It’s a feeling good budget but not benefitted them. Unless you rela jilat kasut sampai tangan on those elite malays , then only you might have a chance .

You know I know the money is already in some SCumno Scumbags pocket. Otherwise we won't be known as Bolehland!

Let's understand your argument first on
Affirmative action as it is currently only benefits the rich and connected bumis.

So it does not benefits the poor and unconnected? I believe that is false.

On your second argument,
With needs based policy, poor bumis will naturally gets a bigger share of the affirmative pie by nature they are the largest segment of B40. How is that not balancing the wealth gap?

I believe no. Here is why.

For example,
Poor Hashim gets a bigger share in tongkat (let's use this word to sum up Bumi benefit's).
Poor Ikau also gets a bigger share too like Poor Hashim
Poor Jibeh also gets a bigger share like those two.

So Poor Hashim, Poor Ikau and Poor Jibeh decided to start a business.
With proper training because of tongkat, they are smart enough to open up one.
With proper loans, they would be able to set up a shop

But
Poor Hashim lives in a fishing village, he does not know any Moderate Income or Rich people personally, just poor like him in his area
Poor Ikau also lives in a longhouse the rural area, he hardly can speak English so his business have communication limitation
Poor Jibeh lives in the highlands village and he lacks the roads to connect his shop for supplies and such.

Now,
Poor Hashim, Poor Ikau and Poor Jibeh have limits to their business and such tongkat can only bring them that far
Even if they work hard, their business would just be limited to their area, language, ethic groups or religious clusters

Maybe in 2-3 generations, their offspring would be educated at least on a diploma level or even a degree level.
Then again, there is no guarantee that these 3 poor fellas families would escape the generational poverty cycle.

But what if the Tongkat policy is based on races?

Poor Hashim would still be poor?
Maybe.

But Poor Ikau might know someone who is Moderate Income Akun.
So Moderate Income Akun have the extra money to help Poor Ikau under his wings
until Poor Ikau have the fluent way to communicate not only in English but also in Mandarin
Moderate Income Akun is a mentor to Poor Ikau in business since they share the same language, religion and ethnicity
As time pass by Poor Ikau becomes Moderate Income Ikau.

Poor Jibeh still having difficulties in getting supplies and this is where Rich Gonolon comes in
Seeing that he can sell his product in Poor Jibeh's village which shares the same language, religion and ethnicity with him
Rich Gonolon set up a shop there and helped Poor Jibeh in getting his supplies by sharing his lorry.
As time pass by, Rich Gonolon is able to help other villagers in getting supplies so in time
Poor Jibeh village have more people setting up all sorts of businesses,

Back to Poor Hashim, tongkat does not work for him no matter how hard he works
But Poor Hashim stike a goldmine
He met Rich Ahmad's daughter and fell in love.
They get married and Poor Hashim moved out from his village and works for Rich Ahmad
Now me is Moderate Income Hashim

So,
would Rich Gonolon help Poor Hashim?
Certainly not, they don't share any connection

Would Moderate Income Akun help Poor Jibeh?
Nope, they are way socially segregated to even have a chance to meet

Would Rich Syed help Poor Hashim when Poor Hashim called him to ask for help.
Probably yes, because they share the same language, religion and ethnicity

This post has been edited by seriosekitt3h: Nov 8 2020, 05:24 PM

Ya but some people avoiding the point and trying to go around in circles blaming colonialism, communism and all other kinds of BS

So the bolded one is your question, before that, please state your claim first about the amount of money being spend, Give me a link to support your argument.

all these politicians selling "vote own ppl" concept are technically scammer no matter wat race... how many year pass edi.. everything still the same, while those bastard keep getting rich saja

Do you know those people can claim extra allowances by running in circles?
So don't entertain them.

Don't mind me checking in to see if anything changes. NOPE!.

Me laughing at the STUPID DOG on the way out.

Lol I read this 3 times and still no idea what you talking about.

How does tongkat policy based on race or needs will make poor ikau meet akun or not? What does tongkat policy based on race or needs got to do with jibeh and gonolon? And how does tongkat policy based on needs will mean hashim wont to meet ahmad's daughter but only through tongkat policy based on race can?

You are basing all your argument through only one focus - your own 1 way street. Needs based tongkat ---> money ---> start business ---> bad. Race based tongkat ---> everything good (no idea how or why it is so but it is definitely good lah)

As if no other possibilities or perspectives are possible. That is simply strawman argument.

Sorry to say this but even your strawman argument is making absolutely zero sense. Try again to prove me wrong or change my mind that needs based agenda is the better way

oh hiii cheap macai whore! I kinda missed you ler, was wondering where u been, I thought you gave up bumping this thread liao (and no more button for me to push to see mac60931 go apeshit )

Eh, where's your picture? Come come lemme post it here:

u really go layan them ke? nobody give a shit la.
if the b40 dont stay poor, how they wanna every year get budget to help them?

its a vicious cycle. let it be, just pay ur taxes and treat it like a rent. but damn sometimes the gomen depts treat us as if we owe them money is really the fucked up part.

lol can't help it bro, there's a certain morbid fascination in reading seriose's twisted argument. Like an accident, you know its fucked up but can't help but still wanna see

But yeah, sometimes gomen staffs are really shits. Not all, and I do have many pleasant encounters with govt depts, but sometimes some of them makes you feel like shouting at their face, "Hoi! Aku bukan datang sini mengemis tau tak!"

Because people in similar race or religion or area of living or language will tend to congregate in the same community
whether it is a fish market or a church mass or a wedding or any social event that that have attended.

A Dusun guy won't be bother to attend or be invited to a Iban social event.
Same goes to Chinese that wouldn't have the chance Malay Ramadan Tarawikh
Unless they are co-workers or same place of education.

A Malay will help a Malay especially when their social status is higher or sometimes lower than others.
Other Bumi ethnicities shares the same mindset of helping the less fortunate in your community.

Perhaps Chinese have different look into this but I doubt that.
I've attended around 30-40 Chinese weddings, countless CNY visits and BBQs and one of my ex is Chinese.
Perhaps this is why Chinese does not think the way Malays or others think. (I'm not saying one is right or wrong, just different way)

I cannot speak in regards of Indians because I rarely encountered them in my life to be able to make judgement

So an Iban will hire their own kind as a priority for employment. I believe Chinese too.
A Malay will hire Malay contractors for a Malay wedding because they share the same diet, religion, language
or in a shorter form, it is easier to get the job done.
A Chinese will hire their own kind because hiring a Malay would be troublesome in term of diet and custom.

Malay will have Malay patrons in their restaurant and vice versa. An Iban will buys from an Iban and such.
You get my point right?

So the distribution of wealth trickles down from the rich to poor in one closed society in an area.
The poor hardly distributes the wealth amongst themselves because they are not able to.

T20 is important to create employment, create business opportunity and develops the area of their etc.

For example (I have personally met them and been to their home),
Tan Sri Alfred Jabu was the Iban leader and T20 in Betong. He still lives in the original longhouse he grew up.
His longhouse now creates 22 degree holders, 3 Master etc whereas 20 years ago, they were merely farmers and laborer's
Now Betong have community centers, Trans Borneo highway, Rural UTC, hotels, KFC, Watson and such because of what he brings

Tan Sri Mustapha Kamal, a T20 was just government servant serving as a DO in Banting. But then with NEP in the 70s he tried his luck as a land developer.
Now he employs his family members, the friends of his family members and such. He helped developed Cyber Jaya and parts of KL.
But little do we know that he funded a lot of mosque to be build secretly with his money.
I saw him giving cash money to my friend's father when my friend passed away in Pantai Medical Center to pay for his bills.
I saw him paying zakat in a Australia to a local imam because he had some business there.
In short, he distributes his wealth either as donations, business opportunity or employment to his people.

So are this 2 people corrupt as most people here say T20 is corrupt?


*I met Najib in his office (for work) discussing about his project on the Klinik Bergerak 1Malaysia in rural Sarawak. I know it us unrelated but heck, just for kick

you still did not explain how does how does tongkat policy based on race or needs makes a difference whether poor ikau meet akun or not, or jibeh meet gonolon or not, or hashim meet ahmad's daughter or not.

And you are still arguing from your own tunnel vision strawman. 1 good T20 = all T20 are good, there are no abuse of the current bumi agenda. But only bumi T20 is important to create employment and opportunity, non bumi wealth gap must be reduced in the name of "fairness" and "racial/religious unity"

This post has been edited by bigwolf: Nov 8 2020, 09:45 PM

Akun and Ikau is Iban
Jibeh and Gonolon is Kadazan

Didn't I mentioned about long houses and highlands?
Obviously all you guys know is Malay vs Chinese.
I am Melanau btw,

Both the above is my actual classmates back in my school in Kuantan.
Those are their names and their surname

I have answered it countless time.
People in the same ethnicity shares something in common like space, food, tradition, language etc.
This is often the reason how they meet

And how does how does tongkat policy based on race or tongkat policy based on needs makes a difference whether poor ikau meet akun or not, or jibeh meet gonolon or not, or hashim meet ahmad's daughter or not?

The key is, alway make the malay poor and in need of gov help. Can rule them forever

read again post #209 and #219
I have given you examples of both

A real life example,

Akun is an Iban from the longhouse in Kapit,
we are all MARA students
Same with Jibeh.

Now Akun is an engineer in JKR in Kuching
and Jibeh went to the same engineering uni with me

We are all poor B40 and now we are all M40.

Let say we did not get the tongkat, in this case MARA schools and scholarships to Uni,
I certainly would become a nasi lemak seller and Akun would be a palm oil worker.
I used to live in a small 2 bedroom PPR house (Tongkat)
but now I have build my own 2 storey 6 bedroom house.

My question to you.
Does your wealth status declined or increased within your lifetime?

for example
do you went from a car to riding motorbike or
from living on the top of a shophouse to a condo?

This post has been edited by seriosekitt3h: Nov 8 2020, 10:05 PM

Not following the entire thread, but to re-phrase the question slightly. Would you think that MORE these people would have benefited if it was directed towards those without the resources.

These people as in Bumiputera right?

What do you mean without resources?

Like money and discounts as resources?
and entrance to Uni as without resources?