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 UPS does it work here in Malaysia?, PSUs with PFC and simulated sinewave UPS

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TSsakuraboo
post Aug 5 2020, 12:50 AM, updated 4y ago

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Hi I've been searching articles regarding ups and compatibility with psu that uses pfc to attain higher efficiency, particularly psu with gold ratings.

Thing is, the recommended ups for a pfc psu are the pure sine wave ups instead of the common cheaper simulated sine wave ups from what i understand reading.

However, our voltage ratings are higher than those countries that seem to report problems with pfc ups and simulated sine wave ups. The other issue is i can't seem to find line interactive pure sine wave ups to purchase locally here. It's either online pure sine wave or line interactive simulated sine wave ups.



What is your experience with these commonly found line interactive simulated sine wave ups and gold rated pfc psu?

Do they work here in Malaysia?

Or create any issues?

Thanks sifus.

This post has been edited by sakuraboo: Aug 5 2020, 12:52 AM
yeo1992cc
post Aug 9 2020, 06:26 PM

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pure sine wave ups means the sine wave generated in battery mode is waveform looked like "wmwm"

simulated sine wave ups means the sine wave generated in battery mode is square looked like "_n_n"

long term running on simulated sine wave ups is not good for appliances, especially those sensitive one. As for whether to choose pure/simulated sine wave is according whether your appliances worth that much to protect it or not, as pure sine wave UPS is not cheap. With that price, you could get simulated sine wave UPS with much bigger battery capacity.

If you looking for branded one, you could try APC, Emerson, Eaton, etc.
TSsakuraboo
post Aug 9 2020, 07:30 PM

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QUOTE(yeo1992cc @ Aug 9 2020, 06:26 PM)
pure sine wave ups means the sine wave generated in battery mode is waveform looked like "wmwm"

simulated sine wave ups means the sine wave generated in battery mode is square looked like "_n_n"

long term running on simulated sine wave ups is not good for appliances, especially those sensitive one. As for whether to choose pure/simulated sine wave is according whether your appliances worth that much to protect it or not, as pure sine wave UPS is not cheap. With that price, you could get simulated sine wave UPS with much bigger battery capacity.

If you looking for branded one, you could try APC, Emerson, Eaton, etc.
*
Thing is I'm curious whether the regular ups works for our electrical environment regarding pfc PSUs. Regular ie simulated sine wave line interactive ones. Some PSUs with pfc apparently thinks that there is no electricity during the _ part of the _n_n and turn off instead of attempting to hold up.
yeo1992cc
post Aug 9 2020, 10:27 PM

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Sorry I not quite good on this pf.

As I know electricity Malaysia single-phase (still made from three phase but instead only two wired) or three-phase.

In case you have bad phase ratio, your power factor of course would also affected. In that sense normally I would request the service provider to fix the bad phase first. A leading or lagging little power factor is acceptable for all appliances. It just you might use more power consumption.

In case you have bad power factor, I advise you improve your power factor by installing equipment in the main power line instead, such as capacitor bank, etc.

As for your last question about some PSUs with PFC...
Unsure why what does PFC doing with the on and off parts.
If you using AC appliance, the waveform is very sensitive, therefore pure sine wave is the one to go. Else you might faced the on off issue like you mentioned.

This post has been edited by yeo1992cc: Aug 9 2020, 10:29 PM
TSsakuraboo
post Aug 10 2020, 11:50 AM

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QUOTE(yeo1992cc @ Aug 9 2020, 10:27 PM)
Sorry I not quite good on this pf.

As I know electricity Malaysia single-phase (still made from three phase but instead only two wired) or three-phase.

In case you have bad phase ratio, your power factor of course would also affected. In that sense normally I would request the service provider to fix the bad phase first. A leading or lagging little power factor is acceptable for all appliances. It just you might use more power consumption.

In case you have bad power factor, I advise you improve your power factor by installing equipment in the main power line instead, such as capacitor bank, etc.

As for your last question about some PSUs with PFC...
Unsure why what does PFC doing with the on and off parts.
If you using AC appliance, the waveform is very sensitive, therefore pure sine wave is the one to go. Else you might faced the on off issue like you mentioned.
*
The pfc is commonly used in gold rated high efficiency psu used in pc
yeo1992cc
post Aug 10 2020, 01:13 PM

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alright, I understand your question now, you are referring to the PCF in the PC PSU.
Not in other PSU like server/rack PSU, nor the UPS PFC.

1. Some UPS have PFC function as well.

2. If your PSU have PFC, it might work and might not work well. Case by case basic, advise you get pure sine wave instead. However, you always discuss with vendor whether can test it working with your equipment or nope, if nope return it and get the pure sine wave.
TSsakuraboo
post Aug 10 2020, 01:26 PM

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QUOTE(yeo1992cc @ Aug 10 2020, 01:13 PM)
alright, I understand your question now, you are referring to the PCF in the PC PSU.
Not in other PSU like server/rack PSU, nor the UPS PFC.

1. Some UPS have PFC function as well.

2. If your PSU have PFC, it might work and might not work well. Case by case basic, advise you get pure sine wave instead. However, you always discuss with vendor whether can test it working with your equipment or nope, if nope return it and get the pure sine wave.
*
Thing is i notice nobody complains that their psu can't work with any ups

For eg if some unsuspecting person buys a simulated sine wave ups and fail for their system because of pfc but does not realise, he would probably complain about it.

But for some reason i haven't found people mentioning it here in Malaysia. So I'm wondering does 240v affect it or maybe psu nowadays can handle simulated sine wave better. 240v have increased efficiency for eg in any psu.

Maybe i should try buying any random simulated sine wave for my system, turn the mains off and try?
yeo1992cc
post Aug 10 2020, 10:49 PM

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1. If you buy UPS that can support bigger load, general-use in PC would should not be causing the PCF issue you mention. However if you PC is heavy load, that might be another case.

2. As per my advice previously, suggest you negotiate with vendor whether can try the simulated sine wave, if have issue, then return the unit and top-up for pure sine wave UPS.
power911
post Aug 13 2020, 09:52 PM

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If your PSU cannot handle simulated sine wave then I think you better upgrade your PSU.
Simulated sine wave is still sine wave, just more square. A psu should smooth every noise from the rough shape. I mean if switching power supply is the current norm I'm ok with what modern tech can do.

My Neuropower 1500VA (that does crazy humming buzzing sounds when on battery) is running fine with my pc with Superflower 750W psu, my cheapo chinese Aiyima A03 Amp and my extra sensitive to electric spikes LG monitor.

I have faith that PSU will smooth out as much noise from a UPS in my case. It ain't business server level of concern in my case but if my monitor won't flicker or shut down from the dirty power and my amp doesn't buzz from the simulated waves, then I'd give a pass to a more expensive computer psu to smooth out any square-y sine wave my ups supply.

Plus most of the low range UPS don't even run battery until a power cut then only it switches to battery. I'm more concerned if the gap between power cut to battery mode is shutting down my pc.

Also some UPS does voltage regulating as my office is running close to 250v and my UPS drops the power down to 240v

This post has been edited by power911: Aug 13 2020, 09:54 PM
TSsakuraboo
post Aug 13 2020, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(power911 @ Aug 13 2020, 09:52 PM)
If your PSU cannot handle simulated sine wave then I think you better upgrade your PSU.
Simulated sine wave is still sine wave, just more square. A psu should smooth every noise from the rough shape. I mean if switching power supply is the current norm I'm ok with what modern tech can do.

My Neuropower 1500VA (that does crazy humming buzzing sounds when on battery) is running fine with my pc with Superflower 750W psu, my cheapo chinese Aiyima A03 Amp and my extra sensitive to electric spikes LG monitor.

I have faith that PSU will smooth out as much noise from a UPS in my case. It ain't business server level of concern in my case but if my monitor won't flicker or shut down from the dirty power and my amp doesn't buzz from the simulated waves, then I'd give a pass to a more expensive computer psu to smooth out any square-y sine wave my ups supply.

Plus most of the low range UPS don't even run battery until a power cut then only it switches to battery. I'm more concerned if the gap between power cut to battery mode is shutting down my pc.

Also some UPS does voltage regulating as my office is running close to 250v and my UPS drops the power down to 240v
*
Oddly this psu issues usually happen with more expensive gold or platinum rated PSUs and above because they utilise active power factor correction for higher efficiency. But because of the near square wave pattern, the PSU incorrectly switches off instead of working.

In cheaper PSUs the issue is hold up time in which they can't hold up power long enough for the ups to kick into action. Or even ups for that matter.

But good to know your superflower works well with your neuropower. What i notice is, nobody in Malaysia seems to complain about incompatibility with any psu with any ups. So maybe 240v environment has some mitigating effect of any pfc disruption when used with simulated sine wave ups.



 

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