Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

> Mistreatment of China's Uighur, Why China resort to inhumane treatment

views
     
TSramz
post Sep 27 2019, 07:02 PM, updated 2y ago

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...ties-in-china/#

QUOTE
A senior lawyer called on Tuesday for the top United Nations human rights body to investigate evidence that China is murdering members of the Falun Gong spiritual group and harvesting their organs for transplant.

Why does China do this extremely inhumane act? I don't understand. And it's not a small number of people being oppressed. It's 1 to 2 million. What's wrong with China?

TSramz
post Sep 27 2019, 07:36 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(loki @ Sep 27 2019, 07:05 PM)
why u never cover mistreatment of Malaysian minorities? Maybe you can make one like the one Ughyur ones. The minorities oppressed are totalling to more than 8 million?
*
If you look at my postings everywhere, I do. You don't know me well enough, so next time try to ask first. And the topic is not about Malaysia. Go open your own thread and blast away.

I
TSramz
post Sep 27 2019, 08:00 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(puchongite @ Sep 27 2019, 07:23 PM)
We don't know the total truth. We also have many of the Hui Muslim in China who were not oppressed, or at least never faced something as severe as the Uighur. Even within the Uighur Muslim, not all of them are being oppressed. Many of them are also given land to keep their livestock. So why the China only "singled" out a segment of the Muslim and mistreat them ?

I am not surprised that a significant number of people in Uighur already wanting to trigger detachment from the communist government. If these people were indeed involved in actions which involve getting rid of the Chinese government, they might have even already resorted to underground military actions. Is it too much then to lock these people up and reform them ?
*
It's culture genocide. China is doing this to that region because there is a threat of the region being autonomous to the Uighurs. The xinxiang region is where the ambitious silk road will pass through. China is doing this as they predict this region will give problems to its ambition.

But Human rights is being abused here. It's not right.
TSramz
post Sep 27 2019, 08:00 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
Dup

This post has been edited by ramz: Sep 27 2019, 08:01 PM
TSramz
post Oct 9 2019, 07:43 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
Mistreatment is not ok no matter what. For Uighurs case, is something like preemptive strikes on Muslim before they start to organize to be a force that will threaten China's narrative.

But China must learn that should not be the way to handle conflicts. Don't learn from Malaysia.

Must I tell China the right way? Is what I do. Convince Muslims that islam is a false religion. Don't force, don't impose. Do reverse dakwah. That's it. And if there is promotion to violence, haul those people up, not haul up 2 million people, that's not the way.

Morality is a funny thing. If u do something wrong often and prevasively enough, it will start to look acceptable. Then it becomes the new morality standard. So it's very important to condemn it at the first sign of human rights violation. Even in this forum there are people saying it's ok because others are doing it.

Don't take Human rights violations lightly .

This post has been edited by ramz: Oct 9 2019, 09:10 AM
TSramz
post Oct 9 2019, 12:09 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(Spear2 @ Oct 9 2019, 11:47 AM)
I have read a number of articles, some painted China as an evil regime, forcing 1M Uighur population into detention camp similar to Nazi, maybe gassed them to reduce the number or forced abortion to reduce the population etc ..., some reports pointed out the inconsistencies and lack of concrete evidence, and visits by foreign  investigators yielded nothing substantial other than the "education" camps to reduce extremism.

I think the truth is probably somewhere in between. There are some gross exaggeration from the western media, taken from a handful of people who have suffered under the callous and rough mistreatment, dozens of extremist suspects were even put to death and having the stories blown up and viral'ed.

But look at the background. This is China communism coming to age, even the Tiananmen protest 30 years ago was brutally crushed with hundred of deaths. China will not tolerate extremism in any form that departed from central doctrine. That is the dark side of having 30 years bullet train progress elevated 1 billion people out of poverty and abysmal living conditions, instead of the democracy and liberalism suggested by the soft approach in your bolded statement.

Do you think you can convince the Muslims? How many years you need and what tools are at your disposal? It is very likely if you come out in the open and continue your reformation cry, you will be placed in a religious correction center ... smile.gif
*

China is doing the "no nonsense" way. That is against the morality I have been upholding for many years. I can't accept that. It will set president on the accepted morality that authority can bulldoze its way to make things "right' in the name of "preemtive measures". Preemptive measures to violence I agree. But not to ideology. But what if the ideology have violence within? That's a tough call to make. But I stand we still need concrete evidence of the manifested violence it will cause. But I don't think China is doing it on that reason. They just don't want a "political ideology" to flourish. Is like Malays defending their "must always be in power" agenda. Same thing. Which I can't accept.

TSramz
post Oct 9 2019, 07:03 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(Pikichu @ Oct 9 2019, 01:19 PM)
+1 Thank you for sharing the youtube. The comment's in youtube shows one aspect of the reality.
Right, mistreatment is not alright.

On 5th July 2009, riot and chaos by extremists occured. So the initiative is not preemptive.
PRC deploy security force but there were no ends to the violence.
PRC did something few other countries attempted, education.
West called it camps which it does look like it.

The nature of extremist is brainwashing, seclusion and segregation. They would not even consider medicine for the sick.

Fast forward to date, locals especially women can socialize and work in society.
37 states praise XinJiang https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xi...s-idUSKCN1U721X
Mean while rest of the world still dealing with terror. Saudi Arabia amassing war machine over historic levels.

They have a different culture and system. They do not vote and do not use 2 party system. Yet the taught the locals language, law, skills.
They did not teach another religion in the camps. Muslims are still Muslims.

As oppose to a western system in Hong Kong, 2 million are rioting in violence, injuring locals, vandalising facilities, for months now.
Yet HK let them protest and hardly killed 21 dead like in Iraq.

It is good that you voice out the wrongs. Unfortunately extremism and terror continues to exist in the year 2019.
As the youtube Puchongnite shared, some countries still being victim to terror unlike in XinJiang.
It is hard to see back then they burn national flags including MY but today tourist feel safe in XinJiang.

Human rights are important but Malaysia is anti ICERD, so we respect the majority. What happen in XinJiang is solved according to their system.
China is an evil regime. No voting regime. Until they stamp down corruption. Today west continues to propoganda against PRC.
If their system is wrong then there would be riots and civil unrest. Just like Hong Kong which the youth were educated / brainwashed by colonial powers.
To riot in such manner, planning, equipment, they have to be well funded.

PRC knows it cannot impose their system on the world. But they realize how western powers dominate the world. So for them not to be consumed, PRC must survive and thrive. Surely India, Brazil, Africa are not doing anything and Russia has been painted the villain.

Muslims in MY cannot be convinced because the constitution states of it. Neither would I want to try. Respect them as they are. But up to a point where they do not violate others' rights as stated in the constitution.
Would you fight a war in a nonsense way?
Would you make friends with terrorist?
So in dealing with corruption, stern and effective method must be employed. Rule of law.
Employing education to fend off extremism and terror has resulted in what XinJiang has to day.

As the youtube Puchongnite shared, even multiple states were invited to experience the change.
It is not perfect where everyone became rich like Norway. But the extreme thought have been enlighten by education.

In this case it was not a tough call to make. They tried enforcement. Naturally they progress down this path.
After 2019 years why are there still so much terror.... that is the main question.

Malays are forever in power. The monarchy, government, military, police and economy are all controlled so well that even after 60 years, MY fail to achieve high income economy that people are still 'happy'
*

Malaysia was formed with the wrong morality . But I agree there is nothing we can do about it. So let's not harp on it, but instead continue promoting morality based on good principles. But Constitution aside, we must condemn all other discrimination.

TSramz
post Oct 10 2019, 04:34 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(tictac88 @ Oct 9 2019, 07:21 PM)
we can voice out our concerns with human rights issue. but among those who are currently actively campaigning against china now, some of them do not really have human rights as their core concerns. their true aim is actually much worse. they want to destablize a currently otherwise peaceful region. and if this is successful, such human rights issue will pale in comparison to the true terror that is going to happen when the region is in true chaos. just look at syria.
*

I disagree. Human right violations promotes immorality. Terrorism can be dealt without violating Human rights. There is a way without resorting to Human rights abuse.

For example countries that are well known to violate Human rights like Saudi Arabia, iran, Afghanistan, Malaysia don't think they are violating Human rights. Because that's the nature of how morality works. When it is violated pervasively, it becomes the new standard, and is hard to revert back. Just look at Malaysia's racism policy (i.e bumiputera policy). Do you think it will be abolished any time soon? No. Because it is the new morality standard.

We must take Human rights issues seriously. Don't bulldoze it with the hope you will achieve something greater. You won't.

This post has been edited by ramz: Oct 10 2019, 04:35 AM
TSramz
post Oct 21 2019, 10:33 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 21 2019, 10:24 AM)
All countries have some form of supremacy, goes by various names, some official by law, some unofficially, including white privilege, etc
*

only racist will think it is normal to have some form of supremacy.

We are here trying to change the status quo for a better tomorrow, then comes the devil to say "it is normal what"

TSramz
post Oct 21 2019, 02:16 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 21 2019, 02:10 PM)
Birthrights is not racism. It is privileges by entitlement. It is guaranteed by the Constitution and safeguarded by the YDPA. When people like you  do not like  the rule of law, you call it racism.
*
Entitlement means someone is entitled, and someone else is not entitled. Racism in action is exactly that.
TSramz
post Oct 21 2019, 02:48 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 21 2019, 02:41 PM)
It's birthrights. No different than the birthrights of the first born (eg. birthrights in Jacob vs Esau, etc), or a manager's entitlement to a company car, etc, an expatriate's entitlement of housing allowance, etc. This is how a capitalist society works, if you want fairness in all, then go live in a socialist society.
*
Since when capitalist society give rights by race? So in other words you saying the bumis are like managers and non bumis are like Kuli? Good analogy.
TSramz
post Oct 24 2019, 05:24 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 24 2019, 01:44 AM)
Nope, you work hard, you reap the rewards. Nothing is free in this world.

The kuli have their own privileges, there all differ.
*

Ahh. That's the thinking we want from you. Not like some people who prefer to choose their parents in order to reap their birthright rewards.

The Kuli privilege is the ability to work harder and smarter to reap his rewards.

TSramz
post Oct 25 2019, 08:09 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 25 2019, 03:58 AM)
user posted image
*
Say no to Human rights abuse. We are all equal in the eyes of our maker, right? But if u need help, we will help. But it's because u need help, not because it is your birthright.

But of course you won't understand.

Here is the universal declaration of Human rights. Count how many have China and Malaysia abused so far...

For Malaysia, half is a mild estimate.

https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

This post has been edited by ramz: Oct 25 2019, 08:16 AM
TSramz
post Oct 25 2019, 09:21 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(puchongite @ Oct 25 2019, 08:58 AM)
The last point is important.

Those who are detained have to repeatedly watch 're-education' films featuring state appointed Iman who explains 'illegal religious practices' and 'appropriate interpretation of Islam'.

At least in the views of the China government, many of the Uighur are having terrorist mindsets and doing harmful religious practices.

Leaving the discussion of whether the approach taken adequately meets humanity standard aside, I personally think China government is correct in this accessment of the issue. Islam has built in political elements and philosophy, it is easy for it to used to spread different political idealogy than the only allowed political idealogy in the communist China. It is just like in Malaysia, we are not allowed to be involved in any idealogy other than democracy, particularly communism. A government will always defend its political ideology.

But in Malaysia to shout about political Islam is treated as a very righteous thing. Hadi Awang  does that all the time. That is big irony.
*
Hadi has a right to shout about political islam. And somebody has the right to shout about communism is he choose to. Let the best man win. But of course there are limits to the shouting. As long as you don't promote violence, you are free to say it. This is the environment I want to live in. But I know not many share my inspiration.

I am not there to witness how China treat the Muslims. But my sentiments tells me there is definitely Human abuse, and the approach to force re-education also seems not right (I have to look into the details to confirm). Forced re-education to kill promotion of violence is ok, but not to kill the ideology. Although islam scriptures promote violence (so do most major religions btw), but it does not translate to majority of Muslims promoting violence.


TSramz
post Oct 25 2019, 09:30 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(puchongite @ Oct 25 2019, 09:26 AM)
Many of the political Islam directly translate to violence.

Also are sure it is ok to shout about communiy in Malaysia ?
*
Well there are 2 ways to shout. 1. Let's have a khalifah system but let's do this by influencing others. 2. Let's have a khalifah system, force it and threaten those who don't want. I can tolerate the 1st way.

I am talking about the environment I like to live in. Of course Malaysia don't allow communism.
TSramz
post Oct 25 2019, 10:05 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(puchongite @ Oct 25 2019, 09:40 AM)
Political Islam has very big scope. Syariah is political Islam. Apostasy law is one facet of political Islam. And directly translate to inhumanity and violence.

True democracy is messy and slow and many times ineffective.
*
I don't know whether u want to call true democracy.

But I like to live in an environment that is open for the best idea to surface. In Malaysia u can't criticize islam, u can't even promote another religion. You can't talk about apostasy law and how stupid it is except in forums like this (if this forum gets as popular as Facebook, you can't do it either). But if u open up, u must be fair to your enemies too. They have the right to open up too. Of course with some restrictions in place like no promotion to violence, no imposition. Etc.

This environment to me is not messy and ineffective, but the opposite. I don't want to put a label.
TSramz
post Oct 25 2019, 10:25 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(puchongite @ Oct 25 2019, 10:14 AM)
Put yourself in the shoes of the Chinese government, then you will perhaps appreciate better which is more effective in addressing the issues of terrorism in Xinjang, the full humanity and democracy method or the China hardliner method or something else .....
*

I did mention in my earlier post that I am not there to observe. Maybe there is no human rights abuse after all. Maybe those impositions are fake news. But I really doubt so. Anyway I hold judgement for now.

TSramz
post Oct 25 2019, 10:44 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(puchongite @ Oct 25 2019, 10:33 AM)
The China does impose, so that's not fake. Neither the terrorism. Both are true.

In China, as long as you are not involved in other political idealogy, you are generally ok.

Islam is political, so that's why the China is very particular about certain ways of living as a Muslim.
*
I understand China, but I don't agree with the impositions.

To Muslims not all subscribe to political islam. But the ones that do will preach about it. Is it wrong to do that? No. So there will be people like me who will say your idea is stupid. Is fair fight right? In democracy is about influencing. But if u have a fair fight in the influencing game, that's healthy. You lose means I need to brush up, or your idea really sucks!

I do not wish Malaysia to be like China.
TSramz
post Oct 25 2019, 11:18 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(puchongite @ Oct 25 2019, 11:00 AM)
I would say 90% or more Muslim are subscribing to political Islam, many of them doing it without consciously aware of it.
*
Ok how do we fight this idea? There is no way!

Malaysia:
1. won't let other ideology take control coz we got raja and sultans.
2. Cannot propogate other religions, so islam has just stifled the competition at hello.
3. Cannot apostate, meaning islam will never shrink.
4. Cannot criticize, meaning islam will always be the truth, coz nobody is opposing.
4. islam impose on other religions (disguised as race), meaning islam ratio will just continue to grow until we become like saudi.

First we need level playing field. But we won't get that.

Malaysia will forever me a mediocre country, or worst.
TSramz
post Oct 25 2019, 11:26 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,225 posts

Joined: Jan 2009
QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 25 2019, 11:22 AM)
Let me convince you to who I am, I am Alhelmy the Great, you are the cheese cake man, tongkat is fatt choy and if you need to be amused, I can amuse. Convinced enough?
*
I was convinced at hello. Thanks for your clown service.

2 Pages  1 2 >Top
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0259sec    0.92    6 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 3rd August 2021 - 10:32 PM