Anyone follow dividend magic facebook or instagram?

Mine sharing how he calculate his quarterly dividend yield or gross investment etc?

I tried to calculate but does not get the number he got.

**New to stock market

why call it magic when it's just maths and finance....?

not on Facebook. If you take some screenshots and post it here, maybe we can help you.

this is what he call himself
can i will take a screenshots

So i use the share price on the date entitle for dividend to calculate the market value and dividend yield but i don't get the numbers he get

Your calculation was right for that ONE dividend. However SunR paid out 4 sets of dividend for the year 2019. You need to add all 4 then divide by your cost if investment.

Don't trust what you read esp that website.

A wrong, high dividend yield can still lose money for the investor if that stock profits keep falling. If No profits or declining profits, how can the said stick continue paying the same dividend.

A declining dividend per year could also cause the investor to lose money.

Dividend is like the chicken and the egg. The egg cannot be valued more than chicken cos no chicken, means no egg. Hence, dividends MUST always be treated as a bonus and not the ultimate gold. Buy the stock because the company is gonna make more money makes more sense than chasing the dividend.

Dividend investing has just as much risk as a normal stock.

Dividend is not magic! Do not be fooled!

This post has been edited by Boon3: Apr 8 2020, 09:16 AM

I agree, a good example is AirAsia. Good dividend but was stripped naked by Tony and gang for years, even before coronavirus. RM10-12 billion debt, sold off most of their airplanes and take profit and give out as dividend. Madness

So could i understand it as
example
Public bank is better than Maybank?although public bank giving lower dividend than maybank but their stock growth are much higher than the maybank?

any tips on what should we focus when we buy stock? value investing? to check on the potential future growth? longterm investing?

**So many people sharing actually getting dividend for long term investing are better than short term

And Now make PRs news that they must be bailed out !!

Dividend is worth when there is MOAT. solid MOAT.

That kind is very rare.

Most people who got the stocks way earlier when all are running naked. And they know realistic expectation. Not dividend expectation.

Did you understand what happened in your SunR example?

One of common mistake is to buy a stock JUST because it has a yield of say 7%. I am sure you heard such statements in reports, papers, forums etc etc...

1. First thing, you need to look the dividend paid out history for the past 5 years (at least). A brief look see and you will be able to tell if the dividends paid out is increasing or not. Got to be honest here with yourself. If the numbers are increasing, it is increasing. If it is ding dong up or down, - it simply means erratic. Yes, call the cat White if it is white.

2. When was the last dividend paid? Take your SunR example. The current div per year (dps) is 9. 59 sen. Yield is over 6% based on current price. Now this stat is correct but it has one big assumption, which is you received the full 4 set of dividends paid for 2019. Now if you invest in Aug 2019, you've missed the first 2 dividends. Hence the yield would be different? Get what I am saying here.

3. After a stock gives out dividend, the stock price is readjusted to reflect the dividend paid. Do not forget this simple issue....

Anyway I am merely highlighting the risk if one focus solely on dividends.

So a simple question. Can a dividend paying stock of over 6% causes an investor to lose money in a 5 year span?

Actually, it is much more than what you can see on the papers. You don't know what's in his mind, you don't know what is his intention and what plans he has for the company, afterall, by paying huge diviends, who benefits the most?

When the valuation is undervalued or deemed to be undervalued, what do you do as the owner? Sorry, can't divulge much, i don't wanna go to the jail.

So sometimes it is essential to put on the controlling shareholder thinking cap (despite we won't have the capability in one way or another, especially financially). Think like a business owner, follow their footsteps to play this kind of game and potentially can make money. Don't think like a typical MI.

Thank you for the details explanation i get what you mean but i have a few curios question.

Let's say i don't focus on dividend too much but on the value of the stock let's say the stock price is rm 1 this year, 3 years later rm 7, but on the 4th years due to some circumstances is drop back to rm 4. (Let's say yearly DY 3.5%)

for this example if i want to sell on the 4th year actually my investment stock price have just increase by rm3?

Thank you for all the Sifu Sifu here that share their opinion.

So i guess for fresh grad or someone new to stock market should invest more in future stocks?
Ex: AI company, industrial 4.0, Fintech, Data mining etc ??

Or actually focus on blue chip stock like glove company? banks? REIT?

there`s always a stock. Be it Dividend Aristocrat; Dividend Growth and so on~

Invest what you believe will have future. you dont want another bear stearns OLD blue chip; got tore apart last GFC

If you want to invest in increasing dividend yield that increase year after year, then go for KLCC, not SunR or others

Well yes.

Your profit = Cost of sale of share - cost of purchase.

So a simple question. Can a dividend paying stock of over 6% causes an investor to lose money in a 5 year span?

This one...

Sometimes talk is cheap! LOL! It's harsh talk but that's the fact of life. Instead of talking so much, this was a realtime example done last year on a high yielding REIT stock, AMfirst, which was paying a yield of more than 6% during that time of writing in 2019.

post #4619

So if one bought in 2012, at a price of 1.05 the so called dividend collected was 37.1 sen. Good dividend yield rightr

However, unfortunately price for Amfirst reit in Sep 2019 was only 51 sen! Basically one got an insane dividend yield but with the cost of Amfirst plunging to a mere 51 sen, this investment is yielding losses for a holding period of 7 years!!!!

And Amfirst today is trading at only 42 sen !!!

A clear cut example that shows that there exist stocks where can lose money despite getting great dividends. Now if this is the case, how could one mislead others by declaring that dividends is magic?

Gotta find out how they were getting the cash to pay the dividends.

Not sure about AMfirst.

BUT if you bought Panamy in 2010 at Rm12.50

you would have received total dividends of Rm10.44 to 2016 and sold at Rm40 per share.

0r if you held to date , total dividends is RM16.35 with present price of Rm27

Not all dividend stocks are bad provided they are not out to scam you!

Well I did not state that all is bad either.

Look, many of us are aware of this dividend magic or dividend warrior nonsense. Spam everywhere with his meaningless gloating. If it's magic, why are they so many bad apples examples, such as Amfirst reit (do suggest you read about Amfirst reit. With declining dps, the stock has but only one way but down) exist?

If such bad examples exist, then the term dividend magic certainly ain't applicable!

That is why it is called magic, to trick you.
Like AirAsia and AmReit's dividend

If DPS>EPS, this means dividend is unsustainable and they are paying out from reserves. Share price will eventually fall. Avoid at all costs

AirAsia dividends were different. They were special dividend which raised from their disposal of planes which came about during its sale and leaseback. Such dividends were clearly not sustainable.

Exactly, that is why buying AA stock for their dividend is not a good advice.
It is like selling our property and then lease it back to sublet it.
Eventually, we'll run out of property to sell.

Thank you for this great example so by all means eveytime i need to calculate total returns to clearly know how much have i earn by investing in a certain stock

Let's say if today Tony Fernandes is not the biggest shareholders i guess the share still got chance to rebound since he will not be the biggest winner??
furthermore, currently AA focus on logistics and bigpay this will change their company profit profile right?

I did not buy AA stock just a thought of mind

Does dividend investing reap the benefit during crisis?

Errr yes & no.

The ability for a stock to pay consistent dividends is to have strong free cash flow.

Sometime the EPS can hit by high depreciation, but the cash flow still remain strong, hence they are still able to pay dividend even they have this DPS > EPS situation.

P&L can be financially engineered, but cash flow statement is hard to fake.

No. You cannot pay out dividends if you have no profit.
Dividends can only be paid out if the company is making losses by paying from their distributable reserves.

Profits increase distributable reserves not EBITDA.

If a company has EBITDA of RM100k but net profit of RM0, it still cannot pay a dividend (again unless they pay from the distributable reserve).

Hence, EPS is more important before cash flows. Even if you have "good" cash flow but unprofitable (this alone is highly unlikely because unprofitable companies tend to have bad cash flows), the company by law is not allowed to pay dividends except from retained earnings.

If you don't believe me, you can see for yourself the share price of companies that pay out DPS>EPS.

Yes. You can still pay out dividends if a company have no profit. It has been done by many companies. Companies have even raised funds and distributed the funds as dividends too.

Basically the way he presents it is:

Gross investment: Cost of him purchasing the shares (inclusive of brokerage, stamp fee, clearance fee, etc charges I assume)
Market value: Number of shares x latest price
Dividend yield: Total dividend received for calendar year/Gross investment

I found 1 company that pays out DPS > EPS. But the share price is still quite high.



I'm not a finance graduates, I just know for a company to be able to pay sustainable dividend, you need strong free cash flow.

Cash flow statement stated the actual inflow / outflow of business activities. Profit number alone is not representing the actual cash that you have got at the end of the quarter.

Hence you can see there will be some adjustment for depreciation, amortisation,impairment of goodwill, changes in fair values of properties etc.

Profit on the other hand, is a product of accounting rules. And accounting profit is based on accrual concept, and not cash concept. I think this you are more well-versed than me.

Look at a few companies before arriving to conclusion.
HEIM's EPS>DPS. DPS is usually calculated last year while EPS is calculated this year.



From your screenshot, the DPS in my picture is summation of 54 sens and 40 sens.
Hence, HEIM's EPS>DPS.

The moment a stocks EPS falls below last year's DPS, shareholders know that the company will likely cut dividends.
This is why share price falls.

Well if you insist, i rest my case.

Good luck and stay safe.

Chasing dividends is only good if you pick the right stocks.

AA is not a dividend stocks imo. Never buy a stocks that have fluctuations in dividends rate throughout the years.

This post has been edited by ywliang96: Apr 13 2020, 10:57 AM

i thot dicidend from profit is a law requirement while cash flow is a mgt consideration n decision?

I tend to disagree part of this point

If a company has set a dividend policy, i don't find it why the dividends will not fluctuate

look at oriental and genting

they can pay out huge dividend even they are making loss

their cash in bank are sufficient to even easily declare 50% of their share price as dividend and that will not even hurt their operating expenses

It's paid out of Retained Earnings from past profits. Nothing new.
Obviously they cannot declare 50% of share price as dividend because they have expenses to pay.
They can't simply close shop overnight. Even firing people and liquidating assets costs money.

There is 1 legit company listed in Malaysia that is currently trading below cash value.
With that logic of yours, this will be a better buy than Genting.

Dividend policy is just a guide. Doesn't mean the management have to stick to it.
Dividend policy is meant for institutional investors or substantial shareholders who rely on dividends to finance their day-to-day activities.

Extract from BPLANT's 2017 financial statement:

Look at share price and dividends today.

I think I didnt explain clearly, but I took AA as an example. 2019 they gave out a 0.9 cents special dividends to investors. What I mean't is newbies shouldn't invest into something like this to chase the 0.9 cents gains.

i think you should not set bplant as an example, this company is mismanaged from top to bottom all the way, including its major shareholder too.
its major shareholder can even distribute dividends when it has accumulated losses in its books. what do you expect from such organisation and subsidiaries which they have major controlling stake?

i am sure there are plenty of other company who pay consistent dividends.

investor should only look at normalised income/profit.

even SC will disregard your extraordinary income in the event of evaluating any proposal.

these are non-recurrent events, it's certainly not a benchmark/precedent.

I was talking about 2016-2018 period.
Bplant sold some land for a big profit. So they issued a one off special dividend.
The losses only came later.

You're misreading the accounts.
Bplant still has RM1b of retained earnings. Of course, they can still give dividend (with a cut).

Tbh, I don't think msia suitable for dividend investing

Have not done extensive research, so afaik there's basically no listed company in msia that have consistent dividend growth rate
Please share if there's is.

I have discuss with many finance friends they said malaysia more suitable for dividend investment because the growth are affected by US stock market so the growth are not independent.

But stock giving consistent dividend growth rate is really not many company

ohhh okok.

but you misunderstand my 2nd part. what i mean is their shareholder. LTAT.

may i know which company/stock they recommend?
afaik, there's no company listed in malaysia that does not have consistency/steady dividend pay

not many means you found company that have consistent dividend growth rate? mind sharing?

Bplant was allowed to give special dividend because the cash from the land sale is better given back to shareholders.

LTAT doesn't need money badly during that time. In fact LTAT is one of the best performing funds, even better than EPF.

Too bad most of their investments all tanked.

but if you also realise, LTAT managed companies are all in bad shape, it simply shows mismanagement from top to toe at all levels within the boustead group.

LTAT is a fund manager. They don't directly manage companies but decides the directors who run the company.
Boustead has always been terribly managed. Probably hire directors based on race not merit.

The example i quoted is based on their cash in banks (after minus borrowing) and not from retained earnings. i think we shouldn't look at retained earnings as it will serve as a misleading guide.

And when we find company to invest, we need to look at their past - current performance and tally with their dividend policy for planning, and not to look at constant dividend history Alone.

Like Bplant that you mentioned, they are giving dividend while making loss? just to make us shareholder happy? No. should have stop giving and focus on financial restructuring.

No dividend? sell? Hold? That's depends on whether you are a trader or investor.

yes. correct

I'll usually set my investment criteria as follow:-

1. Must have growth from past 3 years (looking and Qtr-Qtr and Y on Y), If it's not, have to check it's justification in it's financial statement
2. Preferable to have dividend policy or constant dividend payout based on it's profit
3. Must be in relevant and sustainable industry

It took me many painful years for me to learn this simple rule

Don't go waste it

This post has been edited by squarepilot: Apr 15 2020, 01:32 PM

If you have cash in bank but no retained earnings, you can't pay a dividend by law.

Err did you even read the reason why I quoted BPLANT?
I used BPLANT to refute dividend policies.

I just wanted to point out that a company can still pay dividends even if the current year is making a loss if it has retained earnings.

Ok. my mistake for overlook at BPLANT

First and foremost, if a company don't have retain earning, it probably don't have cash too. i'm not saying that retain earning is not important, i'm saying that there are more numbers and figures to look into besides retain earnings and NTA

look at all these solid account books, those are so called huge retain earning, but are they sustainable? one is not, another is doing just fine and another are great. and again, i'm nit talking about overall, i'm just focusing on the importance of having cash in account rather than importance of retain earning when comes into consideration of paying dividend

The ok one


the steady one


the shittiest one




This post has been edited by squarepilot: Apr 15 2020, 03:01 PM


Attached thumbnail(s)

This is partly true for loss making companies which are making losses for over a period of time.

There are companies with plenty of cash but little retained earnings. Can you think of one?

Answer:

In simple fact, on accounting basis.

There are 2 criteria needs to be satisfied in order to give dividend.

1. There is retained profit
2. Cash.

Whenever there is dividend given out, on the balance sheet, it will reduce the retained profit.
While if the company is giving out dividend less than profit this year, then you will not see reduce retained profit.
While if the company is giving out more dividend than profit this year, then you will see the reduce retained profit.

Balance sheet is simple,
It consist of Share capital + retained profit (sometimes perpetual securities, we omit this first to make it simple for other to understand) = Total equity of the company.

If company is giving out more cash dividend than its profit, it reduces the retained profit. In the balance sheet, the reduce cash in hand is matched by reduce in retained earning, we call it balance sheet has its reason.

Once it gives it out all retained profit, it no longer can give anymore. If really want to give further, then it needs to be in formed of capital.
Set aside the cash issue, so the max how much company can give dividend for a particular financial year is depended how much current profit + retained profit.

Retained profit is not necessary come from operation, it can be via revaluation of asset as well.

Loss making company can still give dividend mainly because it still has retained profit in their balance sheet.
But once loss eat into the retained profit in the future which resulted retained profit become negative, then the company has no ability to give dividend anymore.
It really want to give further, then only way is via capital, which is more much complicated process.

There is accounting standard needs to be followed, not simply have cash, then already can distribute simply.
While for IPO cash money raised, company needs to follow strictly SC rules, normally in the prospectus, there is mentioned where the IPO money will be used for, company cannot simply divert to give dividend or other thing else without SC approval.

Guys I got one noob question.
Why ar.. Everytime declare deviden.. After the ex date the dividend amount will be deducted from share price?

Example ar.. Share AAA price at RM1. dividend RM0.02. After ex date the share price become 0.98. Altho u get dividend bank in to ur account but your share drop 0.02 cent. What's the point la like that? Anyone can give Pencerahan or not?

Got new https://dividends.my. macam ok. everyone using?

does not work

The way I look at dividend investing is simple. It has definitely made me a calmer investor during this pandemic crisis than I was before I stumbled upon Dividend Magic blog. It does give me the comfort that:

1. I am still receiving above average yield from my portfolio even when the prices fell.

2. While waiting for the market to recover, I was able to average down some of my stocks with the dividends received during the crisis.

3. I improved my stock selection techniques a lot.

So now all I have to do is wait out this storm and then see my stocks recover back to their pre-covid levels, and then continue to receive dividends while I sleep.

does not work? i can load the website.

Why dividens magix venture into etoro and cfd

Haiz

Quick money mah...

probably he is paid for the advertisement as well

etoro provides high commision for referral. I found the platform not so stable. Long term wont go there.

Please read how dividends work.

A dividend is not free money. The money has to come from somewhere. If dividend works the way you thought it did, everyone can become super rich by borrowing RM1 million to buy all the shares they can right before ex-date, then pocket the free dividend money, sell back all the stocks to return the money borrowed.

Also I would not recommend people to treat dividend magic like gospel. Understand that it really matters when you buy into a stock and don't just blindly follow the guy's portfolio. It's definitely not worth buying some of the stocks he's holding anymore, the ship has sailed a long time ago. Like Nestle. The guy bought Nestle stocks when it was at RM66.88.

Rule #1 - Do NOT buy a stock just for its dividends, unless the stock has proven track record of its management abilities and a track record of maintaining a sustainable growth in profit. Buying stocks just before ex-date is beyond stupid like you said. Dividend Magic also does not condone that kind of practice.

Rule #2 - I agree with you. Do NOT blindly follow someone else's portfolio when you don't even understand the how the company works. Nestle is definitely NOT a buy anymore, it is a hold at best, or he could've sold it off for a neat profit if he chooses to as his profit already flipped. So everyone else is quite late to the party now. Note: Remember that everyone was lamenting that the price of Nestle was too high when it was around RM60, and that they missed the boat. It just depends on one's perspectives.

Rule #3 - To borrow a line from WB, do NOT forget rule #1 and rule #2.

I admire people actually invest in those penny stocks with no proven track record... Those are heroes with brave souls....

always ask yourself why the company kept paying dividend if they could use cash for business expansion?

I hope you don't think "finance background = great investors."

there are many finance graduates every year, but I'm not sure if 50% of them are good / great investors.

Major shareholders need the money?

Financial bloggers such as dividendmagic generally make money from sponsored posts and affiliate links. Financial bloggers are generally marketers of financial products. They might give you some basic advice here and there but that's about it.

The recent Etoro endorsement was just a way for the writer to gain more commissions. Etoro is not regulated in Malaysia. If suddenly Bank Negara blocks fund transfers from Malaysian accounts to Etoro, investors will be massively screwed. The same thing happened with Luno for bitcoin in Malaysia previously. Etoro is also providing CFD (option on the stock) vs normal share purchase. Big big difference.

Nowadays financial bloggers also showcase their entire portfolio. They do this so that more readers will purchase the same stocks as them and prop up their portfolio values.

The universal rule here still applies- "those who can't do, teach". If you read the blog post on 16 March 2020, it was mentioned that "my return right now is at a measly 0.91%. Since inception." If you look back at the posting dates of the freedom fund, the first post is December 2015. If you had put your money in a risk-free FD account for the past 4 years, you would have outperform this portfolio without the need to do any single research.

On a separate note, if you're into stocks, dividend yield is just a distraction for me personally. A company with high yield is not necessarily a good buy. A company can take on debt to pay dividends even if it's making losses. Share price will always move upwards in the long term if and only if revenue and net profit grows.

In the short term, glove counters such as Top Glove are trading way ahead of their fundamentals due to FOMO and pure speculation. So do expect a sudden drop in share price of these counters when a vaccine is found.

This post has been edited by johnsonlim777: May 23 2020, 05:22 PM

Why divide magic is not responding to this post?

Additional note:

Don't ever trust financial gurus who claim they found a method to always win at trades and are trying to sell you their course, but never once do they show you their portfolio.

Even those who show you their portfolio can be suspect because of reasons above.

Easiest and safest way to make dividend is to just put money into buying blue chips like public bank, maybank, tenaga.

Dividend Magic hope he will respond

So which broker is regulated in SC that's offering zero commission for international stocks?

And what about eToro FCA/ASIC regulation vs SC?
If regulated in SC, what are the available remedies to compensate investors in case broker defaults?

If licensed in Malaysia you can make clams in Malaysia. At very least, you are protected for RM100k under the Capital Markets Compensation Fund.

There's still so many alternative payment methods like Paypal, Neteller, Skrill and so on that would bypass any such restrictions. eToro is one of the easiest to fund and withdraw from, it's no wonder that so many Malaysians use it. Personally I only follow DM to see what he's up to and see if I can get any useful information from it. I don't follow any of his suggestions for the most part because the window has long closed.

None of the foreign brokers are licensed in Malaysia. In the end it doesn't matter. If you want to make money, you have to grow some balls. If you need tongkat for every investment you make, might as well dump all your spare cash into EPF and just wait for retirement.

yeah that's fcked up. why do they do that rather than investing back to their core biz?

You know what's an influencer?

Even rakuten trade keep promoting him. LOL.

I personally use eToro for two reasons:

1. Instant funding with BigPay card at favourable exchange rate. I can fund my account in 2 mins max.
2. Regulated in FCA and ASIC, two of the well-known regulators. I personally have my account under FCA.

what are u collecting over there? I wonder if u have any dividen stocks there and how does the dividen paid? Any extra charges?

Aside from that, i just realise that ETF is consider as CFD sadly but good thing can buy individual stock there.

Hi, wow. this turned into a bash and thrash post real quick.

Let me first respond to this.
To clarify, the 0.91% return I'm talking about is just my capital gain. Does not include dividends. I apologise if this caused some confusion.
The sharp drop was due to covid crisis that spark general panic sell, margin call and also bad investment sentiment. As a long term investor, I don't believe in following the flow and selling off majority / all of my stake in the stock market. I believe anyone who hold long term position will incur losses in this period of time too.

With that clarification, FD did not outperform my portfolio at all.

Now that the general investment sentiment is better.. My portfolio is back up and running. Q2's update should be significantly higher.
I don't mean to single you out but how did your portfolio do during the covid crisis? @johnsonlim777

Also, I've never ever given financial advise to anyone or told anyone to invest in the stocks i invest in. In fact, I always make it a point to remind readers to DO YOUR OWN DUE DILIGENCE when investing in any stocks.

The main reason I posted up my portfolio is to keep myself accountable. If I lose money, I post it, if I make money, I post it.

Regarding affiliation with other companies, I actually use these guys for my own investments.

Lol I can't believe I kena bash by being honest about my portfolio and investing.
I call myself dividend magic also wrong.

I've never said dividend investing is for everyone and I've never said it's magic.. Investing - be it in stocks or other assets is the best way for Malaysians to achieve some form of financial freedom. It so happens that I found my investment to be in stocks, and my style to be in dividends. If you have your own, that is perfectly fine. I don't call you out in the middle of a financial crisis and use your own name against you.

Also, I guess I should answer this.

I think this is my first dividend from SunREIT. And they pay out 4x a year.
So the yield you are seeing is:

RM306.82 / RM19,839.68 = 1.55%

When SunREIT pays out again in June, it'll be:

(RM306.82 + Dividend No.2) / RM19,839.68 = 3.xx%

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4964732
https://www.etoro.com/customer-service/help...-pay-dividends/

Skimmed through your portfolio once, not a bad one actually, with IIRC, concentrations on MBB, TNB, REITS (Sunway?) n other steady-as-she goes companies.

Just relax from the bashing here, i doubt many readers here have your kind of portfolio with investment amount of close to half a mil??

All the best n enjoy ur dividends!

keep hustlin cuz, there is always two sides for everything, apple vs android, pay cash vs credit card

im also a believer of dividends and it has rewarded me very well in the last 4-5 years (mbb, reits etc.) but i also balance them with other stocks with capital gain in mind

basically theres no right way or one way of doing things as long as you know what ur end goal is