wheel alignment job proper.

Since you couldn't provide us the Before/After alignment angles of Front/Rear axles, we wouldn't be sure of its finishings and quality but your feedback thus far seems to suggest things are fine here.

The swerving left and right or loose steering wheel (at high speeds?) phenomenon you are reporting is directly caused by the subsequent wheel alignment job I believe and NOT really caused by the rear torsion beam shimming job per se although both are inter-related to each other.

If I were you, I would revisit the Kempas alignment shop (not shimming shop, if they are separate shop) about your findings to check and re-do alignment to correct or mitigate the swerving left and swerving right thing.

In December 2020 I revisited the Seremban alignment shop about 2 weeks later for re-alignment and I wasn't made to pay for the second job.

Imho most likely your front suspension angles require some fine-tuning adjustment .

Hope it helps.

This post has been edited by zeng: Apr 19 2022, 11:55 AM

Having adjustable camber or not doesn't make a car nicer or lousier to drive, having fixed camber means there is one less thing to worry about when doing alignment

Independent suspension doesn't mean you will have adjustable camber, and anything that is adjustable means it will come loose at some point

I'm driving Mazda 3 2014 with adjustable suspension hence I can get more camber for the front using slotting, but only at less than -1.5 degree, my car is always straight and steady within the car slide limit, this is why reading per side whole doing alignment is more important and my thrust angle is always 0

Camber only help in cornering and in fact too much camber is bad for straight line stability and braking because too much camber will reduce the traction when the car is going straight, and it also cause uneven wear from the tyres, this is why most cars come with a near 0 camber and at most less than -1 degree

Car drifting can be cause by uneven tyres wear, type of tyres and uneven corner weight too, and since you said one of your rack end is loose it is time to inspect and replace if necessary along with the top mount

My measurement is always in degree, since alignment machine show degree by default

Folks, watch your car rear wheel alignment #s .......



Source: Total Vehicle Alignment

In all cars, what is the:

a )Minimum;

b )Maximum, and

c )Optimum

tyre pressures recommended/allowed AND safe ???

Is it measured Cold or Hot?

Link

How Different Types of Suspension System Works? Explained in Details
by The Engineers Post

06:53 Types of Suspension System;
07:08 Independent suspension system;
08:00 Types of ISS;
08:11 a) MacPherson Strut Suspension type;
09:12 b) Double Wishbone Suspension type;
10:01 c) Multi-link Suspension type;
10:38 d) Trailing Arm Suspension type;
11:11 Non Independent or Rigid Axle Suspension System;
11:50 a) Solid Axle Leaf Spring Suspension type;
12:38 b) Solid Axle Coil Spring Suspension type;
13:19 c) Air Suspension type;
13:57 d) Hydro Elastic Suspension type;


15:13

Edit:
Semi-independent suspension system - (Rear) Torsion Beam Coil Spring type?????

This post has been edited by zeng: Oct 23 2022, 10:18 AM

How does the Steering Wheel automatically returns to its centre?

by Lesics



This post has been edited by zeng: Nov 12 2022, 04:38 PM

without independant suspension, we still can adjust tyre air pressure to overcome him

For the first time, I visited Kee Hin (Jalan Klang Lama) yesterday at 2.45 pm for a wheel alignment job with complaints/nuisance of my 2007 Avanza pulls/drifts to the left by itself on straight roads/highways AND steering wheel cocks or off centre to the Right whilst driving/tracking straight ahead with firm steering input.

In total contrary to @ceo684 opinion, I had a totally opposite or different and nasty alignment experience with them.

It is completely unprofessional and a rubbish wheel alignment job I get from them with my vehicle pulls to Left AND steering wheel off centre to Right problems remains totally unresolved with warranty being denied.

A more detailed and complete explanation on this nasty experience of mine with Kee Hin will follow here.

Note:
Base on my recent wheel alignment experience, the workmanship of Speed City Tyre & Trading Sdn Bhd, Jln Tok Ungku, Seremban in December 2020 (2 times, with second time being a warranty repeat job) and a wheel alignment check by Tyreplus -SL Car Care, Klang (at no charge to me) in March this year 2022 are far far better and a lot more professional and accurate than KH.

Edit: Add google address.

This post has been edited by zeng: Dec 24 2022, 10:31 AM

Toyota vios kena bang left side tyre , go alignment test, found out rear LR alightment value is negative 1.65 and 1.35, technician said they can’t adjust it, in long run tyre will makan dalam,so ask suggestion here, stay in JB

This post has been edited by wong_86: Dec 31 2022, 06:44 PM

What model year is your Vios and what's the numbers for individual Rear toes and Front toes?

Your technician comment on rear cambers of -1.65° left and -1.35° right is Internet 'wisdom' popularly published ........ which sometimes is NOT true for one of the rear tyres.

Your rear toes of Left and Right tyre will reveal angles that actually cause 'accelerated' rear tyre wear, either even wear or uneven wear pattern.

For reduced wear rate, it is essential to adjust rear toes rather than the rear cambers, which in your case the rear cambers provides greater safety and vehicle stability in taking corners or turning. The chances of 'dangerous' oversteer phenomenon is reduced considerably in your case.

Hence, do consider keeping the existing rear cambers but have the rear toes adjusted to minimal positive toe in's, if you so wish.

The technician is correct in saying the rear toes and cambers in a Vios can't be adjusted, with toyota parts or by service centres.

However, it can be done with shim method which fortunately is available for you in a Kempas JB wheel alignment shop.

Go to Post #2 (or is it Post #1) of this thread, under list of alignment shops ..... look out for some contact details of the shop.... which i think is Jettsin or something.

Edit: The front individual toes can influence whether it is outer edge wear or inner edge wear on rear tyres with excessive Rear Total and individual Toes.

Excessive rear negative cambers does influence whether it is outer or inner edge wear, BUT in itself does NOT cause excessive tyre edge wear if you know what I mean.

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 2 2023, 11:39 AM

Model Vios GX

Yeah, yesterady morning i just went there ( Jetsiin auto in Kempas industri area), i presumes is ah Bao, give me two solution, change the axle or shim the camber, i took second solution.
It took near 2 hour to fix the rear left alightment, 4-5 times mount and unmount the tyre, add or reduce the washer, finally the value is toe 0.2, chamber -1.2, all front and rear green color.

He charges RM80 shim camber, RM30 alighment, which is very reasonable, he did it very professional, also remind me pay attention if replace the bearing, big kudos to him

This post has been edited by wong_86: Jan 2 2023, 03:55 PM

Wow.. 4-5 times of mount and unmount of tyres with nearly 2 hours. A shimming job could indeed be quite a 'headache' for a pro. Imo, RM80 for shimming is really value for money for owners of cars whose rear axle is either Rear Torsion Beam or live solid axle - in which the Rear cambers and toes is supposedly not adjustable.

+0.20° Rear Total Toes would be having normal tyre wear rate, even at rear cambers of -1.20° or more negative.

However, if individual rear toe for one side is +0.20° with the other side about the same ...... then you're going to have 'accelerated' abnormal rear tyre wear rate despite of less negative rear camber of -1.20°.

Hence you may want to ascertain that the +0.20° mentioned is Rear Total Toes.

Yes, it is Ah Bao whom I had contacted about my Avanza rear live axle shimming proposition. Unfortunately he is of the opinion shimming can't be done on my rear wheel drive RWD Avanza. 2-3 other mechanics I contacted has similar opinion as Ah Bao's.

However, I still believe shimming can be done on a Rear Wheel Drive Avanza like mine ..... hence the search continues ...... hopefully someone would do it for me in years to come.

Btw after current wheel alignment, do your steering wheel off to one side whilst driving straight ahead ?

Does the Vios drifts or pulls to one side without steering input?

This post has been edited by zeng: Jan 2 2023, 09:13 PM