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> Karma is untrue or useless, A serious discussion

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BrookLes
post May 28 2022, 09:14 PM

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QUOTE(littlestar777 @ May 28 2022, 04:19 PM)
hmm.gif how sure are you that i follow your thread? Don't think so much.

If so what is the big deal. How did my post ter-kacau u?

If yes, my apologized. Buddhism taught how to apologise too in few thousands words in a single Sutta. That's why i said i don't know much as above.
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You said dun think so much and then you make the following statement what is the big deal.

You are really a very confused person and your beliefs is a major cause of that.

Of course no issues with you "following" me. Just an observation on my part. Let's say I am not as blur and as "woke" as you. I can sense with accuracy ppl intention just by their actions

I really sense lots of insecurities in you. But I am not the only one.

Just curious. I thought lying gives bad Karna.

In the same post, you indicated that you did not follow me but then after that indicate that you follow me at the same time.

So this adds to your bad Karna?

This post has been edited by BrookLes: May 28 2022, 09:19 PM
Spear2
post May 29 2022, 01:00 PM

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QUOTE(Accord2018 @ May 26 2022, 09:16 PM)
yea, once they become millionaire/billionaire and in power, then they lupa diri no more do good and some be even eviler like bijan. Now you try find them and say you need help you see they layan you or not. because they have already forgotten the past and how good they were last time in order to achieve this status. Good karma must continuously accumulate. They exploit people they will suffer back one day. Like the spur suspect thought he can hide behind the internet but karma is always watching him. You can forget karma, but karma will never forget whatever evil slanders you did in the past. Amitabha.
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See it's arbitrary, anyone can cook up better story/explanation than this ...
BrookLes
post May 29 2022, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ May 29 2022, 01:00 PM)
See it's arbitrary, anyone can cook up better story/explanation than this ...
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Actually I wonder if he even believes what he is writing.

I mean if what he said is even remotely true.

Then we will not even need law in the first place since karma will take the place of law.

But it's ok. By his definition, if he murders someone, it's good karma after all.

Or does anything his teacher wants him to do

This post has been edited by BrookLes: May 29 2022, 03:21 PM
Spear2
post May 30 2022, 08:11 AM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ May 29 2022, 03:18 PM)
Actually I wonder if he even believes what he is writing.

I mean if what he said is even remotely true.

Then we will not even need law in the first place since karma will take the place of law.

But it's ok. By his definition, if he murders someone, it's good karma after all.

Or does anything his teacher wants him to do
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The other problem with this idea of karma is, whatever you did in your past lives, you have forgotten all of it except a few according to the belief who have the ability to recall. You basically start anew. Or we can turn this problem to the issue of determinism, what you are today is determined by what you did in the infinite past ...
BrookLes
post May 30 2022, 10:56 AM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ May 30 2022, 08:11 AM)
The other problem with this idea of karma is, whatever you did in your past lives, you have forgotten all of it except a few according to the belief who have the ability to recall. You basically start anew. Or we can turn this problem to the issue of determinism, what you are today is determined by what you did in the infinite past ...
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That is what I have always been hinting

That the previous you who is evil is not even affected since it's the present you that is affected.

So the previous you still gets away with it.

But then it's really amazing.
Spear2
post May 30 2022, 11:07 AM

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QUOTE(BrookLes @ May 30 2022, 10:56 AM)
That is what I have always been hinting

That the previous you who is evil is not even affected since it's the present you that is affected.

So the previous you still gets away with it.

But then it's really amazing.
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Exactly, I am not that evil person but I have to pay for his sins which I don't remember. Worse I may have been a caged deprived elephant on rampage killing a few humans 10 lives ago. What logic is this?
seraph00
post May 30 2022, 11:58 AM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ May 28 2022, 04:41 PM)
That is not entirely correct.

Read this quote from Steven Weinberg :-

With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.

Many people in religion do evil but thinking that they are doing good.
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not just religion, any sort of authoritative structure has the same problem.

As long as your orders come from a person, you do not know if your actions are for good or bad.

Do gun manufacturers care if their guns are used to kill kids in school?
ramz
post May 30 2022, 12:59 PM

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QUOTE(seraph00 @ May 30 2022, 11:58 AM)
not just religion, any sort of authoritative structure has the same problem.

As long as your orders come from a person, you do not know if your actions are for good or bad.

Do gun manufacturers care if their guns are used to kill kids in school?
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There must be a system to improve or correct the authority.
Democracy is such general system.

Religion is based on non negotiable scriptures. Not many systems left out there that operates this way. Religion is slowly getting irrelevant. Indoctrination is the only weapon left to keep it alive. That's why it's compulsory in school nowadays, unlike the 80s.

This post has been edited by ramz: May 30 2022, 01:04 PM
TSpuchongite
post May 30 2022, 01:12 PM

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QUOTE(seraph00 @ May 30 2022, 11:58 AM)
not just religion, any sort of authoritative structure has the same problem.

As long as your orders come from a person, you do not know if your actions are for good or bad.

Do gun manufacturers care if their guns are used to kill kids in school?
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Any sort of authoritative structure could do bad, but they would have problem asserting their evil as good, as they would finally have to some sort of justification, and religion is a convenient vehicle for that.

In the case of gun manufacturers, do they assert they are doing good when killing people ? It's hard.

In the case of Putin, how does he justify his actions as good actions? He use some kind of Russian nationalism plus a fraction of religion for it.
seraph00
post May 30 2022, 01:26 PM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ May 30 2022, 01:12 PM)
Any sort of authoritative structure could do bad, but they would have problem asserting their evil as good, as they would finally have to some sort of justification, and religion is a convenient vehicle for that.

In the case of gun manufacturers, do they assert they are doing good when killing people ? It's hard.

In the case of Putin, how does he justify his actions as good actions? He use some kind of Russian nationalism plus a fraction of religion for it.
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I do agree with religion being a convenient vehicle, but it is not limited to just religion. Being in Putin's army, for example. You do not have to subscribe to a religion to be shooting guns in Ukraine.

Being a simple theist who does not condone violence but follows the precepts of his or her belief? Nothing wrong with it. Highly encouraged, even.

All i am saying is that following a religion isn't all bad. It depends how you follow said religion. That part requires your own morals and judgements regardless of what your religion teaches you.
TSpuchongite
post May 30 2022, 01:45 PM

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QUOTE(seraph00 @ May 30 2022, 01:26 PM)
I do agree with religion being a convenient vehicle, but it is not limited to just religion. Being in Putin's army, for example. You do not have to subscribe to a religion to be shooting guns in Ukraine.

Being a simple theist who does not condone violence but follows the precepts of his or her belief? Nothing wrong with it. Highly encouraged, even.

All i am saying is that following a religion isn't all bad. It depends how you follow said religion. That part requires your own morals and judgements regardless of what your religion teaches you.
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In the case of the Ukraine war, we cannot put the morality focus on the army, because army has to follow order. But we should focus on the morality of Putin.

Similarly we cannot put our focus on gun manufacturers. In the case of shooting in USA killing kids, for example, the focus is on why lack of gun control .....
seraph00
post May 30 2022, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ May 30 2022, 01:45 PM)
In the case of the Ukraine war, we cannot put the morality focus on the army, because army has to follow order. But we should focus on the morality of Putin.

Similarly we cannot put our focus on gun manufacturers. In the case of shooting in USA killing kids, for example, the focus is on why lack of gun control .....
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what are the cases then, that we can solely blame on religion? And in those cases, can we absolve the criminal of his crimes because of his religion?
TSpuchongite
post May 30 2022, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(seraph00 @ May 30 2022, 01:57 PM)
what are the cases then, that we can solely blame on religion? And in those cases, can we absolve the criminal of his crimes because of his religion?
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It is not entirely religion but rather ideology. Religion is one type of ideology.
Spear2
post May 30 2022, 04:14 PM

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QUOTE(seraph00 @ May 30 2022, 01:26 PM)
I do agree with religion being a convenient vehicle, but it is not limited to just religion. Being in Putin's army, for example. You do not have to subscribe to a religion to be shooting guns in Ukraine.

Being a simple theist who does not condone violence but follows the precepts of his or her belief? Nothing wrong with it. Highly encouraged, even.

All i am saying is that following a religion isn't all bad. It depends how you follow said religion. That part requires your own morals and judgements regardless of what your religion teaches you.
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Since you put your own morals and judgements above your religion then why need to follow it. In fact that is what most non-believers do, learn the good things from religion and life philosophy, and apply them.
Accord2018
post May 30 2022, 04:47 PM

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It's fair so you cannot retain your memory. The first is to avoid you to live on revenge. Secondly to award those who truly believe in the teaching and supernatural of religion. Most rich people are not good-hearted in nature. When I was in trouble in the past, I find them to get help they don't bother me at all. So in the end I only depend on myself to get more good karma so I can pass through the troubles in my life and it really works. Those stingy rich people thought they can achieve such status solely due to their hard work and skill. But does not realize karma can affect one's future life in terms of luck and fortune.

It is fair so those rich people cannot abuse their wealth to create good karma. It should be sincere if you wanted to help people and do more good.

If those rich people know karma is real, definitely they will help me but that is not a sincere help since they only wanted to earn good karma but their hearts can still be very evil. Amitabha...

And about the physical body, it does not matter. It is still the same soul. Even with a different body, the suffering on the new body to endure is still real and if you think it is okay and nice to get that kind of suffering then just continue being evil. Spur can forget about karma but karma will never forget him.

This post has been edited by Accord2018: May 30 2022, 04:52 PM
ramz
post May 30 2022, 04:58 PM

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QUOTE(Accord2018 @ May 30 2022, 04:47 PM)
It's fair so you cannot retain your memory. The first is to avoid you to live on revenge. Secondly to award those who truly believe in the teaching and supernatural of religion. Most rich people are not good-hearted in nature. When I was in trouble in the past, I find them to get help they don't bother me at all. So in the end I only depend on myself to get more good karma so I can pass through the troubles in my life and it really works. Those stingy rich people thought they can achieve such status solely due to their hard work and skill. But does not realize karma can affect one's future life in terms of luck and fortune.

It is fair so those rich people cannot abuse their wealth to create good karma. It should be sincere if you wanted to help people and do more good.

If those rich people know karma is real, definitely they will help me but that is not a sincere help since they only wanted to earn good karma but their hearts can still be very evil. Amitabha...

And about the physical body, it does not matter. It is still the same soul. Even with a different body, the suffering on the new body to endure is still real and if you think it is okay and nice to get that kind of suffering then just continue being evil. Spur can forget about karma but karma will never forget him.
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You heard of Occam's razor? The simplest explaination is the right one, u die, your brains stops functioning, and u don't remember anything
zzzz52
post May 31 2022, 08:28 AM

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QUOTE(ramz @ May 30 2022, 04:58 PM)
You heard of Occam's razor? The simplest explaination is the right one, u die, your brains stops functioning, and u don't remember anything
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It maybe the simplest explanation is the right one, which in most cases it is true. My biggest bias currently is the reincarnation stories and reports that seems hard to refute.
ramz
post May 31 2022, 08:39 AM

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QUOTE(zzzz52 @ May 31 2022, 08:28 AM)
It maybe the simplest explanation is the right one, which in most cases it is true. My biggest bias currently is the reincarnation stories and reports that seems hard to refute.
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Reincarnation stories are rare. And there are plausible explanations that can rule it out. The stories don't have full control over what the subject knows prior to interview There may be feeding of information through elaborate means just for the story. That probably explains why it is rare. Else why can't these stories be told by every human?

There were never a scientific approach to these stories to date.
Accord2018
post May 31 2022, 09:03 AM

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QUOTE(zzzz52 @ May 31 2022, 08:28 AM)
It maybe the simplest explanation is the right one, which in most cases it is true. My biggest bias currently is the reincarnation stories and reports that seems hard to refute.
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If you are not trolling and sincerely want to seek the truth, just visit the haunted mansion in KL at midnite and camp there. Then you will know what is a soul. You go and seek for the answer, not waiting for the answer on the net.
TSpuchongite
post May 31 2022, 09:10 AM

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QUOTE(Accord2018 @ May 31 2022, 09:03 AM)
If you are not trolling and sincerely want to seek the truth,  just visit the haunted mansion in KL at midnite and camp there. Then you will know what is a soul. You go and seek for the answer, not waiting for the answer on the net.
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So childish and superficial.

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