Thanks for sharing.

Your network design is pretty close to what I’m exploring for my use case. I intend to deploy Zigbee-based devices as much as possible since they’ve the best HomeKit support among competing wireless technologies (apart from WiFi). WiFi is easy to setup but has its own maintenance and configuration issues as you noted. Incidentally I’m also using Ubiquiti with a dedicated WiFi VLAN for the IoT devices, so that everything is isolated from the main Wi-Fi users.

There is actually a Smart Home topic under the Properties board but they are a bit newbie agnostic as most of the people who hang out there have been doing this for ages and HomeKit is not one of the recommended system (due to the lack of good options locally).

I have not heard of Terncy before this. Will need to research on them more. Hue is just too expensive for me, despite the good HomeKit track record. I’ve also tried IKEA Tradfri (with the Tradfri Hub - not sold in Malaysia). It can be made to work but System stability is an issue for many people, though I have not encountered it myself since I only have one Tradfri LED driver for testing. Assigning static IP address to the Tradfri hub is one of the essential steps for stability.

HomeKit version is also important. Either stick with iOS 12.x or else upgrade to 13.4.x and above. iOS 13.0 - 13.3 had bad incompatibilities with earlier iOS version and/or other bugs. I think the AppleTV is the best option as a HomeKit hub since it is locally available and always on.

Currently Aqara/Xiaomi is the brand I plan to use for my home renovation (unless I decide to switch to Terncy, haha). With the latest Mi Version 3 Hub (USB powered version), it is pretty stable and HomeKit automations are quite responsive. The only drawback is that you must connect to the CN server for it to recognize the various Mi-branded devices. Controlling the devices using the Mi-app has some lag due to the need to access the CN server. There is supposed to be a way to implement local LAN control but I haven’t explored this yet. My goal is actually to not use the app for normal control but to use physical devices (e.g., smart switch) and HomeKit automations, so the Mi-app response time may not be very important in the long run.

Note that I’ve only tested the Mi-HomeKit automation (created in the Home app, not in the Mi-app) using the Aqara branded Motion sensor, other sensors such as the Mi light sensor are visible in HomeKit (not sure about the latest Aqara D1 wall switch, but not all Mi-branded devices are visible in HomeKit yet), but cannot be used as triggers. Other HomeKit apps (e.g. Eve) may provide more support but I haven’t spent time developing automations yet. The Aqara motion sensor is used to trigger the Tradfri driver on/off, so HomeKit does support some level of cross-brand compatibility.

In terms of technology, my first preference is Zigbee. I’ve tried BLE (Yeelight BLE Mesh spotlights) but they’re not very responsive (2-5 sec response time) compared to Zigbee which responds within 1-2 seconds normally. However, in iOS 13.4, switching devices on/off from the Home App is now quite slow. I don’t know why that is happening (Maybe it is due to the iPhone being in a separate VLAN from my AppleTV hub which is in the IoT VLAN), though automation response time are unaffected and is still responsive.

This post has been edited by tcwan: Apr 18 2020, 08:56 AM

From my quick googling, this is what I managed to find out about Terncy Smart Switches.

Pros:
- All switches have 4 buttons (Option for up to 4-gang)
- Depending on the number of actual gang for the switch, the buttons which are not associated with a physical circuit will be used as a wireless programmable switch (for automation)
- Multiple colors, aesthetically more organic looking (this is subjective, but it looks nicer than the Aqara D1 switches, which is only available in White)

Cons:
- The only device which I find interesting from Terncy is the smart switch. I’m not really interested in the others. In that sense, Xiaomi has more devices I am interested in.
- Power loading: it is rated at 600 W (no-neutral), or else 2000 W (with neutral). I think this is supposed to be total load. This is not actually stated in their website. Aqara D1 Power loading is supposed to be 800W per gang (with neutral).

Unknown:
- I don’t think any of the current smart wall switches in the market are safe for powering fans, due to the start-up power-factor. I haven’t looked into Zigbee smart plugs (since they’re not UK standard) Or Switching modules (need special installation), so currently I’m just planning on using normal mechanical switches for fans and A/C.

I got my Tradfri hub from Japan actually, but since it’s the same item globally it really doesn’t matter where you get it from (though I guess you do need to go to an IKEA store to get it). The thing I don’t like is that their iOS app is not available from the MY store but it’ll work just fine once you download it.

Thanks for the info. You are right, the responsiveness of the system is important for a Smart Home. It is probably more responsive because it is Ethernet connected unlike the Mi hub (Ethernet also allows the use of PoE to power it with a PoE to Ethernet+USB adapter). I like the fact that they support Sign in with Apple. It shows that they’re serious about playing in the Apple ecosystem.

Ok. I really don’t know how to interpret Chinese specs, although the words used are similar but one different word means something else totally (single line vs. zero line, for example).

If it is max per-gang of 2000W, and max load of 2200W, it means that total amperage is 10A, divided among the 4 circuits. That seems to be better than the Aqara specs (800W max per gang), but all that is by reading their specsheets so I really don’t know how much to trust it.

However, the Shopee link you referred to only lists 1 or 2-gang switches. Is there any Shopee/Lazada retailer who carries the 3 or 4-gang switches?

I looked at DC fans, they’re a better choice in terms of power factor loading, but currently it’s really expensive. I guess that is why you don’t really face a problem attaching fans to the smart switches.

The ability to make a line permanently powered is a wonderful feature. Previously I was hesitant on installing smart bulbs for normal mechanical switches because people are conditioned to switch the lights off, but the ability to power the circuit off is still important for safety and maintenance (reprogramming the bulb).

Now I’m really interested to try Terncy switches out. Unfortunately it will add another hub to my collection.
A small rant about non-WiFi Smart device ecosystems is that the hub from the vendor is needed for firmware updates so even if it is not normally powered on (assuming that it can be paired to another vendor's hub) we still need to keep one around.

I am not convinced about automated curtains yet. Often some customization is needed due to the different widths of the windows or doors. Also the reliability of the IKEA model was pretty poor from what I’ve read.

This post has been edited by tcwan: Apr 19 2020, 10:26 AM

I finally received my Terncy shipment today.
I purchased the 3-gang no-Neutral switch for testing, along with the hub and a few accessories.

It seems to work fine with a normal analog fan running on high. I will have to take more time to test it.

However, the device on-boarding process is a bit confusing. In the Terncy app, I selected "Add Device (+)", then clicked the 2 buttons based on the instructions (TopLeft/BottomRight), and waited for it to appear in the list of devices.

However, it didn't do so. After several tries, I found out that it has already been added to the list of devices after cancelling the Add Device screen.

The other question I have is how to convert one of the gangs to a Wireless Switch. I can't find the setting anywhere in the Terncy app. When I select the Wall Switch, it lists the details but I cannot make any changes.

In the Apple Home App, I can program the 4th switch (which does not have any physical gang), but I cannot do anything to the other 3 switches.

This post has been edited by tcwan: May 8 2020, 07:10 PM

Sorry I'm not sure I follow the instructions. I tried pressing and holding dow the Terncy Wall Switch Top Left Button, as well as tried it for the 3rd button (Bottom Left), but it doesn't seem to do anything. The switch specific LED comes on after about 3 seconds and blink 3-4 times, but I'm not sure if that is just indicating a Long Press action or something.

The center LED remains stable on during the entire time.

I checked the Terncy iOS App Device page for the wall switch. None of the tabs can be pressed other than the Power State slider for each Switch 1, 2 and 3. I'm enclosing the screenshot for reference.




Also, the Terncy App on iOS doesn't show the screen you included in your post. Is that an Android App function?

Note: I've updated the Home Center to Firmware version 2.6.33 before onboarding the wall switch the first time.

This post has been edited by tcwan: May 8 2020, 09:45 PM

To follow up, I have been in contact with the Terncy support via the Shopee vendor support and they’ve released new versions of the iOS app and have a new server in Singapore which resolved a lot of the connectivity issues related to firmware updates. I am now fully up to date in terms of firmware versions and I can reassign the unused switch as a wireless switch.

I’m happy with the Terncy devices I’ve used so far. They are a lot easier to integrate into HomeKit compared to the Mijia devices. Aqara devices work fine in HomeKit but the onboarding process is a bit more involved.

I’ve ordered the neutral wire switches for my renovation. It is definitely better to have neutral wire switches if you can do so, they are more reliable in terms of network connections, and they will extend the range of the Zigbee network as well.

I haven’t decided if door sensors are more useful compared to motion sensors. So far I find that detecting when someone enters a room is more useful than detecting that a door has been opened. Usually room doors are left open unless there is a need for privacy.

I’ve played around with the Aqara motion sensors which work well with the Tradfri LED drivers (Both going through their respective hubs), so you can string automations for different vendor devices together in HomeKit.

I find that one of the contributing factors is how close you are from the device to the hub. Zigbee is a multihop forwarding protocol, and obviously if you need to go through some additional forwarders (line-powered device) it will take a bit longer.
If your signal is weak, it may also take longer due to retransmission of lost signals.

However, I am very happy with the Terncy system and support. They integrate fully into HomeKit so all the devices don't need to depend on the App (except for the rotary dial rotation feature which is not directly supported by HomeKit so you will need to create the automations within the Terncy Home app).

Aqara/Xiaomi works fine, but currently the number of HomeKit supported devices are still limited so it is not as smooth an experience as I'd like. E.g. the new BLE Mesh devices from Xiaomi are not visible in HomeKit, and have a much worse response time compared to Zigbee. Note: I'm using the Xiaomi v3 hub with CN server for Aqara and Xiaomi devices.

Since you're using Homebridge, I'm just wondering if you've tried joining Terncy devices to it? I tried to reset the Terncy Rotary Dial but I don't see any device join requests in Homebridge log. Not sure if I need to remove the device from the Terncy Home app first.

Reason being the rotary function of the dial is not available in HomeKit and I'd like to use it to control third party devices (not supported by Terncy Home App).

This post has been edited by tcwan: Jul 20 2020, 09:05 AM

On mine I can program the single, double and long press options.
Did you upgrade the firmware for the wall switch? That might be needed.

In any case, you can even reassign the ganged switches as programmable switches.
I did that for an unused gang.

This post has been edited by tcwan: Aug 3 2020, 07:54 AM

I've just upgraded to tvOS 14, and to avoid issues I logged off the AppleID login on Apple TV and relogged-in.

By default, Homekit setup requires pairing with an iOS 14 enabled iPhone (or other iOS device, not sure) with the same AppleID used for HomeKit account. Since my spare iPhone 6 used as a HomeKit controller has iOS 12 only, I had to log off my personal AppleID on my iOS 14 enabled iPhone 6S+ and login using my HomeKit AppleID to complete the pairing. I didn't explore manually configuring HomeKit setup on the AppleTV.

To make things seamless, it looks like HomeKit for iOS 14 really wants to standardize on the iOS/tvOS version on iOS 14. Kind of bummed that older iPhones can't be repurposed as standalone HomeKit controllers until after the setup is done, though it works fine once the HomeKit hub is setup.

Other than that, once setup, HomeKit on tvOS 14 appears to be much more responsive compared to iOS 13.x. Commands issued via the Home App were executed with much less delay.

From my brief testing, I'd say that iOS 14 is much better in all ways compared to iOS 13.x (13.7 was especially bad in terms of power drain).

This post has been edited by tcwan: Sep 18 2020, 07:38 AM

Are you referring to this?

I have not used it myself, but it is meant for devices or lights which are either plugged into a power socket, or else wired to a normal switch that you don't want to change into a smart switch.

Unfortunately I believe that it is only rated for low to moderate current devices (i.e., not for gate motors etc.) though it is not specified explicitly. You can contact Terncy directly for more info, they are usually quite responsive.

The instruction guides are here.
Apparently it can drive LED strips with an expander interface. I have not used it myself, I figured that smart switches are easier to use and configure.

I have not looked into smart curtains or smartlocks. So far the devices I've used are:

1. Smart wall switches (Terncy)
2. Aqara sensors (motion sensors, door/window, temp/humidity)
3. Mijia sensors (light, smoke detector)
4. Ikea Tradfri lighting

I have the following Hubs:
1. Terncy HomeCentre Hub
2. Mijia Multifunction (v3) hub
3. Aqara M2 Hub
4. Ikea Tradfri Hub (not available in Malaysia)

1, 2, 3, 4 are all Zigbee based. I found other technologies (WiFi, Bluetooth Low Energy) to be either slow to respond or become disconnected from time to time (Wifi devices are only 2.4 GHz, and the available channels are crowded especially in apartments).

Tradfri is not officially supported in Malaysia. I bought one from overseas when I first got into Smarthome technology but unless you have a need for Ikea LED lighting products, it is not really worthwhile since there is no official support here.


I have been using Aqara devices with the Xiaomi Mijia v3 Multifunction hub, but it gets stuck from time to time as it is on WiFi, and maybe due to the fact that I'm connected to the China server. The range seems to be insufficient to cover my entire apartment, and I kept getting device disconnections.
I don't have any Aqara-based repeaters so that may be one reason.

To solve the problem, I am running some of my Aqara devices with the new Aqara M2 hub. It is pretty responsive and I like the Aqara App for configuration and firmware updates much better than the Mijia App.

The M2 is connected via Ethernet (not available for the other Mijia or Aqara hubs). I think that is another reason why it is much more responsive and reliable compared to the Mijia v3 hub. I'm still keeping my Mijia hub around because I have the Smoke Detector and I'm too lazy to redo all the Homekit automations that I've setup.

My Terncy Hub (connected via Ethernet) has been almost 99% rock solid for me. In addition, since the Terncy switches also act as repeaters, I don't have any range problems.

I am aware of the Aqara D1 switches. I ended up not purchasing them, as they only have 3-gang.
Terncy (with neutral) switches have 4-gang versions but is more expensive, and need a deeper recess in the switch box to fit.

It is also not recommended to use Smart switches to power AC motor fans, due to the high power factor loading at startup and at high speeds (leading to high instantaneous current). However, I am using DC motor fans without any issue with my Terncy smart switches. You definitely should not use smart switches to control Water Heaters or Aircond units. These may be considerations you need to be aware of.

One final note: I only setup automations in Homekit, not in the individual apps. This allows me to link devices from different vendors together (e.g., use Aqara motion sensor to trigger a Terncy smart switch). However, with your use case, I think you might need to do it from the respective app since curtain control may not be fully exposed to HomeKit?

This post has been edited by tcwan: May 15 2021, 11:21 AM

One more thing:

Apple has recently announced support for Thread and CHIP (now called Matter) Smarthome devices.
Currently only Eve has Thread supported devices, and there are no Matter compatibility announced by any vendors since that just happened last week.

To use Thread and Matter you'll need either the new Homepod Mini, or else the upcoming AppleTV4K (I didn't check but I presume it will have Thread support).

Actually Thread and Zigbee are both based on 802.15.4 but they use different protcols so they are not interchangeable without gateways or Hubs.

Nonetheless, Zigbee is still a viable and stable platform, so unless you're willing to wait or deal with teething issues, I won't worry about it too much.

This post has been edited by tcwan: May 15 2021, 11:25 AM

In terms of cost, Aqara would probably be cheaper overall. Aqara also has security cams but I’m not interested in that so it is not an issue for me.

The new M2 hub has much better performance and the Aqara App is much more polished compared to the Mijia app.
However, I don’t have any experience with the Aqara wall smart switches, so I can’t comment on their reliability.

I think the important thing is to make sure it is the International version if you don't want to be tied to the China server.

The model number on mine is HM2-G01 (international version).

The China version will have a different model number.

I've been using Terncy Neutral (and 2 non-neutral) wall switches for about 1 year. So far everything is still working fine.
I have around 30 switches total. I'm in a condo with 3-phase wiring, if that makes any difference (probably less susceptible to lightning spikes etc).

I didn't try connecting to CN server on my M2. I also have a Mi v3 Multifunction gateway connected to CN server which is slower in response time when checking device logs, so for my Aqara M2 hub I wanted to avoid that.