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 Interactive Brokers (IBKR), IBKR users, welcome!

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diffyhelman2
post Mar 3 2024, 09:48 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Nov 17 2022, 11:03 PM)
For those of you seeking short-term (1-3 month) ultraliquid USD parking facility in IB, I found several US 1-3 month Treasury bill ETFs like BIL and SGOV.

Assume you adjust SMART routing to VLow (High volume exchange with lowest fee), you can get your trades executed with as low as 0.24 USD instead of the usual "0.35 USD". BIL is liquid but expense ratio is high at 0.14% p.a., SGOV's expense ratio is low but that is due to temporary fee rebate by BLK which would terminate on 30th June 2023 (after which it would be around 0.14-0.15% p.a., on par with BIL). Moreover, SGOV has about 6% asset exposure in its own institutional cash fund which has Treasury floating rate notes and introduces additional counterparty risks with banks like Citi, Credit Agricole etc. So, not truely "risk-free".

I did some IRR calculations and found that you can get returns of about 1.3% p.a. for the 2-month holding period, factoring 30% WHT for the monthly distributions and 0.24-0.35 USD commissions, charged twice (once during purchase, once during sell).

Much lower than contemporary 2-month UST yield, but better than holding everything on cash balance and let IB suck all your interests away I guess. After all, in terms of opportunity costs, there is nothing more "risk-free" than risk-free rates. So, in theory, as long as better than 0% p.a., one should bite. tongue.gif
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Hi would like to ask some clarification.

1.These products are as liquid as cash balance in ibkr in terms of trade turn around? Meaning if i sell today i can use the money in my account to buy stocks soon after? Or do i have to wait for a settlement period?

2. Does the dividend accrues daily by an increase in the NaV and is paid out monthly/ quarterly when it goes ex dividend right?

3. And how did you get only 1.3% annualized? The current t bill should be around 5% and even with a 30% wht you should be getting 3.5% pa? And the dividen eventually gets refunded right?


Reason is I have about a 100k and as you know the first 10k usd doesn’t earn anything while the balance currently earns 4.83%. If BiL is almost as good as cash balance while able to earn 4.8% I’ll put all that money in it while I look for stocks to buy.

This post has been edited by diffyhelman2: Mar 3 2024, 10:14 PM
diffyhelman2
post Mar 4 2024, 12:22 AM

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QUOTE(dwRK @ Mar 3 2024, 11:08 PM)
it is not a bug wink.gif ... there is no auto fx conversion for margin account...

purpose of margin account is to access margin loans if required biggrin.gif ... your sgd/stocks are used as collateral as well as to pay fees if you buy stuffs not in sgd... it is standard practice to convert before buying, or create a link order to execute fx conversion if you don't want to take the margin loan... this is well known and ibkr even describes it in their ibkr campus lessons...

problem is you get some noobs who doesn't know shit making fuss out of own ignorance... anyways mine is margin acc...
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do you get charged any interest? assuming the stocks you buy are not exceeding your margin equity?
diffyhelman2
post Mar 4 2024, 01:51 AM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Mar 3 2024, 10:31 PM)
By the way, if your portfolio size is as big as 100k USD you should seriously consider buying US T-bills directly... it costs 5 USD per trade but given your fund size, the fees are peanuts when expressed as a percentage of the overall investment, thus you get to keep the bulk of returns...
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Got it. Thanks for the tip on t bills. I figure if the fund expense cost is 0.14% then for a usd5 commission i just need to make a purchase that’s greater than 5/0.0014=~$3700 to make the usd5 fee breakeven vs buying BIL.

But BIL makes sense for small amounts and has the added convenience of automatically rolling over vs having to manually roll over every three months?

Also there is not clear info can Google, but if interest rates remain constant, the secondary market price of the T bill should increase slightly everyday, approaching the face value, just like the NAV of BiL right?

This post has been edited by diffyhelman2: Mar 4 2024, 02:27 AM
diffyhelman2
post Mar 4 2024, 01:52 AM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Mar 4 2024, 12:47 AM)
As long as your cash is positive, no interest will be charged by IBKR.
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Got it. Just upgraded my account from cash to margin on ibkr. This means that if I sell a usd bond or t bill or etf the fund is instantly available to buy usd securities right?
diffyhelman2
post Mar 4 2024, 02:16 AM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Feb 28 2024, 06:29 PM)
Having fun with WCRS function on Bloomberg to compute carry trade returns using different currency pair... Look at MYR...  laugh.gif

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this probably explains why our car prices didn't shoot up with inflation. all those jap components actually became cheaper.
diffyhelman2
post Mar 4 2024, 11:25 AM

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QUOTE(Medufsaid @ Mar 4 2024, 10:17 AM)
after reading, my interpretation is if you have spare $XXX that you don't want to put to stocks, buy T bills in multiples of $3700? then the remainder spare, put into $BIL for further optimisation
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My only concern is liquidity issues if you want to liquidate in small amounts (even 3700 seems small when you look at typical bid volumes ). Ie is there a huge spread penalty when trying sell small amounts of T bills. Say tranches of 5k. Will observe more tonight when the bond market opens
diffyhelman2
post Mar 4 2024, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Mar 4 2024, 09:38 AM)
Hehe that's opportunity cost, not really breakeven per se. But yea, that's one way to compare. Another way is to look at an IRR of 4.8x% (for BIL) vs the return of a 4-week T-bill yield of 5.4% minus the 5 USD fee (assume you pay once and hold the T-bill till maturity). I use a 4-week T-bill because the duration of BIL is around 1 month too (0.08 years = 0.96 months).
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Actually I made a mistake, the latest SCE yields for BIL n sgov is only like 0.2% lower than the latest 1 month (maturing April) T bills. That’s surely due to the expense ratio and maybe some premium/ spread. But considering the advantages in liquidity and no need to manage roll over, Bil seems very tempting especially for amounts less than 10k. Only downside is, they withhold 30% of paid dividends for close to a year…

This post has been edited by diffyhelman2: Mar 4 2024, 11:33 AM
diffyhelman2
post Mar 7 2024, 12:52 AM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Mar 4 2024, 11:49 AM)
Yup that's why using IRR is a better way to compare since the 30% WHT refund is taken care of in the cash flow calculation when the IRR is computed. In the end we care about the returns we get and we compare them. Fees can fluctuate.
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I went with BIL. but take note, after researching more, if you do not want to have to wait for your WHT to refund (up to one year opportunity cost), the next best thing seems to be the BOXX non dividend distributing T bill ETF.
TER is ~0.19% up to jan 2025
https://www.morningstar.com/etfs/boxx-promi...-taxable-income

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This post has been edited by diffyhelman2: Mar 7 2024, 12:53 AM
diffyhelman2
post Mar 10 2024, 01:25 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Sep 28 2023, 07:30 PM)
As far as I know, the WHT deductions appear on my IBKR activity statement:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


And previous info from our friend Gwynbleidd confirms this. You can read the posts from here onwards: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=107454178
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Hi i have a question. Does state street publish a list of their qualified interest income funds? For eg if i buy their etf composed of only US corporate bonds it should be a qualified interest income right?

This post has been edited by diffyhelman2: Mar 10 2024, 01:27 PM
diffyhelman2
post Mar 11 2024, 01:06 PM

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QUOTE(dwRK @ Mar 10 2024, 08:53 PM)
corporate bonds are generally taxable
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not quite, see below.
QUOTE(TOS @ Mar 10 2024, 10:05 PM)
I think this is the closest I can find: https://www.ssga.com/library-content/produc...-us-en-cash.pdf

Based on the original PATH act, only 4 of these are qualified for a refund:

1. original issue discount on an obligation payable within 183 days of issuance
2. interest on an obligation in registered form (other than interest on an obligation issued by an obligor in which the RIC is a 10 percent shareholder or interest that does not qualify as portfolio interest)
3. interest on deposits, and
4. interest-related dividends received from other RICs.

Point 1 above is relevant for primary market-issues of 4-week, 12-week,... up to 6-month T-bills. 

If you hold commercial papers (original issues with less than 183 days/6 month of maturities) I suspect it may be eligible for a refund as well.

Anything longer than 6-month generally will be a no.
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thanks, I actually found a more updated list (7 Feb) here

https://www.ssga.com/library-content/produc...eation-2024.pdf

if you look at SPBO (corp bond) 85% of the income is qualified interest, SPHY (junk bond) is 79%. and the average tenure is 4-5 years for their holdings. the part that is not qualified is for those issuers who are non US companies issuing corp debt in the US market.

this makes it very attractive fund for me, as the expense ratio is only 5bp, and effective yield after factoring in a tax drag of 30% for the 20-25% of the porfolio that is not QII is about 5.1-7%.


QUOTE
Anything longer than 6-month generally will be a no.


even corporate long term bond (SPLB) fund is 90% QII.


PS: interestingly even BIL is not 100% QII, 99.7% only. maybe that explains the 0.01 that you didnt get back in refund?

This post has been edited by diffyhelman2: Mar 11 2024, 01:11 PM
diffyhelman2
post Mar 11 2024, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(dwRK @ Mar 11 2024, 01:42 PM)
i am not wrong... smile.gif  corporate bonds or company bonds are generally taxable

you showed a list of qii funds... these funds will have a mixed of taxable corporate bonds and non-taxable bills...

as for bil not 100% qii... because it also holds cash... wink.gif
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80% of this corporate bond fund (SPHY) is non taxable bills? I dont think so

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This post has been edited by diffyhelman2: Mar 11 2024, 01:57 PM
diffyhelman2
post Mar 11 2024, 03:03 PM

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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


I am replying for the benefit of others who might see this, not you specifically.

The link you provided is for tax to US persons in general, not non resident aliens (NRA).

the key difference is portfolio interest exemption for NRA

US companies borrowing and paying interest to foreign persons generally qualify as portfolio interest.

https://www.refi.reit/family-office-investm...enture-capital/

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for US companies borrowing and paying interest to foreign persons, it is considered exempt under this rule (subject to certain conditions). but for foreign companies selling bond in US and paid out to foreigners, no exemption. that is why about 15% of the corporate bond fund is not QII (because they are non US company). I am looking at the detailed holdings for that fund now, and so far can find identify already 7.5% of the fund that would not be QII based on this rule (non US companies).

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This post has been edited by diffyhelman2: Mar 11 2024, 03:08 PM
diffyhelman2
post Mar 13 2024, 04:50 PM

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Big pay wage raises could signal BOJ will finally end negative interest rates. Implications for global interest rates?


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diffyhelman2
post Mar 14 2024, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Sep 18 2021, 10:17 PM)
You need to search Taiwan dividend tax on Malaysia. Ibkr is smart enough to withd hold the correct amount if you fill up your tax country correctly.
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This also applies to Swiss or japanese China etc ADR dividends right?

for eg I search swiss dividend tax on malaysia and get 15% witholding for individuals. so if I buy Nestle ADR I should get the 85% of the dividend amount:

QUOTE
4. Dividends paid by a company which is a resident of Switzerland to a resident of Malaysia may be taxed in Switzerland, and according to the law of Switzerland, but the tax so charged shall not exceed: (a) 5 per cent of the gross amount of the dividends if the recipient is a company (excluding partnership) which holds directly at least 25 percent of the capital of the company paying the dividends; (b) in all other cases, 15 per cent of the gross amount of the dividends.
https://phl.hasil.gov.my/pdf/pdfam/Switzerland.pdf

and China dividend withholding taxs are 10%, so if I buy BABA I should get 90% of the dividend. so far what I posted correct?

This post has been edited by diffyhelman2: Mar 14 2024, 02:08 PM
diffyhelman2
post Mar 14 2024, 02:28 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Mar 14 2024, 02:15 PM)
Swiss is 35%😁
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QUOTE(TOS @ Mar 14 2024, 02:18 PM)
Nope, for Swiss stocks, IBKR will withhold 35% of dividends, you need to submit a refund to Swiss Federal Tax Administration to request for the 20% refund (i.e. 15% tax treatment) by filling up Form 60.

https://www.estv.admin.ch/estv/en/home/inte...f/malaysia.html

You may send the form to FTA once every 3 years (include past 3 years of withholding tax) and you need to visit the local LHDN/IRB office to ask for verification that you are a Malaysia tax resident.

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For Taiwanese stocks like TSMC, default withholding tax rate by IBKR is 21%, you may however claim back 8.5% (i.e. get the 12.5% tax treatment) by writing to the specific local tax office in Taiwan (e.g. Hsinchu 新竹 for TSMC or UMC) and claim back the tax from them.

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[attachmentid=11492933][attachmentid=11492934]
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got it. I was just confused for a moment because of the post from 2021 that said ibkr is smart enough to apply the correct withholding rate according to our malaysian tax status!
diffyhelman2
post Mar 14 2024, 02:44 PM

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QUOTE(Medufsaid @ Mar 14 2024, 02:41 PM)
if it's $BABA it's the same ole 30% WHT? while if it's HK Baba (9988.HK) it's 10% WHT?
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I’m also confused. But no. I think it’s 10% regardless adr or sehk. Because that’s the standard wht rate for China for everyone
diffyhelman2
post Mar 14 2024, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Mar 14 2024, 02:47 PM)
They are smart enough. Form my experience. Canada, Europe, US all with hold correctly.
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But that’s against what you said re: Swiss stock. Because due to our tax treaty with swiss the correct wht rate is 15% not 35%…

Sorry not meant to be confrontational just not a lot of clarity on ADRs wht for Non resident aliens
diffyhelman2
post Mar 14 2024, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Sep 14 2022, 02:24 PM)

Erm. Not sure what you mean by "actively investing". I am a very passive investor, hardly changing anything in my portfolio. I remain invested in Nestle, Novartis (through US ADR) and Roche at the moment. They help me weather the current storm well. Will add more in the future when I have more cash coming in.

You don't need a Swiss bank account to transfer CHF funds if you use IBKR. Just use Wise to first convert the money you have (USD, SGD, MYR, HKD etc.) to CHF and store it in your Wise CHF currency balance, then send the money to IBKR's Swiss bank account (a Credit Suisse account) via the usual steps (initiate a deposit notification at IB first, then transfer the money from your CHF currency balance to the designated Credit Suisse account). You should receive your money and see it reflected in your IB currency balance under an hour. From there, you can buy stocks etc. with the CHF funds deposited. Note Wise will charge you 0.5 CHF for the outbound transfer to IB's Credit Suisse account. That's the only fee involved, aside from any forex spread/charges earlier from your USD/SGD/MYR/HKD conversion to CHF.

Add-on, just saw Ramjade's post: you can use IB's own FX conversion if you already deposited SGD/USD/HKD in IB. Note that there is no SGD/CHF or CHF/SGD currency pair, so you will have to go through at least 2 conversions from SGD to CHF, e.g. SGD -> USD -> CHF. I am not sure if the charges are the same as Wise, but the total cost should be comparable.

The unfavourable exchange rates kicks in when you want to reclaim your Swiss WHT. As SNB pays out your reclaimed money in CHF, you need to have a bank account which can receive CHF. I tried out Dukascopy the other day but the charges are ridiculous... So, I just plan to use CIMB SG to receive the inward remittance. The extra cost is the currency conversion from CHF to SGD which has a spread of about 1.1% (for CIMB SG). But the good thing is there are no minimum charges for the inward telegraphic transfer, so you get to receive nearly all the funds refunded.

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Hi, I lurked around and found this old post as well.

reason I am asking so many questions is because like you, I intend to purchase a swiss stock for the long term but using ADRs. in my case, Nestle ADR (NSRGY).

seeing your old post, have you gone thru the wht claim process of your novartis ADR? did you have to pay any fees other than postage to send documents to Swiss tax office? and what other proof is required other than just LHDN certifying you were a malaysian tax resident? did you need to ask IBKR to furnish a special tax form?

thanks for your response
diffyhelman2
post Mar 14 2024, 04:54 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Mar 14 2024, 04:26 PM)
Last I saw was swiss tax is 35%. I don't think we have treaty with swiss.

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Yes we do have

QUOTE
4. Dividends paid by a company which is a resident of Switzerland to a resident of Malaysia may be taxed in Switzerland, and according to the law of Switzerland, but the tax so charged shall not exceed: (a) 5 per cent of the gross amount of the dividends if the recipient is a company (excluding partnership) which holds directly at least 25 percent of the capital of the company paying the dividends; (b) in all other cases, 15 per cent of the gross amount of the dividends.
https://phl.hasil.gov.my/pdf/pdfam/Switzerland.pdf
diffyhelman2
post Mar 15 2024, 12:16 AM

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QUOTE(TOS @ Mar 14 2024, 11:23 PM)
Try not to purchase Level 1 ADRs which are traded OTC like NSRGY. OTC markets are illiquid during times of crisis and may trade at a huge discount to the underlying parent share in SIX. I will advise you to buy Nestle shares on SIX/European ECNs directly on IBKR. You save the ADR dividend handling fees also.

If you search "Swiss" in this thread you will find a lot of useful posts on reclaiming Swiss dividend taxes. https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=Sear...posts&hl=&st=50

E.g. https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...#entry103087454

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...#entry102601156

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...#entry103923478

The above posts will answer your questions...

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I sold my Novartis ADR last year after the Sandoz spin-off, and given my remaining positions in Nestle and Roche are relatively small, the reclaimed money is relatively small compared to the amount of effort I have to put in. Below is a calculation I did last year (or the year before, can't remember), to give you a sense of the magnitude of returns over the efforts put in to reclaim your Swiss tax...
We are not multi-billion dollar mutual funds... just poor retail investors...
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wow! thanks. and very detailed writeups in the links which I will study. yes I am kinda put off investing in swiss stock especially as they only refund in CHF which is a headache (I have a DBS multi acct). only reason is due to I like nestle. investing in the malaysia nestle not the same...

I guess I should just allocate the fund for nestle into more BRK B then...

PS: I did not know about level 1 ADR problems....before your reply I had just purchased tencent adr which is OTC. I noticed that the commision fee was relatively higher (1.5 bp vs less than 0.8 bp for other US stocks).but I didnt notice any liquidity or large spreads when I was buying.

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