Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 Volvo Xc90 and bmw x5 owners, Volvo Xc90 and bmw x5 owner feedback

views
     
TSmavericko
post Nov 22 2019, 08:17 AM, updated 5y ago

New Member
*
Newbie
28 posts

Joined: Jan 2019
Hi All, I am considering buying a used volvo Xc90 or used BMW x5. As both are phev models, can I ask existing owners for feedback on the car performance.

1. Do the batteries become considerably weaker after 3cyears of use.

2. How is the handling of the car given its bulky. Is the nvh decent?

3. Does one need to charge batteries every day to prolong it's life. What happens if one cannot charge for a few days, or only charge occasionally.

4. Any way to check what the current battery condition is before I buy the vehicle because I hear most owners may not really charge it often and just use on petrol.

5. Would you know the cost of battery replacement, heartd it's in excess of RM 45k.

Many thanks for your feedback.


System Error Message
post Nov 22 2019, 11:00 AM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,781 posts

Joined: Jul 2010
for BMW the performance is higher, but not worth the price and maintenance over the xc90. Go with the xc90.

I dont own a car but i can tell you about them as many things about them are pretty obvious.

1) Batteries will lose about 10% of their capacity after 3 years for lithium, less for NIMH. Expect to change your batteries 5 years for lithium, 10 years for NIMH.

2) both handling is decent, The BMW is nicer to drive.
3)its not about charging the batteries, its about how much you use them. If your battery is 1KWh for lithium ion, they will degrade after using and charging 500KWh, thats what the 500 charge cycles mean, not in a sense of keeping them charged or not.
4), no way to check, only estimate with math like i do. However if you have an OB2 scan tool you can see how many cycles for the battery.

5) for BMW yes its in excess of that, because the germans like to rip off the rich thanks to their fake branding and image. Other car companies typically cost below rm 20k, usually above 10k.
TSmavericko
post Nov 22 2019, 12:33 PM

New Member
*
Newbie
28 posts

Joined: Jan 2019
QUOTE(System Error Message @ Nov 22 2019, 11:00 AM)
for BMW the performance is higher, but not worth the price and maintenance over the xc90. Go with the xc90.

I dont own a car but i can tell you about them as many things about them are pretty obvious.

1) Batteries will lose about 10% of their capacity after 3 years for lithium, less for NIMH. Expect to change your batteries 5 years for lithium, 10 years for NIMH.

2) both handling is decent, The BMW is nicer to drive.
3)its not about charging the batteries, its about how much you use them. If your battery is 1KWh for lithium ion, they will degrade after using and charging 500KWh, thats what the 500 charge cycles mean, not in a sense of keeping them charged or not.
4), no way to check, only estimate with math like i do. However if you have an OB2 scan tool you can see how many cycles for the battery.

5) for BMW yes its in excess of that, because the germans like to rip off the rich thanks to their fake branding and image. Other car companies typically cost below rm 20k, usually above 10k.
*
Hi many thanks for your detailed response, very helpful indeed. I hadn't thought about the number of charge cycles possible for the battery pack. No wonder most owners are trying to sell their cars around the 3 year mark. By that logic it may be a good idea to go for a car which has done lesser mileage vs a car that may be a newer car but with mileage as more mileage means possibly more battery usage.

To your earlier point, both x5 and Xc90 come with 9-kWh or 9.2 kWh lithium-ion battery. So are we saying these batteries will have 500 charge cycles or how would we know how many cycles can these batteries be charged.

To check battery capacity sometimes I find people saying on full charge the car can run 20km whereas a new car was supposed to have a full capacity of 30k. So that may be a way to estimate the batteries degradation? Is my understanding correct?

Many thanks for your insight.

BigMan123
post Nov 22 2019, 02:12 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,426 posts

Joined: Oct 2010
QUOTE(mavericko @ Nov 22 2019, 12:33 PM)
Hi many thanks for your detailed response,  very helpful indeed.  I hadn't thought about the number of charge cycles possible for the battery pack.  No wonder most owners are trying to sell their cars around the 3 year mark.  By that logic it may be a good idea to go for a car which has done lesser mileage vs a car that may be a newer car but with mileage as more mileage means possibly more battery usage. 

To your earlier point, both x5 and Xc90 come with 9-kWh or 9.2 kWh lithium-ion battery.  So are we saying these batteries will have 500 charge cycles or how would we know how many cycles can these batteries be charged. 

To check battery capacity sometimes I find people saying on full charge the car can run 20km whereas a new car was supposed to have a full capacity of 30k. So that may be a way to estimate the batteries degradation? Is my understanding correct?

Many thanks for your insight.
*
Look at iPhone battery. After 2.5 years it’s close to dead. Any batteries works the same way...

System Error Message
post Nov 22 2019, 03:36 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,781 posts

Joined: Jul 2010
QUOTE(mavericko @ Nov 22 2019, 12:33 PM)
Hi many thanks for your detailed response,  very helpful indeed.  I hadn't thought about the number of charge cycles possible for the battery pack.  No wonder most owners are trying to sell their cars around the 3 year mark.  By that logic it may be a good idea to go for a car which has done lesser mileage vs a car that may be a newer car but with mileage as more mileage means possibly more battery usage. 

To your earlier point, both x5 and Xc90 come with 9-kWh or 9.2 kWh lithium-ion battery.  So are we saying these batteries will have 500 charge cycles or how would we know how many cycles can these batteries be charged. 

To check battery capacity sometimes I find people saying on full charge the car can run 20km whereas a new car was supposed to have a full capacity of 30k. So that may be a way to estimate the batteries degradation? Is my understanding correct?

Many thanks for your insight.
*
the mileage is not equal. for example on highway it would use the engine rather than battery. As i said the best is to see the computer via obd2 port and you can get a scanner cheap if you get one that usex your phone rather than provide its own screen, though its important that it can give all the needed info. Best you can do is estimate, because highway miles is 10x better than city miles, and the price of these cars 2nd hand, if its just the battery to change, thats fine.

The degradation happens after time/cycles, it doesnt mean after 500 cycles you gotta change the battery, just battery will have reduced capacity after. Always assume for a a used hybrid that the battery will need to be changed after you buy it (same for electric). Its like with regular ICE cars, assume spark plugs, belt, oil all need to be changed, you catch the owner on that in servicing history, and you can negotiate it down.
Dont forget to include tyres too.

This post has been edited by System Error Message: Nov 22 2019, 03:36 PM
budang
post Nov 22 2019, 05:41 PM

Enthusiast
*****
Junior Member
960 posts

Joined: Dec 2012


QUOTE(System Error Message @ Nov 22 2019, 11:00 AM)
for BMW the performance is higher, but not worth the price and maintenance over the xc90. Go with the xc90.

I dont own a car but i can tell you about them as many things about them are pretty obvious.

1) Batteries will lose about 10% of their capacity after 3 years for lithium, less for NIMH. Expect to change your batteries 5 years for lithium, 10 years for NIMH.

2) both handling is decent, The BMW is nicer to drive.
3)its not about charging the batteries, its about how much you use them. If your battery is 1KWh for lithium ion, they will degrade after using and charging 500KWh, thats what the 500 charge cycles mean, not in a sense of keeping them charged or not.
4), no way to check, only estimate with math like i do. However if you have an OB2 scan tool you can see how many cycles for the battery.

5) for BMW yes its in excess of that, because the germans like to rip off the rich thanks to their fake branding and image. Other car companies typically cost below rm 20k, usually above 10k.
*
How is the X5 40e having higher performance than the XC90 T8?
TSmavericko
post Nov 22 2019, 06:09 PM

New Member
*
Newbie
28 posts

Joined: Jan 2019
QUOTE(System Error Message @ Nov 22 2019, 03:36 PM)
the mileage is not equal. for example on highway it would use the engine rather than battery. As i said the best is to see the computer via obd2 port and you can get a scanner cheap if you get one that usex your phone rather than provide its own screen, though its important that it can give all the needed info. Best you can do is estimate, because highway miles is 10x better than city miles, and the price of these cars 2nd hand, if its just the battery  to change, thats fine.

The degradation happens after time/cycles, it doesnt mean after 500 cycles you gotta change the battery, just battery will have reduced capacity after. Always assume for a a used hybrid that the battery will need to be changed after you buy it (same for electric). Its like with regular ICE cars, assume spark plugs, belt, oil all need to be changed, you catch the owner on that in servicing history, and you can negotiate it down.
Dont forget to include tyres too.
*
Thanks, really appreciate the guidance. Would you say changes needed in spark plug, belt etc even for 3 year old cars that are supposedly still with 2 years warranty left? Also anything that one should look for in service history, any red flags one should look out for. Sorry for the questions, grateful for your and others advice.

timidandslow
post Nov 22 2019, 09:58 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
80 posts

Joined: Nov 2019
QUOTE(BigMan123 @ Nov 22 2019, 02:12 PM)
Look at iPhone battery. After 2.5 years it’s close to dead. Any batteries works the same way...
*
mobile phone typically experience 1 full charge cycle daily. does the car experience that ?

QUOTE(System Error Message @ Nov 22 2019, 11:00 AM)
for BMW the performance is higher, but not worth the price and maintenance over the xc90. Go with the xc90.

*
this is wrong. the x5 performance is inferior to xc90.
System Error Message
post Nov 22 2019, 10:42 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,781 posts

Joined: Jul 2010
QUOTE(budang @ Nov 22 2019, 05:41 PM)
How is the X5 40e having higher performance than the XC90 T8?
*
QUOTE(timidandslow @ Nov 22 2019, 09:58 PM)
mobile phone typically experience 1 full charge cycle daily. does the car experience that ?
this is wrong. the x5 performance is inferior to xc90.
*
BMW usually makes performant cars, especially since its the 5 series. However irregardless of performance they cost so much more to maintain.
System Error Message
post Nov 22 2019, 10:52 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,781 posts

Joined: Jul 2010
QUOTE(mavericko @ Nov 22 2019, 12:33 PM)
Hi many thanks for your detailed response,  very helpful indeed.  I hadn't thought about the number of charge cycles possible for the battery pack.  No wonder most owners are trying to sell their cars around the 3 year mark.  By that logic it may be a good idea to go for a car which has done lesser mileage vs a car that may be a newer car but with mileage as more mileage means possibly more battery usage. 

To your earlier point, both x5 and Xc90 come with 9-kWh or 9.2 kWh lithium-ion battery.  So are we saying these batteries will have 500 charge cycles or how would we know how many cycles can these batteries be charged. 

To check battery capacity sometimes I find people saying on full charge the car can run 20km whereas a new car was supposed to have a full capacity of 30k. So that may be a way to estimate the batteries degradation? Is my understanding correct?

Many thanks for your insight.
*
Read the manual and pick out the parts that need to be replaced/serviced, some things arent in the manual like tyres. So 3 years is too soon for tyres as you look at thread depth and age (6 years, whichever comes first). In the case of 2nd hand cars, always assume that its being sold because seller is passing on high maintenance cost to buyer and that something expensive needs to be serviced soon but isnt known to the would be buyer (car drives fine, no signs of it, but 200km later breaks after bought because of part that needs to be serviced), basically just look out for this. Hence why the manual (can be google searched, but forms a big part of the value of the car), and the service manual are very important. Before you go, read the manual beforehand to list what to look for, but also list general stuff like tyres too that wouldnt be in the manual (these have separate guides). Sometimes the problem may not be in the manual but is a flaw in the design that cannot be fixed so researching a modal can help.

if the car is older than 6 years, look at what brands the tyres are and their wear, there is an indicator for the tyre for its age too, but for 3 years not a problem. Try to find that catch before you buy. The fact that the car is under warranty is good, just make sure to get the batteries changed before it is up, so make sure you drive it a lot.

Just remember that despite mileage being a factor for battery use its not a determinate factor. If someone drove a phev from KL to johor every day the mileage will be high, but it may use the battery less than someone who drives 10x less distance in city where the battery is always being used. Typically with such small capacity batteries if they are not NIMH i would complain to the brand if you buy brand new. Demand is important and we need to demand better that other countries get when buying new rather than be a dumping ground.

QUOTE(BigMan123 @ Nov 22 2019, 02:12 PM)
Look at iPhone battery. After 2.5 years it’s close to dead. Any batteries works the same way...
*
The batteries in cars are a lot better than that. If a phone battery is rated for 500 cycles, a car's lithium battery usually goes for about 700 for lithium, double for NIMH. Toyota prius should use NIMH, but if they changed to lithium thats worse as in other countries they use NIMH which lasts twice as long as lithium, but less capacity.
19 Degree South
post Nov 23 2019, 09:18 AM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,480 posts

Joined: Oct 2012
QUOTE(budang @ Nov 22 2019, 05:41 PM)
How is the X5 40e having higher performance than the XC90 T8?
*
Hey...don't question a professor la! Don't own car but can give long theory! Lmfao!
TSmavericko
post Nov 23 2019, 10:01 AM

New Member
*
Newbie
28 posts

Joined: Jan 2019
Thanks for all your inputs, very helpful indeed.
System Error Message
post Nov 23 2019, 08:58 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,781 posts

Joined: Jul 2010
QUOTE(19 Degree South @ Nov 23 2019, 09:18 AM)
Hey...don't question a professor la!  Don't own car but can give long theory! Lmfao!
*
rather i give the direction given from the industry. its shocking that we get the short end of the stick, since cars in malaysia are exceedingly more expensive compared to other countries after you factor in taxes, income, etc. Even the difference in gas prices does not help for a 10 year ownership.
TSmavericko
post Nov 24 2019, 05:05 PM

New Member
*
Newbie
28 posts

Joined: Jan 2019
Any Xc90 or Xc60 owners feel that the breaks are too hard, one needs to really press hard to get any response from the breaks. I've test driven a new Xc60 and it's the same. Wonder why?
SUSAllnGap
post Nov 24 2019, 10:51 PM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



The only phev that is safe to buy are these, lexus, Toyota and Honda.
The rest of it the reliability is unknown and the battery costs so much more. Like C300 costs 90k while 2nd hand car value is only 120k, LOL

Perhaps you could call to Singapore to enquire about the battery themselves as their parts price will be much cheaper than Malaysia counterparts.

As usual our SC will charge upward of 2x + 10% worth labours on the battery.

Given that, the last thing I want to touch is a luxury hybrid vehicle

This post has been edited by AllnGap: Nov 24 2019, 10:53 PM
timidandslow
post Nov 24 2019, 11:08 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
80 posts

Joined: Nov 2019
QUOTE(AllnGap @ Nov 24 2019, 10:51 PM)
Like C300 costs 90k while 2nd hand car value is only 120k, LOL

*
there is no c300 in Malaysia.
SUSAllnGap
post Nov 24 2019, 11:21 PM

[ Modding with Passion(tm) ]
*******
Senior Member
4,561 posts

Joined: Jan 2003
From: Penangites



QUOTE(timidandslow @ Nov 24 2019, 11:08 PM)
there is no c300 in Malaysia.
*
Sorry it's E300.
TSmavericko
post Nov 26 2019, 10:55 PM

New Member
*
Newbie
28 posts

Joined: Jan 2019
Guys how often does one need to charge the batteries, whether x5 or Xc90. What of one can only charge via cable once a week. Is it worth the expense given running costs on petrol only will be very high and I hear that charging while driving, braking cannot exceed 50%.
thxxht
post Nov 27 2019, 09:14 AM

Casual
***
Junior Member
356 posts

Joined: Oct 2008
Charge it everyday, your garage should have a power outlet. Never let a li-on battery go to zero, it will reduce lifespan even more. If the battery is zero the car will simply not use it and use the petrol engine, you'll have a dead weight on the car and higher fuel consumption, especially on city stop and go traffic.
4WD_er
post Nov 27 2019, 09:32 AM

Casual
***
Junior Member
459 posts

Joined: Aug 2018


QUOTE(mavericko @ Nov 26 2019, 10:55 PM)
Guys how often does one need to charge the batteries, whether x5 or Xc90.  What of one can only charge via cable once a week.  Is it worth the expense given running costs on petrol only will be very high and I hear that charging while driving,  braking cannot exceed 50%.
*
My uncle does it, he never bothers to charge his X5 hybrid after the 1st month of ownership, he said the FC is quite high at 8-9km/L on normal driving. On highway, about 11+km/L.

As for whether that will kill the battery faster, it's not yet known as his car is about 3 years old by now. But then again, since he never bother to charge the battery, if he can still use the car as normal without having to replace the hybrid when it spoils, then it is all ok. The only downsize is to carry the heavy weight around.

However, based on my own experience of using A6 hybrid, once the battery dies, the system will halt and owner must replace it.

2 Pages  1 2 >Top
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0160sec    0.31    5 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 29th March 2024 - 08:44 PM