both of you should read what you typed again... you are still assuming that people should not do certain things, the world doesn't work this way. the REAL world doesn't.

your 'assumed' world is a fantasy peaceful ideal world that we all want, but unfortunately in reality it's not the case.

your rights and the laws mean nothing when someone wants to stab a knife in your face just because you bumped on him at the streets. still don't understand??

I totally agree. There's no argument that the guy is wrong for forcing himself on her. My argument comes from the woman's actions, and that as an adult in this not-so-perfect society where a lot of people want to take advantage of you (money, sex, etc), she's partly responsible for letting the circumstances take place.

I just disagree with the standpoint from some people that the woman bears ZERO responsibility for what happened.

no that's not how the world should go. everyone wants a perfect world. but at the end of the day, do you want to stay out of trouble?

Different circumstances. I did give the example where a woman in a crowded restaurant, if she was raped there, she bears no responsibility to what happened. Same with your random punch on the street.

The specific case we are talking about here, is a FOREIGN MAN she BARELY KNOWS, in a PRIVATE SPACE, consuming ALCOHOL.

Look, we can go on an on about this, but let's just agree to disagree.

You are on the woman bears ZERO responsibility to what happened.
My view is that she bears PART of the responsibility to what happened.

End of story.

Depends, if she's all dolled up and grinding his crotch, level 99 cawk tease and then last minute say "no", then yes, she has somewhat entered an agreement of sorts.

Of course is related. Employer says "no" and "no means no".

Ok... so when you have sex with someone, you don't have black and white, each time is considered rape?
Read the article. Arab man went to her home with food and alcohol the day before. I don't know about the rest of the country, but I know enough there is a high level of problems with Arab people.

Better to have black and white before you start sexy taim? You must be a super romantic person.

Disgust all you want, it doesn't change the fact that situation could have been avoided if the guy didn't step into her house in the first place, let alone makan and have alcohol.

And no, what she did is not socially neutral. That's not how a single woman should behave when interacting with a FOREIGN MAN she BARELY KNOWS, going into a PRIVATE SPACE, and consuming ALCOHOL.

I don't know what perfect fantasy world you live in, but this is a dangerous society for such circumstance to happen. In this society, everyone has a responsibility to be cautious with people they are dealing with at all times. Yes it's sad, but this is reality, not fantasy.

yeah, and when a rich person gets robbed and found out that he wears big gold chain go out, ppl will say things like
"why he so stupid wear big gold chain go out? dont he know malaysia is not as safe as singapore and alot of snatch thiefs around?"

or when a naive foreverarone uncle got love scammed n lost his entire savings, ppl will also say "why he so stupid go trust those online pretty girl accounts, he so old n ugly he really think got young amoi wants to be with her? so stupid"

dont tell me u wont say those things when u flip thru the news and discuss with ur frens n family? dont pretend la lol

and now a woman got raped because of her naive-ness and ppl cannot say anything about it? see the double standards? we say anything about it and automatically we got called out for blaming the victim? wtf is this? why rape victims got double standard? can u explain to me? u say they are all in the same category but rape victim we jangan persoal cos its blaming the victim? wtf?

I hear you bro. It's totally not Trump supporters fault when they wear the MAGA hat and get beaten up by Antifa and BLM "protesters", BLM and Antifa is totally to blame. Trump supporter not to blame.

Yes I am thanks

But still I have to report you

police_diraja_malaysia
This user potential rapist. He assume girls want to have sex just because getting invites to their home
Please put it in watchlist

we just have different understanding of what being responsible to oneself is.

to me, not exposing myself to risky situations is being responsible to myself.

Boss says "hey you work hard, meet 120 percent target, you will get bonus next year" and then next year comes boss says "no". You did all the hard work, met all the target, but you don't get the reward, that's why some employees can go postal and rampage through office. Employee is at fault, but that doesn't mean employer bear doesn't any responsibility. Itu pon you all no understand is it? Suddenly when it comes to vagina suddenly rationality goes out the window or what?

If you don't cherry pick my replies, you will find one where I said she's not responsible for the rape, but she's responsible for putting herself in a risky circumstance. It might not be a rape, it could have been a robbery, or a burglary.

Feel free to browse /k to see all the butthurt threads about bonus, and tell them "you're stupid, no means no".

Quote where I said men have the right to rape.

Dunno why you white knighters got comprehension problem.

Quote where I said men have the right to rape.

Dunno why you white knighters got comprehension problem.

Ok ok let me give you another example that will 100% trigger you.

Teacher shows picture of prophet, teacher gets beheaded by religious fanatic in the name of the religion. 100% religion fault, teacher is 0% fault.

Do you even understand what is the meaning of risky behavior? And why people refer it as "risky behavior" and not "blamy behavior"? Because it refers to the responsibility on the person involved in such behavior in the first place.

Imagine a pedestrian trying to cross a busy road on a pedestrian green light and zebra crossing.
Person A watches out for possible idiot motorists as he crosses the road.
Person B just walks across while playing his phone without even looking at the vehicles.

A vehicle happens to zip across the traffic, person A saw that coming and stopped crossing the road, even though by right it's his green light and vehicles are supposed to stop at zebra crossing to make way for pedestrians. Person B never saw that coming and get hit.

In this situation both Person A and B are doing nothing wrong, and both person are not to be blamed, but the driver. However, person A is a more responsible person than person B, because person B subjects himself to a risky situation and expect the world to be perfect. Again, person B is not to be blamed for being hit, but he was partly responsible for what happened to him.

Ok, this is where you and I disagree. I think teacher also at fault, like 5%. However the appropriate response is back with 5%, e.g. drawing the teacher having sex with a donkey or something. Not via beheading.

Bottomline, teacher not 0% fault.

but can u prevent it from happening? if you dont show off your wealth, will there still be a high probability that you will get robbed? no right? so why do u still show off your wealth when you know its gonna bring you troubles in the future? its not your fault yes i agree but is the incident preventable? yes, thats why you see rich ppl have bodyguards and dont wear gold chains when they go out, or they only do that if they are surrounded by many bodyguards

and you have to be responsible towards your own actions too, if everyone thinks like you and dont have to be responsible on their own actions, then your house dont need to put alarms, why still install alarms? burglar come steal all your stuffs, you just report police and police will catch the burglar and send him to jail, why u need to take precautions by installing alarms? like you said you dont have to be responsible for your house's safety, just wait for an incident to happen and let law enforcement deal with it

ladies walking along the street can carry their handbags openly too, they dont have to take any precautions to prevent snatch thief from snatching their handbags cos they are not responsible for their own safety, when snatch thief come and snatched their handbags and drag them 10m across the road and they end up in hospital after that with scars also no problem, just let it happen and law enforcement will deal with it cos snatch thief salah police will catch him

we all also dont need to take any precautions, cos we are not responsible for our own safety too, when nasi sudah jadi bubur then only regret why didnt do this do that to prevent those incidents from happening  

scorptimyanoewat

here's an experiment that shows people have different opinions as to the responsibilies of both parties

in that thread I simply reversed the roles of this case, and the majority don't think it's 100% the perpetrator's fault for what happened.

i personally think that the guy is partly responsible for what happened to him, so this is not about "victim blaming" when a "rape" happens. it's simply about people being irresponsible with their own actions that lead to risky situations and undesirable consequences.

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=5051874&hl=

In a professional environment, every worker has its set responsibilities.

In a social setting, you are responsible for putting yourself in a risky situation.

ok, and its not your fault for not taking those steps to prevent something from happening, then whats the use of saying that AFTER something happened? can we undo it? can she get back her virginity after being raped? no right?

so whats the best solution? be more dilligent and take preventive measures right? be proactive and take up the responsibility of taking care of your own safety first to PREVENT something bad from happening, instead of feeling regret why didnt do this do that AFTER the incident happened

1) be proactive and be responsible towards your own safety/actions - High chance of avoiding a bad incident from happening
2) no proactive and dont care, tidak apa attitude, dont need to be responsible for your own safety, push that responsibility fully to law enforcements - getting robbed, snatched, raped, or even killed

which choice do you want to take?

No. I'm saying my view is exactly the same. Both the guy being robbed, and woman being raped, are partly responsible for engaging in risky behavior.
I never said the victim is at fault. I said the victim is partly responsible for engaging in risky behavior. But you and the the other poster kept arguing that I'm saying the victim is at fault.

"At fault" is not the same as "being responsible to yourself", the former is the subject perpertrating a criminal act, the latter is the target engaging in risky behavior. THIS IS IMPORTANT. READ IT AGAIN.

I also never said the victim is responsible for the crime. You and the other guy kept assuming I said that, no that's not what I meant. My standpoint is that the victim is partly responsible for himself/herself, NOT THE CRIME, BUT TO ONESELF.

If you engage yourself in a risky situation, and someone commits a crime on you, that person is responsible for the crime, but you are responsible for putting yourself in a risky situation. Different responsibilities.

we are just doing post mortem on the incident, and see what should be done to avoid such incidents from happening again, there are still many naive girls out there that dont know the "cruelty" of this world, and its important to let them know how this happened and what steps needed to be taken to avoid these date rapes, if you have a teenage daughter and you see this case in the news, dont tell me you wont go advise or tell her there is these date rapes happening and their MO and what steps she should take in future to prevent the same thing from happening to her?

if we all have the "ok dont talk about it anymore, it already happened, lets move on" attitude, then just wait until the next victim got raped and repeat the cycle again jangan persoal? respect the victim, its not her fault, dont say she should have done this she should have done that, dont say anything and just move on

in robbery and scam cases etc, many ppl also will talk about the postmortem and say the victim should have done this done that why so stupid fall to such scams etc, and learn lessons from those incidents, so why cant we discuss about rape cases postmortem? is it that woman got special rights that we all should just keep quiet and jangan persoal if there are rape cases?