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> Financial Engineering, Does it have future in Malaysia?

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TSPohziliang96
post Nov 13 2020, 12:06 AM, updated 7 months ago

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I'm still considering taking this course in MMU.
I knew that nothing is assured or guaranteed in future.
But how useful it can become in the future in Malaysia?

It is quite interesting since I will learn the C++ language as part of the course. But how significant is C++ language in Malaysia's financial industry?
I wish to do equity research or corporate finance.

(Compared with ACCA, which one is better for the job? And between Accounting and Financial Engineering(Financial modelling etc.), which one is more feasible to be learnt by oneself?)

This post has been edited by Pohziliang96: Nov 13 2020, 12:09 AM
littlegamer
post Nov 13 2020, 12:20 AM

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Had a friend took that same year as me, end up not engineer not business degree. Nor here nor there.

If you want be specialized do it now. At work field, u dive into even more specialization
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 13 2020, 12:29 AM

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QUOTE(littlegamer @ Nov 13 2020, 12:20 AM)
Had a friend took that same year as me, end up not engineer not business degree. Nor here nor there.

If you want be specialized do it now. At work field, u dive into even more specialization
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So you mean...... it’s all about the timing?
NorAzdanNordin
post Nov 13 2020, 12:38 AM

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Short answer, no, financial engineering is not in high demand in Malaysia.

My advice, stick with normal financial things, specialise when you start work.

It’s very risky to start specialising in your studies as then you narrow your career choice.
abc2005
post Nov 13 2020, 12:42 AM

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C++ is not widely used in finance or banking. In financial industry, they use mostly SAS and Excel for modeling.

If you are into finance, I'd recommend having a look at CFA curriculum before deciding on whether to take your mentioned financial engineering course.
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 13 2020, 12:51 AM

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QUOTE(abc2005 @ Nov 13 2020, 12:42 AM)
C++ is not widely used in finance or banking. In financial industry, they use mostly SAS and Excel for modeling.

If you are into finance, I'd recommend having a look at CFA curriculum before deciding on whether to take your mentioned financial engineering course.
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CFA is good. But I have not studied bachelor degree...... And Financial Engineering is the degree that’s interesting


This post has been edited by Pohziliang96: Nov 13 2020, 12:53 AM
abc2005
post Nov 13 2020, 01:00 AM

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QUOTE(Pohziliang96 @ Nov 13 2020, 12:51 AM)
But I have not studied bachelor degree...... And Financial Engineering is the degree that’s interesting
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It doesn't matter. Get hold of a degree first that contains numerical subjects, whatever it is as you will need to understand the fundamentals like probability and statistics, time value of money and amortisation, financial modeling etc...
In the meantime, learn up the CFA curriculum if you are interested in whatever you mentioned above to know more about equities and corporate finance.
Btw, you can only take CFA exams as a degree holder smile.gif
littlegamer
post Nov 13 2020, 01:16 AM

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QUOTE(Pohziliang96 @ Nov 13 2020, 12:29 AM)
So you mean...... it’s all about the timing?
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Specializing.
Justin Wong
post Nov 13 2020, 06:34 AM

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QUOTE(Pohziliang96 @ Nov 13 2020, 12:06 AM)
I'm still considering taking this course in MMU.
I knew that nothing is assured or guaranteed in future.
But how useful it can become in the future in Malaysia?

It is quite interesting since I will learn the C++ language as part of the course. But how significant is C++ language in Malaysia's financial industry?
I wish to do equity research or corporate finance.

(Compared with ACCA, which one is better for the job? And between Accounting and Financial Engineering(Financial modelling etc.), which one is more feasible to be learnt by oneself?)
*
The language is just a tool and the focus is about learning the concepts behind financial engineering using the tool - it could be other tools like excel VBA (VBA and R are very common for financial engineering as long as data points are not too large) and if you are into the latest trend, Python. For example, you can easily build a simple binomial model for option pricing with just an excel sheet or you can solve a debt optimization problem in a project finance scenario using VBA by way of a simple loop. The only reason C++ may be used is due to its processing speed in certain situations (i.e., trading strategy executions where timing is crucial) but i digress.

Financial engineering as a profession is still pretty niche in Malaysia as the most relevant role would be financial product design (think of the infamous CDO or CDO squared) or credit modelling, which doesn't seem to have a big market in Malaysia given that Malaysia is not a major financial hub like Singapore/HK/London. Besides, my experience tells me that employers tend to prefer candidates who are trained in actuarial sciences for financial product design or financial risk management roles because the curriculum is more mathematically rigorous and recognized.

If your interest is in equity research or corporate finance, then I would say ACCA or CFA will be more relevant because knowing financial statements and equity valuation concepts are more important. Financial engineering tends to lend itself better towards fixed income research since it is structured-product focus with more mathematical mechanics behind it. I would also say that ACCA / CFA is also more relevant if you want to do financial modelling (which i assume you are referring to 'business modelling' which includes constructing financial statement projections of a business/project, and that includes debt structuring).

If you merely want to get a degree for the sake of getting a degree however, then I guess there is no harm since you should spend your time and money studying something you are genuinely interested.

This post has been edited by Justin Wong: Nov 13 2020, 06:57 AM
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 13 2020, 08:48 AM

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QUOTE(Justin Wong @ Nov 13 2020, 06:34 AM)
The language is just a tool and the focus is about learning the concepts behind financial engineering using the tool - it could be other tools like excel VBA (VBA and R are very common for financial engineering as long as data points are not too large) and if you are into the latest trend, Python. For example, you can easily build a simple binomial model for option pricing with just an excel sheet or you can solve a debt optimization problem in a project finance scenario using VBA by way of a simple loop. The only reason C++ may be used is due to its processing speed in certain situations (i.e., trading strategy executions where timing is crucial) but i digress.

Financial engineering as a profession is still pretty niche in Malaysia as the most relevant role would be financial product design (think of the infamous CDO or CDO squared) or credit modelling, which doesn't seem to have a big market in Malaysia given that Malaysia is not a major financial hub like Singapore/HK/London. Besides, my experience tells me that employers tend to prefer candidates who are trained in actuarial sciences for financial product design or financial risk management roles because the curriculum is more mathematically rigorous and recognized.

If your interest is in equity research or corporate finance, then I would say ACCA or CFA will be more relevant because knowing financial statements and equity valuation concepts are more important. Financial engineering tends to lend itself better towards fixed income research since it is structured-product focus with more mathematical mechanics behind it. I would also say that ACCA / CFA is also more relevant if you want to do financial modelling (which i assume you are referring to 'business modelling' which includes constructing financial statement projections of a business/project, and that includes debt structuring).

If you merely want to get a degree for the sake of getting a degree however, then I guess there is no harm since you should spend your time and money studying something you are genuinely interested.
*
Thanks for your advice!
otai_g
post Nov 13 2020, 11:33 AM

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what shit of this cost name?
can easily use engineering words?
this engineering disciplined are not recognized by board of engineering.
please use other name.
financial analysis as example.
Justin Wong
post Nov 13 2020, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(otai_g @ Nov 13 2020, 11:33 AM)
what shit of this cost name?
can easily use engineering words?
this engineering disciplined are not recognized by board of engineering.
please use other name.
financial analysis as example.
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It is not exactly financial analysis because pure financial engineering involves creating financial products using high-level mathematics which may include programming.

The studies of financial engineering already exist since the 90s and it is an established profession where there are professional associations for it. (Maybe not in Malaysia). Using examples in Singapore, both NUS and NTU offer master-level courses containing the term 'Financial Engineering' as well.

Some people recognize it better as 'Quantitative Finance'.
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 13 2020, 02:36 PM

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QUOTE(otai_g @ Nov 13 2020, 11:33 AM)
what shit of this cost name?
can easily use engineering words?
this engineering disciplined are not recognized by board of engineering.
please use other name.
financial analysis as example.
*
Yeah. Engineering= Designing and building.

In the financial industry, those financial institutions would also construct some products/derivatives to be sold.

One of the examples is CDS(Credit default swap) during the 08’ financial crisis.
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 13 2020, 07:02 PM

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ACCA or CFA?

If I had to choose one to step into investment banking?(ecm, equity research, cf)
dreamfasten
post Nov 13 2020, 08:26 PM

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funny.
financial oso got engineering
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 13 2020, 11:18 PM

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QUOTE(dreamfasten @ Nov 13 2020, 08:26 PM)
funny.
financial oso got engineering
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Yeah, it's engineering in finance. They construct something to be sold. Just like how engineer builds a house or a building.

This post has been edited by Pohziliang96: Nov 14 2020, 12:00 AM
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 14 2020, 09:19 AM

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.

This post has been edited by Pohziliang96: Nov 14 2020, 09:26 AM
coldbasecamp
post Nov 14 2020, 10:26 AM

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The course is more towards using data and process it with sophisticated approach to make an informed business decision.

Some of my friends who studied for this course ended up not applying much from the studies, however due to the "IT" background they can easily apply for BA (business analyst).
wct
post Nov 14 2020, 11:03 AM

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Graduated in this course 10 years ago. What I can say is this course is only touching the fundamentals of each subjects and cover too many aspects which makes it not specific enough for your future job scope. Would suggest to go into actuarial science if you ever thought of taking this course.
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 14 2020, 11:16 AM

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QUOTE(wct @ Nov 14 2020, 11:03 AM)
Graduated in this course 10 years ago. What I can say is this course is only touching the fundamentals of each subjects and cover too many aspects which makes it not specific enough for your future job scope. Would suggest to go into actuarial science if you ever thought of taking this course.
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Thanks for your insight on this course. I would make consideration before deciding......
I also found another comment in another forum. Yeah just like what you said, the graduates don't have a deep grasp of programming and other things.....

Looks like I would have to choose ACCA instead of this

This post has been edited by Pohziliang96: Nov 14 2020, 11:21 AM
tishaban
post Nov 14 2020, 12:11 PM

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Not directly related but I did this as a masters degree many years ago, but not in Malaysia and with a computer science background. As a degree you'll probably need to focus a lot on the programming and math side before the financial engineering bit makes sense in my opinion.

For those who already have some interest/knowledge in financial engineering you can do something hands on for example with QuantConnect and actually make some decent pocket money if your'e good enough. I used to follow Quantopian but sadly they were acquired and closed down recently

Maria Takagi
post Nov 14 2020, 12:27 PM

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Computer language, you need to keep update your cert qualification after degree. If you no practice and update, the knowledge will go obsolete.

I don't know if MMU use chim chim language to attraction for the course sign up. Check out the subjects and electives offered and compare with ordinary accountancy degree and also ACCA. get a friend or relative who is familary with account industry and ask what each subject offered is about.

Since TS has not disclose the list of subjects offered, I don't really know what this degree is about. All I know is, IT and programmers hardly work closely with finance people. Unless...Unless...they are into ERP like Oracle or SAP or other obscure ERPs like Microsoft Dynamics. Even then, do you need to know C++ ?? SAP is run by ABAP

In today's world, esp in Msia, financial modelling is very much generated by excel spread sheets. Unless you're into Data management, but that's wholly unrelated to accounting, perhaps big telcos like Maxis or Bank Negara require data modelling for population or prospective client wants. SAP tries to come up with their own budgeting system, but I've seen theirs, doesn't even come close, a lot of limitations in my opinion. Same for Oracle's one.

Corporate Finance is very interesting subject. I am not very familiar with this, but from what I know, big GLCs and corporations in Msia need Corporate Finance dept to do their listing, financing in Bursa, etc. But its a very niche industry, not many job demands out there.

Equity research, this is very interesting. I once wanted to take up this course. But in Msia, we're facing a lot of competition from Artificial Intelligence. Remiesers are slowly getting outphased. People who want to get analysis reports no longer have to dial up respective remiesers and ask them for info, because they can ask question via the phone, and AI will reply. That's all I know lah, I am still not familiar in this industry.
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 14 2020, 12:46 PM

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QUOTE(Maria Takagi @ Nov 14 2020, 12:27 PM)
Computer language, you need to keep update your cert qualification after degree. If you no practice and update, the knowledge will go obsolete.

I don't know if MMU use chim chim language to attraction for the course sign up. Check out the subjects and electives offered and compare with ordinary accountancy degree and also ACCA. get a friend or relative who is familary with account industry and ask what each subject offered is about.

Since TS has not disclose the list of subjects offered, I don't really know what this degree is about. All I know is, IT and programmers hardly work closely with finance people. Unless...Unless...they are into ERP like Oracle or SAP or other obscure ERPs like Microsoft Dynamics. Even then, do you need to know C++ ?? SAP is run by ABAP

In today's world, esp in Msia, financial modelling is very much generated by excel spread sheets. Unless you're into Data management, but that's wholly unrelated to accounting, perhaps big telcos like Maxis or Bank Negara require data modelling for population or prospective client wants. SAP tries to come up with their own budgeting system, but I've seen theirs, doesn't even come close, a lot of limitations in my opinion. Same for Oracle's one.

Corporate Finance is very interesting subject. I am not very familiar with this, but from what I know, big GLCs and corporations in Msia need Corporate Finance dept to do their listing, financing in Bursa, etc. But its a very niche industry, not many job demands out there.

Equity research, this is very interesting. I once wanted to take up this course. But in Msia, we're facing a lot of competition from Artificial Intelligence. Remiesers are slowly getting outphased. People who want to get analysis reports no longer have to dial up respective remiesers and ask them for info, because they can ask question via the phone, and AI will reply. That's all I know lah, I am still not familiar in this industry.
*
Yup, sooner or later remisiers will be replaced by AI in customer service.
Thanks!
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 22 2020, 06:02 AM

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Does ACCA or ICAEW help in equity research and analysis?

This post has been edited by Pohziliang96: Nov 22 2020, 08:30 PM
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 22 2020, 08:31 PM

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Does ACCA or ICAEW help in equity research and analysis?
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 22 2020, 10:20 PM

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QUOTE(coldbasecamp @ Nov 14 2020, 10:26 AM)
The course is more towards using data and process it with sophisticated approach to make an informed business decision.

Some of my friends who studied for this course ended up not applying much from the studies, however due to the "IT" background they can easily apply for BA (business analyst).
*
May I know what do business analysts do?
How do they apply their IT knowledge in business management?
coldbasecamp
post Nov 22 2020, 11:03 PM

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QUOTE(Pohziliang96 @ Nov 22 2020, 10:20 PM)
May I know what do business analysts do?
How do they apply their IT knowledge in business management?
*
In general, business analyst elicit system requirements from product owners, liaise with developers, manage the project, and ensure the system is developed according to the specifications.

Without IT knowledge, the learning curve can be high as you have to understand different IT jargons as you progress.
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 23 2020, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(coldbasecamp @ Nov 22 2020, 11:03 PM)
In general, business analyst elicit system requirements from product owners, liaise with developers, manage the project, and ensure the system is developed according to the specifications.

Without IT knowledge, the learning curve can be high as you have to understand different IT jargons as you progress.
*
Thanks
Topace111
post Nov 23 2020, 03:22 PM

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QUOTE(Pohziliang96 @ Nov 22 2020, 06:02 AM)
Does ACCA or ICAEW help in equity research and analysis?
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Short answer no. Equity research (sell or buy side) requires you to do research by gathering data. Data includes financial results that is available publicly (this is where ACCA/ icaew) knowledge provides you some familiarity when you were tasked to gather the right information. Other information are non financial such as industry metrics, market data or customer survey. Each industry has its own niche.

CFA is more relevant as it covers more areas that is relevant to a portfolio manager that is more similar to equity research than an accountant.

Either way, even if you have ACCA/icaew or CFA for that matter, that does not give you an automatic ticket to get recruited to top funds houses as most require sufficient working experience as they have a very small team. More luck with small institutions. By the time you get it, you may find it too troublesome to match other opportunities.
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 23 2020, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(Topace111 @ Nov 23 2020, 03:22 PM)
Short answer no. Equity research (sell or buy side) requires you to do research by gathering data. Data includes financial results that is available publicly (this is where ACCA/ icaew) knowledge provides you some familiarity when you were tasked to gather the right information. Other information are non financial such as industry metrics, market data or customer survey. Each industry has its own niche.

CFA is more relevant as it covers more areas that is relevant to a portfolio manager that is more similar to equity research than an accountant.

Either way, even if you have ACCA/icaew or CFA for that matter, that does not give you an automatic ticket to get recruited to top funds houses as most require sufficient working experience as they have a very small team. More luck with small institutions. By the time you get it, you may find it too troublesome to match other opportunities.
*
Thanks! I will contemplate before I make any decision.
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 26 2020, 03:47 AM

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Bump
xylemxvessel
post Nov 26 2020, 02:33 PM

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I am ex-student of MMU who took financial engineering. Graduated for 5 years already but now working as research analyst. To be honest, if you are not a person who loves calculation and programming a lot, then don't waste your time and effort. Just go for normal finance courses. The difference between normal finance course and FE in MMU is just that FE has more calculation courses such as Calculus and IT course such as programming. But the C++ programming is just very basic. If you like C++ might as you take it outside and go depth in it.
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 26 2020, 05:42 PM

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QUOTE(xylemxvessel @ Nov 26 2020, 02:33 PM)
I am ex-student of MMU who took financial engineering. Graduated for 5 years already but now working as research analyst. To be honest, if you are not a person who loves calculation and programming a lot, then don't waste your time and effort. Just go for normal finance courses. The difference between normal finance course and FE in MMU is just that FE has more calculation courses such as Calculus and IT course such as programming. But the C++ programming is just very basic. If you like C++ might as you take it outside and go depth in it.
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Does it give you an edge over other graduates? Because you can apply those things better than others. And how did you manage to get a job as an analyst? Mind to share some tips?

And what is it like studying in Cyberjaya? I heard that things are expensive there.
Are lecturers in MMU helpful?

This post has been edited by Pohziliang96: Nov 26 2020, 05:51 PM
wct
post Nov 26 2020, 05:46 PM

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QUOTE(Pohziliang96 @ Nov 26 2020, 05:42 PM)
Does it give you an edge over other graduates? Because you can apply those things better than others.

And what is it like studying in Cyberjaya? I heard that things are expensive there.
Are lecturers in MMU helpful?
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short answer : NO
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 26 2020, 05:48 PM

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QUOTE(wct @ Nov 26 2020, 05:46 PM)
short answer : NO
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Okay. May I know what job are you doing now?
wct
post Nov 26 2020, 05:52 PM

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QUOTE(Pohziliang96 @ Nov 26 2020, 05:48 PM)
Okay. May I know what job are you doing now?
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doing business, not related to financial engineering.
BravoZeroTwo
post Nov 26 2020, 06:00 PM

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QUOTE(Pohziliang96 @ Nov 23 2020, 05:37 PM)
Thanks! I will contemplate before I make any decision.
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Where are you now ? Pre-U ?
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 26 2020, 06:03 PM

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QUOTE(BravoZeroTwo @ Nov 26 2020, 06:00 PM)
Where are you now ? Pre-U ?
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Yes
BravoZeroTwo
post Nov 26 2020, 06:07 PM

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QUOTE(Pohziliang96 @ Nov 26 2020, 07:03 PM)
Yes
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STPM ?
wct
post Nov 26 2020, 06:10 PM

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better off get a basic finance course either in mmu or somewhere else and get 1st class honours if you're really into finance and proceed with the masters degree in FE if you really interested with this course in the future.
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 26 2020, 06:12 PM

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QUOTE(BravoZeroTwo @ Nov 26 2020, 06:07 PM)
STPM ?
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Yes
BravoZeroTwo
post Nov 27 2020, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(Pohziliang96 @ Nov 26 2020, 07:12 PM)
Yes
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Subjects ?
TSPohziliang96
post Nov 27 2020, 06:17 PM

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