When RON95 is expected to be more expensive after lifting of subsidy, I don't think we'll see Euro IV in 2020.
RON95 EURO 4M on 1/1/2020, Do you think it will be implemented?
RON95 EURO 4M on 1/1/2020, Do you think it will be implemented?
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Dec 5 2019, 08:51 AM
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#1
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When RON95 is expected to be more expensive after lifting of subsidy, I don't think we'll see Euro IV in 2020.
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Dec 5 2019, 02:40 PM
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#2
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4,502 posts Joined: Jul 2010 |
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Dec 5 2019, 02:51 PM
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#3
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QUOTE(MR_alien @ Dec 5 2019, 02:44 PM) it's just a process Euro 3M isn't Euro 4M, so I'm not sure if you can compare the cost of producing 3M with that of 4M.in long term, should be no difference at all if it's way more expensive, thn why BHP still sell at same price plus the facilities is already being built + our neighboring countries have all moved to euro 5 already(although some uses RON92) If Euro 4M is not more expensive, why won't the oil companies start offering at same price? When you remove more sulphur from gasoline, you need extra treating facility (Merox, Merichem or whatever). You need caustic solution (NaOH) or whatever the new technology requires. The spent caustic has to be regenerated and not all its strength can be recovered so you need to top up with fresh caustic solution all the time. Then you have to recover the sulphur and dispose of the sulphur. These need additional CAPEX (new vessels, pumps, pipings) and OPEX (electricity to run the pumps, caustic solution procurement, etc) |
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Dec 5 2019, 04:37 PM
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#4
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QUOTE(MR_alien @ Dec 5 2019, 03:38 PM) it's just a process I don't understand your first paragraph. Mind explaining?we never start offering is because all our factory standard is still under 2m in order to start selling 4m or 5...all the equipment has to be upgraded/brand new it's never more expensive or cheap, they won't know because it's just a process for them(filter oil) but in order to do that, they need new equipment since ours are stuck at 2m but the 4M's factory is built...so they can start process out euro 4m fuel problem with malaysia is, we never future proof anything...not just O&G....other industry included when time to upgrade, the whole thing needs to be replaced entirely and "that" cost alot of money which is why people feel like it's expensive As I've mentioned, whenever you need to produce a fuel with higher specifications, your cost increases. Take gasoil 10ppm sulphur for example. You need to run your desulphuriser at more severe operating conditions (higher WABT in reactor) which reduces catalyst life and consumes more hydrogen. Higher energy is required to drive fresh hydrogen and recycle gas compressors, not to mention the need for higher hydrogen gas. Sure, your equipment may be up to spec, but your energy and maintenance bills increase, with possibility of lower run length between unit turnaround. I cannot agree with your last paragraph. It takes money to future proof any plants. If you build a new gasoil desulphuriser today, will you cater for the specification expected in the near future, or do you look 30 years ahead and go for a plant that can do zero ppm of sulphur at the same run length? You'll need bigger reactor, bigger furnace, bigger compressors. And when you run at 10ppm mode, you're underitilizing your capex and possibly not operating efficiently. There's a process called debottlenecking where you upgrade the plant when it's necessary. Or sometimes you build a new plant because it's more economical. An example is the Hijau project by then- Shell PD. |
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Dec 6 2019, 09:38 AM
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#5
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QUOTE(MR_alien @ Dec 5 2019, 04:52 PM) so does this mean every country in this world is doing it wrongly? Q1: What new machinery are you referring to? and we're the only ones doing it correctly??...and should maintain at 2m? our cost can only be based on the new machinery already because instead of upgrade....we need a new plant to product 4m fuel which is already being build sometimes i wonder, why other countries especially our neighboring countries can while we can't because somehow everything is just wrong last time slogan is malaysia boleh, now it seem everybody boleh...we tak boleh instead cost will surely be increased but by how much?...there is also no point buying a euro 5 compliant car/engine but we can only pump 2m fuel into it...isn't it?(this part is same as your concept of "underutilizing" as well) Q2: Did I say we're right to maintain Euro 2M gasoline usage in Malaysia? Bro, if you don't agree that it's more expensive to produce Euro4M vs 2M, there is nothing I can say anymore. Going by your logic, every country should only use diesel with 10ppm sulphur spec, because the additional cost is negligible compared to 500ppm spec diesel? Q3: You still haven't enlightened me on what you mean by existing machinery which I asked earlier. You buy Euro 5/6 compliant car because the manufacturers don't provide lower compliance one. If you buy a car without knowing what fuel it requires Idk what to say. This is what I mean by it's stupid to think too far ahead in my earlier reply to you when you commented our refineries don't plan ahead. Do you buy the expensive Euro 5/6 car now because in future you may have Euro 5/6 compliant fuel in Malaysia? Or you'll upgrade or buy new car when you have the fuel in future? |
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Dec 6 2019, 09:49 AM
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#6
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QUOTE(alvintcn @ Dec 5 2019, 06:16 PM) Definitely will incur higher cost to produce Euro 4M, buy does it means that the gov can always give this excuse to delay and delay until don't know when?! The price of existing RON95 will be floated next month (supposedly), and it's going to increase monthly. Already reeling from Tg Pial election results, the last thing I'd do if I were gomen is to antagonize the people further by introducing a more expensive fuel that people think brings no tangible benefits.Just tell us the actual reason for the delay, make a plan and stick with it damn it! Most motoring Joes are impartial the sulphur content of the fuel they use. Only price matters. At the moment, certain basic safety features in cars like ESC are not made mandatory (supposed to start in June 2018). |
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Dec 6 2019, 10:51 AM
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#7
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QUOTE(isr25 @ Dec 6 2019, 10:32 AM) It shouldn’t be more expensive. When RON97 EURO 4M was introduced, there wasn’t any price hikes. Previously it was also EURO 2M. I’m sure it’ll be costlier to manufacture, but in the long run, it wouldn’t amount to much. The lowering of sulphur from 500ppm to 50ppm.. lowering of vapour pressure (need to blend with more low-RVP alkylate?) and lower benzene (higher benzene usually means higher RON from reforming, so it probably has to go to another splitting process to reduce benzene). All this needs extra operating cost afaik.If gomen can intro it at the same price, it will indeed be a great news. |
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Dec 12 2019, 04:34 PM
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#8
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Great news. Hopefully no u turn or increase in price of more than 10 sen.
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Dec 12 2019, 06:11 PM
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#9
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Dec 27 2019, 09:52 AM
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#10
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4,502 posts Joined: Jul 2010 |
QUOTE(boxer07 @ Dec 26 2019, 11:48 PM) LOL. Just leave here la. Why so fxcking hot. Lol. Tcss Not 100% coal. And power plants are much more efficient than car engines when it comes to generating electricity. If we're talking about CO2 and SO2 pollutions, PHEV car wins. Other -ve aspects of phev, is another story.Phev? Cheh.mostly We use coal to generate electricity. Who is not environmental friendly. Phuiii |
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