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 Cheap AGM vs Branded EFB batteries

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e-lite
post Dec 25 2020, 03:05 PM

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I wouldn't recommend putting AGM battery in the engine bay. Heat is a killer of AGM battery. Usually all the AGM battery in OEM application is at the trunk
Roman Catholic
post Dec 25 2020, 09:00 PM

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QUOTE(e-lite @ Dec 25 2020, 03:05 PM)
I wouldn't recommend putting AGM battery in the engine bay. Heat is a killer of AGM battery. Usually all the AGM battery in OEM application is at the trunk
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X70 how ?
e-lite
post Dec 26 2020, 11:05 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Dec 25 2020, 09:00 PM)
X70 how ?
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I don't know about X70 because haven't seen it's engine bay before. Does X70 uses AGM out from factory?

As I know, some Volvo models have battery in engine bay, and some in trunk. So depends on application/design.
Roman Catholic
post Dec 26 2020, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(e-lite @ Dec 26 2020, 11:05 AM)
I don't know about X70 because haven't seen it's engine bay before. Does X70 uses AGM out from factory?

As I know, some Volvo models have battery in engine bay, and some in trunk. So depends on application/design.
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Yup its an AGM and its inside the engine bay on display in the showroom. I dont remember seeing it being insulated.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Dec 26 2020, 11:14 AM
e-lite
post Dec 26 2020, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Dec 26 2020, 11:13 AM)
Yup its an AGM and its inside the engine bay on display in the showroom. I dont remember seeing it being insulated.
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Sorry but I don't think that Proton X70 uses AGM. The pictures I found online doesn't point that the X70 uses AGM. And also the pictures doesn't show that there is a BMS for charging the battery (important to have BMS to charge AGM batteries)

Maybe X70 owners can clarify. Maybe they have different production models like CKD or CBU.

user posted image
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I saw online that Kia Rio uses AGM battery in engine bay. But life is significantly shorter than those European marques that uses AGM in trunk sweat.gif


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Roman Catholic
post Dec 26 2020, 11:35 AM

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QUOTE(e-lite @ Dec 26 2020, 11:32 AM)
Sorry but I don't think that Proton X70 uses AGM. The pictures I found online doesn't point that the X70 uses AGM. And also the pictures doesn't show that there is a BMS for charging the battery (important to have BMS to charge AGM batteries)

Maybe X70 owners can clarify. Maybe they have different production models like CKD or CBU.

user posted image
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I saw online that Kia Rio uses AGM battery in engine bay. But life is significantly shorter than those European marques that uses AGM in trunkย  sweat.gif
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That is really weird. I purposely went to see its battery upon launching and I remember seing the words AGM on it and even asking the SA how much did the X70 AGM battery costs ! But that CBU. Perhaps you are right they may have changed out for the CKD units.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Dec 26 2020, 11:36 AM
waghyu
post Dec 26 2020, 11:39 AM

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QUOTE(evilhomura89 @ Dec 21 2020, 09:44 AM)
Need some opinions here regarding start stop car batteries.
Generally the two types of car batteries needed for auto start stop to function is either EFB or AGM battery.

EFB - enhanced flooded battery
AGM - absorbent glass mat

I won't go into the details to explain the differences but it is already known that AGM in general is slightly more superior to EFB.

Now my question is, given the same budget, would you pay for cheap less popular brand AGM batteries (rocket, camel) or go for the branded EFB (varta, bosch)?
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go for cheap.
fireballs
post Dec 26 2020, 11:40 AM

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The best is to disable start stop function totally
Then you may use the normal battery. No need agm no need efb
e-lite
post Dec 26 2020, 11:42 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Dec 26 2020, 11:35 AM)
That is really weird. I purposely went to see its battery upon launching and I remember seing the words AGM on it and even asking the SA how much did the X70 AGM battery costs ! But that CBU. Perhaps you are right they may have changed out for the CKD units.
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Hahha, the beancounters dictates this. RM300 savings per battery x 100,000 units per year = RM30 mil per year already

If it was me, I would want all manufacturers to relocate battery away from engine bay for longer battery life. But manufacturer's think that the extra copper wire is wasting money cool2.gif
Roman Catholic
post Dec 26 2020, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(e-lite @ Dec 26 2020, 11:42 AM)
Hahha, the beancounters dictates this. RM300 savings  per battery x 100,000 units per year = RM30 mil per year already

If it was me, I would want all manufacturers to relocate battery away from engine bay for longer battery life. But manufacturer's think that the extra copper wire is wasting money  cool2.gif
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Couldn't agree more. ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘

But but boss got problem bos, what is going to happen to all those batteries sold under house name boss ? Lower sales boss like that. Boss accept ke ?
Roman Catholic
post Dec 26 2020, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(e-lite @ Dec 26 2020, 11:42 AM)
Hahha, the beancounters dictates this. RM300 savingsย  per battery x 100,000 units per year = RM30 mil per year already

If it was me, I would want all manufacturers to relocate battery away from engine bay for longer battery life. But manufacturer's think that the extra copper wire is wasting moneyย  cool2.gif
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Bro., I have a question do you think it is possible for the manufacturer to placed a sub-standard battery during manufacturing process but insists that the battery to be use must be of specific grade.

Example

During assembly, EFB batteries are used and for handover, however during 1st battery replacement to qualify for warranty insists that an AGM must be used instead. OR

Assembly, SLI batteries are used however to qualify for warranty insists that EFB batteries must be used instead.

All without the client's knowledge that a substandard battery was used.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Dec 26 2020, 03:30 PM
e-lite
post Dec 26 2020, 06:14 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Dec 26 2020, 02:58 PM)
Bro., I have a question do you think it is possible for the manufacturer to placed a sub-standard battery during manufacturing process but insists that the battery to be use must be of specific grade.

Example

During assembly, EFB batteries are used and for handover, however during 1st battery replacement to qualify for warranty insists that an AGM must be used instead. OR

Assembly, SLI batteries are used however to qualify for warranty insists that EFB batteries must be used instead.

All without the client's knowledge that a substandard battery was used.
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Bro, I don't know the answer to your question nod.gif

I'm just a fellow car enthusiast that hopes to see everyone gets the maximum number of engine starts/battery cycle for the lowest amount of cost. icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by e-lite: Dec 26 2020, 06:14 PM
Roman Catholic
post Dec 26 2020, 08:15 PM

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QUOTE(e-lite @ Dec 26 2020, 06:14 PM)
Bro, I don't know the answer to your question nod.gif

I'm just a fellow car enthusiast that hopes to see everyone gets the maximum number of engine starts/battery cycle for the lowest amount of cost.  icon_rolleyes.gif
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No worries bro. It was just a wild thought from our earlier messages and not singling out any manufacturer in particular.

Agree about the maximum battery cycle at an economical cost without sacrificing quality. I definately do not want the lowest priced battery without proper SOP & QC.
TSevilhomura89
post Dec 30 2020, 12:02 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Dec 23 2020, 12:36 PM)
No worries.

I had no idea its possible for some cheap AGM's to be slightly cheaper than high end EFB batteries. ๐Ÿ˜จ๐Ÿ˜จ๐Ÿ˜จ

Would be keen to know how your new Camel turns out. ๐Ÿ˜Š
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Yup was quoted 650 for varta EFB vs 615 for camel AGM DIN70
So I suppose no harm trying without any high expectations
As long as it starts the car fine, without any weird electrical gremlins, then it's good enough for me

Could be their market penetration strategy/promo as I saw the other cheaper brand, rocket AGM DIN70 is being sold at 750 on shopee



TSevilhomura89
post Dec 8 2024, 08:36 AM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Dec 23 2020, 12:36 PM)
No worries.

I had no idea its possible for some cheap AGM's to be slightly cheaper than high end EFB batteries. ๐Ÿ˜จ๐Ÿ˜จ๐Ÿ˜จ

Would be keen to know how your new Camel turns out. ๐Ÿ˜Š
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Hi there just thought of giving you an update since I'm starting to shop around for battery soon

The camel AGM that I bought when I started this thread is gonna hit 4 years old in few weeks time (end Dec 2020 till now). And I think it's gonna reach its end of life soon cause I noticed it doesn't fully charge anymore when using battery maintainer (Bosch C7). Guess it's time to do some preventive maintenance.

Meanwhile, I'm still thinking if should go back to camel or try Bosch Hightec AGM (600+ for LN3). For some reason, Bosch is selling cheaper nowadays but then I'm not sure who is the OEM manufacturer for Bosch AGM. Got any experience?

This post has been edited by evilhomura89: Dec 8 2024, 08:37 AM
Roman Catholic
post Dec 8 2024, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(evilhomura89 @ Dec 8 2024, 08:36 AM)
Hi there just thought of giving you an update since I'm starting to shop around for battery soon

The camel AGM that I bought when I started this thread is gonna hit 4 years old in few weeks time (end Dec 2020 till now). And I think it's gonna reach its end of life soon cause I noticed it doesn't fully charge anymore when using battery maintainer (Bosch C7). Guess it's time to do some preventive maintenance.

Meanwhile, I'm still thinking if should go back to camel or try Bosch Hightec AGM (600+ for LN3). For some reason, Bosch is selling cheaper nowadays but then I'm not sure who is the OEM manufacturer for Bosch AGM. Got any experience?
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You are right, since the external charger doesn't fully charge the battery any longer, it can implied that there is something wrong with the battery or it could be something is wrong with the charger too. Only a battery tester can confirm if the problem is the battery or not.

Batteries like all things are perishable in a certain way, that is why these old stocks will regularly be on sale. Bosch Batteries are made in Europe and in China too, so most likely the Bosch Batteries here would be from China. But who exactly produces Bosch Batteries under licensed in China, I have no idea.

Based on my experience, I would just scrap it, as it's futile trying to revive what is confirmed to be degrading. If you want to experiment, you can try to squeeze out until the last drop of it's capacity and it won't go more than 2 months, if its confirmed to be degrading. Plus there is a very high chance of damaging the efficiency of the electrical charging system.

I had no idea that there was even a thread cheap AGM vs branded EFB. They are not even comparable, they are like apple and orange. If my new vehicle came with an AGM Battery, I would only consider an EFB, provided the my car manufacturer had stated that in writing. Otherwise I think it's suicidal. If got 2.6 billion donated into my account, want to use lower battery construction, no problem la. Even if they are priced in the same range, it does not mean that they are interchangeable.

This post has been edited by Roman Catholic: Dec 8 2024, 09:54 AM

 

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