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> Why the industry is in troubleee

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TSjbcoder
post Jan 14 2020, 10:26 AM, updated 7d ago

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Tak mau belajar foundation, mau shortcut.

You could never fully understand how programming languages function, especially C/C++ and similar other techniques if you don't understand how the hardware/cpu works.


I came from a private college NON-ENGINEERING course, not even CS, just pure Computer Studies and even WE are made to learn assembly language.


Now you have UNIVERSITY PUREBRED Engineers COMPLAINING about having to learn the bred and butter of their trade...

What has the world gone to?!


QUOTE(littlegamer @ Jan 14 2020, 09:11 AM)
I would say the education is way way way out dated. Say my engineering. We spend 2 first year learn those big shot scientists that invented all the fancy formula that make our world possible today, I get it I get it,but i think is better to learn it from a higher level, say learn to make useful code not learning assembly language or learning chip registers even the hardware is way outdated.

Just teach them how to create things, not refreshing old stuff year after year.

In the end at work, is about how to find solutions or even make something work.
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bumpo
post Jan 14 2020, 10:48 AM

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they dont even know what they can do with the power of assembly...
*sigh* if only i had it in my days sad.gif
CreamSauce
post Jan 15 2020, 12:58 PM

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I think in the Western IT world, people give credits or respect to algorithms named after inventors. One example is Kolmogorov complexity, It is named after Andrey Kolmogorov, who first published on the subject of algorithmic information theory in 1963.

It is intriguing they did study these in college or schools?

Even if bit shifting has got a name, they named it Sliding Window.
blackstar88
post Jan 16 2020, 01:19 PM

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i think the original post is pointing to the wrong direction, those useless things that taught in Uni is actually English, Malay, History, Pengajian Am in College. These were practically can teach in SPM level and should have done that.
TSjbcoder
post Jan 16 2020, 01:23 PM

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QUOTE(blackstar88 @ Jan 16 2020, 01:19 PM)
i think the original post is pointing to the wrong direction, those useless things that taught in Uni is actually English, Malay, History, Pengajian Am in College. These were practically can teach in SPM level and should have done that.
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We're not talking about the original post, but that particular post where an Engineering grad complaining about having to learn assembly language. *lmao*
abubin
post Jan 16 2020, 04:49 PM

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The problem is the company or bosses don't care about those. They only want the application to work like they expected and to make it worse they want it fast. That is why devs have to come up with shortcuts to speed up production. That is why end results have lots of issues and untested syntax that have bugs. Higher levels don't know the importance of testing the apps. They just want it to work. That's why "indian" programmers have very fast turn around time. They just do what you want without proper coding and testing. When have bugs, they will run away cause they already collected the money.


TSjbcoder
post Jan 16 2020, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(abubin @ Jan 16 2020, 04:49 PM)
The problem is the company or bosses don't care about those. They only want the application to work like they expected and to make it worse they want it fast. That is why devs have to come up with shortcuts to speed up production. That is why end results have lots of issues and untested syntax that have bugs. Higher levels don't know the importance of testing the apps. They just want it to work. That's why "indian" programmers have very fast turn around time. They just do what you want without proper coding and testing. When have bugs, they will run away cause they already collected the money.
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We're not talking about what the bosses want. We're talking about necessary foundations that shape a developer's problem solving skills.

What the boss wants, you can learn it yourself at your own time even during school/academic days.

You don't need a college/school to teach you how to apply certain frameworks or api.

The school/uni does not exist to fit exactly what employers want. That is YOUR job to find out what the industry is about and learn the tools of the trade yourself, provided you're equipped with the proper understanding/foundation.


Visual studio, react, jquery, whatever the fuck framework is, will move and change according to times. The uni is not obligated to teach those to you. You're obligated to self teach yourself what's useful after the school/uni equipped you with the proper base of knowledge.

We're talking about students who complain about not being able to meet industry expectations, when the truth is they wasted their uni years fucking around instead of learning other things aside from what the uni taught.

In short they failed at being independent knowledge/learners, and expect to be spoonfed at the school/uni.


You know what's worse? Smart ass employers who complain about grads who are not equipped with latest tech/framework/knowledge and blame the education system. The truth is these employers are probably flunkies themselves who don't understand the basis for uni/college education and expect instant results.


abubin
post Jan 16 2020, 05:08 PM

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So you are saying student are not taught about programming foundation in uni or the uni got teach but they just didn't learn?
TSjbcoder
post Jan 16 2020, 05:12 PM

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QUOTE(abubin @ Jan 16 2020, 05:08 PM)
So you are saying student are not taught about programming foundation in uni or the uni got teach but they just didn't learn?
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The students are blaming the uni for not teaching them 'industry relevant' stuff like what framework, what language/tools to use, which is nonsense because that's not a uni's job.

They could've easily learned those on their own after learning the foundations the uni taught.


But how many students actually do that? Likely none. When have free time, do other things like party, fuck around, etc. Uni time is when we're most free and aside from learning all the theory/foundation of CS, plenty of time to learn what is used in the industry at that time, VS, VS code, Android studio or whatever tools that the uni are not obligated to teach you.


Tools of trade are volatile. Algorithms/foundation of how a computer works, like asm or logic, are fixed and applies everywhere beyond time.


Our unis/college are teaching the SAME things other overseas or western Unis are teaching their students.


The only difference is our grads have the wrong attitude towards education, and this is simply a reflection of a fucked up community/culture/identity and not the education system.


abubin
post Jan 16 2020, 05:21 PM

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QUOTE(jbcoder @ Jan 16 2020, 05:12 PM)
The students are blaming the uni for not teaching them 'industry relevant' stuff like what framework, what language/tools to use, which is nonsense because that's not a uni's job.

They could've easily learned those on their own after learning the foundations the uni taught.
But how many students actually do that? Likely none. When have free time, do other things like party, fuck around, etc. Uni time is when we're most free and aside from learning all the theory/foundation of CS, plenty of time to learn what is used in the industry at that time, VS, VS code, Android studio or whatever tools that the uni are not obligated to teach you.
Tools of trade are volatile. Algorithms/foundation of how a computer works, like asm or logic, are fixed and applies everywhere beyond time.
Our unis/college are teaching the SAME things other overseas or western Unis are teaching their students.
The only difference is our grads have the wrong attitude towards education, and this is simply a reflection of a fucked up community/culture/identity and not the education system.
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Ok got it and I agree. I would partly blame the education system here. From primary until secondary they emphasizing on academic. There are no syllabus that teaches about how to be pro-active. How to ask questions and so on. In MY, you just learn what teachers say. No questions! That is same kind of thinking for certain religious practice. Because if people start asking questions, it will give more problems to the society and religion. Sorry to go off topic a bit but I think they are related as the people who does the education system top there have these kind of mindset so you can't expect the system to change anytime soon.

BTW, I do not know of any students who actually blame schools for not teaching them basic foundations only. I am sure there are these lazy bums out that who does. The few fresh grad that I know would acknowledge their inexperience and is open to learning new stuffs. From what I see, these kind of attitude is good enough as I can see some of these programmers worked their way up in my company to become senior programmers.

This post has been edited by abubin: Jan 16 2020, 05:22 PM
bumpo
post Jan 17 2020, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(abubin @ Jan 16 2020, 05:21 PM)
Ok got it and I agree. I would partly blame the education system here. From primary until secondary they emphasizing on academic. There are no syllabus that teaches about how to be pro-active. How to ask questions and so on. In MY, you just learn what teachers say. No questions! That is same kind of thinking for certain religious practice. Because if people start asking questions, it will give more problems to the society and religion. Sorry to go off topic a bit but I think they are related as the people who does the education system top there have these kind of mindset so you can't expect the system to change anytime soon.

BTW, I do not know of any students who actually blame schools for not teaching them basic foundations only. I am sure there are these lazy bums out that who does. The few fresh grad that I know would acknowledge their inexperience and is open to learning new stuffs. From what I see, these kind of attitude is good enough as I can see some of these programmers worked their way up in my company to become senior programmers.
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vast majority of the time you are not even learning but instead you are forced to memorized which is passed off as learning laugh.gif
unfortunately most carry this "memorize it all" into higher education and surprised pikachu at how well it turned out laugh.gif laugh.gif

 

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