Here's my problem

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=448528&hl=

Date Apr 28 2007, Buy Paypal fund from Earl-Ku & my paypal account is not verify so that i cant accept the transfer. So i ask him to order something from online that i am going buy using those paypal funds i bought from him. But the online store doesn't accept the order.

So, we chat at msn & i ask him can refund the money by bank he said there will be some charge fee unless i accept the paypal transaction straight to my paypal account & i ask him can wait until i verify my paypal and he agree without saying anything about extra charges to wait or trouble him by just help me do some online transaction.

But right now after i verify my paypal, & ask him to transfer the paypal funds, he's asking for charge fee of Rm 30.

here's some screen shot about the conversation with him by e-mail.





Right now, he is forcing me to agree the charges before transfer the money either by bank or paypal.

This post has been edited by DEz012: Jul 14 2007, 09:19 PM

Well, if he has agreed to wait n not charge then he is going against his word on the agreement for asking RM30.

Retrospect u could ask ur avatar to off lol...

Right now, i'm waiting for his reply by e-mail.

He 's forcing the charges

Did u ask him to come here?

Yes, i just tell him to come here.

So make this perfectly clear:

U bought 75 bucks from him.

U transferred the myr to him.

He is unable to transfer the greenbacks to u cause off ur paypal account is not verified.

He agrees to wait n transfer the full 75 bucks when u have settle ur paypal.

He did not mention there will be any charge for waiting.

He is now charging u 30myr for waiting to send u money that u have already paid for in advance.

Questions:

Is there any charges for paypal to paypal transfers?

Did u have pay a service charge for ur giro transfer to him (i presume u used girl transfer).

I wish you could have came here sooner.

Ok this is wat happened.

1. he came to me and asked for paypal fund on ly.net
2. ask wats his paypal account > gave me one > at this point with another 2 - 3 contacts i shall be able to settle it (how hard is it to do a paypal transact? you tell me, you agree, i agree, you send the cash, i check, then i send the paypal, then its done...but read on)
3. he sends me email asking for it, then send money request twice from paypal
4. then calls me at my number(early in the morning, 8ish) and asks me to send money first
5. tells him this is not how it works > you transfer money, i check, then i transfer paypal
6. ok, now he sends the money a day or two later if i remembered correctly
7. i sent him the paypal to his account
8. tells me later he cannot accept it, why? its not verified
9. now he canceled it, told me to wait
10. told him he can give me another account, like his friends or family ones sooi can transfer it immediately
11. tells me to transfer the money to 3rd party, he wans to buy something online ( some anime chick figurine)
12. ok since i have his money already and i do not want to delay the transaction, i just followed (on occasion, i do transaction like this when i have request, but they all normally ask me first, if i find it troublesome, i do not proceed, but in his case, i bliged cause he has already sent the money and i do not want to delay)
13. gave me the site, and instructs me how to do it, this was on msn
14. tried for a few times, did not went through, i sat through whole afternoon with him to do this
15. finally the 3rd party server was like down and not responding, this was already evening
16. finally told him i will try again tomoro and let him know the result
17. then tomoro i tried and it went through > and i gave him the details (this is where normally a transaction will be considered completed, but no it didnt, read on...)
18. after a week or so, he said he did not received any reply from the 3rd party store confirming the purchase
19. told me to wait a few days > a few days later i suggested to email the 3rd party store > no reply from it
20. told him i will request a refund from the store via paypal
21. waited a week later > the refund came through
22. told him i will refund him back > if he wans it via m2u, i will deduct a "service fee" > did not agree > told him to get another paypal account
23. told me will get his own accoutn verified (now that was back in April 2007)
24. finally this week, emailed me and told me to send his money to his paypal
25. after some thought, i told him i will charge him RM30 for the "service" i rendered, no matter what way he wans the money refunded
26. he raised the matter here.

so now i will still refund him but minus the RM30, no matter what happens here, to me thats my final decision. and stop cursing me in the email replies.

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Added on July 14, 2007, 11:34 pmcheck my thread, all transactions has been completed very well, even for a USD700 transaction, and the guy even sent e the money first ... i do not keep a long list like everyone does, but my record has been good.

This post has been edited by earl-ku: Jul 14 2007, 11:34 PM

So basically he ask to u to render him a service of purchasing a figurine from a store then apparently the store didn't send the figurine n u had to get the refund from the store (which proves they did receive the money since they refunded it) n then ask for the money to be refunded back to him.

DEz012, no offence but u didn't really buy anything from earl-ku in the end n u did have him to several favours for u. I think u should consider a small "reward" for earl-ku troubles?

Unless what earl-ku says is untrue but he looks like a fairly honest fella.

I know that i trouble him for a while but Rm 30 is too much for a reward. i'm gladly give him Rm 10 for those trouble. First of all i dont know that unverify paypal cannot receive money & i don't have any friends & family with paypal account.

22. told him i will refund him back > if he wans it via m2u, i will deduct a "service fee" > did not agree > told him to get another paypal account

about this problem, last time i reward him Like Rm 5 as service fees he said not enough & want like Rm 20+. Then i said no way.

This post has been edited by DEz012: Jul 15 2007, 12:24 AM

he did not ask me to buy any figurine for the first few contacts, he only asked for paypal, but then after sending him the funds and was unable to receive it, only did he asked for the purchase for him.

please dont accuse me of cheting or con, but even when someone refund u, there will be a restocking fee, and in this case, i have rendered my "service" and in the end of the day it did not worked out.

and made me waited for so long to be able to refund him, thats why i had the service fee deducted

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Added on July 15, 2007, 12:24 amRM10? lol

and yeah i forgot another step in the long list, was that he asked for USD75 and somehow the purchase was only USD70++ so there was an extra USD5 there, and i transfered that back to you.

just look at the stuff i had to do just to complete the deal.

whatever goes on in here does not matter, just agree to the RM30 deduction and i will send the money the following day immediately.

until then, i will not proceed with anything.

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Added on July 15, 2007, 12:25 amat that point, i have already asked for a "service fee" ... so u do remember

but u did not agree, so i did gave u the balance back, did i? so until then it was all fine, but then ur 3rd party store went sour and did not proceed by sending u the stuff.

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Added on July 15, 2007, 12:26 amand no its not a "reward" - i do not take rewards, diffrentiate a reward and a service fee.

This post has been edited by earl-ku: Jul 15 2007, 12:26 AM

Yes i didn't ask u to buy any figurine for the first few contact but u can decline this favour that i ask u right at that moment after i'm having problems with the paypal transaction & should refund back my money straight away & sell those fund to another people. Coz' i see another forumer willing to help another guy from another topic, same as this method were gone very smoothly & happy, so i try it out & u agree to help & didn't say anything about service charge.

As all normal deal with paypal and bank transfer only, this will take less than 10 minutes depending on the time u get the TAC

then with a normal "purchase for you" will take maybe twice the time as normal ones.

then your transaction, it was very lengthy, remember how many times i tried for you? the whole afternoon, as the server was slow and eventually went down.

if it only stopped here, yes - i am ok with it,

but then when u want me to try again later and then only tomoro it went through, and then a week or so later u did not get a respond from the seller, i could have just let u communicate with the 3rd party seller urself and let u resolve it by urself

but then again, i went through the trouble to contact the seller, then a week later when i get no respond from them, i got paypa to do a refund

then u tell me u will not accept the service fees i propose to transfer the money to ur m2u nor did u want tooget another paypal account so i can do the transfer immediately back to u.

at this point i offered to transfer it back you at no charge to any paypal account u want. but this was roughly 2 months ago.

as of now, i feel that i have been put through the trouble which is not justified in this transaction therefore demanding a RM30 service fee.

read all the above again, and tell me if this is not how a noomal transaction deal will go through, and you will know the RM30 is justified.

i will transfer a refund of; if you agree, or we can continue to argue on it here;

m2u : (USD75 X 3.3) - RM30
or
paypal : (USD75 - USD10)

whichever way u like

How long does it take to verify a paypal account?

noomore than a few minutes?

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Added on July 16, 2007, 12:09 amU better bank in the money to my m2u. i dont want to waste anymore time with u. I already give u my maybank account. There's nothing to say anymore, no matter what i say u will still deducted the charges.

This post has been edited by DEz012: Jul 16 2007, 12:12 AM

U better bank in the rest of my money to my m2u. I don't want to argue with u anymore & wasted my time with u

i will transfer a refund of; if you agree, or we can continue to argue on it here;

m2u : (USD75 X 3.3) - RM30
=247.5 - 30
=217.5 must be bank in my account not less a single cent.

Hmm to me, "favour" usually means "free".........
But after that comes back to ask for "service fee" seems abit like exorting to me....

Yes i'm kinda agree with u favour is usually free he didn't say i need to pay the service fee first before he help me, then suddenly ask me pay the service after doing all those things. What can i do the money is in his hands.

If im not mistaken, sending money over Paypal has Paypal's own services charges arent they?

This services are suppose to be charged if stated by seller, but since earl-ku helped u juz appreciate it. To be honest, rm30 not much already.

Ok i shall quote the refund email from your 3rd party store

They do not send to Malaysia, its totally ur own fault as you have not checked with them if they send to Malaysia.

And do not say that i extort you, a favor is when i feel comfortable doing it, and its all up to me when i say its a favor or not.

And from the end of the transaction i did tell you i wanted to charge you a service fee of RM20, but you did not agree, i was ok with it.

Then after so long i felt that i do have to charge you a "service fee" after all, and decided it to be RM30

There is not much i can really do with RM30 to tell u the truth.

And i have forgoten, the amount to be refunded is (USD70.63 X 3.3) - RM30

NOT USD75 as stated earlier, as i have left out the part where i refunded you the balance after paying to the 3rd party store.



This post has been edited by earl-ku: Jul 16 2007, 07:50 PM

AS I ALREADY SAID BANK IN THE MONEY & STOP WASTING MY TIME

You have got to say you agree to it, before i proceed, thats how a "dispute thread" works ...

Hmm so for him to get back his money, he had to say "i agree" but you in other hand willingly to help him to do favour and never demanded any service fees.....
And then things goes wrong and u demand for service fee.....

Do i see fairness in here?

Lets say u derma to ppl and then do u take back your derma from them?


Im a paypal seller/buyer too...
I will do favour if im feeling generous that time, and wont charge service fees if i never mentioned b4 i started

This post has been edited by WaCKy-Angel: Jul 17 2007, 01:50 PM

Although earl-ku have the right to demand some compensation for hassles and troubles he been through, i cant stop feeling that he is holding DEz012 at a ransom.

FTI, i have asked for a fee, after getting it completed, but he did not agree to it. i was ok, but then came the refunding part, and all, thats where i decided to demand for a service fee.

i am holding him at ransom, i have stated that the very moment i got the refund, if he wanted it service-fee free, he can gimme a paypal account immediately, and i will refund him immediately, but the service fee will remain if he wans it back via m2u, but that was 3 months ago ...

Let me get this straight. He's willing to give you the RM30 as a service fee, although he's not happy with it. You on the other hand demand that he actually comes here and post 'yes I agree to pay you, and I'm doing it willingly'? Maybe you're concerned about having a bad reputation? He's clearly not happy about the service charge, but seems willing enough to pay it since, in your own words, you're 'holding him ransom'. What more do you want? A letter of apology? Him to kao tao to you? If you were smart you'd settle the whole thing, let the thread get locked, and forget the whole thing.

Forcing someone to agree with you because you hold an advantage over them is not 'settling a dispute'.

Hmm....

Although opening a paypal account and getting verified is easy, but its not easy for someone without a credit card...

So now u're saying u did asked for a service fee if u are instructed to refund? but u didnt said that earlier....
But then again it also gives me an impression that u're extorting him....

If u're a regular paypal seller/buyer u would have know unverified account wont able to accept payment...
Obviously, u must have know the receiving party isnt verified eventhough he did not tell u, but when u're sending payment it would show....

Ah well.....I guess u should state in your paypal thread "10% service fee will be levied for refund"...

Alright, (USD70.63 X 3.3) - RM30
=233.07 - 30 =203.07 must be bank in to my account that i have give u before by this thursday. Or else i'm going to report to police that u cheat my money.
I presume that i don't need to say anything more.

Please tell me if this was a normal paypal transaction, if anyone of you can tell me that its just a simple transaction, yeah i will happily agree that i am wrong here, or else, this is just something everyone would have done.

I have sold almost USD4k of paypal fund, and this is by far the "best" transaction i have ever done!

when someone emails you and tell you that they wan fund, and then sends a money request to you via paypal, you would assume that he has a verified account. it only shows after you sent it.

and yeah, you are trying to intimidate me with a police report? wat should i do? tel you - "ok ok, i am very scared and i will refund u the money" ?

no! please do not have the impression that i am intimidated with something like that.

all you have to do is bloody say you are agreeing to the refund i am giving you and i shall give it to you, stop the trash talking and all. simple!

no worries, i will transfer you the money before 2400 Hours Wednesday.

This post has been edited by earl-ku: Jul 18 2007, 12:06 AM

I also sold almost USD18k of paypal fund but this style looks like a "LANUN" style.

i believe the term lanun would mean that i bear no responsibility if the transfer goes sour. and make no refund to him?

thats how a lanun will work.

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Added on July 18, 2007, 9:00 amand yeah, that RM30 will make me damn rich too by the way.

This post has been edited by earl-ku: Jul 18 2007, 09:00 AM

Nope...Although i seldom ask buyers to send "request money" to me but i believe it shows b4 u send....and obviously u could check the account info b4 u do...

Anyway, doesnt "alright" means "i agree aka OK" to u?
You're forcing him to do something insignificant so that he could not extort u back later saying he didnt agree?
Just like u asked for service fee but proceeded even after getting a "NO" and comes back asking a fee after that......

maybe that what will happen next....

Looks like lanun got scare after i said report to police if he didn't bank in the money by yesterday. Anyway i have make him a bad reputation at lowyat.

Its not scared, u lame fella, u agreed to it, i transfer it back to you.

Its the same scenario, i hold ur money, i can say watever i wan, its not back at you, you say all the kiddo talk you wan. if you have the feeling to go do a police report, return me the money and u can go ahead with the police report.

lam kiddo.

Ok lets end this...
Transfer back the refund minus RM30....

And next time pls do ask wat u requested others to do..
Tell your buyers "i agree not to charge service fee no matter wat hapen" b4 u reluctantly do favours and then charge ppl....

Good luck in your sales.