Hello, I am a fresh graduate from a local university. The mco really hit hard for us for these past few months. I got a job as a analyst programmer in a company but it has been 5 months no offer letter,EPF and socso. They say i am working as consultant currently. For the time beign, i am looking for a job while working here.

I want to know what is the importance of epf and socso? Should i quit now or i quit after i secure a job??

The company did not have the exact date to offer me as full time worker for now.

This post has been edited by killer_venom95: Aug 12 2020, 09:51 AM

Dont jump until next job is in hand.

As they say, beggars cant be choosers.

it's like freelancing lor.

as long as got gaji work 1st la til u find another permanent job.

look it up

im not sure if its legal to hire without those benefits

Well there is no aggreement of letter or payslip.. nothing can do... better i jump rather than fight for it..

This post has been edited by killer_venom95: Aug 12 2020, 09:53 AM

True, this is the things that keep me work right now

Yeah on searching right now

i going to assume u mean its better to get other job rather than fight for it

if its true, then yes, basically they can stop giving u any funds anytime, but so does u, no notice period, so u are entitle to work at some other place as well

yes anytime they can kick me. Ohhh i see... good to know about that.

From my understanding, EPF is like a savings regulated by government to make sure the employee has some money in their account in the future when they retired. EPF is important as many employees do not have savings, so government help the employees by "forcing" them to take out 11% from their pay and put in EPF account, where employers must contributed 13% of your salary. Lets say if my basic pay is 1000, every month 110 will be deducted from my pay and automatically enter my EPF account, my employer has to pay 130 according to my salary, which means every month I get 240 in my EPF account. Main reason your company dont want to pay ur epf I guess is they dont want to contribute on that 13%.

For SOCSO, it acts like an insurance to cover your living in case u have any accidents that hinder your working ability for a few months. Lets say u got hit by a car and both your hands are temporarily broken, you will have to apply socso to cover your monthly wages providing you have the MC getting from ur doctor to prove that u can recover from the accident and need time to heal your wounds. SOCSO will pay u as long as u still in recovery period by giving u a percentage of your basic monthly. Some companies dont think highly of applying socso for their employees because office works usually does not pose a high accident rate like construction site or factory work.

Hope that clears your confusion, my information is just based on my understanding. Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.

Are you kidding us?

EPF is for future savings, especially retirement.

SOCSO is like insurance. if you met with accident during work time, SOCSO will cover the medical expenses.

but if you start off without EPF in these hard times, dont bother since EPF savings aint much for fresh graduates.
Perhaps you wanna look for a more stable job after the pandemic.

Thank for your explanation. I understand for a bit. The company di pay the epf and socso for existing worker.. just me and few other colleagues that enter the company during MCO did not get the benefit. Did not have exact date when will we be full time worker.. My probation did start yet even after 5 months working here.

Go to the SOCSO website and sign up for the self employed SOCSO protection. You pay at most RM50 per month roughly and it's basically for your own benefit. This should cover you while the company is not, or while you look for another job.

https://www.perkeso.gov.my/index.php/en/30-...t-injury-scheme

Agreed. I just found out about this last year. Even though I have an account a long time ago.. haha..

As of now, just work at the company. Before you leave, please do report to the statutory body.
It is WRONG not to contribute EPF/SOCSO for the employee unless you are freelance. Part-time also need to contribute.

Thank You I will check it out.

Nope.. This is the truth

As i know, some company will have probation lasts for 6 months even for senior position. But they can enjoy the same medical benefits, EPF and Sosco like permanent staff unless you are a contract staff.
Offer letter should be given before or once you have joined the company.
Once you have been confirmed, then there is confirmation letter for full time worker.

Hmm... I have to say, from the perspective of a micro-scale business owner, TS' company's practice of not paying EPF/SOCSO sounds less than kosher ...

Do you know the details of your exact contact with the company? The only time they can get away with not paying EPF or Socso is if you're being retained as a contractor (note that this is different from being a contract worker). Think of it as being similar to how you engage somebody to renovate your house, where you only pay for the services rendered, and not pay for EPF or Socso.

So you'll need to dig into your existing contract to find out what the fine details are.

As for the importance, it's critical literally for anything like applying for a credit card, loans, etc. Most times banks won't regard the payslips as sufficient proof of income, and will ask to see your EPF balance.

An ex-boss did try to legalise not paying of EPF/Socso on us before. He tried to ask us to register a business then he'll engage with our registered business instead. We all left and he had to shut down.

Gosh. That's sneaky! If you guys had done that, you might run into the problem of setting up "shell" companies and be accused of tax avoidance by LHDN!

I have done this on both sides (buyer of services and seller of services) and there is nothing wrong with this model, however the negotiation is on a completely different level ie. it's no longer salaries but a service charge, and the costs as a service buyer will be much higher.

For example if an individual's salary was RM4k, I used to pay closer to RM10k monthly for services, the extras are EPF/SOCSO/benefits that I don't have to pay as a service buyer and you get as cash as a service provider. When I became the service provider, I set up a company and paid myself a salary/benefits instead.

In the case of the TS though there is no contract ie. signed offer letter, hence he should get his own SOCSO protection and get a new job as soon as realistically possible

This post has been edited by tishaban: Aug 12 2020, 11:49 AM

A few of us ended up setting up Sdn Bhds anyways, as some of the clients actually approached us wanting to engage us directly.

But yeah, for the case of the TS, what I'm curious about is the current nature of his engagement, and what's on the existing contract is there is one.

Maybe i should tell more, Currently i am working at a branch. The HR is on the HQ. The "boss" here keep telling me he will settle with HR and so on.. but when i try to contact HR.. he stop me from then... my boss here keep saying in process.. i know something fishy...either HR stop hiring for now.. or he just hire me without HR knowledge.. i dont think the company fault here. sorry

I should explained sooner.

The key now is to protect yourself no matter what happens, while maintaining your income

First do SOCSO as I gave earlier

Are you getting paychecks? Direct debit to your account? PCB (ie. deduction of taxes by LHDN) done correctly? Call up LHDN and confirm
Keep all records (bank statements, payslips)

If LHDN deduction is not done correctly, ask LHDN for help on how to calculate etc. If your pay is not high then there's no taxes to pay so you may be safe but only LHDN can say that.

Since this sounds shady and since you're already receiving money for the past 5 months, try your best to cover your ass for the future.

Is it correct to say that there's totally no existing signed contact between you and the company at the moment?

You can always contact your HR directly, any reporting managers is not able to stop ppl from talking to HR directly for anything. However keep in mind that your manager may not be happy if he finds out (definitely will as HR will ask him what is going on).

The best course of action will be like what others have suggested, which is to start looking for a new job in the mean time. You'll probably be wanting to stay on for the time being if you need the income. You do also have the option of asking HR what's going on with your engagement with the company once you've got a new job secured.

ps. needless to say, a job is only considered as secured once you've signed the contract, and not before. not even on a verbal offer. in fact, you don't want to start work before signing the contract, so keep this in mind before you leave for any new jobs you secured.

edit: thinking back again on what you said. HR is the one who handles the payroll. if you're hired without HR knowing, then you won't get paid. Unless it's like what I suspected where you're being retained as a contractor, then your boss may be able to pay you directly from his team's operating budget for services rendered.

This post has been edited by malleus: Aug 12 2020, 12:19 PM

Agreed

Thank you bro. Yes i will be careful in the future.

Yes i still got paid.... he promised me when i entered office he will give me offer letter and start my probation... but it has been three months and he keep saying processing... i will keep working until i secure a job then.

Since you oredi know the huha .. the next is are you going to walk out after receiving your pay and join the next company ?

Is better you decide now how you plan your exit.