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> Grand Seiko is not high end

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TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 01:45 PM, updated 6 months ago

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I have just found out that modern Grand Seiko Movements are mostly unfinished on parts which are not visible through the see through caseback. This is quite a disappointment since GS is trying to match Rolex in price and a lot of their fans claimed that GS is high end and on par with Audemars Piguet, Patek Philippe and Vacheron Constantin but at a lower price point.

If they want to increase their prices, at least make sure all parts are finished equally.

Photos are taken from Watchuseek High End forum.

This is the movement plate for a Grand Seiko GMT.

[attachmentid=10653958]

And below is the movement plate for a Breguet 5177.

[attachmentid=10653959]

The biggest slap in the face is that an equivalent Breguet can be had for around the same price as a Grand Seiko in the preowned market due to massive depreciation on Breguet watches.
LawdRetep
post Oct 26 2020, 01:47 PM

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noted
swks26
post Oct 26 2020, 01:48 PM

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When did GS claim to be on par with AP, PP and VC?
daijoubu
post Oct 26 2020, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 01:45 PM)
I have just found out that modern Grand Seiko Movements are mostly unfinished on parts which are not visible through the see through caseback. This is quite a disappointment since GS is trying to match Rolex in price and a lot of their fans claimed that GS is high end and on par with Audemars Piguet, Patek Philippe and Vacheron Constantin but at a lower price point.

If they want to increase their prices, at least make sure all parts are finished equally.

Photos are taken from Watchuseek High End forum.

This is the movement plate for a Grand Seiko GMT.

[attachmentid=10653958]

And below is the movement plate for a Breguet 5177.

[attachmentid=10653959]

The biggest slap in the face is that an equivalent Breguet can be had for around the same price as a Grand Seiko in the preowned market due to massive depreciation on Breguet watches.
*
Why you compare hand polish vs machined polished laugh.gif
Breguet banyak machine polished mark
halglory
post Oct 26 2020, 01:48 PM

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seiko = casio
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 01:49 PM

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QUOTE(swks26 @ Oct 26 2020, 01:48 PM)
When did GS claim to be on par with AP, PP and VC?
*
On watch forums. Watchuseek High End forum especially.
XXXOOOXXXOOO
post Oct 26 2020, 01:49 PM

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QUOTE(daijoubu @ Oct 26 2020, 01:48 PM)
Why you compare hand polish vs machined polished laugh.gif
Breguet banyak machine polished mark
*
from some one who purely purchase for story telling, what u expect ?
BronzePlate
post Oct 26 2020, 01:50 PM

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When I buy a car, I don't care if the pistons and camshafts are not polished. Likewise my watch, phones, computers, etc.
BS8110
post Oct 26 2020, 01:50 PM

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This is the first time I heard claim that GS is on par with VC, AP and PP.
nakal_mode
post Oct 26 2020, 01:50 PM

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How can Grand Seiko be on par with Vacheron Constantin?

Who made that claim? Very sure Seiko themselves knows that is not real and will not be making that claim.
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CertifiedHomphobe
post Oct 26 2020, 01:51 PM

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GS kills it with its dial and case finish. Super crisps and unreal lines overall..

What kills it for me is GSs subpar bracelet, something you'd expect better of from that price point. The reason rolex is well sought after is, you guessed it. The bracelet.

Sure the movement might not be well decorated, but from an engineering standpoint, spring drive is one of the pinnacles of horology.

I don't think the movement finish is really an issue when there's blaring issues like their bracelet. They still make surreal looking watches though.
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 01:51 PM

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QUOTE(daijoubu @ Oct 26 2020, 01:48 PM)
Why you compare hand polish vs machined polished laugh.gif
Breguet banyak machine polished mark
*
https://www.fratellowatches.com/photo-repor...o-breguet/#gref

You sure bro? Your eyes need to be checked or not? People already confirmed that it’s handfinished.
tvcat
post Oct 26 2020, 01:52 PM

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kotak mane bodo
mcchin
post Oct 26 2020, 01:52 PM

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Here as a machinist thought why the 2nd picture look like not finished surface one
afoka
post Oct 26 2020, 01:52 PM

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Ts tak mampu..Ler tu.. kecoh jer
yeezai
post Oct 26 2020, 01:52 PM

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Seiko company wouldnt claim dat , maybe fanboy claimed ..
Nachiino Etamay
post Oct 26 2020, 01:52 PM

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dumb people still collect watches after smartphone era? hahaha

sounds like people who still play golf or petangque when most of the people gone cycling already as a high-end sport

This post has been edited by Nachiino Etamay: Oct 26 2020, 01:53 PM
incubus_skj
post Oct 26 2020, 01:53 PM

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seiko box can fetch RM4k wo
daijoubu
post Oct 26 2020, 01:53 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 01:51 PM)
https://www.fratellowatches.com/photo-repor...o-breguet/#gref

You sure bro? Your eyes need to be checked or not? People already confirmed that it’s handfinished.
*
Hand finished on the case and dials yes la, but the movement picture you post, those round circular marks. Those are from CNC machining, without additional processing.
Those are common marks on CNCed parts.

Heck even GS' photo has it if you see closely, but they seem to have another layer of processing after that


terradrive
post Oct 26 2020, 01:54 PM

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How much is the expensive GS model?
dennis008
post Oct 26 2020, 01:54 PM

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then need to go for credor
mw1980
post Oct 26 2020, 01:54 PM

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For general public, Grand Seiko is still Seiko and they don't know how to appreciate it. It's just like making a Grand Proton Perdana with the same spec as BMW 7 series and sell it 5-10% cheaper than BMW.
Mixo Mania
post Oct 26 2020, 01:55 PM

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QUOTE(Nachiino Etamay @ Oct 26 2020, 01:52 PM)
dumb people still collect watches after smartphone era? hahaha

sounds like people who still play golf or petangque when most of the people gone cycling already as a high-end sport
*
They're more of a jewelry Rather than a toolpiece these days.
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 01:55 PM

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QUOTE(swks26 @ Oct 26 2020, 01:48 PM)
When did GS claim to be on par with AP, PP and VC?
*
QUOTE(BS8110 @ Oct 26 2020, 01:50 PM)
This is the first time I heard claim that GS is on par with VC, AP and PP.
*
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(daijoubu @ Oct 26 2020, 01:53 PM)
Hand finished on the case and dials yes la, but the movement picture you post, those round circular marks. Those are from CNC machining, without additional processing.
Those are common marks on CNCed parts.

Heck even GS' photo has it if you see closely, but they seem to have another layer of processing after that
*
Breguet hand finish movement also lah. Go read lah. Or email them for better answer.
drug5
post Oct 26 2020, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(LawdRetep @ Oct 26 2020, 01:47 PM)
noted
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laugh.gif laugh.gif
rtk74
post Oct 26 2020, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(mcchin @ Oct 26 2020, 01:52 PM)
Here as a machinist thought why the 2nd picture look like not finished surface one
*
Machining gives different types of swirl marks, that one is purposely made to look like that. Not my cup of tea tho
swanlover
post Oct 26 2020, 01:57 PM

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GS is a well-built peasant watch...lolx
pretty23
post Oct 26 2020, 01:58 PM

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price expensive = high end ?

LOL... the name already low class. Imagine a proton sell RM200k and toyota sell RM200k, which you want for that range?
voltan
post Oct 26 2020, 01:59 PM

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QUOTE(Nachiino Etamay @ Oct 26 2020, 01:52 PM)
dumb people still collect watches after smartphone era? hahaha

sounds like people who still play golf or petangque when most of the people gone cycling already as a high-end sport
*
you sound more like a boy than man.
tvcat
post Oct 26 2020, 02:00 PM

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QUOTE(Nachiino Etamay @ Oct 26 2020, 01:52 PM)
dumb people still collect watches after smartphone era? hahaha

sounds like people who still play golf or petangque when most of the people gone cycling already as a high-end sport
*
watches retain value bro
rtk74
post Oct 26 2020, 02:00 PM

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QUOTE(pretty23 @ Oct 26 2020, 01:58 PM)
price expensive = high end ?

LOL... the name already low class. Imagine a proton sell RM200k and  toyota sell RM200k, which you want for that range?
*
Nahhh I would say its like Proton Satria GTI & BMW 1 series
Mooneyes
post Oct 26 2020, 02:00 PM

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msacras
post Oct 26 2020, 02:01 PM

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QUOTE(mw1980 @ Oct 26 2020, 01:54 PM)
For general public, Grand Seiko is still Seiko and they don't know how to appreciate it. It's just like making a Grand Proton Perdana with the same spec as BMW 7 series and sell it 5-10% cheaper than BMW.
*
But specs and finishes wise, GS really make those Europeans look substandard.
daijoubu
post Oct 26 2020, 02:01 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 01:56 PM)
Breguet hand finish movement also lah. Go read lah. Or email them for better answer.
*
Hand finished yes, but from the picture you show its obvious the hand finishing didnt apply on the surface of the back where you can still see many circular milled marks.
They try to make it look nice but its a cheaper way to "make it look nice". if it's hand finished, or if there are additional processing done after the CNC milling you won't see those marks anymore.

Honestly it's ugly AF because it looks very rough and you can see the circular marks inside each "scale".
milky12388
post Oct 26 2020, 02:02 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 01:45 PM)
I have just found out that modern Grand Seiko Movements are mostly unfinished on parts which are not visible through the see through caseback. This is quite a disappointment since GS is trying to match Rolex in price and a lot of their fans claimed that GS is high end and on par with Audemars Piguet, Patek Philippe and Vacheron Constantin but at a lower price point.

If they want to increase their prices, at least make sure all parts are finished equally.

Photos are taken from Watchuseek High End forum.

This is the movement plate for a Grand Seiko GMT.

[attachmentid=10653958]

And below is the movement plate for a Breguet 5177.

[attachmentid=10653959]

The biggest slap in the face is that an equivalent Breguet can be had for around the same price as a Grand Seiko in the preowned market due to massive depreciation on Breguet watches.
*
Seiko has another luxury line higher than Grand Siko, Credor.

https://www.credor.com/
daijoubu
post Oct 26 2020, 02:02 PM

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QUOTE(mcchin @ Oct 26 2020, 01:52 PM)
Here as a machinist thought why the 2nd picture look like not finished surface one
*
This guy knows his stuff.

They tried to make it look nice with the scale layering but its obviously a 1 step CNC process.
Hand finished konon lol. Definitely not on those surface

ahmad92
post Oct 26 2020, 02:03 PM

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Around 20k watch. Not high end enough. Will buy for the smoothness of spring drive movement and its accuracy.
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post Oct 26 2020, 02:04 PM

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QUOTE(ahmad92 @ Oct 26 2020, 02:03 PM)
Around 20k watch. Not high end enough. Will buy for the smoothness of spring drive movement and its accuracy.
*
Ahmad tau jugak spring drive ye brows.gif
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(daijoubu @ Oct 26 2020, 02:01 PM)
Hand finished yes, but from the picture you show its obvious the hand finishing didnt apply on the surface of the back where you can still see many circular milled marks.
They try to make it look nice but its a cheaper way to "make it look nice". if it's hand finished, or if there are additional processing done after the CNC milling you won't see those marks anymore.

Honestly it's ugly AF because it looks very rough and you can see the circular marks inside each "scale".
*
The circular mark is intentional. It’s called perlage. A handfinishing technique.

This shows your lack of knowledge in watchmaking.
mcchin
post Oct 26 2020, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(rtk74 @ Oct 26 2020, 01:57 PM)
Machining gives different types of swirl marks, that one is purposely made to look like that. Not my cup of tea tho
*
Hmm intentionally?
Okay... Lol

QUOTE(daijoubu @ Oct 26 2020, 02:01 PM)
Hand finished yes, but from the picture you show its obvious the hand finishing didnt apply on the surface of the back where you can still see many circular milled marks.
They try to make it look nice but its a cheaper way to "make it look nice". if it's hand finished, or if there are additional processing done after the CNC milling you won't see those marks anymore.

Honestly it's ugly AF because it looks very rough and you can see the circular marks inside each "scale".
*
Maybe sort of like those nice tig weldings
Like some weldporns

But for me machine marks , tig weld look nice on cheap stuff
Cause, you know, it's cheap way to look nice

But "high end" watches that cost pretty pennies?

Weird flex, but okay

hotjake
post Oct 26 2020, 02:07 PM

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sample size 1, seems legit
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post Oct 26 2020, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(incubus_skj @ Oct 26 2020, 01:53 PM)
seiko box can fetch RM4k wo
*
this the best, even beat lolex
swanlover
post Oct 26 2020, 02:07 PM

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If buy GS might as well buy Tudor P full Titanium , dem Shiok..lolx
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post Oct 26 2020, 02:08 PM

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Casio > All.

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post Oct 26 2020, 02:08 PM

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macam paten meja kedai mamak je
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post Oct 26 2020, 02:08 PM

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QUOTE(LawdRetep @ Oct 26 2020, 01:47 PM)
noted
*
with thanks tongue.gif
Clueless07
post Oct 26 2020, 02:09 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 01:49 PM)
On watch forums. Watchuseek High End forum especially.
*
they claim that... of watch fans claims that to elevate and justify their purchase?


TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 02:09 PM

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QUOTE(mcchin @ Oct 26 2020, 02:06 PM)
Hmm intentionally?
Okay... Lol
Maybe sort of like those nice tig weldings
Like some weldporns

But for me machine marks , tig weld look nice on cheap stuff
Cause, you know, it's cheap way to look nice

But "high end" watches that cost pretty pennies?

Weird flex, but okay
*
The circular finishing is called a perlage. It’s mostly handfinished and very difficult to do.
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(Clueless07 @ Oct 26 2020, 02:09 PM)
they claim that... of watch fans claims that to elevate and justify their purchase?
*
I did mention the fans in my original post, didn’t I?
daijoubu
post Oct 26 2020, 02:14 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 02:05 PM)
The circular mark is intentional. It’s called perlage. A handfinishing technique.

This shows your lack of knowledge in watchmaking.
*
I admit I had to google that. But I don't claim to be knowledgeable in watch making.
Only that the "perlage" looks ugly. I see machined surfaces all my time, and unfinished/unprocessed it looks ugly, similar to this.

Also, it reminds me of this:
user posted image

Your typical mamak table laugh.gif



rtk74
post Oct 26 2020, 02:14 PM

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QUOTE(daijoubu @ Oct 26 2020, 02:14 PM)
I admit I had to google that. But I don't claim to be knowledgeable in watch making.
Only that the "perlage" looks ugly. I see machined surfaces all my time, and unfinished/unprocessed it looks ugly, similar to this.

Also, it reminds me of this:
user posted image

Your typical mamak table laugh.gif
*
Mamak was inspired by it laaaa biggrin.gif
daijoubu
post Oct 26 2020, 02:17 PM

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That said, most watch aficionados like to stroke their own rods thinking their own watches are the best.

But I've said before 5 years ago, before GS went mainstream, that their watches hold an enormous amount of value for it's asking price, both in mechanical prowess as well as its movement accuracy. Sadly as expected now people have caught up and with that all the less rich showoffs that can only afford a GS but brings the same attitude as those that owns more expensive pieces.
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post Oct 26 2020, 02:17 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 02:12 PM)
I did mention the fans in my original post, didn’t I?
*
oh betul! my bad
mega_shok.gif
wertty
post Oct 26 2020, 02:18 PM

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But when compare sub with gs

Gs hands are much smoother than lolex

TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 02:18 PM

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QUOTE(daijoubu @ Oct 26 2020, 02:14 PM)
I admit I had to google that. But I don't claim to be knowledgeable in watch making.
Only that the "perlage" looks ugly. I see machined surfaces all my time, and unfinished/unprocessed it looks ugly, similar to this.

Also, it reminds me of this:
user posted image

Your typical mamak table laugh.gif
*
Perlage is a century old finishing technique. I don’t know if any mamak table existed before then..
incubus_skj
post Oct 26 2020, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(pretty23 @ Oct 26 2020, 01:58 PM)
price expensive = high end ?

LOL... the name already low class. Imagine a proton sell RM200k and  toyota sell RM200k, which you want for that range?
*
top up a bit get a felali

owai-
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post Oct 26 2020, 02:20 PM

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If dont know what you buying, better dont buy jer la
daijoubu
post Oct 26 2020, 02:21 PM

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QUOTE(wertty @ Oct 26 2020, 02:18 PM)
But when compare sub with gs

Gs hands are much smoother than lolex
*
GS trumps Rolex in terms of what you get for the price you pay.
Honestly I think GS should be compared in the range of Rolex, not the higher tiered one (that should be Credor's league).

But mass market mind is:
- GS is Seiko lol
- Lolex da best



Funny thing is GS is being compared in two extremes:
a) Aiya they are Seiko, for peasants
b) Wah they want to fight with AP/VC?

Watch fans cannot make up their mind lol
pretty23
post Oct 26 2020, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(rtk74 @ Oct 26 2020, 02:00 PM)
Nahhh I would say its like Proton Satria GTI & BMW 1 series
*
proton just a junk no matter what age.
kraziekd
post Oct 26 2020, 02:24 PM

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will still buy

hnggghhhhh
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post Oct 26 2020, 02:24 PM

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QUOTE(Nachiino Etamay @ Oct 26 2020, 01:52 PM)
dumb people still collect watches after smartphone era? hahaha

sounds like people who still play golf or petangque when most of the people gone cycling already as a high-end sport
*
kalau bodo, simpan sikit


kangkayu
post Oct 26 2020, 02:30 PM

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they may be dead accurate but japenis watches do not worth its price ... except Casio

This post has been edited by kangkayu: Oct 26 2020, 02:30 PM
rtk74
post Oct 26 2020, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(pretty23 @ Oct 26 2020, 02:22 PM)
proton just a junk no matter what age.
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Try to drive a 116i from 2004, and you'll be surprise how mundane and underpowered it is
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post Oct 26 2020, 02:36 PM

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QUOTE(BronzePlate @ Oct 26 2020, 01:50 PM)
When I buy a car, I don't care if the pistons and camshafts are not polished. Likewise my watch, phones, computers, etc.
*
watch owners are a weird breed.

They look at the polishing. But how many of them actually understand how a watch ticks..

Anyways, they are in the wrong collectors world la.

Today, it is all about collecting pokemon cards.

user posted image
andrewhtf
post Oct 26 2020, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 01:49 PM)
On watch forums. Watchuseek High End forum especially.
*
GS themselves claimed, or OWNERS of GS that claimed? big difference there
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 02:39 PM

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QUOTE(daijoubu @ Oct 26 2020, 02:17 PM)
That said, most watch aficionados like to stroke their own rods thinking their own watches are the best.

But I've said before 5 years ago, before GS went mainstream, that their watches hold an enormous amount of value for it's asking price, both in mechanical prowess as well as its movement accuracy. Sadly as expected now people have caught up and with that all the less rich showoffs that can only afford a GS but brings the same attitude as those that owns more expensive pieces.
*
GS was worth its price when it was trading at around RM12-16k range. But when it hit Rolex and creeping into Jaeger LeCoultre price range, that’s when you realize that it’s no longer good value.

For RM20-30k range, I would rather get a JLC Reverso Classique.

The frequent price increase on newly launched models isn’t really justified.
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post Oct 26 2020, 02:39 PM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Oct 26 2020, 02:36 PM)
watch owners are a weird breed.

They look at the polishing. But how many of them actually understand how a watch ticks..

Anyways, they are in the wrong collectors world la.

Today, it is all about collecting pokemon cards.

user posted image
*

scorptim
post Oct 26 2020, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 02:39 PM)
GS was worth its price when it was trading at around RM12-16k range. But when it hit Rolex and creeping into Jaeger LeCoultre price range, that’s when you realize that it’s no longer good value.

For RM20-30k range, I would rather get a JLC Reverso Classique.

The frequent price increase on newly launched models isn’t really justified.
*
That’s just due to good ol demand and supply ain’t it?
Chinoz
post Oct 26 2020, 02:46 PM

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GS is practical, they work their magic on the things that you can see.
Besides, they're probably more in the Rolex bracket than HH, so in that respect they're probably better finished than your regular Sub?


QUOTE(Liamness @ Oct 26 2020, 02:36 PM)
watch owners are a weird breed.

They look at the polishing. But how many of them actually understand how a watch ticks..

Anyways, they are in the wrong collectors world la.

Today, it is all about collecting pokemon cards.

user posted image
*
I have a first ed Chansey (#3) waiting for its time in the sun...
Liamness
post Oct 26 2020, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(Chinoz @ Oct 26 2020, 02:46 PM)
GS is practical, they work their magic on the things that you can see.
Besides, they're probably more in the Rolex bracket than HH, so in that respect they're probably better finished than your regular Sub?
I have a first ed Chansey (#3) waiting for its time in the sun...
*
noice! how's the condition like? You should get it graded and kept in enclosed acrylic casing. If it returns a PSA 9, you stand to make 2k USD today. And pokemon cards are like fine art. The price just keeps going higher.
izart
post Oct 26 2020, 02:48 PM

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Pakai G-Shock dah lah scratch also no worries.
sidthesloth
post Oct 26 2020, 02:49 PM

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?? I've since when GS is comparable to those high end watches? For me they are moving towards that direction but not now. Maybe next 20 years? I don't know but for sure they'll be slowly moving to the top. To be fair, you should compare Credor with the higher end one, then it's fair

This post has been edited by sidthesloth: Oct 26 2020, 02:51 PM
9m2w
post Oct 26 2020, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 02:39 PM)
GS was worth its price when it was trading at around RM12-16k range. But when it hit Rolex and creeping into Jaeger LeCoultre price range, that’s when you realize that it’s no longer good value.

For RM20-30k range, I would rather get a JLC Reverso Classique.

The frequent price increase on newly launched models isn’t really justified.
*
I would actually love to get one GS one day. But its in the 20-30 K range now you say? Abit too expensive but it makes sense for it go up with inflation.

My issue with the GS is purely unker. I dislike the thickness of the case. Granted i think there are sound reasons for it but to me its just a bit off putting.


yeezai
post Oct 26 2020, 02:52 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 02:39 PM)
GS was worth its price when it was trading at around RM12-16k range. But when it hit Rolex and creeping into Jaeger LeCoultre price range, that’s when you realize that it’s no longer good value.

For RM20-30k range, I would rather get a JLC Reverso Classique.

The frequent price increase on newly launched models isn’t really justified.
*
Rollie oso having yearly price increase ma ..resell price is crazy also
lil_flank
post Oct 26 2020, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 02:18 PM)
Perlage is a century old finishing technique. I don’t know if any mamak table existed before then..
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Wahh... So according to u, all mamak tables were handcrafted.
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post Oct 26 2020, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Oct 26 2020, 02:48 PM)
noice! how's the condition like? You should get it graded and kept in enclosed acrylic casing. If it returns a PSA 9, you stand to make 2k USD today. And pokemon cards are like fine art. The price just keeps going higher.
*
I have no idea TBH. I was sad it wasn't a Charizard, put it in a sleeve and socked it in a cupboard somewhere.

Can it be graded in KL? I'm currently stuck overseas due to the closed borders, but for 2k USD, might be worth taking a second look.
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post Oct 26 2020, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(sidthesloth @ Oct 26 2020, 02:49 PM)
?? I've since when GS is comparable to those high end watches? For me they are moving towards that direction but not now. Maybe next 20 years? I don't know but for sure they'll be slowly moving to the top. To be fair, you should compare Credor with the higher end one, then it's fair
*
Well TS said it, their fans. Certain brands will have their more rabid fanboys..but if its inching up to 20-30k territory that already Omega moving into Rolexes.
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post Oct 26 2020, 02:55 PM

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QUOTE(Nachiino Etamay @ Oct 26 2020, 01:52 PM)
dumb people still collect watches after smartphone era? hahaha

sounds like people who still play golf or petangque when most of the people gone cycling already as a high-end sport
*
OK bro..this one very deep. Hard to tell if you're sarcastic and if you are who's the intended target hahaha
hjffgjng
post Oct 26 2020, 02:56 PM

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QUOTE(halglory @ Oct 26 2020, 01:48 PM)
seiko = casio
*
wat wromg wif casio
loli_yat
post Oct 26 2020, 02:56 PM

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It's cute to see people bickering about last century's technology
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post Oct 26 2020, 02:57 PM

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Seiko box is more valuable than the watch
mujinkun
post Oct 26 2020, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(daijoubu @ Oct 26 2020, 01:48 PM)
Why you compare hand polish vs machined polished laugh.gif
Breguet banyak machine polished mark
*
This.

Manual Polish vs Machine Auto Polish.


ihm11
post Oct 26 2020, 02:59 PM

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dis type hobby is bottomless $$$ pit
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post Oct 26 2020, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(Chinoz @ Oct 26 2020, 02:53 PM)
I have no idea TBH. I was sad it wasn't a Charizard, put it in a sleeve and socked it in a cupboard somewhere.

Can it be graded in KL? I'm currently stuck overseas due to the closed borders, but for 2k USD, might be worth taking a second look.
*
but you have to be absolutely sure that it is a 1999 published 1st Edition pokemon card for that 2k USD price. If not, it's probably not worth more than a few hundred USD at best.

If yes, then congrats.. you should definitely get it graded.

I think the grading can only be done in USA. Can use services like this: https://www.carousell.sg/p/psa-grading-card...rvice-65657985/

to get help on sending your card to get graded.
Chinoz
post Oct 26 2020, 03:01 PM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Oct 26 2020, 02:59 PM)
but you have to be absolutely sure that it is a 1999 published 1st Edition pokemon card for that 2k USD price. If not, it's probably not worth more than a few hundred USD at best.

If yes, then congrats.. you should definitely get it graded.

I think the grading can only be done in USA. Can use services like this: https://www.carousell.sg/p/psa-grading-card...rvice-65657985/

to get help on sending your card to get graded.
*
Awesome. Thanks for the heads up. Something to look forward to next year rclxms.gif
spacelion
post Oct 26 2020, 03:02 PM

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QUOTE(Nachiino Etamay @ Oct 26 2020, 01:52 PM)
dumb people still collect watches after smartphone era? hahaha

sounds like people who still play golf or petangque when most of the people gone cycling already as a high-end sport
*
huh

cycling is so last decade mang
Doomsday
post Oct 26 2020, 03:09 PM

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got ktard said perlage what ever hand technique on GS is same level as VC/PP ker? kikikiki

in b4 mamak table
halglory
post Oct 26 2020, 03:09 PM

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QUOTE(hjffgjng @ Oct 26 2020, 02:56 PM)
wat wromg wif casio
*
unker used to have a kolik, one time he complain his watch "san san dei", then unker ask him to send to casio to repair la
walao, he damn mad because he's wearing a seiko, from then on unker calls his watch a kesio (play of word for seiko = kesio = casio)
more2teayap
post Oct 26 2020, 03:13 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 01:45 PM)
I have just found out that modern Grand Seiko Movements are mostly unfinished on parts which are not visible through the see through caseback. This is quite a disappointment since GS is trying to match Rolex in price and a lot of their fans claimed that GS is high end and on par with Audemars Piguet, Patek Philippe and Vacheron Constantin but at a lower price point.

If they want to increase their prices, at least make sure all parts are finished equally.

Photos are taken from Watchuseek High End forum.

This is the movement plate for a Grand Seiko GMT.

[attachmentid=10653958]

And below is the movement plate for a Breguet 5177.

[attachmentid=10653959]

The biggest slap in the face is that an equivalent Breguet can be had for around the same price as a Grand Seiko in the preowned market due to massive depreciation on Breguet watches.
*
Hmm..


GS 9S86
Attached Image

Rolex 3285
Attached Image
drowning
post Oct 26 2020, 03:15 PM

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TS conlanfirm blind. Take a loupe and take a closer look into the so-called bland GS movement and hand.
Doomsday
post Oct 26 2020, 03:16 PM

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QUOTE(more2teayap @ Oct 26 2020, 03:13 PM)
Hmm..
GS 9S86
Attached Image

Rolex 3285
Attached Image
*
loleks got See thru CB meh innocent.gif
more2teayap
post Oct 26 2020, 03:16 PM

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QUOTE(Doomsday @ Oct 26 2020, 03:16 PM)
loleks got See thru CB meh  innocent.gif
*
Tak de sad.gif
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 03:23 PM

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QUOTE(more2teayap @ Oct 26 2020, 03:13 PM)
Hmm..
GS 9S86
Attached Image

Rolex 3285
Attached Image
*
I didn’t know that Rolex is considered high end and on par with Audemars Piguet..
more2teayap
post Oct 26 2020, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(daijoubu @ Oct 26 2020, 02:01 PM)
Hand finished yes, but from the picture you show its obvious the hand finishing didnt apply on the surface of the back where you can still see many circular milled marks.
They try to make it look nice but its a cheaper way to "make it look nice". if it's hand finished, or if there are additional processing done after the CNC milling you won't see those marks anymore.

Honestly it's ugly AF because it looks very rough and you can see the circular marks inside each "scale".
*
I rmb the marks are purposely machined onto the movement surface, it is there to catch if there are any dust/small particle in the movement so that it won't destroy the movement.
more2teayap
post Oct 26 2020, 03:25 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 03:23 PM)
I didn’t know that Rolex is considered high end and on par with Audemars Piguet..
*
I didn't know GS is on par with AP too, most i heard are ppl comparing GS with rolex jer biggrin.gif

Maybe they are talking about Credor?

This post has been edited by more2teayap: Oct 26 2020, 03:26 PM
djlake
post Oct 26 2020, 03:26 PM

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thank you for the info. your contribution to this community is very much appreciated.
beetch
post Oct 26 2020, 03:29 PM

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Only sohai buy GS.

True storeyz.
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(more2teayap @ Oct 26 2020, 03:25 PM)
I didn't know GS is on par with AP too,  most i heard are ppl comparing GS with rolex jer biggrin.gif

Maybe they are talking about Credor?
*
Chinoz
post Oct 26 2020, 03:32 PM

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Basically TS ter-rasa people compare GS with his AP laugh.gif
more2teayap
post Oct 26 2020, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 03:30 PM)
*
Cool, how much is a new Breguet with GMT?

This post has been edited by more2teayap: Oct 26 2020, 03:33 PM
hotjake
post Oct 26 2020, 03:33 PM

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1 sample size, legit
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post Oct 26 2020, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(more2teayap @ Oct 26 2020, 03:33 PM)
Cool, how much is a new Breguet with GMT?
*
Three handler steel Breguet is around RM20k+ while a 3 hand GS snowflake is also around RM20k+..

Or would you prefer a flyback Chronograph from Breguet for RM20k+?



This post has been edited by friedricetheman: Oct 26 2020, 03:38 PM
James1983
post Oct 26 2020, 03:39 PM

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For sure no where near the level, nor quality of Holy Trinity
Doomsday
post Oct 26 2020, 03:40 PM

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QUOTE(Chinoz @ Oct 26 2020, 03:32 PM)
Basically TS ter-rasa people compare GS with his AP laugh.gif
*
triggered kot, trinity kena masuk same bus as GS biggrin.gif
more2teayap
post Oct 26 2020, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 03:35 PM)
Or would you prefer a flyback Chronograph from Breguet for RM20k+?
*
drool.gif Nice.. can get this price locally retail?
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 03:43 PM

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QUOTE(more2teayap @ Oct 26 2020, 03:41 PM)
drool.gif Nice.. can get this price locally retail?
*
Yup. Saw Wingwah selling it not too long ago.
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post Oct 26 2020, 03:44 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 03:43 PM)
Yup. Saw Wingwah selling it not too long ago.
*
wingwah.. pre-owned?
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 03:45 PM

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QUOTE(more2teayap @ Oct 26 2020, 03:44 PM)
wingwah.. pre-owned?
*
Yup. Didn’t you read my original post? Preowned prices for Breguet is equivalent to GS prices.
titanmelvin
post Oct 26 2020, 03:46 PM

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QUOTE(Chinoz @ Oct 26 2020, 03:32 PM)
Basically TS ter-rasa people compare GS with his AP laugh.gif
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1 person only
more2teayap
post Oct 26 2020, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 03:45 PM)
Yup. Didn’t you read my original post? Preowned prices for Breguet is equivalent to GS prices.
*
Ah.. My bad my bad, okay.. I missed the keyword.. thought new Breguet can get at new GS price
novblaze
post Oct 26 2020, 03:52 PM

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GS is not on par yet...


Credor is...

user posted image



Inb4 Credor still a seiko

This post has been edited by novblaze: Oct 26 2020, 03:55 PM
timeonce
post Oct 26 2020, 03:52 PM

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Just a stupid watch. Buy iphone still got money left. Somemore will notify u via alarm. Dont say iphone. Nokia 3310 RM50 also can.. oh why .. still got ppl use watch nowdays ?? so outdated

Polish or no polish. u being dupe by grand seiko or other million dollar watch. haha. those ppl too rich d


This post has been edited by timeonce: Oct 26 2020, 03:52 PM
Hean
post Oct 26 2020, 03:54 PM

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QUOTE(CertifiedHomphobe @ Oct 26 2020, 01:51 PM)
GS kills it with its dial and case finish. Super crisps and unreal lines overall..

What kills it for me is GSs subpar bracelet, something you'd expect better of from that price point. The reason rolex is well sought after is, you guessed it. The bracelet.

Sure the movement might not be well decorated, but from an engineering standpoint, spring drive is one of the pinnacles of horology.

I don't think the movement finish is really an issue when there's blaring issues like their bracelet. They still make surreal looking watches though.
*
What is so nice about the bracelet? Got example?
ze2
post Oct 26 2020, 03:55 PM

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Just buy rolex
swanlover
post Oct 26 2020, 04:14 PM

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JLC Master Compressor is also a good option...great stuff.

Not really a fans of Seiko..
subliminal_dreams
post Oct 26 2020, 04:14 PM

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I was looking at a Snowflake a couple of years ago. Yes, the paper-ish dial looks gorgeous with a nice layout, but to me the bracelet design was kinda meh. Having titanium and it's susceptibility to scratches is also questionable. But the worst for me was the lack of an instant date change.. really sloppy for a supposedly high end watch.
swanlover
post Oct 26 2020, 04:20 PM

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JLC Master Compressor is also a good option...great stuff.

Not really a fans of Seiko..
Chinoz
post Oct 26 2020, 04:24 PM

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QUOTE(timeonce @ Oct 26 2020, 03:52 PM)
Just a stupid watch. Buy iphone still got money left. Somemore will notify u via alarm. Dont say iphone. Nokia 3310 RM50 also can.. oh why .. still got ppl use watch nowdays ?? so outdated

Polish or no polish. u being dupe by grand seiko or other million dollar watch. haha. those ppl too rich d
*
Hear hear, the sole voice of reason ITT.
mickeysew814
post Oct 26 2020, 04:25 PM

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those mark, ouch. My eye.

In machining world, I don’t think anyone want to have those blink blink finishing.

My 2 cents
ahmad92
post Oct 26 2020, 04:30 PM

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Ts sama gang dengan orang tercalar ego bila kereta ferrari kena compare dengan nissan gtr. Lol
yvliew
post Oct 26 2020, 04:30 PM

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GS maybe same level as rolex.. but never claim to be on Patek or breguet or other high end luxury..

that kind of level need Seiko's CREDOR to compete..

Credor > Grand Seiko > Seiko
gordonchin
post Oct 26 2020, 04:31 PM

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Cartier santos growing on me during this cmco
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(yvliew @ Oct 26 2020, 04:30 PM)
GS maybe same level as rolex.. but never claim to be on Patek or breguet or other high end luxury..

that kind of level need Seiko's CREDOR to compete..

Credor > Grand Seiko > Seiko
*
Certain people on watch forums believe that GS belongs in the High End category and have started flooding the High end forums with Grand Seiko pictures.

I believe a few ktards also probably believe that GS is high end. The same guys who also believe that Rolex is considered high end.
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 05:21 PM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Oct 26 2020, 02:59 PM)
but you have to be absolutely sure that it is a 1999 published 1st Edition pokemon card for that 2k USD price. If not, it's probably not worth more than a few hundred USD at best.

If yes, then congrats.. you should definitely get it graded.

I think the grading can only be done in USA. Can use services like this: https://www.carousell.sg/p/psa-grading-card...rvice-65657985/

to get help on sending your card to get graded.
*
I have power nine + complete playsets of original duals.

Is it worth anything or not?

This post has been edited by friedricetheman: Oct 26 2020, 05:21 PM
8020life
post Oct 26 2020, 05:23 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 04:55 PM)
Certain people on watch forums believe that GS belongs in the High End category and have started flooding the High end forums with Grand Seiko pictures.

I believe a few ktards also probably believe that GS is high end. The same guys who also believe that Rolex is considered high end.
*
Grand Seiko should be on par or depending on the individual, slightly better than Rolex? To compare GS with the Swiss Trinity is a bit of a stretch!
Liamness
post Oct 26 2020, 05:23 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 05:21 PM)
I have power nine + complete playsets of original duals.

Is it worth anything or not?
*
what condition?

if all in top grade mint 10, probably 30k usd? MTG not really fetch the high mark.

Pokemon does, because that's what all of the millennials were playing.

This post has been edited by Liamness: Oct 26 2020, 05:24 PM
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 05:25 PM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Oct 26 2020, 05:23 PM)
what condition?

if all in top grade mint 10, probably 30k usd? MTG not really fetch the high mark.

Pokemon does, because that's what all of the millennials were playing.
*
Lol. You sure boh. Got offers from overseas for way more than that. The lotus alone is 30k..
styrwr91
post Oct 26 2020, 05:26 PM

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First, Rolex is not high end... 2nd, GS never say they wanna compete with Swiss Trinity
swanlover
post Oct 26 2020, 05:26 PM

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Current grey Rolex pricing is already touching or even exceeded AP or Patek prices (certain models)

Surely, it’s not at their level, but these pricing makes it extremely precious commodities.
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post Oct 26 2020, 05:27 PM

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QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 05:25 PM)
Lol. You sure boh. Got offers from overseas for way more than that. The lotus alone is 30k..
*
sell to me. haha thumbup.gif
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 05:31 PM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Oct 26 2020, 05:27 PM)
sell to me. haha thumbup.gif
*
Buyer already confirmed. They are flying down after the Corvid19 to check my card condition.

You lowball me USD$ 30k, how to sell to you?

Try adding an extra 0 if you want my whole collection complete with a play set of all tournament playable cards from Beta until 2018 sets. Complete with all real estates including Beta basic lands and all the mana artifacts.
swanlover
post Oct 26 2020, 05:33 PM

Getting Started
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Joined: Jun 2014


QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 05:31 PM)
Buyer already confirmed. They are flying down after the Corvid19 to check my card condition.

You lowball me USD$ 30k, how to sell to you?

Try adding an extra 0 if you want my whole collection complete with a play set of all tournament playable cards from Beta until 2018 sets. Complete with all real estates including Beta basic lands and all the mana artifacts.
*
Do u ever use chr24 to sell?
IcyDarling
post Oct 26 2020, 05:35 PM

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Joined: Sep 2008


TS better u let me know what is cheapo watch but look high keras
TSfriedricetheman
post Oct 26 2020, 05:43 PM

Watch Idiot Savant
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632 posts

Joined: Sep 2008
From: Not sure


QUOTE(swanlover @ Oct 26 2020, 05:33 PM)
Do u ever use chr24 to sell?
*
Sometimes but I prefer to sell through GtG meetups. If the GtG coincide with my business trip, I will just pop quickly into it and meeting up my buyer who will then appraise the watch.

I don’t sell to strangers. Too risky and very high chance of getting robbed.

QUOTE(IcyDarling @ Oct 26 2020, 05:35 PM)
TS better u let me know what is cheapo watch but look high keras
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Gorilla watches. Super high end materials like ceramics. Beautiful and avant-garde designs. The designers came from Audemars Piguet.

Or can go artwist if you prefer something below RM500 and Malaysian made.
Liamness
post Oct 26 2020, 07:17 PM

Casual
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426 posts

Joined: Aug 2018
QUOTE(friedricetheman @ Oct 26 2020, 05:31 PM)
Buyer already confirmed. They are flying down after the Corvid19 to check my card condition.

You lowball me USD$ 30k, how to sell to you?

Try adding an extra 0 if you want my whole collection complete with a play set of all tournament playable cards from Beta until 2018 sets. Complete with all real estates including Beta basic lands and all the mana artifacts.
*
Cry.
pgsiemkia
post Oct 26 2020, 07:24 PM

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Junior Member
257 posts

Joined: Dec 2009
From: Timbuktoo

QUOTE(swks26 @ Oct 26 2020, 01:48 PM)
When did GS claim to be on par with AP, PP and VC?
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They never did, only fanbois and utubers excited due to rolex un-buyable nowadays.

Normal ppl cnt afford PP, AP or VC anyway.


 

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