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> Grand Seiko is not high end

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TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 01:45 PM, updated 6 months ago

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I have just found out that modern Grand Seiko Movements are mostly unfinished on parts which are not visible through the see through caseback. This is quite a disappointment since GS is trying to match Rolex in price and a lot of their fans claimed that GS is high end and on par with Audemars Piguet, Patek Philippe and Vacheron Constantin but at a lower price point.

If they want to increase their prices, at least make sure all parts are finished equally.

Photos are taken from Watchuseek High End forum.

This is the movement plate for a Grand Seiko GMT.

[attachmentid=10653958]

And below is the movement plate for a Breguet 5177.

[attachmentid=10653959]

The biggest slap in the face is that an equivalent Breguet can be had for around the same price as a Grand Seiko in the preowned market due to massive depreciation on Breguet watches.
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 01:49 PM

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QUOTE(swks26 @ Oct 26 2020, 01:48 PM)
When did GS claim to be on par with AP, PP and VC?
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On watch forums. Watchuseek High End forum especially.
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 01:51 PM

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QUOTE(daijoubu @ Oct 26 2020, 01:48 PM)
Why you compare hand polish vs machined polished laugh.gif
Breguet banyak machine polished mark
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https://www.fratellowatches.com/photo-repor...o-breguet/#gref

You sure bro? Your eyes need to be checked or not? People already confirmed that it’s handfinished.
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 01:55 PM

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QUOTE(swks26 @ Oct 26 2020, 01:48 PM)
When did GS claim to be on par with AP, PP and VC?
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QUOTE(BS8110 @ Oct 26 2020, 01:50 PM)
This is the first time I heard claim that GS is on par with VC, AP and PP.
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TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(daijoubu @ Oct 26 2020, 01:53 PM)
Hand finished on the case and dials yes la, but the movement picture you post, those round circular marks. Those are from CNC machining, without additional processing.
Those are common marks on CNCed parts.

Heck even GS' photo has it if you see closely, but they seem to have another layer of processing after that
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Breguet hand finish movement also lah. Go read lah. Or email them for better answer.
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(daijoubu @ Oct 26 2020, 02:01 PM)
Hand finished yes, but from the picture you show its obvious the hand finishing didnt apply on the surface of the back where you can still see many circular milled marks.
They try to make it look nice but its a cheaper way to "make it look nice". if it's hand finished, or if there are additional processing done after the CNC milling you won't see those marks anymore.

Honestly it's ugly AF because it looks very rough and you can see the circular marks inside each "scale".
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The circular mark is intentional. It’s called perlage. A handfinishing technique.

This shows your lack of knowledge in watchmaking.
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 02:09 PM

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QUOTE(mcchin @ Oct 26 2020, 02:06 PM)
Hmm intentionally?
Okay... Lol
Maybe sort of like those nice tig weldings
Like some weldporns

But for me machine marks , tig weld look nice on cheap stuff
Cause, you know, it's cheap way to look nice

But "high end" watches that cost pretty pennies?

Weird flex, but okay
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The circular finishing is called a perlage. It’s mostly handfinished and very difficult to do.
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(Clueless07 @ Oct 26 2020, 02:09 PM)
they claim that... of watch fans claims that to elevate and justify their purchase?
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I did mention the fans in my original post, didn’t I?
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 02:18 PM

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QUOTE(daijoubu @ Oct 26 2020, 02:14 PM)
I admit I had to google that. But I don't claim to be knowledgeable in watch making.
Only that the "perlage" looks ugly. I see machined surfaces all my time, and unfinished/unprocessed it looks ugly, similar to this.

Also, it reminds me of this:
user posted image

Your typical mamak table laugh.gif
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Perlage is a century old finishing technique. I don’t know if any mamak table existed before then..
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 02:39 PM

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QUOTE(daijoubu @ Oct 26 2020, 02:17 PM)
That said, most watch aficionados like to stroke their own rods thinking their own watches are the best.

But I've said before 5 years ago, before GS went mainstream, that their watches hold an enormous amount of value for it's asking price, both in mechanical prowess as well as its movement accuracy. Sadly as expected now people have caught up and with that all the less rich showoffs that can only afford a GS but brings the same attitude as those that owns more expensive pieces.
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GS was worth its price when it was trading at around RM12-16k range. But when it hit Rolex and creeping into Jaeger LeCoultre price range, that’s when you realize that it’s no longer good value.

For RM20-30k range, I would rather get a JLC Reverso Classique.

The frequent price increase on newly launched models isn’t really justified.
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TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 03:23 PM

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QUOTE(more2teayap @ Oct 26 2020, 03:13 PM)
Hmm..
GS 9S86
[attachmentid=10653986]

Rolex 3285
[attachmentid=10653990]
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I didn’t know that Rolex is considered high end and on par with Audemars Piguet..
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(more2teayap @ Oct 26 2020, 03:25 PM)
I didn't know GS is on par with AP too,  most i heard are ppl comparing GS with rolex jer biggrin.gif

Maybe they are talking about Credor?
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TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(more2teayap @ Oct 26 2020, 03:33 PM)
Cool, how much is a new Breguet with GMT?
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Three handler steel Breguet is around RM20k+ while a 3 hand GS snowflake is also around RM20k+..

Or would you prefer a flyback Chronograph from Breguet for RM20k+?



This post has been edited by friedricetheman: Oct 26 2020, 03:38 PM
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 03:43 PM

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QUOTE(more2teayap @ Oct 26 2020, 03:41 PM)
drool.gif Nice.. can get this price locally retail?
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Yup. Saw Wingwah selling it not too long ago.
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 03:45 PM

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QUOTE(more2teayap @ Oct 26 2020, 03:44 PM)
wingwah.. pre-owned?
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Yup. Didn’t you read my original post? Preowned prices for Breguet is equivalent to GS prices.
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(yvliew @ Oct 26 2020, 04:30 PM)
GS maybe same level as rolex.. but never claim to be on Patek or breguet or other high end luxury..

that kind of level need Seiko's CREDOR to compete..

Credor > Grand Seiko > Seiko
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Certain people on watch forums believe that GS belongs in the High End category and have started flooding the High end forums with Grand Seiko pictures.

I believe a few ktards also probably believe that GS is high end. The same guys who also believe that Rolex is considered high end.
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 05:21 PM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Oct 26 2020, 02:59 PM)
but you have to be absolutely sure that it is a 1999 published 1st Edition pokemon card for that 2k USD price. If not, it's probably not worth more than a few hundred USD at best.

If yes, then congrats.. you should definitely get it graded.

I think the grading can only be done in USA. Can use services like this: https://www.carousell.sg/p/psa-grading-card...rvice-65657985/

to get help on sending your card to get graded.
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I have power nine + complete playsets of original duals.

Is it worth anything or not?

This post has been edited by friedricetheman: Oct 26 2020, 05:21 PM
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 05:25 PM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Oct 26 2020, 05:23 PM)
what condition?

if all in top grade mint 10, probably 30k usd? MTG not really fetch the high mark.

Pokemon does, because that's what all of the millennials were playing.
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Lol. You sure boh. Got offers from overseas for way more than that. The lotus alone is 30k..
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 05:31 PM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Oct 26 2020, 05:27 PM)
sell to me. haha thumbup.gif
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Buyer already confirmed. They are flying down after the Corvid19 to check my card condition.

You lowball me USD$ 30k, how to sell to you?

Try adding an extra 0 if you want my whole collection complete with a play set of all tournament playable cards from Beta until 2018 sets. Complete with all real estates including Beta basic lands and all the mana artifacts.
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 05:43 PM

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QUOTE(swanlover @ Oct 26 2020, 05:33 PM)
Do u ever use chr24 to sell?
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Sometimes but I prefer to sell through GtG meetups. If the GtG coincide with my business trip, I will just pop quickly into it and meeting up my buyer who will then appraise the watch.

I don’t sell to strangers. Too risky and very high chance of getting robbed.

QUOTE(IcyDarling @ Oct 26 2020, 05:35 PM)
TS better u let me know what is cheapo watch but look high keras
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Gorilla watches. Super high end materials like ceramics. Beautiful and avant-garde designs. The designers came from Audemars Piguet.

Or can go artwist if you prefer something below RM500 and Malaysian made.

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