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> Malaysia's Human rights, or lack of it, How good is Malaysia upholding it

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TSramz
post Nov 9 2019, 06:50 AM

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QUOTE(seventwo @ Nov 9 2019, 05:53 AM)
Human right. biggrin.gif
Tak tahu lah TS ni tahu ke tak, diorang kena raid sebab ada yang mengadu. Meaning dia dah ganggu ketenteraman awam. Orang awam ada rights juga kan? hmm.gif
And lagi satu, 2 dpd bebudak yang kantoi tu adalah positif PLHIV. Hang tahu ke tak?
Dengan adanya aktiviti macam tu, lagilah boleh sebarluaskan virus. Ke tak kisah virus ni tersebar?

Faham tak aku taip dalam Bahasa? biggrin.gif
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Abang Tak faham human rights sebab dah lama hidup tanpanya.

Ok let's say you are right.
1. Raid kerana ada yang mengadu kerana bising (contoh). Ok. Agree. Then charge them for being noisy. But a knock on the door is enough right?

2. HIV positive. Assuming one of them is HIV positive and knows it. Then he should not go around fucking others. I will agree to make it against the law to fuck around if you are HIV positive. This part I agree. But charge him only la. Yeah, but Sharia law must charge gay sex. Then Sharia law is stupid

3. aktiviti macam tu, lagilah boleh sebarluaskan virus. Ke tak kisah virus ni tersebar?
You must differentiate disease prevention and the right to live the way you want. If jalan alor is jalan yang penuh dengan maksiat, you would advice people not to go there (even if you not doing business). But it is still his right if he wants to visit. You must differentiate between people's right and the consequence of them doing it. Do you know being gay, for some, is not a choice? You don't that right? I know that coz I grew up with some gays. You can't make them straight no matter how hard you try. To some, it's genetic. Do you know that?

This post has been edited by ramz: Nov 9 2019, 06:51 AM
zamorin
post Nov 9 2019, 07:18 AM

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QUOTE(kiddokitt @ Nov 9 2019, 12:18 AM)
Stupid idiot to call Islam that. I have reported you. There is a huge difference in me calling liberalism a disease and you calling Islam the same.
he empty tong beating today railing against this country’s laws and anti-gay stance, have you achieved anything?? Nothing, right? Exactly my point from the very beginning. Pathetic.
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There is no difference in you calling liberalism a disease and anyone calling Islam the same. Both are philosophical. Liberalism is a moral philosophy whereas almost all religions are immoral philosophies pretending to be moral.

Why is liberalism a disease? If liberalism is a disease, then religions are far more dangerous than all the lethal epidemic in the world combined. Eradication of which will make this world a far better place.

This post has been edited by zamorin: Nov 9 2019, 11:46 AM
TSramz
post Nov 9 2019, 05:47 PM

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QUOTE(seventwo @ Nov 9 2019, 05:53 AM)
Human right. biggrin.gif

Tak tahu lah TS ni tahu ke tak, diorang kena raid sebab ada yang mengadu. Meaning dia dah ganggu ketenteraman awam. Orang awam ada rights juga kan? hmm.gif Oh btw, there is a probability that those who made the report is from their group as well. Why? Think yourself

And lagi satu, 2 dpd bebudak yang kantoi tu adalah positif PLHIV. Hang tahu ke tak?
Dengan adanya aktiviti macam tu, lagilah boleh sebarluaskan virus. Ke tak kisah virus ni tersebar?
*
Here is some stats for you.

Top 10 happiest country. All are liberal countries. All!
Attached Image
TSramz
post Nov 12 2019, 12:01 PM

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https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/201...natural/1809124

Spear2
post Nov 12 2019, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Nov 12 2019, 12:01 PM)
Malaysia and many other countries don't give a hoot when it comes to human rights contravening their religious beliefs. These are all sinners which the devout and pious love to think they are the speaker and moral standard bearer for God.
TSramz
post Nov 12 2019, 01:45 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Nov 12 2019, 12:45 PM)
Malaysia and many other countries don't give a hoot when it comes to human rights contravening their religious beliefs. These are all sinners which the devout and pious love to think they are the speaker and moral standard bearer for God.
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There are Muslims that say islam gave birth to Human rights. I nearly chocked and died. Not because islam can't be, but it is just isn't in practice. Look at the declaration of Human rights, tell me, Muslims, which article is not islamic? Go ahead, just point out which of the 30 articles. Link below

https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/
QUOTE
Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2.

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

Article 3.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 4.

No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Article 5.

No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Article 6.

Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

Article 7.

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

Article 8.

Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.

Article 9.

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

Article 10.

Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

Article 11.

(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
(2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

Article 12.

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

Article 13.

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

Article 14.

(1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.
(2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

Article 15.

(1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

Article 16.

(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

Article 17.

(1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

Article 18.

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Article 19.

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Article 20.

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

Article 21.

(1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
(2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.
(3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

Article 22.

Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

Article 23.

(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.
(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.
(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.
(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

Article 24.

Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

Article 25.

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

Article 26.

(1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.
(3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

Article 27.

(1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.
(2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

Article 28.

Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.

Article 29.

(1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.
(2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.
(3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

Article 30.

Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.


This post has been edited by ramz: Nov 12 2019, 01:47 PM
zamorin
post Nov 12 2019, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Nov 12 2019, 01:45 PM)
There are Muslims that say islam gave birth to Human rights. I nearly chocked and died. Not because islam can't be, but it is just isn't in practice. Look at the declaration of Human rights, tell me, Muslims, which article is not islamic? Go ahead, just point out which of the 30 articles. Link below

https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/
*
Article 1 itself is not condoned by Islam:

Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.


The spirit of brotherhood only applies to brotherhood in Islam. If slavery is acceptable, then you can't also hold the view that that "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights". It's a contradiction.

------------------------

Article 4.

No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.



Islam/Quran does not prohibit slavery. It supports it as long as the slave is not Muslim (and it is even practiced today from Kuwait to Saudi Arabia)

From: https://www.muslimhope.com/JamesArlandson/S...yInTheQuran.htm

Two categories of women have been excluded from the general command of guarding the private parts: (a) wives, (b) women who are legally in one's possession, i.e. slave-girls. Thus the verse clearly lays down the law that one is allowed to have sexual relation with one's slave-girl as with one's wife, the basis being possession and not marriage. If marriage had been the condition, the slave-girl also would have been included among the wives, and there was no need to mention them separately. (Ibid. p. 241, note 7)

The main point in this section, which Maududi overlooks or refuses to criticize, is that Muhammad himself endorses not only the entire institution of slavery, but also sex between male owners and their female slaves within this institution. But how can he and devout Muslims criticize their prophet without seriously damaging Islam? But Muslims must do this, if they think clearly and critically, and for the good of humanity.

It should be noted that Sura 70:29-30, also revealed in Mecca, uses nearly the identical words as Sura 23:5-6. Men must guard their private parts from everyone but their wives and slave-girls, meaning that men may have sex with both "categories" (Maududi's word).

The Quran in Sura 4:24 says:

And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war) . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 319). (See also Suras 4:3 and 33:50)

Thus, women captives are sometimes forced to marry their Muslim masters, regardless of the marital status of the women. That is, the masters are allowed to have sex with the enslaved human property.

This post has been edited by zamorin: Nov 12 2019, 02:16 PM
TSramz
post Nov 13 2019, 04:53 AM

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QUOTE(zamorin @ Nov 12 2019, 02:10 PM)
Article 1 itself is not condoned by Islam:

Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.


The spirit of brotherhood only applies to brotherhood in Islam. If slavery is acceptable, then you can't also hold the view that that "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights". It's a contradiction.

------------------------

Article 4.

No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Islam/Quran does not prohibit slavery. It supports it as long as the slave is not Muslim (and it is even practiced today from Kuwait to Saudi Arabia)

From: https://www.muslimhope.com/JamesArlandson/S...yInTheQuran.htm

Two categories of women have been excluded from the general command of guarding the private parts: (a) wives, (b) women who are legally in one's possession, i.e. slave-girls. Thus the verse clearly lays down the law that one is allowed to have sexual relation with one's slave-girl as with one's wife, the basis being possession and not marriage. If marriage had been the condition, the slave-girl also would have been included among the wives, and there was no need to mention them separately. (Ibid. p. 241, note 7)

The main point in this section, which Maududi overlooks or refuses to criticize, is that Muhammad himself endorses not only the entire institution of slavery, but also sex between male owners and their female slaves within this institution. But how can he and devout Muslims criticize their prophet without seriously damaging Islam? But Muslims must do this, if they think clearly and critically, and for the good of humanity.

It should be noted that Sura 70:29-30, also revealed in Mecca, uses nearly the identical words as Sura 23:5-6. Men must guard their private parts from everyone but their wives and slave-girls, meaning that men may have sex with both "categories" (Maududi's word).

The Quran in Sura 4:24 says:

And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war) . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 319). (See also Suras 4:3 and 33:50)

Thus, women captives are sometimes forced to marry their Muslim masters, regardless of the marital status of the women. That is, the masters are allowed to have sex with the enslaved human property.
*

the point I'm making is the Human rights declaration is good wholesome stuff. If you challenge the declaration articles, means you are not quite moral. You don't need a religion to tell you it is good wholesome stuff. Unless your religion has been telling you otherwise.

TSramz
post Yesterday, 05:00 PM

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https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/201...over-se/1809625
QUOTE
The three motions required participants to debate whether separate legal systems for religious communities should be allowed in secular democracies; whether moderate Islamic scholars would republish Quran with the removal of contents vulnerable to radical misinterpretation if there was the ability to rewrite the Quran; and a scenario where being homosexual is not a sin in Islam

Stupid again. How are Muslims going to develop rational thinking by not debating this contraversial topics? Why islam scared? The truth always prevails don't you know that? Bring it on should be the attitude.

Something is seriously wrong with Human rights and freedom of expression in Malaysia. Making Malaysia look stupid. Making Malaysians stupid.
Spear2
post Yesterday, 05:32 PM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Nov 14 2019, 05:00 PM)
https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/201...over-se/1809625

Stupid again. How are Muslims going to develop rational thinking by not debating this contraversial topics? Why islam scared? The truth always prevails don't you know that? Bring it on should be the attitude.

Something is seriously wrong with Human rights and freedom of expression in Malaysia. Making Malaysia look stupid. Making Malaysians stupid.
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Sometimes I am amused at the simple obvious solution which is probably heartbreaking for the believers. They try so hard to make the book work, all the tricks a smart lawyer could appreciate but yet with so many holes and headache ... how more hundreds of years before they realize ...

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