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 Bumiputera development/agenda is a scam

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viole
post Nov 8 2020, 03:26 PM

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QUOTE(Oklahoma @ Nov 8 2020, 01:55 PM)
Whatchu gonna do about it huh? Form a new political party? Who your supporter? R u expecting the majority to support abolishing tongkat? You can't do shit. Only 2 ways I can see this as a non:

1) Work hard, shut up, kautau the malay kroni, become rich, make sure you give comfort to your next gen by amassing wealth. Like what the china businessmen r doing.

2) Work hard, get credentials, leave the country, or in other words, lu tak sukak lu cuba keluar.
*
at the end of the day,

what chu gonna do about it?

100 pages thread wont change anything.
judas
post Nov 8 2020, 03:28 PM

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QUOTE(bigwolf @ Nov 8 2020, 03:24 PM)
yup, precisely. But at least we can take heart most get it here with the exception of a few shitstirrers who likes to eat cheap dogfood and 1 east malaysian racial discriminating bigot who thinks it is fair to deprive the other poor malaysians even if east malaysian bumis gets more than their portion all in the name of racial "fairness" and "racial/religious unity"
*
You can say the new economic policy and the bumiputra policy no effect at all from 2002 till 2014 (12 years) for the b40.
percentage stays the same what. aparanciao different?

user posted image

Reaping the benefit is mostly only the T20. Can see showing off their hermes bags, driving lambo, mustang, etc..


This post has been edited by judas: Nov 8 2020, 03:30 PM
SUSlam86
post Nov 8 2020, 03:40 PM

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QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 02:47 PM)
So you are dismissing this study as invalid due to it being 18 years old?

secondly,
look at our racial demographic population.
Bumi and India sounds about right because we got 70% bumi and 9% Indian roughly,

Shouldn't Chinese be 24% instead of 16%?

So in other words, Chinese have less poor compared to Bumi and Indian

Thirdly,
Since there is Bumi allocation for Bumi policies, then by right it should be given to Bumi
Right?

If not, by your logic
Then if there is a Sarawakian allocation for Sarawak, a Selangorian should have a piece of it?
Or an allocation for Sabahan should be share by all Malaysian.

Now I understand why people in the West always a wanna a piece of Sabah and Sarawak.
Even though there are allocations to each and every citizen and state given every year.
That is why we are still underdeveloped compared to the West.
The West have been songlaping our money to build their MRT, PLUS, KLCC and KLIA with our oil and gas money
*
don't blame the west for the songlap thing because its your state assemblyman that voted to agree to let go the equal partner status in the federation. Just like if your dad willing to let go all his assets and now you blame why people songlap ur thing? No matter what you still benefit from the easy entrance to public uni, very cheap semester fee and jobs in government.

QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 02:57 PM)
I work for federal government in both Selangor and Sarawak for 10 years. There are lots of Sarawakian here in my PJ office.
One of them is the head of (our expertise) department. But then Sarawakian wants to go back where home is.

In my work place i can say it is 65% Bumi and 35% non Bumi in PJ and in Sarawak, it is close to 60-40% (we have no indians)

Secondly, you ask 2 sets of different question.
one is why the Bumi have so many poor and one is why NEP changes their economic statues.

If you learn history, colonialism is the reason why most country are poor and slow to progress.
Look at the middle east, that is what colonialism did to the region.
Intellectuals are killed, the native are suppressed in education and their wealth is plundered and destroyed.
You can learn what French did to Algeria for a more in depth study of effects on colonialism

If you know about economics, things that will affect it is political instability. Hence communist insurgencies (not CCP ideology per se) halted our progress in rural area.
That is why we need stability to help the economy grows.
That also includes racial stability.
Why does Japan, Korea and Singapore have in common that makes them progress economically?
Racial unity (one major race in power)
*
To sum up, your main point is if without the coffee, then your racist instinct will kick in?

This post has been edited by lam86: Nov 8 2020, 03:41 PM
Oklahoma
post Nov 8 2020, 03:42 PM

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QUOTE(viole @ Nov 8 2020, 03:26 PM)
at the end of the day,

what chu gonna do about it?

100 pages thread wont change anything.
*
Yup. The people u want to change are all not on lowyat forum. You think they so smart and tech savvy know english and log in forum lowyat to read these?

And the people who read this thread also fap only for fun, no fks given.


Nothing can be done. Just diam diam work hard and reap what u sow.

This post has been edited by Oklahoma: Nov 8 2020, 03:43 PM
viole
post Nov 8 2020, 03:47 PM

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QUOTE(Oklahoma @ Nov 8 2020, 03:42 PM)
Yup. The people u want to change are all not on lowyat forum. You think they so smart and tech savvy know english and log in forum lowyat to read these?

And the people who read this thread also fap only for fun, no fks given.
Nothing can be done. Just diam diam work hard and reap what u sow.
*
yep. i dont agree too.

but hey, when they give me free money, i'll just take it.
SUSseriosekitt3h
post Nov 8 2020, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(scorptim @ Nov 8 2020, 03:11 PM)
No it’s one question why after over 50 years of NEP and tens or even hundreds of billions allocated still so many poor bumis. Don’t go changing my question to fit your narrative.

You wanna blame colonialism, then what about Singapore? Why they manage to grow to where there are now?

*
Firstly
Generational poverty is prevalent amongst the people in the rural because of lack to access of education, lack of job opportunities and basic need like electricity, water and roads.
This is why Bumi which resides in these locations often find it difficult to compete in economic growth compared to the people in the urban areas, which surprise, surprise, is non Bumi.

Thus billions is needed to improve the infrastructures that is needed to help their economy and giving them fair chance to compete with others.
Thus lots of training centers, entrepreneur training, industrial training, schemes and loans are given to them in order to push them to the right direction.
People in the urban areas often have access to internet, tuition centers, training centers, high paying jobs and state of the art transportation compare to people living in coastal or inlands rural places.

So you get my point or do I need to elaborate more?

Secondly
Singapore is the crown colony of British colony same to Labuan, Malacca, Sarawak and Penang but not Malaya.
Meaning Singapore is under direct rule of the Crown.

But Singapore is the jewel colony for the British because of it's location and trade route.
There is nothing to plunder because it have no natural resources but it links all the islands in the region to a central location of it's port

This is part of the reason why Penang, Malacca and Labuan declined in being the port of the region.
It was pretty successful way before the world wars.
Even when the Japanese invaded that region, Singapore is the pinnacle of their invasion objective.
British fought hard to protect Singapore but not Kuala Lumpur or Labuan.

Another reason is Singapore is pretty much one race nation where it is politically stabile thus economic growth is the by product of that
Then, it have only one language to unite all.
Lastly Singapore have developed all it's landscape and no further development like building roads or bridges or tunnels needed to connect one town to another

These three last reasons is why Malaysia is far left behind in economic growth but now only can match Singapore in infrastructure growth.

SUSseriosekitt3h
post Nov 8 2020, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(judas @ Nov 8 2020, 03:28 PM)
You can say the new economic policy and the bumiputra policy no effect at all from 2002 till 2014 (12 years) for the b40.
percentage stays the same what. aparanciao different?

user posted image

Reaping the benefit is mostly only the T20. Can see showing off their hermes bags, driving lambo, mustang, etc..
*
it is good that the T20 is growing, the wealth can trickle down to the lower halves in term of more employment, business opportunity and such
What you are suggesting is socialism where everyone should be equal in wealth
SUSseriosekitt3h
post Nov 8 2020, 03:52 PM

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QUOTE(lam86 @ Nov 8 2020, 03:40 PM)
#1 - don't blame the west for the songlap thing because its your state assemblyman that voted to agree to let go the equal partner status in the federation. Just like if your dad willing to let go all his assets and now you blame why people songlap ur thing? No matter what you still benefit from the easy entrance to public uni, very cheap semester fee and jobs in government.

#2 - To sum up, your main point is if without the coffee, then your racist instinct will kick in?
*
#1
One word (person) - MAHATHIR

#2
What's your point other than being ad hominem?
jibpek
post Nov 8 2020, 03:55 PM

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Those who get peanuts is not happy, imagine they demand total loyalty from those who get nothing.
KLthinker91
post Nov 8 2020, 03:56 PM

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Doesn't work because even in /k you have some people arguing make rich malay richer is fair and good for country

I ain't gonna name names, but they are ktards who claim to support fairness equality bla bla

This post has been edited by KLthinker91: Nov 8 2020, 03:56 PM
SUSseriosekitt3h
post Nov 8 2020, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(judas @ Nov 8 2020, 03:22 PM)
#1 Back to the subject. u say cina is 24%, but only 16% of cina is poor. no need help the 16%, because they are cina? then why tax take from cina and other race as well?

#2 Second, u say bumi needs help because 75% is bumi.. more poor bumis compared to the rest. Then population of indians are lower than 9% but got 9% poor is indian, but why gomen only allocate 0.2% budget2021 to help the indians?

We expect country to be racist, but budget dont be racist la.
*
#1
Everyone is taxed accordingly.

If you use the facilities and protection given by the government,
then you should pay your tax. If you live in a far away jungle without electricity, roads, police, fire brigades, army
then it is your right not to pay thses taxes

#2
Does the Indian enjoy the subsidies or not?
Are they protected by law?
Are they protected by the constitution?
Are they Malaysian?

If no, then you have the wrong interpretation of things.

I don't believe in equality but in fairness and just.
You allocate them with the value of things that will help them, not in numbers but in the overall effect

For example,
Giving a farmer a Hilux is better than giving him a Lambo not because of the price but how it affects his life

adamw
post Nov 8 2020, 04:09 PM

Back to serve justice to those PKHKC corrupted Ex-ministers!
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QUOTE(Oklahoma @ Nov 8 2020, 03:42 PM)
Yup. The people u want to change are all not on lowyat forum. You think they so smart and tech savvy know english and log in forum lowyat to read these?

And the people who read this thread also fap only for fun, no fks given.
Nothing can be done. Just diam diam work hard and reap what u sow.
*
You are so wrong. If social media/internet has no effect NAJIS will still be your PM. That's why cancerman is reviving JASA.
TSbigwolf
post Nov 8 2020, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 03:50 PM)
it is good that the T20 is growing, the wealth can trickle down to the lower halves in term of more employment, business opportunity and such
What you are suggesting is socialism where everyone should be equal in wealth
*
Dude, you are just arguing all over the place replying for the sake of argument. What you post above is totally opposite of what you post below, arguing against T20 and advocating forced socialism:
QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 01:46 PM)
Yes it is fair.

Who said about other poor people needed to die?
We have Jabatan Kebajikan Masyarakat, Baitulmal (non muslim can apply)
and many more govt and NGO bodies to help them.

You are propagating here that the Poor Non Bumi should not be helped?
It is a false accusation.

And why I think this is fair?
This graph from this study explains why

Population shares of ethnic groups in each percentile, 2002 (pre-tax national income)
user posted image

Until we make the line between red and blue horizontally flat (red group have more rich than poor compared to blue group and vice versa),
we will not achieve racial/religious unity that is 100% essential to our economy.
*
Do you even know what you talking about or not? rclxub.gif Or is it you're just tailor-fitting your replies to different arguments?

This post has been edited by bigwolf: Nov 8 2020, 04:15 PM
SUSlam86
post Nov 8 2020, 04:18 PM

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QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 04:04 PM)
#1
Everyone is taxed accordingly.

If you use the facilities and protection given by the government,
then you should pay your tax. If you live in a far away jungle without electricity, roads, police, fire brigades, army
then it is your right not to pay thses taxes

#2
Does the Indian enjoy the subsidies or not?
Are they protected by law?
Are they protected by the constitution?
Are they Malaysian?

If no, then you have the wrong interpretation of things.

I don't believe in equality but in fairness and just.
You allocate them with the value of things that will help them, not in numbers but in the overall effect

For example,
Giving a farmer a Hilux is better than giving him a Lambo not because of the price but how it affects his life
*
problem is if things are not right then why not stop it? ur atuk still says people are lazy. external debts in trillion. and very less advancement in terms of technology or whatsoever.

money should be spent to improve skills and technology. if just for enjoyment then how the country to advance? If no advance and yet you still want to keep the enjoyment will only further increase the external debts.
TSbigwolf
post Nov 8 2020, 04:19 PM

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QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 03:48 PM)
Firstly
Generational poverty is prevalent amongst the people in the rural because of lack to access of education, lack of job opportunities and basic need like electricity, water and roads.
This is why Bumi which resides in these locations often find it difficult to compete in economic growth compared to the people in the urban areas, which surprise, surprise, is non Bumi.

Thus billions is needed to improve the infrastructures that is needed to help their economy and giving them fair chance to compete with others.
Thus lots of training centers, entrepreneur training, industrial training, schemes and loans are given to them in order to push them to the right direction.
People in the urban areas often have access to internet, tuition centers, training centers, high paying jobs and state of the art transportation compare to people living in coastal or inlands rural places.

So you get my point or do I need to elaborate more?

Secondly
Singapore is the crown colony of British colony same to Labuan, Malacca, Sarawak and Penang but not Malaya.
Meaning Singapore is under direct rule of the Crown.

But Singapore is the jewel colony for the British because of it's location and trade route.
There is nothing to plunder because it have no natural resources but it links all the islands in the region to a central location of it's port

This is part of the reason why Penang, Malacca and Labuan declined in being the port of the region.
It was pretty successful way before the world wars.
Even when the Japanese invaded that region, Singapore is the pinnacle of their invasion objective.
British fought hard to protect Singapore but not Kuala Lumpur or Labuan.

Another reason is Singapore is pretty much one race nation where it is politically stabile thus economic growth is the by product of that
Then, it have only one language to unite all.
Lastly Singapore have developed all it's landscape and no further development like building roads or bridges or tunnels needed to connect one town to another

These three last reasons is why Malaysia is far left behind in economic growth but now only can match Singapore in infrastructure growth.
*
And what does this got to do with bumi agenda being a scam and only benefits the rich and connected bumi instead of a needs based agenda where all poor and needy would benefit?
SUSseriosekitt3h
post Nov 8 2020, 04:19 PM

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QUOTE(bigwolf @ Nov 8 2020, 04:12 PM)
Dude, you are just arguing all over the place replying for the sake of argument. What you post above is totally opposite of what you post below, arguing against T20 and advocating forced socialism:

Do you even know what you talking about or not?  rclxub.gif  Or is it you're just tailor-fitting your replies to different arguments?
*
It is relevant to the arguments. I explained it in my Middle Income Ahmad example a few pages back.

Yes.

In short summary,
Affirmative action in Malaysia is needed to balance out wealth gap between races in order to maintain racial unity which is crucial to the nation's economic progress.
SUSseriosekitt3h
post Nov 8 2020, 04:21 PM

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QUOTE(bigwolf @ Nov 8 2020, 04:19 PM)
And what does this got to do with bumi agenda being a scam and only benefits the rich and connected bumi instead of a needs based agenda where all poor and needy would benefit?
*
you've asked me two questions and I answered it. The recent answers got nothing to do with what you've just said above
Hobbez
post Nov 8 2020, 04:26 PM

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With the way things are going, this bumi rights this or that could well become irrelevant.

In the not-so distant future....

wink.gif


TSbigwolf
post Nov 8 2020, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 04:19 PM)
It is relevant to the arguments. I explained it in my Middle Income Ahmad example a few pages back.

Yes.

In short summary,
Affirmative action in Malaysia is needed to balance out wealth gap between races in order to maintain racial unity which is crucial to the nation's economic progress.
*
Yet again you do not understand or wish not to understand. The opening post already summed it up pretty clearly.

Affirmative action as it is currently only benefits the rich and connected bumis. With needs based policy, poor bumis will naturally gets a bigger share of the affirmative pie by nature they are the largest segment of B40. How is that not balancing the wealth gap?



scorptim
post Nov 8 2020, 04:51 PM

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QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 03:48 PM)
Firstly
Generational poverty is prevalent amongst the people in the rural because of lack to access of education, lack of job opportunities and basic need like electricity, water and roads.
This is why Bumi which resides in these locations often find it difficult to compete in economic growth compared to the people in the urban areas, which surprise, surprise, is non Bumi.

Thus billions is needed to improve the infrastructures that is needed to help their economy and giving them fair chance to compete with others.
Thus lots of training centers, entrepreneur training, industrial training, schemes and loans are given to them in order to push them to the right direction.
People in the urban areas often have access to internet, tuition centers, training centers, high paying jobs and state of the art transportation compare to people living in coastal or inlands rural places.

So you get my point or do I need to elaborate more?

Secondly
Singapore is the crown colony of British colony same to Labuan, Malacca, Sarawak and Penang but not Malaya.
Meaning Singapore is under direct rule of the Crown.

But Singapore is the jewel colony for the British because of it's location and trade route.
There is nothing to plunder because it have no natural resources but it links all the islands in the region to a central location of it's port

This is part of the reason why Penang, Malacca and Labuan declined in being the port of the region.
It was pretty successful way before the world wars.
Even when the Japanese invaded that region, Singapore is the pinnacle of their invasion objective.
British fought hard to protect Singapore but not Kuala Lumpur or Labuan.

Another reason is Singapore is pretty much one race nation where it is politically stabile thus economic growth is the by product of that
Then, it have only one language to unite all.
Lastly Singapore have developed all it's landscape and no further development like building roads or bridges or tunnels needed to connect one town to another

These three last reasons is why Malaysia is far left behind in economic growth but now only can match Singapore in infrastructure growth.
*
No you’re not answering the question at all, since NEP started until 2016 a total of 291 billion USD has been spent on improving the bumiputras economically. That’s almost 1 trillion ringgit. So tell me, where did all that money go? You’re saying that despite spending so much we still couldn’t develop the rural areas?

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