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> Did COVID-19 Come from USA?

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koja6049
post Mar 31 2020, 07:05 PM

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QUOTE(G-17 @ Mar 31 2020, 07:02 PM)
Not really. It's mainly because anti-intellectualism is strong nowadays. Actually, it's been strong since the beginning.
Only difference is that now, it's gone beyond the political and cultural spectrum and has now started shitting on science and common sense, mainly thanks to religious zealots, flat-earthers and anti-vaxxers, Trump, Zakir Naik, that holywood actress that sells "energizing" vagina rocks, etc.
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you may frame it however you want, but the nett effect is science is losing, unless scientists acknowledges the fact that they fail at communication and engage the experts smile.gif
G-17
post Mar 31 2020, 07:12 PM

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QUOTE(koja6049 @ Mar 31 2020, 07:05 PM)
you may frame it however you want, but the nett effect is science is losing, unless scientists acknowledges the fact that they fail at communication and engage the experts smile.gif
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That has never been the scientist's job. It's been the media's.
koja6049
post Mar 31 2020, 07:13 PM

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QUOTE(G-17 @ Mar 31 2020, 07:12 PM)
That has never been the scientist's job. It's been the media's.
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the media doesn't care about science, they care more about ratings. Still is the failure of scientists smile.gif
ikram_p
post Mar 31 2020, 07:17 PM

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This post has been edited by ikram_p: Mar 31 2020, 07:17 PM
G-17
post Mar 31 2020, 07:22 PM

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QUOTE(koja6049 @ Mar 31 2020, 07:13 PM)
the media doesn't care about science, they care more about ratings. Still is the failure of scientists smile.gif
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How is it a failure of scientists when the media reporting them doesn't communicate the results they present properly? If anything, it's our failure as the people consuming the media. We've lost the ability to form our own informed opinion, which leads back to the media and their disinformation (whether politically or financially motivated), not the scientists.

The WHO has, from the very beginning, expressed the unprecedented danger Covid-19 presents. They expressed it in plain, simple English that any translation software wouldn't have problems with. The media were too busy to care, trying to create conspiracy theories instead. People couldn't differentiate and continued their social kissing greetings, rave parties, football matches, political rallies, masses, tablighs, and now we're in this mess.

This post has been edited by G-17: Mar 31 2020, 07:23 PM
koja6049
post Mar 31 2020, 07:23 PM

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QUOTE(G-17 @ Mar 31 2020, 07:22 PM)
How is it a failure of scientists when the media reporting them doesn't communicate the results properly? If anything, it's our failure as the people consuming the media. We've lost the ability to form our own informed opinion, which leads back to the media and their disinformation (whether politically or financially motivated), not the scientists.

The WHO has, from the very beginning, expressed the unprecedented danger Covid-19 presents. The media were too busy trying to create conspiracy theories. People couldn't differentiate and continued their social kissing greetings, rave parties, political rallies, masses, tablighs, and now we're in this mess.
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that's why i say this is a net failure. Scientists must buck up their game to win over the media. If science cannot help humanity, then science is useless smile.gif
narf03
post Mar 31 2020, 08:17 PM

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QUOTE(atilla @ Mar 31 2020, 11:10 AM)
Thats very strongly implying that the coronavirus couldn't have come from China since the 'elephant' must have been brought to the 'toilet' which is categorically false.

Thats hiding the fact that China has been breeding elephants to put in its toilets for a while now. China has always been stubbornly refusing to stop illicit trade in wildlife eg. not joining the rest of the world to ban the trade in ivory until 2017 I think, reversing its rhino horn ban, not regulating and cleaning up its own messy wildlife trade. Now China is relying on its propaganda ministry to try to create doubt as to the origins of the virus.

China briefly put some curbs on wildlife trade after the SARS epidemic but quietly lifted it after a while. And now it seems that China will finally have to confront its own 'elephant breeding' problem and put permanent restrictions to clean up its dirty wildlife trade in its own backyard. The world doesn't need trade in pangolins for their supposedly medicinal value for another China born pandemic in the future.
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Well since china want the world scientist to investigate the elephant, if its from the toilet, the scientist will eventually find out its from the toilet, stop talking about other irrelevant bamboo trees, they have no direct relation to that elephant, china has that bamboo tree problem, but its the same for all other country, they have their problem, ie japan killing dolphin, usa permit hunting of wild animal for fun, even malaysia is not all innocent when you really want to talk about irrelevant things(i dont want to offend certain ppl so i dont want to give example), china is not perfect, so is the world, when you want china to be perfect, you have to be more than perfect 1st.
atilla
post Apr 1 2020, 05:11 PM

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QUOTE(G-17 @ Mar 31 2020, 11:02 AM)
Not really. It's mainly because anti-intellectualism is strong nowadays.
.......
Yes its a shame that Malaysia can't boast of a truly well educated middle class. The internet age really exposed the bunch who believe in half baked conspiracy theories and fake news followers.
atilla
post Apr 1 2020, 06:19 PM

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QUOTE(narf03 @ Mar 31 2020, 12:17 PM)
Well since china want the world scientist to investigate the elephant, if its from the toilet, the scientist will eventually find out its from the toilet, stop talking about other irrelevant bamboo trees, they have no direct relation to that elephant, china has that bamboo tree problem, but its the same for all other country, they have their problem, ie japan killing dolphin, usa permit hunting of wild animal for fun, even malaysia is not all innocent when you really want to talk about irrelevant things(i dont want to offend certain ppl so i dont want to give example), china is not perfect, so is the world, when you want china to be perfect, you have to be more than perfect 1st.
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China refused to allow access to outside investigators like the WHO or US CDC early on during the outbreak of the Wuhan virus and expelled 2 WSJ journalists because the CCP wanted to spin the news. Hardly the sort of attitude for a country that is supposedly so open to wanting the world to investigate the Wuhan virus.

China has bad track record of starting bird/human flu pandemics through unhealthy practices in farming/wildlife trade - 1996 H5N1 avian flu, 2002 SARS, 2003 Fujian flu, 2013 H7N9, 2020 COVID19. No other country in the world has this track record of internal/international epidemics or created as much havoc. Ending the illicit wildlife trade is a long overdue first step for China, the world doesn't need a SARS-3.

This post has been edited by atilla: Apr 1 2020, 06:20 PM
narf03
post Apr 1 2020, 07:17 PM

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QUOTE(atilla @ Apr 1 2020, 06:19 PM)
China refused to allow access to outside investigators like the WHO or US CDC early on during the outbreak of the Wuhan virus and expelled 2 WSJ journalists because the CCP wanted to spin the news. Hardly the sort of attitude for a country that is supposedly so open to wanting the world to investigate the Wuhan virus.

China has bad track record of starting bird/human flu pandemics through unhealthy practices in farming/wildlife trade - 1996 H5N1 avian flu, 2002 SARS, 2003 Fujian flu, 2013 H7N9, 2020 COVID19. No other country in the world has this track record of internal/international epidemics or created as much havoc. Ending the illicit wildlife trade is a long overdue first step for China, the world doesn't need a SARS-3.
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more bamboo trees, so we are no longer talking about elephant from toilet anymore.

it is the same for every country, just like WHO want to investigate the flu death or suspicious death, do u think USA will allow it ? NO, its clearly double or triple standard, USA will use any reason to reject it, while no matter what reason gave by china, USA will still not satisfy.

China is the worst ? seriously ?

do u know about spanish flu ? i suggest you dig it out, then compare to coronavirus, assuming coronavirus can kill another 10x more ppl. its still not as close as that.

https://www.history.com/news/why-was-it-cal...the-spanish-flu

if you dont believe my link, go search your own, make sure read multiple sites.
liangzai84
post Apr 1 2020, 09:55 PM

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It is reported that Wuhan patient zero is Sergeant Maatje Benassi from the US Military Cycling Team who attended the CISM Military World Games in Wuhan on Oct 2019. Her husband Benny Benassi is Holland's patient zero who is also a cyclist in the US Armed Forces (SPAWAR).

In July 2019 a bioweapon lab at Fort Detrick was shut down over leaks. The Fort Detrick laboratory handles high-level disease-causing material. It was shut after the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a cease and desist order to the organization. The lab, which was closed since July 2019, recently caught public attention as a petition submitted to the White House website on March 10 listed some coincidences in time between the closure and the COVID-19 outbreak.

A large-scale 'influenza' killed more than 10,000 people in the US in August 2019 following the closure.
The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) director Robert Redfield acknowledged that some flu patients in USA may have been misdiagnosed and actually had corona virus.

News reports about the closure of Fort Detrick were deleted amid the worsening COVID-19 pandemic, raising suspicions over the lab's relationship with the novel coronavirus. US government never disclose the real reason for the lab's closure and to clarify whether the lab was related to the novel coronavirus and whether there was a virus leak.

https://youtu.be/_jZzAAqo1t0

https://youtu.be/OvLHoSCkfEI

This post has been edited by liangzai84: Apr 1 2020, 10:05 PM
pattleongkam
post Apr 1 2020, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(liangzai84 @ Apr 1 2020, 09:55 PM)
It is reported that Wuhan patient zero is Sergeant Maatje Benassi from the US Military Cycling Team who attended the CISM Military World Games in Wuhan on Oct 2019. Her husband Benny Benassi is Holland's patient zero who is also a cyclist in the US Armed Forces (SPAWAR).

In July 2019 a bioweapon lab at Fort Detrick was shut down over leaks. The Fort Detrick laboratory handles high-level disease-causing material. It was shut after the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a cease and desist order to the organization. The lab, which was closed since July 2019, recently caught public attention as a petition submitted to the White House website on March 10 listed some coincidences in time between the closure and the COVID-19 outbreak.

A large-scale 'influenza' killed more than 10,000 people in the US in August 2019 following the closure.
The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) director Robert Redfield acknowledged that some flu patients in USA may have been misdiagnosed and actually had corona virus.

News reports about the closure of Fort Detrick were deleted amid the worsening COVID-19 pandemic, raising suspicions over the lab's relationship with the novel coronavirus. US government never disclose the real reason for the lab's closure and to clarify whether the lab was related to the novel coronavirus and whether there was a virus leak.


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fix!!!




hantu1911
post Apr 2 2020, 03:58 AM

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Greenpeace guys say the virus came from mother nature
Trump gang say its from China/Wuhan
PRC say it from US experiment
Religious fan say it from GODs
Vegetarian claim its from eating meat
X-file ppl claims it created by higher intelligent liform
narf03
post Apr 2 2020, 10:06 AM

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atilla
post Apr 3 2020, 10:45 PM

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QUOTE(narf03 @ Apr 1 2020, 11:17 AM)
more bamboo trees, so we are no longer talking about elephant from toilet anymore.

it is the same for every country, just like WHO want to investigate the flu death or suspicious death, do u think USA will allow it ? NO, its clearly double or triple standard, USA will use any reason to reject it, while no matter what reason gave by china, USA will still not satisfy.

China is the worst ? seriously ?
do u know about spanish flu ? i suggest you dig it out, then compare to coronavirus, assuming coronavirus can kill another 10x more ppl. its still not as close as that.
https://www.history.com/news/why-was-it-cal...the-spanish-flu
if you dont believe my link, go search your own, make sure read multiple sites.
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No you are making things up again. You have no examples to give about the US or any other democratic western country barring entry to WHO health investigators.
Wuhan China is the origin of the worldwide coronavirus epidemic and the Chinese govt refused to allow access to CDC/WHO in Feb and wasted weeks before allowing a joint mission. China did the exact same thing when SARS happened and tried to cover it up even more and longer.

The Spanish flu happened a long time ago in 1918 whereas China has had a recent string of epidemics from its farming/wildlife industry, even Chinese citizens don't trust the safety of their food.
narf03
post Apr 3 2020, 11:02 PM

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QUOTE(atilla @ Apr 3 2020, 10:45 PM)
No you are making things up again. You have no examples to give about the US or any other democratic western country barring entry to WHO health investigators.
Wuhan China is the origin of the worldwide coronavirus epidemic and the Chinese govt refused to allow access to CDC/WHO in Feb and wasted weeks before allowing a joint mission. China did the exact same thing when SARS happened and tried to cover it up even more and longer.

The Spanish flu happened a long time ago in 1918 whereas China has had a recent string of epidemics from its farming/wildlife industry, even Chinese citizens don't trust the safety of their food.
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what makes you think the whole world is on the same time line ? usa has been 1st world country for so many years, and 40 years ago china was still a 3rd world country, far below malaysia.

and you comparing china with what ? your imagination ? when you say somebody is bad, you need to find somebody good and compare with him, when you cannot find a good example, then u cant say hes bad.

again why you drag into food ? its CCP responsible for food safety ? i guess the next will be eating dogs, scammers, copy, clone thing like that ...
atilla
post Apr 4 2020, 10:27 PM

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QUOTE(narf03 @ Apr 3 2020, 03:02 PM)
what makes you think the whole world is on the same time line ? usa has been 1st world country for so many years, and 40 years ago china was still a 3rd world country, far below malaysia.

and you comparing china with what ? your imagination ? when you say somebody is bad, you need to find somebody good and compare with him, when you cannot find a good example, then u cant say hes bad.

again why you drag into food ? its CCP responsible for food safety ? i guess the next will be eating dogs, scammers, copy, clone thing like that ...
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You're not making any sense at all. Just trying to avoid having a reasonable discussion after I showed that everything you have said is wrong.

I brought up food safety issue because zoonotic diseases like SARS/H5N1/COVID is one side effect from a unhygenic agricultural industry.
narf03
post Apr 5 2020, 04:26 AM

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QUOTE(atilla @ Apr 4 2020, 10:27 PM)
You're not making any sense at all. Just trying to avoid having a reasonable discussion after I showed that everything you have said is wrong.

I brought up food safety issue because zoonotic diseases like SARS/H5N1/COVID is one side effect from a unhygenic agricultural industry.
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well, we dont agree on each other's so called proof.

you provided so called proof are from western media, they know nothing about science. they claim virus is from food or leaked from p4 lab, the only proof they able to provide is the virus exploded in china, and china was hiding some facts at beginning.

i believe more on the china side story, cause they are from scientist, at least they dont just blame, they point out a few things that scientist able to proof, scientist believe that, but western media completely ignore them.


TSMeis
post Apr 7 2020, 07:56 AM

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U.S. doctor with 'flu' in Jan tests positive for COVID-19 antibody

https://www.facebook.com/groups/68843034458...34908713268896/
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-04-05/U-S-d...7Vte/index.html
TSMeis
post Apr 7 2020, 08:26 AM

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First COVID-19 case in U.S., with no links to China



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