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> PLUS 18% volume drop IS worth 20% extension, stop complaining opposition fags

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prophetjul
post Jan 17 2020, 09:20 AM

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QUOTE(Nachiino Etamay @ Jan 17 2020, 09:14 AM)
Tak percaya check sendiri

Assuming Capital structure of RM33 billion, for simplicity purposes, FCFF = operating cash flows - capex but BEFORE bond payments and dividends.

Before: 2019: RM2.5 bil FCFF, 2038 RM5.6 bil FCFF
After: 2019: RM1.9 bil FCFF (18% reduction), 2058: RM4.5 bil FCFF (18% reduction)

both have IRR of 9.4%. ie: the toll IRR hasnt changed before and after the reduction.

possible upside due to increased volume, however, government actually still owes PLUS when FHR2 and Bukit Kayu Hitam toll terminated, in the RM200 millions. so its possible that it will be used to pay for this too.
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If CAPEX is the same, IRR must drop if FCFF drops.
prophetjul
post Jan 17 2020, 09:21 AM

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QUOTE(Avangelice @ Jan 17 2020, 09:15 AM)
The thing is after so many years the highway is already paid off! Why still need to collect tolls
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The first owner made a killing selling it off.

The later owners have not made their buck yet.
prophetjul
post Jan 17 2020, 09:36 AM

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QUOTE(Nachiino Etamay @ Jan 17 2020, 09:29 AM)
IRR is dependent on cash flow timing. it is all-in (includes capex, opex, excludes borrowing cost, dividends)
you can do it yourself on excel. just straight line it. the number wont run much.
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Yes. Look at the parameters involved.
If revenue is reduced by 18%, and capex and opex is maintained(no reason to be reduced), then IRR will surely reduce?
prophetjul
post Jan 17 2020, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(Nachiino Etamay @ Jan 17 2020, 09:39 AM)
20 years extension bro.
more years of cash flow = higher IRR but its offset by the 18% reduction in toll
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IRR is more sensitive to early years numbers I think.
As you stretch out too far, the effect is very much less.

Unless we are looking at EPF/Khaz IRR and not project IRR. smile.gif That may be more impactful, yeah
prophetjul
post Jan 17 2020, 09:53 AM

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QUOTE(teehk_tee @ Jan 17 2020, 09:37 AM)
who wants to make money, terms can always renegotiate when you are losing money, ask for compensation

just siphon it off via maintenance
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I was referring to the owners, EPF and Khazanah.
The rest is of couse Malaysian songlap. biggrin.gif
prophetjul
post Jan 17 2020, 10:51 AM

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QUOTE(drowning @ Jan 17 2020, 10:48 AM)
Third owner can't wait to get in!!!
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Yeah

Opportunists are still trying to fleece off the taxpayers!

At least, now as EPF stakeholders, we can at least hope to enjoy some financial benefits from the business.
prophetjul
post Jan 17 2020, 01:35 PM

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QUOTE(yhtan @ Jan 17 2020, 12:22 PM)
Back when PLUS highway and other highway was build based on IRR 20%! doh.gif  doh.gif
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Reason I mentioned that the 1st owners made a big killing!
prophetjul
post Jan 17 2020, 01:36 PM

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QUOTE(Nachiino Etamay @ Jan 17 2020, 12:25 PM)
When you sell a highway, you need to revalue your debt, equity and recalculate your capital structure.

The last transaction was last decade. so the capital structure is more reflective of now. It was transacted at high-single-digit-IRR which is standard for IRR now.

IRR during that time was 20%, because risk was soo high and loans was expensive. corporates were borrowing at 10%-15% cuz its soo risky.
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I understand, if memory serves, that the gomen guaranteed some of the loan taken out by these private companies.
What risk? laugh.gif
prophetjul
post Jan 17 2020, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(Nachiino Etamay @ Jan 17 2020, 02:35 PM)
some =/= all.

if you are the equity, basically if your RM6 bil highway fails, u lose all your money. if traffic below projections, you lose all your money. if  no one likes ur highway you lose all your money. your contractor suk and lari? you lose all your money. highway is suky business now. all for an IRR of 9%? jual burger IRR 400% bro

hindsight is 20/20, we in 2020 knows PLUS is a good investment. but the guy who had to build it, knows nothing about future demand for a future road which no one knows about.

this is not EQUITY GUARANTEE.
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How many burgers you nak jual? laugh.gif
But having said that, highway concessions is not new, but only in Malaysia at the time.
Traffic count/growth projection is normally quite conservative and it showed!

i am not saying IRR 9%, but rather around 12% ish is already highly lucrative. 20% is actually outrageous.
The equity at the time is probably quite small since who the heck is UEM? Hence the loan guarantee requirement from the gomen.
prophetjul
post Jan 17 2020, 04:46 PM

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QUOTE(Nachiino Etamay @ Jan 17 2020, 04:42 PM)
you can say its conservative because you are behind 20/20

at the point the decision needs to be made to construct the highway, SOMEONE needs to put half a billion or so equity and risk total capital loss. If his internal IRR is 15%, in 1980, this is worth RM134 billion today at his internal IRR. This is NOT an easy decision. sure. traffic can be higher than expected and get IRR 20%. but the highway can fail and i get nothing due to the insane gearing.

This is what im saying about risk and IRR's.

its only an easy decision in hindsight.

personally, i dont think they are making too much money. they took the risk, they did the project well, they designed the highway well, and they made money

stop thinking making money is songlap. the government could not and would not afford that highway. thats why they tap the capital market. And the capital market demands this returns for risk.
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The gearing risk is the government's, not the investor. That is the biggest risk, mitigated.

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