Hi all

i know markup loan has become very common nowadays but is it actually legal?

There is no law to say you must sell at market price.

All price negotiation on subsale is agreement between seller buyer.

New launch is not necessary market price.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jul 21 2020, 07:38 AM

Also the implication will be on effective RPGT payable but good news is it's waived till end of 2021, the other consideration will be potential visit from authorities to justify higher selling part i.e money laundering attempt?

the direct impact purchase is your loan and SPA agreement fees will increase as well? and if bank valuer given a lower price, bank wont be able to loan you the full mark up sum also

Want to markup also needed to be smart..

If u go up 50% or more market rate / previous transactions less 1 or 2 year... Then trouble for u 🤭

In some countries, this is loan fraud, a felony.

who so stupid wanna to pay more to bank?

Its not wrong to sell higher than market price, but he said "loan markup" as in stated selling/buying price say 1.5mil in SPA & Loan, but in actual buyer only pay 1mil to seller so technically that is frauding the bank.

If the borrower defaulted soon after loan dispersed, the valuer who valued $1.5m risk delisted from bank panel.

short answer. It is illegal

Loan financing is base on selling price.

There is no such thing as loan mark up to get higher loan .. but there is mark up selling price to obtain higher loan.

If borrow can fraud the bank, why not ? ... 1mdb ?

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jul 21 2020, 11:03 AM

yes. illegal.

I wont say is totally illegal per say.

There is no fixed price for a property but there are range of prices for similar properties. As long the SnP price is within the range, is acceptable to valuer.

The higher end property will have wider range and vice versa.

One cannot find similar or closer value for a detached property compared to terrace.

seen that many times..

I thought this common for many transactions....

1mdb? u better not touch that... very sensitive issues

Today you are very popular in Serious Kopitiam ?

Anything that involve cheating is illegal.

I know..
Just keep silent to see how the drama going...
Finally it's ended with boss 7sen comes 💪

Should give 30days suspension instead of just 7days. Create so much problem 🤬😠

If only that were true in our country..

Boss be sensible what bank/valuer gonna give you that value in the first place la.

As long there is 2 price exist in a sales and purchase agreement, it is illegal. or maybe with your expertise you can share with us how you beat the system.

In a SnP, there is ONLY ONE price.

Somehow, someday there will be a noob who will buy at inflated price and I dont think is illegal. The bank / valuer may think he bought at mark up price and adjust the loan accordingly.

As mentioned earlier, there is a range of prices of similar properties. When the property was purchased at the highest range, we cant say is mark up unless is way beyond acceptable level.

If the buyer can beat the system, then he gained with a slightly higher loan. A 30k mark up for a 80% loan is 24k.and is acceptable for a 500k property.

What happened behnd the SnP is between seller buyer.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jul 21 2020, 10:13 PM

I think what TS meant is the SPA is marked up at a higher price in order for him to obtain a loan. In fact there is an actual purchase price agreed upon by the seller and buyer at a lower price compared to the written value on the spa.

Buyer can put whatever spa price but bank loan follow valuers price. Now a day, not many valuer will give overinflated price.

Today's reality, usually the purchaser will obtain an offer from bank before deciding to mark up an SPA. So, I'll assume the Offer Letter is obtained before the execution of SPA. Usually inside the SPA, it will written the submission of SPA at what value.

Mutual agreement between buyer and seller.. Normally bank will base on professional valuer

This post has been edited by tripleA+: Jul 22 2020, 12:28 AM

I know there is only 1 price is SPA. But there is definitely a supplementary agreement to state the vendor selling price (Actual selling price). therefore it is illegal to do so.

There are ways to settle the mark up price. One dont need a supplement agreement between seller buyer.

it is legal - as you can quote as discounts to purchaser

So this kind of side agreement can really make it legal??

Yes, otherwise im replying this from jail already.

If the loan is defaulted soon after dispersed, it will be a different story.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 24 2020, 03:00 AM

There is NEVER an agreement in the first place.

What goes behind the scene of SnP is neither with your or my knowledge.

If the govt can accept it, the bank can approve the loan, who are we to say is illegal or otherwise ?

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jul 24 2020, 06:08 AM

As though those without mark up no default ?

The need to mark up loan is why mark up loan has higher default risks.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 24 2020, 06:09 AM

In some countries, this is loan fraud, a felony.

You can NEVER proved marked-up in the first place if seller buyer agreed.

Conviction of a crime is based on evidence and not hear say. Nobody will write b&w for 'illegal' transactions.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jul 24 2020, 07:41 AM

So it is not considered a loan fraud in Malaysia?..haha sorry im in dillema right now...there are a lot of grey areas but when i go to all the banks, all bankers suggested markup price and even some bankers admit they markup even for their own property..but reading all the things in internet , i am not sure if the supplementary agreement for discounts were made , would it be fully legal.

What is fraud ? ...is when someone suffered a financial loss....in marked cases ...

Govt will collect higher stamp duty (mot) for marked up sale.

Govt will collect higher stamp duty for loan agreement

Govt will collect higher rpgt tax, if applicable.

Will govt charge the seller buyer for such transaction ? and

Banker will collect higher loan interest payment.





Default by borrower is lain cerita.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jul 24 2020, 07:02 AM

As long as loan is repaid on time is fine.

all i can say is everyone is giving their point of view and writing all the advises here carry no weight ... until someone get complain and start investigation from the Official party ...

that time la... ppl start to pusing the story .. it is pretty common here in k/

Marked up wasnt started yesterday.

Compressed loan wasnt started yesterday

Is all in the open. Press reported. Official mof statements made.

BNM is NOT sleeping, not sure about you.

They can ONLY implement rules to curb but CANNOT stop.

How many kg of info you need ? Just google and tons are available.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jul 25 2020, 07:22 PM

How to markup the loan?

Read my earlier post.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jul 25 2020, 06:07 PM

The issue is you have Never been caught yet. It is 100% illegal and will fall under Section 420 for INTENTIONALLY deceiving and fraudulently in order to gain from the bank. Understand the law first. Just Because You have Never been caught doesnt mean it is legal. Those who aiding and abetting would similarly be charged under s34 as well

Just cut the BS down & prove it's 100% illegal then and be consistent.

He said Technically not illegal, but at the same time 100% illegal. Kinda conpius.

Dono what he's trying 2 say but more importantly is the hot money already in pocket. Who cares after all.

This post has been edited by propertyowner: Jul 26 2020, 12:54 AM

Although there are enough legislation to charge marked up loan borrower for loan fraud. however, local bank is more keen to recover debts and police commercial crime division don't normally get involve in debts recovery. given rising npl from marked up loan, it won't be a surprise some will be charged for loan fraud to deter future offence, especially those marked up for huge cash back.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 26 2020, 01:04 AM

Developer selling to you can be in similar methodology but they never call it as mark up loan. Just deep dive more on how things work n you'll be surprised.

For reasons, some banks give low LTV to some developers units.

Most of the times, banks gav high LTV to developers with rebates/discounts.

There is a BIG different between marked-up price for loan purpose and marked-up price for supply of services/products.

The former is 'executed' through the loan agreement where 'REPAYMENT IS MANDATORY'. Upon settlement of the loan, banks have collected back the principal disbursed plus interest. There is NO loss to the bank. There is NO fraud.

Again, I repeat ... default by borrower is lain cerita .


The latter is 'executed' through a price increase for the supply of services/products. Suppliers dont benefit from the price increase. Less services/products are being supplied for the same amount of money paid. There is a LOSS to the company that have paid a higher price for the services/products. The person who received the 'marked-up' is NOT OBLIGATED' to repay the money received. THIS IS FRAUD !

The forner is 'legal' and the latter is ILLEGAL !

It NOT a surprised that NON will be charged for 'loan fraud' which is 'illegal' made legal between banks and borrowers through a LEGAL STAMPED LOAN AGREEMENT !

Banks are 'illegal' Ah Long made legal by BNM through issuance of banking licences while Ah Long are 'illegal' made illegal due to non compliance requirements ! Nevertheless, both are money lenders !

If marked-up is bank compliance, how is it a fraud ?

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jul 26 2020, 04:55 AM

Mark up loan is a loophole, not illegal

Criminal case is investigated by police. As long as bank could recover debts, they don't report to police. Bank don't report to police doesn't mean it is not illegal.

Knowing culture in this country, there will be people pushed their luck too far to end in criminal case.

From the begining, I didnt say is legal or illegal.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jul 26 2020, 10:43 AM

So with this statement of yours, "They can ONLY implement rules to curb but CANNOT stop.". You have agreed that it is illegal to do so. I hope one day you get the right idea why is it illegal.

I do not have any intention to explain further too... i do not earn any leads or businesses here ...

Banks don't report to police mean they dont have proof that it is not 'illegal'

Bank Legal Advisers are not for parade ! They are being paid for their professional opinion !

Is as simple ...'Catch me lor, if you can !'

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jul 27 2020, 12:26 AM

Loan disbursement and transaction is all recorded, poof is not difficult to gather. Bank prefer to recover bad debts rather than spending resources on criminal proceedings.

It is a matter of time, bank will want borrower to proof ze has paid non financed portion of purchase before loan disbursement.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 27 2020, 12:36 AM

Criminal proceedings are not the purview of banks ! When can next of kin charged a murderer for murder !

Bank will only disbursed what is being loan. Proof of balance payment or all payments are handled by the lawyers ! Whether any actual cash movement is inmaterial as long seller 'CONFIRMED RECEIVED' through a booking receipt !

Or are you talking about a live video recording of a 'hand shake.'

There was a saying by a 'popular' forumer in lowyat forum ...

"Those who lives in coconut shell thinks that is his world !"

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jul 27 2020, 08:08 AM

In criminal trial, bank may need to send staffs to court as witness.

'confirmed received' without actual transaction is a FRAUD.

Bank staffs accomplice in marked up ?

When did lawyers ever asked for proof of deposit payment other than the booking letter ?

TBH it is very easy to understand,

If buyer and developer, then it's legal coz buyer have no chance to "pakat" with developer; the same, if buyer buying with owner or subsale, it is confirm illegal as they can "pakat" with them to have a discount or fast cash.

Cashback from developer 'legal'?
Free MOT 'legal' ?
Free lawyer fee 'legal' ?

Then why marked up in subsale cannot be cashback, free mot and legal fees ?

Suggest you to ask your lawyer 'confirmed received' without actual transaction is a fraud or not.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 27 2020, 09:17 AM

My lawyer say no wor ! That is not his business. He see documents only.

Signed means confirmed received !

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jul 27 2020, 09:20 AM

Need live video recording of cash changing hand ? Can be done also .

Infront of lawyers ? Can be done also !

Have a firmed stand in your discussion !

Why not? as long as bank admit it.

Actually there is a grey area for buyer to buy a house with affordable situation, bank can earn more interest from the loan and also developer can sell their unit more easy, it's actually a triple win situation. As long as not misuse by some party to earn cash flow or any other "bad" things.

If you are rich enough, of coz u can pay reject for the cash back, pay the MOT and lawyer fees, you even can pay the downpayment tho.

No offence.

Bank in slip should be sufficient. those wanted to mark up loan are unlikely to have cash.

Seller bank in own money and pass slip to buyer and show lawyer ? Can aah ?

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jul 27 2020, 10:29 AM

In leasing, proof of deposit paid (i.e bank in slip) is required before loan disbursement.

it is a matter of time, housing loan will follow their leasing colleagues sop.

We talk marked up. Not leasing lah. Ada lain meh ? Seller still can bank in.

Why talk future ?

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jul 27 2020, 10:54 AM

Borrowers need to marked up are mostly subprime, a reason why npl on housing loan is rising.

Dont speculate. That is not the point for discussion.

Repeat .. default by borrower is lain cerita

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Jul 27 2020, 11:28 AM

Marked up loan is fraudulent.

Is not marked up loan !

Is marked up snp price !

When talk abt mark up, so long bank valuation can meet the value. Why not.

So markup spa price is legal or illegal,?

people say is illegal because bank cannot allowed this

people say its legal because the lawyer is doing it...

so how ?

Is not about legality.

Is about whether the SnP price is acceptable to the banks.

What transpired between buyer seller is not a concern for the bank.

What about if SPA markup to RM500k but actual is RM390k?

Legal, as long approved

But you the one suffer long term paying interests.

It is a loan fraud by any name, is a criminal offence but rarely prosecuted in this country.

There is no stopping buyer mark up to any price level. Banks cannot question buyer's judgement on the property purchase price. Is a willing buyer seller negotiation.

The bank's business is to provide loan based on their own judgement as provided by a formal valuation report. If the report stated is 500k, then is 500k or any other price

Similarly, a borrower cannot question the bank's judgement on the property price.

In a marked-up transaction, buyer normally will have to bear the 'extra' cost incurred by seller, if any .... legal fees and rpgt.

In addition, for buyer, the legal fees for SnP and Loan Agreement plus mot and stamp duty are higher base on the amount as stated in the documents.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Dec 8 2021, 07:06 AM

Is it true that around 80% buyer mark-up spa for sub sale?

I wont know the %.

In any mark-up transaction, there is no guarantee the bank will provide loan based on the figure stated.