Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 Hottest item in market currently

views
     
failed.hashcheck
post May 27 2020, 04:21 AM

Neighborhood plant pathologist
*******
Senior Member
2,006 posts

Joined: Aug 2009
From: Shithole Klang
QUOTE(yourinfohere @ May 26 2020, 09:35 PM)


Im not expert or professional baker. I just love baking. I bake things every few days, mostly bread. I do cakes and pastries sometimes but nowhere as often as bread.

QUOTE
-->I think you think want choice "unbleached" because without chemical, not risk of health, so now you'll cause chemical, always choice "unbleached"?

Personally I never care about health aspect of bleaching agent. The chemicals sounds menacing but I trust the food safety expert. If KKM/FDA allows it, there is very little to concern because these guys are very respected in their job.
Whats important is the final product you desire. Is it cake? or bread? and if bread do you want your bread very white?

QUOTE
-->The "bleached" or "unbleached" wheat flour, you can taste the different in between?

No difference in taste I'm aware of. It do affect texture because of that protein stuff, but not directly affect taste.

QUOTE
This is mean no matter the packaging remove the "bleached" and not wrote the word "unbleached", you look the "wheat flour" protein is 9% or low than 9%, you can guess this product of wheat flour are "bleached"?

Protein level is not directly noticeable, but with enough experience can tell if the protein in flour is less or more than expected just by looking at crumb and have few bites.
Bleaching otherwise is very easy to detect. Unbleached flour would produce bread with unmistakable yellowish tinge, its nowhere like commercial bread you find in stores. Bleached flour would produce whiter bread, almost like gardenia bread, but not as white (you need whitening agent to get that gardenia-like white).
But then again its a very serious offense to mislabel your product. No big name manufacturer in their right mind wold dare to purposely cheat ingredients or nutrient analysis. If you could catch one you can get rich suing them because u can't lose case like this.

QUOTE
-->If you choice "unbleached ap flour" or "bleached ap flour", you'll mixed "corn flour", cause you require very high taste, so may I know if ap flour + corn flour = cake flour taste? The taste mixed or not mixed big different? You like above mixed or not? Why?
-->The purpose mixed "corn flour" just for low the protein of "ap flour", then match the concept: "low protein the taste more smooth"?

Mixing AP flour and corn flour is legitimate way to create 'cake flour'. And yes, this is because corn flour is very inert and has no gluten thus reducing overall protein level in the mix.
I never tried this so Im not very sure about the taste. If Im making a cake that really choosy about flour, I would just use proper cake four.

QUOTE
-->If you know Chinese, you before heard this or not? 这蛋糕不会吃到啃喉咙?
啃喉咙 maybe mean this cake too dry? If future what I make also 啃喉咙, you know where mistake?
Sorry Im not Chinese speaker so i can't answer this sweat.gif

QUOTE
-->Many kind baking powder in market, compared low and high price, if not wrong same ingredients, all is aluminium free, so I think not need worry risk of health, also same like baking soda and yeast, all look like same ingredients, but in your opinion, you'll buy cheap or high price? The low and high price will impact the taste? or what reason of want choice which?

Im not so sure about this (the baking powder/soda). I just stick to same brand (Kings) for consistency. Whats important is buy in small packaging, and buy often. This thing degrades and wont produce consistent result if you keep it for years.
For yeast, it really doesn't matter at all. Sometimes I use Mauri Pan, sometimes I use SAF, depending on whats available in store. Its the exact same Saccharomyces cerevisiae at the end. In addition, unlike cakes, bread is very forgiving and have lot of tolerances for inconsistency.

QUOTE
-->I remember try the formula 1.8% to 2.2% to wheat flour, This is mean 500g flour add 9g salt, maybe finally I steamed it, so I recall the taste is very salty.
If you baking bread, you also follow above formula? If you use oven way the result not very salty?
-->The oven or fry method will reduce the salty taste?
Yes, Depends on bread. For rustic or any other light crust bread I use 2.2%, that is about 11g for 500g flour. For denser bread like naan, pizza crust or bagels I would use 9.8%.
If you do everything right, and the bread rise and bake properly, the salt will taste just right. Your bread will start tasting outlandishly salty if you made mistake somewhere and your bread didn't rise and turn out dense or doughy.
Oven baked bread supposedly wouldn't taste salty because the bread can rise better.

QUOTE
-->The bread want wait long time, so the timing can reduce the salty taste?

Timing can indirectly affect salty taste. If you didn't ferment your dough long enough, the yeast may not have adequate time to inflate your bread. You will ended with dense bread, a baking misshapen that produce salty bread.

QUOTE
-->If you worry high sodium, do you think make dough of bread add low salt also ok taste?
Sure but it may tastes bland. Also you may want to adjust other parameters like time or temperature, because less salt makes your yeast more active. If left unchecked your bread may tastes yeasty and smells like booze.
If you remove too much salt, your crumb wouldn't come out nice because salt strengthen gluten which in turn improves bread texture.
Also your dough will be much more stickier and harder to work with.

QUOTE
-->The yeast you use is "Saccharomyces cerevisiae"? then you use this yeast make the 面种? The 面种 normally use to baking bread only? Good taste or not, not rely what kind of yeast, also not rely dry or fresh yeast, but the important is the brand of "wheat flour"?

Yes. Saccharomyces cerevisiae is the universal bakers yeast.
Sourdough supposedly does not contain any of that commercial yeast. Its made of entirely wild yeast and bacteria. Dozens of different species of yeasts and bacteria. You just leave it for few days while feeding it often. It will develop its own unique microbes ecosystem. The taste and smell is slightly affected by place you live in and type of flour, but the final taste is definitely that recognizable sourdough taste. My sourdough smells like very fragrant apples.
Its tasty, but its very tedious to maintain. You have to feed it every day, just like a pet. Other than bread, I like to make pancakes from my daily discarded sourdough.

QUOTE
-->If you test many brand of flour, different brand have different taste?

No noticeable taste difference other than noticeable texture due to milling and protein content.
For example high hydration pizza I made using Faiza flour is noticeably more springy and gives satisfying bites compared to one made with Baker's Choice which is on more fluffy and weak side. Either way is good on its on way.
Also, this is just anecdote, but lately I feel recent batch of Baker's Choice has this peculiar 'old' smell. Im not sure what happening at their processing plant but this otherwise don't have any noticeable effect on final baked goods.

QUOTE
-->Important is do a 面种 can result a good taste? so choice the "high protein" for baking bread, because no matter what brand still approx. taste?

This one is up to personal preference. I like sourdough, but after while I get tired and just wanted to eat regular yeast bread haha. As long you can get highest protein available its fine. 9% also perfectly fine, just not the best.

QUOTE
-->Cake want use so much sugar, so when you worry diabetic, you just not eat too much, but possible reduce the sugar or use others ??? more health to replace it?

No. please don't.
Unlike bread, cake recipes are non-negiotable and holds much more authority. If recipe ask you to put 150g of castor sugar, do exactly as it say. Don't put 140g, or replace it with honey or maltose or icing sugar. If you change something in cake ingredients as is without any compensation the entire recipe will fall apart and you will ended failing in may ways.
Im not very versed in cakes, but I know that sugar for example, is very important in moisture retention. If you reduce sugar content as is without any compensation on other ingredients your cake will almost guaranteed be drier then it is supposed to be.
Yes, compared to bread, cakes is hard. You have to measure everything precisely.
For bread you can just use gut feeling for everything. About half bag of flour, and some little leftover from previous bag, about 2 teaspoon salt, about quarter teaspoon of yeast ..or maybe more because I want to get it done quick, some water until the dough 'feels right', slow proof until I have some free time to bake, then bake until its brown enough,.. just like that and you will still come up with perfect boule. If you do like this when making cakes, you will ended up with inedible mass of batter glob.

QUOTE
-->You attend the cake bread class?
-->Normally want how many years, then the cake bread can assumed ok.

I never attend any formal classes. I just do literature study from from internet, try it out, identify and record any problem, improve and adjust, and do the same thing until I master it (I personally call the whole process of repeating the same recipe over and over as "campaign" laugh.gif ). Pretty much the good ol scientific method.
Learning baking basics wouldn't take long if you have the the fundamentals.
You need deep chemistry knowledge to be good at bread making. Cakes on other hand, demands precision and discipline.
Bread dough would be happy if you beat the shit out of it and makes it wait. Cakes batter wanted to be treated like a snowflake, but swiftly without wasting any time. Keep this in mind and you'll find its lot easier to understand every aspect of baking.

QUOTE
Still not go to oven, but others try and try still unsteady. I just hope can take your real experiences then avoid waste the money and foods, maybe above for future or don't have future or not. Thank you.
just get cheap oven will do.
Rm200 30L oven is perfectly good. as long it has top and bottom heater and ventilator fan. You don't need RM10k commercial steam injection oven to learn baking (To be honest, at some point of your bread making life you will drool over these deck ovens, but for now lets just settle for something that can bake).

This post has been edited by failed.hashcheck: May 27 2020, 04:50 AM
yourinfohere
post May 31 2020, 05:34 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
189 posts

Joined: Jun 2019
Thank you for your reply.
I also don't know why still have a lot questions, if you ok, I learn from you.
If not ok, also never mind, because very long.
Thank you.

The sentences thru Internet like
不会好像我们这里的鸡蛋糕啃喉咙的哦。
松软带湿的感觉。。。

When eat cake, this cake will gnawing throat(maybe gnawing throat mean 啃喉咙(too dry), but I think not really will 啃喉咙, below cake not happen gnaw my throat till want go to hospital situation, I don't know how to explain and also don't know my below feeling is mean 啃喉咙 or not, so this gnawing throat feeling is not ok, because I think the cake you eat want feeling loose and wet then feeling well.
You push the cake is very soft, look normal, not too dry, when you eat 1 slices cake, the throat feeling ok, then you eat till 5 slices cake like that, your throat start feeling dry, you drink water, but the throat still dry, not comfortable after eat those cake.
Even some sale at market like A group some (Butter or Butter Marble Cake, Cake Bahulu(small), Layer Cake(1 pack with 1 slice have cream at center position) and old days tall pack have 5 Layer Rainbow Cake inside and stick together with white cream on top)) have above feeling, compared with B group mostly (Birthday Cake(also have cream, but filling with fruit jam), Pandan Cake, Raisin Cake and Butter or Butter Marble Cake) the feeling more ok, so you eat many the throat also feeling well.
If you compared the A group and B group, the B group price more expensive.
-->If I not wrong all cake same use the white egg and sugar why some cake will gnawing throat?
-->If you have experience bake cake, you have above gnawing throat problem or not?

-->Sourdough, thanks for your info.

wild yeast = half discard yeast to bake and half feed with water to keep
discard wild yeast = not feed, want bake only. (This is source from wild yeast - half discard yeast to bake.)

-->I see some info, but I not so understand. If use the mixed flour, like 30% rye + 70% bread flour to start feed, then after 12 days you use the 10% rye + 90% bread flour, may I know if you want continue kept this "wild yeast", you want
a)continue 10% rye + 90% bread flour?
b)continue with 100% bread flour?
c)sometime (a) or (b) also never mind?

-->If you start 100% bread flour, then after 14 days, you can
a)continue 10% rye + 90% bread flour? (The 10% rye in this stage also not impact any effect of wild yeast?, but can use?)
b)continue with 100% bread flour?
c)sometime (a) or (b) also never mind?

-->If you continue (a), then what you make always have "rye"?
-->You start with 30% rye + 70% bread flour, then 10% rye + 90% bread flour, after this you continue (b) only, possible after 1 year till up to 10 years, this "wild yeast" almost not "rye"?
-->This is mean starter is base, if you choice "rye + bread flour", no matter how many year the "rye" still here, just like virus, yeast is bacterial but base will follow forever?
-->What water you use to feed? If just pipe water with boiled, ok?
-->Finally you still want bake, so use the pipe water with unboiled will get more bacterial? This is good choice or not?
-->Before success wild yeast you want more bacterial, but after success you want less bacterial, that's why you want always store in fridge? If after success wild yeast, if the bacterial get many and growing fast will spoil or food safe problem? So before pipe water with unboiled, after this pipe water with boiled or mineral water to reduce bacterial or pollution? This concept right or not?

-->How about your sourdough? You use 100% what brand bread flour and how many days start assume success? If use the what brand ap flour bleach or bleached, how many days start assume success? Not big different?
-->Only use the mixed like above, rye + bread want 14 days?
or
-->Different quantity different, depend the starter amount only? No matter you use what, you try use 30g quantity for start but finally can able double 50g? If you want double 100g, then you use 60g quantity for start? also want double 500g, use 150g for start?
-->High or low gram amount for start, what brand and what mixed also can success in 14 days?

-->Normally Day 1 - 7 starter, also want discard, but this discard you not collect, that mean you not eat or bake this discard?
-->Then till day 8 you start collect the discard to eat or bake? Why Day 1 - 7 not collect, the smell like spoil, so can't eat or bake? or will happen food poison?

-->When till day 8 you collect the discard, this discard also is call "discard wild yeast", so if you discard 30g, then this 30g "discard wild yeast" equal how many gram of "Saccharomyces cerevisiae"?
-->If this "wild yeast" 10 year old you can use less gram to rise the bread? More ageing can reduce the gram to use but get the same rise power?
-->If 500g any flour want 5g "Saccharomyces cerevisiae yeast" so the "discard wild yeast" want how many gram?
-->"(Day 8) discard wild yeast" same like "(Day 9 or till day 14) discard wild yeast"? I can assume the "(Day 8) discard wild yeast" the yeast power still very weak, but day after day the "discard wild yeast" will self enhance the yeast power? So more later "wild yeast" or "discard wild yeast" more powerful even you just store in fridge feed or not feed?

-->The "(Day 8) discard wild yeast" with the same day, you can start use "flour + Day 8 discard wild yeast" = bake? Same day discard same day bake?
-->Normally "wild yeast" starter want feed 7 days + 7 days, totally 14 days. In the same time, you able collect "Phases 2 - (totally 7 days altogether) discard wild yeast" to store at fridge. This 7 days starter you not collect(truly discard) and after this "Phases 2 - (totally 7 days altogether) discard wild yeast - this still under not success status of "wild yeast" with never open, touch or any. Everyday collect above mixed and store at fridge in one bowl till end days bake it, this will happen food poison or not? This "Phases 2" can store at fridge max how long finally still safe eat or bake?

-->After 14 days, if success, you think this "wild yeast" can forever follow the formula, discard -> feed -> fridge also not happen food poison?
-->After 14 days, the temperature of "wild yeast" or "discard wild yeast" you want always maintain what degree celsius? If one day not electric supply or fridge damage suddenly, do you think not safe to eat this "wild yeast" or "discard wild yeast" anymore?
-->After 14 days, "wild yeast" or "discard wild yeast" stay in room temperature can how many hour assume is safe to eat or bake? You rely smell to determine safe to eat or not?

Below right or not?
-->After 14 days(mean success days), feed the "wild yeast" is double the flour with yeast only, if "wild yeast" not feed till max 4 weeks also not spoil, this is also mean "discard wild yeast" also not spoil till max 4 weeks? They all stay at fridge, their active live life or expiry date or spoil date or condition is same? Just like if before 4 weeks you not feed the "wild yeast", then you want start again. You can one time use all the "wild yeast", because all the "wild yeast" is "discard wild yeast" too after 14 days(mean success days).
This is not same like "Phases 2" only can wait and store at fridge till success days, that mean only 7 days.

-->The "wild yeast" and "discard wild yeast" all container and spoon, you do a sterile or not? How you sterile glass container and stainless steel spoon?

Finished bread situation.
-->Some bread at market, when you cut inside, some many hole(even big hole), some little hole, why like that? How to control the hole?
-->Some bread at market, after 1 day, the bread start hard, day after day more hard till you want steam, but some after 7 days still very soft, even the skin when you push also very soft, why like that?
-->Some flour at market, I never use, but I think like "self rise flour", maybe the result more soft, you think this is because use the "bread Softener"? This kind ingredient, you use or not? "Bread Softener" will change the taste or not? Good or not use this kind ingredient?
-->Some bread at market, sometime you eat, the taste or smell like shampoo, but sometime you taste feeling this is normal without shampoo, why like that?
-->Homemade also can add preservative? This purpose only for extend the expiry day? The bread or cake add or not add preservative, you can taste it? This is mean preservative will change the taste or not? Good or not use this kind ingredient?
--->Some bread at market add the preservative, but before expiry ready get mold, if the manufacturer use same formula , same ingredients, also same quantity preservative, the place also like before. Same batch, but some mold later, some mold early, why like that? and why preservative unable prevent the mold?

Flour white with bleach.
-->Some flour at market, I never use, but I think like "self rise flour", if you use this, the result will look white, this is maybe bleached flour.
-->I also use the bleached flour, when make a dough look like yellow, after this below situation.
bleached flour + yeast and steam food, but the result look "yellow", this is because the "yeast" will yellow the skin? If I not wrong, inside more white than outside.
Other situation I use the same bleached flour without yeast and soup food, the outside and inside same color, not so white not so yellow. Why when I steam will look like "yellow"?
If same brand, but compare with "self rise flour" vs "bleached flour", I guess the bleached level of "self rise flour" more high, so the "self rise flour" can get white result?
But why if sale at restaurants, they food skin look like white, I think restaurants also use same brand "bleached flour" like small customer, how can the restaurants food skin so white?
No matter I want this food look white also unable, I ready use the "bleached flour", but this white not enough, how I can turn the yellow to white color? You heard the "bleach powder"? If not, can add what?

-->What brand oven you use? What brand dough, cake mixer you use? Also can write you place your dough at what surface, use what tool rolling your dough?
-->I worry the place and rolling pin made of wood, specially I don't know what kind of wood, if like sawdust tear out, when rolling maybe stick together at the dough, just like you'll eat the wood?
-->I see only, but don't know how the oven working. I guess you want wait the timer run finish then the oven will stop, but if you wrong set timer, how you can stop the oven?

Thank you and sorry. I also feeling ??? of a lot questions and others.
You really ready patient of my before questions, this is maybe making dough power. Patient make dough, dough make patient.

Forgot some questions.
-->If use the 500g + 9g salt, your bread fine make maybe can get 800g weight bread, taste not very salty, but you know 9g salt ready thru fermentation and others still maintain 9g sodium or will high sodium? Normally, if hypertension, 500g of market bread is 20 slices, you can eat 1 slice square bread only, but if homemade the 500g + 9g salt you can eat more? I think 800g, you can eat 400g(at least 10 slices), this is mean sodium not calculation like above? or bread in market add more sodium?
-->The cake if you add 80g sugar, this is mean if you eat whole cake, you can get 80g sugar in your body? This kind calculation right or not?
Thank you.

QUOTE(failed.hashcheck @ May 27 2020, 04:21 AM)


This post has been edited by yourinfohere: May 31 2020, 08:29 PM
geolee76
post May 31 2020, 10:03 PM

On my way
****
Senior Member
533 posts

Joined: Apr 2016
Canned food.. roasted non-halal meat......

not luncheon meat..

this is the one i have been searching since 3 months ago till now,, cannot find.. LOL

 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0129sec    0.33    5 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 29th March 2024 - 01:47 AM