Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 Tesla shareholder discussion, Bears and Bulls are welcome

views
     
icemanfx
post Jul 15 2020, 02:25 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


BMW AG now has its own electric sports utility vehicle to take on the likes of Tesla Inc.’s Model Y and Daimler AG’s Mercedes-Benz EQC.

The Munich-based company unveiled the iX3, a variant of the mid-size X3 and its first battery-powered SUV, via an online news conference on Tuesday. The model will sell from about 68,000 euros ($77,000) in Germany.

Built in China, the car comes with an electronically-controlled top speed of 180 kilometers per hour (112 mph) and a 286-mile range. It represents the start of BMW’s most serious push into electric cars since the i3 debuted seven years ago.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/202...tesla-s-model-y
icemanfx
post Jul 15 2020, 02:31 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


Nissan Motor Co. unveiled a new electric vehicle and redesign of its “hamburger” corporate logo, seeking to make a fresh start after months of management turmoil and declining profitability.

The Ariya, an all-electric SUV with a range of as much as 610 kilometers (379 miles), is the first entirely new product to be launched under new management that took over in December. The debut of the model, which has a starting price of about 5 million yen ($46,600), is the automaker’s latest effort to refresh an aging lineup.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/202...nd=premium-asia
icemanfx
post Jul 17 2020, 01:15 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(eyerule @ Jul 16 2020, 11:58 PM)
traditional car maker's EV is far from what tesla has. they can maybe match the range but their control systems are all legacy and built on that legacy system style.

tesla has a massive lead and they are looking at ways to simplify production all the time. regret i sold my tesla shares at 800+
*
EV has fewer components, easier car to build.
icemanfx
post Jul 17 2020, 01:50 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(kelvinlym @ Jul 17 2020, 01:43 AM)
Build quality can be improved. Tech and innovation are its strengths.
*
Most Tesla tech is not exclusive, could be copied.
icemanfx
post Jul 17 2020, 09:42 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(eyerule @ Jul 17 2020, 09:05 AM)
try telling that to the old school automakers. it's like telling the old uncle what he's been doing for the last 50 years of his life can be improved
*
If you have chance to visit any of major car manufacturer would fascinate to find the extend of their r&d include ev, self-drive, etc. the reasons why legacy manufacturers didn't introduce more ev models is lack of demand and would be losing ten of thousands $ per e.v built, not a sustainable or sensible business.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 17 2020, 09:44 AM
icemanfx
post Jul 17 2020, 10:03 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(kelvinlym @ Jul 17 2020, 09:59 AM)
How so?  Do you have examples of which tech that can be easily copied?

While I'm sure not every tech is exclusive, as most companies do license and do patent sharing agreements, Tesla is the leader in automated driving data, leader in battery management, biggest investments and consumer in battery manufacturing, highest range and efficiency.  All these are valid if you believe that EVs are the future.
*
tesla battery is from panasonic and another china supplier. they may have exclusive agreement but not for unlimited time or unconditioned.

the issue with ev currently is limited range and too expensive to produce.
icemanfx
post Jul 17 2020, 10:43 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(kelvinlym @ Jul 17 2020, 10:24 AM)
Model S is 400 miles, that's 650km per charge. Supercharger network for road trips is available in all Tesla markets. Range anxiety is now moot.

Tesla is the only manufacturer to have brought down the battery price to $100/kwh. They're still working to bring it down further, plus increasing energy density and life of battery.

The $100/kwh price point has been touted to be the magical number when EV will be on par with ICE vehicles. Let's see what battery day has to offer.
*
650km range is barely or not enough from kl to penang and back in a day.

tesla has funding to subsidize loss making e.v but not legacy car manufacturers. when e.v is profitable to produce, for certain big boys will introduce more models.

another issue faced by e.v owner is decay of battery. hybrid car battery could be replaced individually but not e.v. currently, e.v battery could only replaced by manufacturer.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 17 2020, 11:00 AM
icemanfx
post Jul 17 2020, 11:10 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(kelvinlym @ Jul 17 2020, 10:57 AM)
Don't you need to stop to rest?  Aren't you gonna stop at your destination? Can't spare the 1 hour to charge?

Why is EV not profitable? Have you seen Tesla's gross and net margins? They're definitely higher than the mean of the auto industry. Why would the legacy auto with the "enormous" amounts of money not want to get that kind of margins?

Auto makers are still not serious enough. Their ICE investments still need to be written down. They put forward plenty of excuses such as no profitability, consumers want a choice, no infrastructure, range anxiety etc instead of pushing the envelope with actually solving those issues, which Tesla has been doing.  While I don't think that Tesla will take over the world, but they will definitely be the one to chase.
*
Number of cars produced and sold by telsa is way below its capacity, its profit is more of engineered and short term/quarterly.

nissan leaf e.v is available locally. true believer should buy to experience.

icemanfx
post Jul 17 2020, 11:54 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(kelvinlym @ Jul 17 2020, 11:22 AM)
Do you have numbers showing that cars produced by Tesla is below its capacity?

Tesla does not have a dealership network to "massage" the sales. They report production and deliveries every quarter and their delivery numbers are conservative as they only record it when the paperwork is done. Tesla fans also track delivery numbers via VIN numbers, China has people in the DMV to count the cars, Europe and South Korea has owners who follow the ships.

With all due respect, what made you think that Tesla has more production capacity? They're building factories left and right and they have low inventory numbers (except during Q1 and Q2 this year due to Covid).

I've driven my colleague's Nissan Leaf in 2012 and used the Smart EV occasionally in Germany as a car sharing service to know how an EV feels. Since that day, the engineer in me believed that EVs will be the future, albeit there are still technical challenges at the time.
*
user posted image

The annualized total vehicle production rate in Fremont (based on 104,891 produced in Q4) is at over 415,000 per year.

https://insideevs.com/news/395889/q4-2019-t...nment-capacity/

icemanfx
post Jul 18 2020, 10:21 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


The electric-car company raced past Toyota Motor on July 1 to become the world's most valuable automaker. Its market capitalization hit $332.9 billion on Monday -- as large as Japan's seven biggest auto manufacturers combined.

Tesla's stock chart calls to mind dot-com companies during the 1999 boom and bitcoin's meteoric climb in 2017, but its gains have some basis in reality. The transition from internal-combustion engines to electrics is a real trend, which partly explains why investors have remained steadfast as the company's valuation approaches tech-giant levels.

But expectations of high growth cannot fully account for Tesla's exponential rise. It appears that some investors have bought into the stock with the belief that someone else would buy it from them at an even higher price.

Who this "someone else" is seems clear: passive investment vehicles such as index-linked exchange-traded funds.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/Gr...a-shares-ascent
icemanfx
post Jul 22 2020, 11:05 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


One of the biggest shortcomings of competing models is range — the distance an electric car can go before needing to be recharged. The maximum for the E-tron and Taycan is about 200 miles. The I-Pace and Bolt go about 235 to 260 miles. The least expensive Tesla Model 3 has a range of 250 miles, and most of the company’s cars go 300 miles or more on a single charge.

Sam Abuelsamid, an analyst at Guidehouse Insights, said that the Audi, Jaguar and Porsche vehicles were superior to Teslas in some ways, such as look, feel and finish, but that their limited range had put off many buyers.

“The difference is too great for a lot of consumers to ignore,” he said.
...
By the end of this year, Ford Motor expects to start selling an electric S.U.V., the Mustang Mach-E, that is styled to look like the company’s famous sports car. It is promising a version of the car with a range of 300 miles or more. G.M. has said it will offer a new Bolt with longer range by the end of this year, followed by more than 20 other electric models over the next three years.

Volkswagen next year will begin selling an electric S.U.V., the ID4, which will also have a range of 300 miles. The company on Monday started taking orders in Europe for the ID3, a hatchback that will sell for about 10,000 euros less than the Model 3; the car is not expected to be sold in the United States.
....
And various start-ups are raising billions of dollars to challenge Tesla. Among the most promising is Rivian, which is backed by Amazon, Ford and other investors. The company, which is based in Michigan, plans to bring out next year a pickup truck and an S.U.V. that can go up to 400 miles.

Coming even sooner is a new company, Polestar, owned by Volvo and Volvo’s Chinese parent, Zhejiang Geely Holding. The Polestar 2 is a hatchback that is supposed to go 275 miles before needing a recharge and has the kind of agility — zero to 62 miles an hour in less than five seconds — that appeals to aficionados. It will start at $59,900 in the United States, and buyers will be able to claim a $7,500 federal tax credit and state incentives. The company will also sell the Polestar 1, a sports coupe that starts at $155,000.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/business...i-polestar.html

icemanfx
post Aug 31 2020, 05:28 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


The total amount of Korean individual investor holdings in the U.S. electric-car maker’s stock reached $3.6 billion as of Aug. 28, according to data compiled by Korea Securities Depository. That’s equal to a stake of 0.89%, which would rank the group at No. 5 on Tesla’s list of largest shareholders, according to Bloomberg data and calculations.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/202...-retail-traders
icemanfx
post Sep 6 2020, 07:30 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


“If Tesla sets up three factories where 300,000 to 500,000 cars can be produced, then we are talking about a number of units between 900,000 and 1.5 million. We want to achieve the same in 2023, probably even earlier,” Osterloh told the newspaper. VW’s modular electric-drive matrix platform gives the carmaker a “huge” advantage,” as it can build any vehicle of any brand on it, Osterloh said.

https://www.bloomberg.com
icemanfx
post Sep 6 2020, 09:39 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(kelvinlym @ Sep 6 2020, 09:07 PM)
They’re already building the 4th.

VW is the best candidate to rival Tesla so far.

The wildcard is battery supply.
*
It seems vw lithium-metal battery packed more energy than Tesla.
icemanfx
post Sep 7 2020, 08:23 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(icemanfx @ Sep 6 2020, 07:30 PM)
“If Tesla sets up three factories where 300,000 to 500,000 cars can be produced, then we are talking about a number of units between 900,000 and 1.5 million. We want to achieve the same in 2023, probably even earlier,” Osterloh told the newspaper. VW’s modular electric-drive matrix platform gives the carmaker a “huge” advantage,” as it can build any vehicle of any brand on it, Osterloh said.

https://www.bloomberg.com
*
QUOTE(kelvinlym @ Sep 7 2020, 02:26 AM)
That's still 5 years away I think.
*
icemanfx
post Sep 7 2020, 10:38 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(kelvinlym @ Sep 7 2020, 10:33 AM)
Im talking about the lithium metal being commercially viable 5 years from now.

Manufacturing cars at scale would definitely be faster for VW.
*
vw is unlikely to launch mass production ev without better battery than tesla.

This post has been edited by icemanfx: Sep 7 2020, 10:39 AM
icemanfx
post Dec 23 2020, 12:06 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(lamode @ Dec 22 2020, 11:45 AM)
user posted image
*
#ddtg rules! thumbup.gif
icemanfx
post Feb 25 2021, 01:13 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


Lucid’s pitch to investors is much better developed than those of most EV startups. It is run by Peter Rawlinson, the engineer behind Tesla’s Model S. Its first vehicle boasts better battery efficiency than peers, including Tesla, and is already in preproduction, when car makers work with suppliers to iron out fit and finish problems. Deliveries start later this year. If anyone has a shot at breaking into the EV market it is Lucid.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/nothing-lucid-...tup-11614174243
icemanfx
post Feb 25 2021, 05:00 PM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(kelvinlym @ Feb 25 2021, 02:40 AM)
Don't just believe the pitch. Always dig deeper.

Their first product is the luxury market. Look at the TAM and make your decision. That valuation puts them currently in the top 10 among automakers. Find out if they have a plan in place for sales growth in the next 5-10 years. Also find out if their technology is proprietary or not and decide if they have any technological or innovative moat.

Remember, Tesla used to also start in the luxury sedan market but they have a clear plan on going mass market.
*
Normal for new startup to start at luxury segment and move to mass market later for volume.
icemanfx
post Feb 26 2021, 04:15 AM

20k VIP Club
*********
All Stars
21,457 posts

Joined: Jul 2012


QUOTE(Hansel @ Feb 26 2021, 02:30 AM)
If you're talking abt valuation for Tesla, then I'm sure you would have read everywhere,... talking abt valuation for Tesla is NOT the right way to go abt this, at least not by using any textbook valuation. No one would buy Tesla if everybody sticks solely to this word in the traditional way as the investment thesis for #TSLA.

Tesla bought 1.5bil worth of Bitcoins,... this pushed it up among the giant companies which are participating in cryptocurrencies. And then Musk himself personally bought Dogecoins, which further reinforced this participation.

Let me share one more thing : Mastercard subsequently 'participated' after Tesla did,... AND Microstrategy participated further by buying more. I kept using the word 'participating' and 'participated',... and participation makes them 'Bitcoin companies' - in apostrophies. This particiption and trust in the value and the future of cryptocurrencies IS THE NEW VALUATION.

Since you jolted my mind, for which I thank you for,... when Tesla 'participated', they also declared they may accept payments in Bitcoins in the near future. This, I'm sure you would agree, adds to the future valuation too.
*
It seems BTC ecosystem electricity consumption is equivalent to about 10% of Japan electricity consumption, is very costly.

2 Pages  1 2 >Top
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0321sec    0.63    7 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 18th December 2025 - 08:18 PM