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> Mistreatment of China's Uighur, Why China resort to inhumane treatment

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TSramz
post Sep 27 2019, 07:02 PM, updated 4w ago

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https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...ties-in-china/#

QUOTE
A senior lawyer called on Tuesday for the top United Nations human rights body to investigate evidence that China is murdering members of the Falun Gong spiritual group and harvesting their organs for transplant.

Why does China do this extremely inhumane act? I don't understand. And it's not a small number of people being oppressed. It's 1 to 2 million. What's wrong with China?

loki
post Sep 27 2019, 07:05 PM

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why u never cover mistreatment of Malaysian minorities? Maybe you can make one like the one Ughyur ones. The minorities oppressed are totalling to more than 8 million?

This post has been edited by loki: Sep 27 2019, 07:09 PM
puchongite
post Sep 27 2019, 07:23 PM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Sep 27 2019, 07:02 PM)
https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...ties-in-china/#
Why does China do this extremely inhumane act? I don't understand. And it's not a small number of people being oppressed. It's 1 to 2 million. What's wrong with China?

*
We don't know the total truth. We also have many of the Hui Muslim in China who were not oppressed, or at least never faced something as severe as the Uighur. Even within the Uighur Muslim, not all of them are being oppressed. Many of them are also given land to keep their livestock. So why the China only "singled" out a segment of the Muslim and mistreat them ?

I am not surprised that a significant number of people in Uighur already wanting to trigger detachment from the communist government. If these people were indeed involved in actions which involve getting rid of the Chinese government, they might have even already resorted to underground military actions. Is it too much then to lock these people up and reform them ?

This post has been edited by puchongite: Sep 27 2019, 07:27 PM
TSramz
post Sep 27 2019, 07:36 PM

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QUOTE(loki @ Sep 27 2019, 07:05 PM)
why u never cover mistreatment of Malaysian minorities? Maybe you can make one like the one Ughyur ones. The minorities oppressed are totalling to more than 8 million?
*
If you look at my postings everywhere, I do. You don't know me well enough, so next time try to ask first. And the topic is not about Malaysia. Go open your own thread and blast away.

I
TSramz
post Sep 27 2019, 08:00 PM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Sep 27 2019, 07:23 PM)
We don't know the total truth. We also have many of the Hui Muslim in China who were not oppressed, or at least never faced something as severe as the Uighur. Even within the Uighur Muslim, not all of them are being oppressed. Many of them are also given land to keep their livestock. So why the China only "singled" out a segment of the Muslim and mistreat them ?

I am not surprised that a significant number of people in Uighur already wanting to trigger detachment from the communist government. If these people were indeed involved in actions which involve getting rid of the Chinese government, they might have even already resorted to underground military actions. Is it too much then to lock these people up and reform them ?
*
It's culture genocide. China is doing this to that region because there is a threat of the region being autonomous to the Uighurs. The xinxiang region is where the ambitious silk road will pass through. China is doing this as they predict this region will give problems to its ambition.

But Human rights is being abused here. It's not right.
TSramz
post Sep 27 2019, 08:00 PM

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Dup

This post has been edited by ramz: Sep 27 2019, 08:01 PM
70U63
post Sep 28 2019, 07:16 AM

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Short reply and another tip to you.
Next time better don't use China Uncensored as your reference. Because it is totally bias against China. They have their own agenda, I don't blame them. Just like what CNN, BBC and other western news report (including those from Germany) when they covered the Xinjiang Riot back in 2009. Most of the Chinese in China (who really care about geopolitics) already knew other those media play the game.

This post has been edited by 70U63: Sep 28 2019, 12:02 PM
alhelmy
post Sep 28 2019, 09:18 AM

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QUOTE(loki @ Sep 27 2019, 07:05 PM)
why u never cover mistreatment of Malaysian minorities? Maybe you can make one like the one Ughyur ones. The minorities oppressed are totalling to more than 8 million?
*
You must be joking about mistreatment of Malaysian minorities. Malaysian minorities are doing so well, always boasting that they are hardworking, earn high salary, calling Malaysian majorities as weak, lazy and unwilling to compete.

The real issue here is Malaysian minorities do not realize how lucky they are in Malaysia and stop complaining about everything, as well as being jealous of the Malaysian majorities.



puchongite
post Sep 28 2019, 09:56 AM

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QUOTE(70U63 @ Sep 28 2019, 07:16 AM)
Short reply and another tip to you.
Next time better don't use China Uncensored as your reference. Because it is totally bias toward China. They have their own agenda, I don't blame them. Just like what CNN, BBC and other western news report (including those from Germany) when they covered the Xinjiang Riot back in 2009. Most of the Chinese in China (who really care about geopolitics) already knew other those media play the game.
*
Do you mean "biased toward" or "biased against" ?

For me, I am not saying those media reporting are totally rubbish but neither we can trust them in full. Very simple, we hear Uighurs were mistreated but we also know not all of them were mistreated. If 1 million Uighurs were mistreated, there are still 10 millions who were not mistreated. This is not a systematic genocide. Vocational training may not be the full truth but indeed it is true some of them do undergo certain amount of vocational training.

This post has been edited by puchongite: Sep 28 2019, 10:17 AM
Pikichu
post Sep 28 2019, 10:24 AM

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The organ harvesting caught my attention.
The news report did not cite evidence merely claims, from London, and China responded; as expected.
With what the west have done to Hong Kong, hard to believe their claims.

XinJiang issue condemn by west but received praised from more countries including a number of Middle East.
People may live in fear, but they were train and taught skills to live in the city.
Germany makes headlines by employing refugees to good use.
So all those condemning only knows how to kill terrorist.
Violence vs peace, I prefer the latter.

Where are extremists coming from?

Something that Al Jazeera reports may have covered.
Usually brainwashing happens in one place then send elsewhere to cause chaos.
Then the media attention is not directed at the source.

Just like MY being brainwash, then cybertroopers sent out to spread lies and incite hatred.
While master minds enjoy a life of wealth and luxury in PWTC.
zamorin
post Sep 28 2019, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Sep 27 2019, 08:00 PM)
It's culture genocide. China is doing this to that region because there is a threat of the region being autonomous to the Uighurs. The xinxiang region is where the ambitious silk road will pass through. China is doing this as they predict this region will give problems to its ambition.

But Human rights is being abused here. It's not right.
*
Same thing is happening in Kashmir now after the revocation of Article 370 by the Indian government. 9 million Kashmiri Muslims under curfew and countless human rights violation with 900,000 troops to enforce it. They call it the "worlds's largest democracy".

Still, China or India are no match compared to the champion of human rights violation, torture and mass murder - U.S.A.

-------------------

“The greatest purveyor of violence in the world : My own Government, I cannot be Silent.” - Martin Luther King Jr.

This post has been edited by zamorin: Sep 28 2019, 10:52 AM
70U63
post Sep 28 2019, 12:06 PM

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Sorry, it should be biased against.
In term of the number of the people, I seriously don't trust the number given by the western press as they don't show any evidence (unless they got the internal info). Same thing applied to the 2 mil protesters in HK. And yes we know bigger number can use to support the movement.

QUOTE(puchongite @ Sep 28 2019, 09:56 AM)
Do you mean "biased toward" or "biased against" ?

For me, I am not saying those media reporting are totally rubbish but neither we can trust them in full. Very simple, we hear Uighurs were mistreated but we also know not all of them were mistreated. If 1 million Uighurs were mistreated, there are still 10 millions who were not mistreated. This is not a systematic genocide. Vocational training may not be the full truth but indeed it is true some of them do undergo certain amount of vocational training.
*
puchongite
post Sep 28 2019, 04:14 PM

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QUOTE(70U63 @ Sep 28 2019, 12:06 PM)
Sorry, it should be biased against.
In term of the number of the people, I seriously don't trust the number given by the western press as they don't show any evidence (unless they got the internal info). Same thing applied to the 2 mil protesters in HK. And yes we know bigger number can use to support the movement.
*
I think there are a few things which the communist government will never tolerate :-

1. Involve in terrorist activities.
2. Involve in spreading the idea of independence.
3. Involve in political ideology other than the party of communist.

Non negotiable.
zamorin
post Sep 29 2019, 12:35 AM

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QUOTE(70U63 @ Sep 28 2019, 12:06 PM)
Sorry, it should be biased against.
In term of the number of the people, I seriously don't trust the number given by the western press as they don't show any evidence (unless they got the internal info). Same thing applied to the 2 mil protesters in HK. And yes we know bigger number can use to support the movement.
*
That's like saying only 50,000 people attended the Berish Rally. Where is your evidence that it was less to refute it? Not that I trust western press.

Wasn't the Hong Kong demonstration big enough to determine their stance?

This post has been edited by zamorin: Sep 29 2019, 12:36 AM
70U63
post Sep 29 2019, 07:11 AM

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Rueters already used technology to prove that there was no 2mil protesters on the street. It doesn't matter whether 50k or 2mil, when you have populism under pretext of democracy, u habis.


QUOTE(zamorin @ Sep 29 2019, 12:35 AM)
That's like saying only 50,000 people attended the Berish Rally. Where is your evidence that it was less to refute it? Not that I trust western press.

Wasn't the Hong Kong demonstration big enough to determine their stance?
*
puchongite
post Sep 29 2019, 02:31 PM

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Xinjiang - the China's perspective




touristking
post Sep 29 2019, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Sep 27 2019, 12:02 PM)
https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...ties-in-china/#
Why does China do this extremely inhumane act? I don't understand. And it's not a small number of people being oppressed. It's 1 to 2 million. What's wrong with China?

*
China mistreat people. The American also mistreat people. So?

zamorin
post Sep 29 2019, 06:03 PM

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QUOTE(70U63 @ Sep 29 2019, 07:11 AM)
Rueters already used technology to prove that there was no 2mil protesters on the street. It doesn't matter whether 50k or 2mil, when you have populism under pretext of democracy, u habis.
*
Since when did populism become a pretext to democracy?

So what is the figure (according to you) that matters that their concerns are genuine? and it is genuine.

---------------------

populism
/ˈpɒpjlɪz(ə)m/
noun
a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.

This post has been edited by zamorin: Sep 29 2019, 06:07 PM
Pikichu
post Oct 8 2019, 02:00 PM

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QUOTE(touristking @ Sep 29 2019, 04:41 PM)
China mistreat people. The American also mistreat people. So?
*
So it is ok to mistreat you biggrin.gif LOL
TSramz
post Oct 9 2019, 07:43 AM

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Mistreatment is not ok no matter what. For Uighurs case, is something like preemptive strikes on Muslim before they start to organize to be a force that will threaten China's narrative.

But China must learn that should not be the way to handle conflicts. Don't learn from Malaysia.

Must I tell China the right way? Is what I do. Convince Muslims that islam is a false religion. Don't force, don't impose. Do reverse dakwah. That's it. And if there is promotion to violence, haul those people up, not haul up 2 million people, that's not the way.

Morality is a funny thing. If u do something wrong often and prevasively enough, it will start to look acceptable. Then it becomes the new morality standard. So it's very important to condemn it at the first sign of human rights violation. Even in this forum there are people saying it's ok because others are doing it.

Don't take Human rights violations lightly .

This post has been edited by ramz: Oct 9 2019, 09:10 AM
Spear2
post Oct 9 2019, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Oct 9 2019, 07:43 AM)
Mistreatment is not ok no matter what. For Uighurs case, is something like preemptive strikes on Muslim before they start to organize to be a force that will threaten China's narrative.

But China must learn that should not be the way to handle conflicts. Don't learn from Malaysia.

Must I tell China the right way? Is what I do. Convince Muslims that islam is a false religion. Don't force, don't impose. Do reverse dakwah. That's it. And if there is promotion to violence, haul those people up, not haul up 2 million people, that's not the way.

Morality is a funny thing. If u do something wrong often and prevasively enough, it will start to look acceptable. Then it becomes the new morality standard. So it's very important to condemn it at the first sign of human rights violation. Even in this forum there are people saying it's ok because others are doing it.

Don't take Human rights violations lightly .
*
I have read a number of articles, some painted China as an evil regime, forcing 1M Uighur population into detention camp similar to Nazi, maybe gassed them to reduce the number or forced abortion to reduce the population etc ..., some reports pointed out the inconsistencies and lack of concrete evidence, and visits by foreign investigators yielded nothing substantial other than the "education" camps to reduce extremism.

I think the truth is probably somewhere in between. There are some gross exaggeration from the western media, taken from a handful of people who have suffered under the callous and rough mistreatment, dozens of extremist suspects were even put to death and having the stories blown up and viral'ed.

But look at the background. This is China communism coming to age, even the Tiananmen protest 30 years ago was brutally crushed with hundred of deaths. China will not tolerate extremism in any form that departed from central doctrine. That is the dark side of having 30 years bullet train progress elevated 1 billion people out of poverty and abysmal living conditions, instead of the democracy and liberalism suggested by the soft approach in your bolded statement.

Do you think you can convince the Muslims? How many years you need and what tools are at your disposal? It is very likely if you come out in the open and continue your reformation cry, you will be placed in a religious correction center ... smile.gif

TSramz
post Oct 9 2019, 12:09 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Oct 9 2019, 11:47 AM)
I have read a number of articles, some painted China as an evil regime, forcing 1M Uighur population into detention camp similar to Nazi, maybe gassed them to reduce the number or forced abortion to reduce the population etc ..., some reports pointed out the inconsistencies and lack of concrete evidence, and visits by foreign  investigators yielded nothing substantial other than the "education" camps to reduce extremism.

I think the truth is probably somewhere in between. There are some gross exaggeration from the western media, taken from a handful of people who have suffered under the callous and rough mistreatment, dozens of extremist suspects were even put to death and having the stories blown up and viral'ed.

But look at the background. This is China communism coming to age, even the Tiananmen protest 30 years ago was brutally crushed with hundred of deaths. China will not tolerate extremism in any form that departed from central doctrine. That is the dark side of having 30 years bullet train progress elevated 1 billion people out of poverty and abysmal living conditions, instead of the democracy and liberalism suggested by the soft approach in your bolded statement.

Do you think you can convince the Muslims? How many years you need and what tools are at your disposal? It is very likely if you come out in the open and continue your reformation cry, you will be placed in a religious correction center ... smile.gif
*

China is doing the "no nonsense" way. That is against the morality I have been upholding for many years. I can't accept that. It will set president on the accepted morality that authority can bulldoze its way to make things "right' in the name of "preemtive measures". Preemptive measures to violence I agree. But not to ideology. But what if the ideology have violence within? That's a tough call to make. But I stand we still need concrete evidence of the manifested violence it will cause. But I don't think China is doing it on that reason. They just don't want a "political ideology" to flourish. Is like Malays defending their "must always be in power" agenda. Same thing. Which I can't accept.

Spear2
post Oct 9 2019, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Oct 9 2019, 12:09 PM)
China is doing the "no nonsense" way. That is against the morality I have been upholding for many years. I can't accept that. It will set president on the accepted morality that authority can bulldoze its way to make things "right' in the name of "preemtive measures". Preemptive measures to violence I agree. But not to ideology. But what if the ideology have violence within? That's a tough call to make. But I stand we still need concrete evidence of the manifested violence it will cause. But I don't think China is doing it on that reason. They just don't want a "political ideology" to flourish. Is like Malays defending their "must always be in power" agenda. Same thing. Which I can't accept.
*
This is the kind of moral dilemma one has to face. Consequentialism versus deontology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deontological_ethics

Star Trek : the needs of many outweigh the need of a few smile.gif
Pikichu
post Oct 9 2019, 01:19 PM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Sep 29 2019, 02:31 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
*
+1 Thank you for sharing the youtube. The comment's in youtube shows one aspect of the reality.

QUOTE(ramz @ Oct 9 2019, 07:43 AM)
Mistreatment is not ok no matter what. For Uighurs case, is something like preemptive strikes on Muslim before they start to organize to be a force that will threaten China's narrative.

But China must learn that should not be the way to handle conflicts. Don't learn from Malaysia.

Must I tell China the right way? Is what I do. Convince Muslims that islam is a false religion. Don't force, don't impose. Do reverse dakwah. That's it. And if there is promotion to violence, haul those people up, not haul up 2 million people, that's not the way.

Morality is a funny thing. If u do something wrong often and prevasively enough, it will start to look acceptable. Then it becomes the new morality standard. So it's very important to condemn it at the first sign of human rights violation. Even in this forum there are people saying it's ok because others are doing it.

Don't take Human rights violations lightly .
*
Right, mistreatment is not alright.

On 5th July 2009, riot and chaos by extremists occured. So the initiative is not preemptive.
PRC deploy security force but there were no ends to the violence.
PRC did something few other countries attempted, education.
West called it camps which it does look like it.

The nature of extremist is brainwashing, seclusion and segregation. They would not even consider medicine for the sick.

Fast forward to date, locals especially women can socialize and work in society.
37 states praise XinJiang https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xi...s-idUSKCN1U721X
Mean while rest of the world still dealing with terror. Saudi Arabia amassing war machine over historic levels.

They have a different culture and system. They do not vote and do not use 2 party system. Yet the taught the locals language, law, skills.
They did not teach another religion in the camps. Muslims are still Muslims.

As oppose to a western system in Hong Kong, 2 million are rioting in violence, injuring locals, vandalising facilities, for months now.
Yet HK let them protest and hardly killed 21 dead like in Iraq.

It is good that you voice out the wrongs. Unfortunately extremism and terror continues to exist in the year 2019.
As the youtube Puchongnite shared, some countries still being victim to terror unlike in XinJiang.
It is hard to see back then they burn national flags including MY but today tourist feel safe in XinJiang.

Human rights are important but Malaysia is anti ICERD, so we respect the majority. What happen in XinJiang is solved according to their system.

QUOTE(Spear2 @ Oct 9 2019, 11:47 AM)
I have read a number of articles, some painted China as an evil regime, forcing 1M Uighur population into detention camp similar to Nazi, maybe gassed them to reduce the number or forced abortion to reduce the population etc ..., some reports pointed out the inconsistencies and lack of concrete evidence, and visits by foreign  investigators yielded nothing substantial other than the "education" camps to reduce extremism.

I think the truth is probably somewhere in between. There are some gross exaggeration from the western media, taken from a handful of people who have suffered under the callous and rough mistreatment, dozens of extremist suspects were even put to death and having the stories blown up and viral'ed.

But look at the background. This is China communism coming to age, even the Tiananmen protest 30 years ago was brutally crushed with hundred of deaths. China will not tolerate extremism in any form that departed from central doctrine. That is the dark side of having 30 years bullet train progress elevated 1 billion people out of poverty and abysmal living conditions, instead of the democracy and liberalism suggested by the soft approach in your bolded statement.

Do you think you can convince the Muslims? How many years you need and what tools are at your disposal? It is very likely if you come out in the open and continue your reformation cry, you will be placed in a religious correction center ... smile.gif
*
China is an evil regime. No voting regime. Until they stamp down corruption. Today west continues to propoganda against PRC.
If their system is wrong then there would be riots and civil unrest. Just like Hong Kong which the youth were educated / brainwashed by colonial powers.
To riot in such manner, planning, equipment, they have to be well funded.

PRC knows it cannot impose their system on the world. But they realize how western powers dominate the world. So for them not to be consumed, PRC must survive and thrive. Surely India, Brazil, Africa are not doing anything and Russia has been painted the villain.

Muslims in MY cannot be convinced because the constitution states of it. Neither would I want to try. Respect them as they are. But up to a point where they do not violate others' rights as stated in the constitution.

QUOTE(ramz @ Oct 9 2019, 12:09 PM)
China is doing the "no nonsense" way. That is against the morality I have been upholding for many years. I can't accept that. It will set president on the accepted morality that authority can bulldoze its way to make things "right' in the name of "preemtive measures". Preemptive measures to violence I agree. But not to ideology. But what if the ideology have violence within? That's a tough call to make. But I stand we still need concrete evidence of the manifested violence it will cause. But I don't think China is doing it on that reason. They just don't want a "political ideology" to flourish. Is like Malays defending their "must always be in power" agenda. Same thing. Which I can't accept.
*
Would you fight a war in a nonsense way?
Would you make friends with terrorist?
So in dealing with corruption, stern and effective method must be employed. Rule of law.
Employing education to fend off extremism and terror has resulted in what XinJiang has to day.

As the youtube Puchongnite shared, even multiple states were invited to experience the change.
It is not perfect where everyone became rich like Norway. But the extreme thought have been enlighten by education.

In this case it was not a tough call to make. They tried enforcement. Naturally they progress down this path.
After 2019 years why are there still so much terror.... that is the main question.

Malays are forever in power. The monarchy, government, military, police and economy are all controlled so well that even after 60 years, MY fail to achieve high income economy that people are still 'happy'
TSramz
post Oct 9 2019, 07:03 PM

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QUOTE(Pikichu @ Oct 9 2019, 01:19 PM)
+1 Thank you for sharing the youtube. The comment's in youtube shows one aspect of the reality.
Right, mistreatment is not alright.

On 5th July 2009, riot and chaos by extremists occured. So the initiative is not preemptive.
PRC deploy security force but there were no ends to the violence.
PRC did something few other countries attempted, education.
West called it camps which it does look like it.

The nature of extremist is brainwashing, seclusion and segregation. They would not even consider medicine for the sick.

Fast forward to date, locals especially women can socialize and work in society.
37 states praise XinJiang https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xi...s-idUSKCN1U721X
Mean while rest of the world still dealing with terror. Saudi Arabia amassing war machine over historic levels.

They have a different culture and system. They do not vote and do not use 2 party system. Yet the taught the locals language, law, skills.
They did not teach another religion in the camps. Muslims are still Muslims.

As oppose to a western system in Hong Kong, 2 million are rioting in violence, injuring locals, vandalising facilities, for months now.
Yet HK let them protest and hardly killed 21 dead like in Iraq.

It is good that you voice out the wrongs. Unfortunately extremism and terror continues to exist in the year 2019.
As the youtube Puchongnite shared, some countries still being victim to terror unlike in XinJiang.
It is hard to see back then they burn national flags including MY but today tourist feel safe in XinJiang.

Human rights are important but Malaysia is anti ICERD, so we respect the majority. What happen in XinJiang is solved according to their system.
China is an evil regime. No voting regime. Until they stamp down corruption. Today west continues to propoganda against PRC.
If their system is wrong then there would be riots and civil unrest. Just like Hong Kong which the youth were educated / brainwashed by colonial powers.
To riot in such manner, planning, equipment, they have to be well funded.

PRC knows it cannot impose their system on the world. But they realize how western powers dominate the world. So for them not to be consumed, PRC must survive and thrive. Surely India, Brazil, Africa are not doing anything and Russia has been painted the villain.

Muslims in MY cannot be convinced because the constitution states of it. Neither would I want to try. Respect them as they are. But up to a point where they do not violate others' rights as stated in the constitution.
Would you fight a war in a nonsense way?
Would you make friends with terrorist?
So in dealing with corruption, stern and effective method must be employed. Rule of law.
Employing education to fend off extremism and terror has resulted in what XinJiang has to day.

As the youtube Puchongnite shared, even multiple states were invited to experience the change.
It is not perfect where everyone became rich like Norway. But the extreme thought have been enlighten by education.

In this case it was not a tough call to make. They tried enforcement. Naturally they progress down this path.
After 2019 years why are there still so much terror.... that is the main question.

Malays are forever in power. The monarchy, government, military, police and economy are all controlled so well that even after 60 years, MY fail to achieve high income economy that people are still 'happy'
*

Malaysia was formed with the wrong morality . But I agree there is nothing we can do about it. So let's not harp on it, but instead continue promoting morality based on good principles. But Constitution aside, we must condemn all other discrimination.

tictac88
post Oct 9 2019, 07:05 PM

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those are separatists, so cannot simply let them run free just like that

This post has been edited by tictac88: Oct 9 2019, 07:13 PM
tictac88
post Oct 9 2019, 07:21 PM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Oct 9 2019, 07:03 PM)
Malaysia was formed with the wrong morality . But I agree there is nothing we can do about it. So let's not harp on it, but instead continue promoting morality based on good principles. But Constitution aside, we must condemn all other discrimination.
*
we can voice out our concerns with human rights issue. but among those who are currently actively campaigning against china now, some of them do not really have human rights as their core concerns. their true aim is actually much worse. they want to destablize a currently otherwise peaceful region. and if this is successful, such human rights issue will pale in comparison to the true terror that is going to happen when the region is in true chaos. just look at syria.

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post Oct 9 2019, 09:38 PM

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QUOTE(tictac88 @ Oct 9 2019, 07:21 PM)
we can voice out our concerns with human rights issue. but among those who are currently actively campaigning against china now, some of them do not really have human rights as their core concerns. their true aim is actually much worse. they want to destablize a currently otherwise peaceful region. and if this is successful, such human rights issue will pale in comparison to the true terror that is going to happen when the region is in true chaos. just look at syria.
*
I have issues about foreign power trying to destabilize China but that shouldn't take into account the genuine repression of Chinese government against their minorities, like you seem to dismiss so readily.
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post Oct 9 2019, 09:38 PM

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QUOTE(tictac88 @ Oct 9 2019, 07:21 PM)
we can voice out our concerns with human rights issue. but among those who are currently actively campaigning against china now, some of them do not really have human rights as their core concerns. their true aim is actually much worse. they want to destablize a currently otherwise peaceful region. and if this is successful, such human rights issue will pale in comparison to the true terror that is going to happen when the region is in true chaos. just look at syria.
*
I have issues about foreign power trying to destabilize China but that shouldn't take into account the genuine repression of Chinese government against their minorities, like you seem to dismiss so readily.

Just because NATO, U.S and its allies commit crimes in Syria and other places shouldn't be used as an excuse for China or any other countries to do the same.

This post has been edited by zamorin: Oct 9 2019, 09:40 PM
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post Oct 10 2019, 04:34 AM

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QUOTE(tictac88 @ Oct 9 2019, 07:21 PM)
we can voice out our concerns with human rights issue. but among those who are currently actively campaigning against china now, some of them do not really have human rights as their core concerns. their true aim is actually much worse. they want to destablize a currently otherwise peaceful region. and if this is successful, such human rights issue will pale in comparison to the true terror that is going to happen when the region is in true chaos. just look at syria.
*

I disagree. Human right violations promotes immorality. Terrorism can be dealt without violating Human rights. There is a way without resorting to Human rights abuse.

For example countries that are well known to violate Human rights like Saudi Arabia, iran, Afghanistan, Malaysia don't think they are violating Human rights. Because that's the nature of how morality works. When it is violated pervasively, it becomes the new standard, and is hard to revert back. Just look at Malaysia's racism policy (i.e bumiputera policy). Do you think it will be abolished any time soon? No. Because it is the new morality standard.

We must take Human rights issues seriously. Don't bulldoze it with the hope you will achieve something greater. You won't.

This post has been edited by ramz: Oct 10 2019, 04:35 AM
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post Oct 10 2019, 07:44 AM

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UN Ambassadors from 50 countries voice support to China position on Xinjiang issues.



These countries which oppose China's policy have these characteristics :-

1. Developed countries.
2. Non-Muslim majority countries.
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post Oct 17 2019, 04:21 PM

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QUOTE(Pikichu @ Oct 8 2019, 07:00 AM)
So it is ok to mistreat you biggrin.gif LOL
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Which country doesn't mistreat their people? Spain doesn't. USA doesn't. So you want to move to Mars?

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post Oct 21 2019, 10:24 AM

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QUOTE(touristking @ Oct 17 2019, 04:21 PM)
Which country doesn't mistreat their people? Spain doesn't. USA doesn't. So you want to move to Mars?
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All countries have some form of supremacy, goes by various names, some official by law, some unofficially, including white privilege, etc


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post Oct 21 2019, 10:33 AM

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QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 21 2019, 10:24 AM)
All countries have some form of supremacy, goes by various names, some official by law, some unofficially, including white privilege, etc
*

only racist will think it is normal to have some form of supremacy.

We are here trying to change the status quo for a better tomorrow, then comes the devil to say "it is normal what"

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post Oct 21 2019, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Oct 10 2019, 04:34 AM)
I disagree. Human right violations promotes immorality. Terrorism can be dealt without violating Human rights. There is a way without resorting to Human rights abuse.

For example countries that are well known to violate Human rights like Saudi Arabia, iran, Afghanistan, Malaysia don't think they are violating Human rights. Because that's the nature of how morality works. When it is violated pervasively, it becomes the new standard, and is hard to revert back. Just look at Malaysia's racism policy (i.e bumiputera policy). Do you think it will be abolished any time soon? No. Because it is the new morality standard.

We must take Human rights issues seriously. Don't bulldoze it with the hope you will achieve something greater. You won't.
*
Birthrights is not racism. It is privileges by entitlement. It is guaranteed by the Constitution and safeguarded by the YDPA. When people like you do not like the rule of law, you call it racism.





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post Oct 21 2019, 02:16 PM

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QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 21 2019, 02:10 PM)
Birthrights is not racism. It is privileges by entitlement. It is guaranteed by the Constitution and safeguarded by the YDPA. When people like you  do not like  the rule of law, you call it racism.
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Entitlement means someone is entitled, and someone else is not entitled. Racism in action is exactly that.
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post Oct 21 2019, 02:41 PM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Oct 21 2019, 02:16 PM)
Entitlement means someone is entitled, and someone else is not entitled. Racism in action is exactly that.
*
It's birthrights. No different than the birthrights of the first born (eg. birthrights in Jacob vs Esau, etc), or a manager's entitlement to a company car, etc, an expatriate's entitlement of housing allowance, etc. This is how a capitalist society works, if you want fairness in all, then go live in a socialist society.
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QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 21 2019, 02:41 PM)
It's birthrights. No different than the birthrights of the first born (eg. birthrights in Jacob vs Esau, etc), or a manager's entitlement to a company car, etc, an expatriate's entitlement of housing allowance, etc. This is how a capitalist society works, if you want fairness in all, then go live in a socialist society.
*
You mean someone getting a higher salary is birthright, lol.
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post Oct 21 2019, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 21 2019, 02:41 PM)
It's birthrights. No different than the birthrights of the first born (eg. birthrights in Jacob vs Esau, etc), or a manager's entitlement to a company car, etc, an expatriate's entitlement of housing allowance, etc. This is how a capitalist society works, if you want fairness in all, then go live in a socialist society.
*
Since when capitalist society give rights by race? So in other words you saying the bumis are like managers and non bumis are like Kuli? Good analogy.
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post Oct 21 2019, 03:20 PM

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QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 21 2019, 02:41 PM)
It's birthrights. No different than the birthrights of the first born (eg. birthrights in Jacob vs Esau, etc), or a manager's entitlement to a company car, etc, an expatriate's entitlement of housing allowance, etc. This is how a capitalist society works, if you want fairness in all, then go live in a socialist society.
*
You are one confused person. You don't even know the difference between capitalism and socialism and you think Malaysia is purely a capitalist country with no socialist components. You don't even seem to understand that the "tongkat" that you so much crave for is a socialist component.

The root cause of racism is ignorance. You are the best proof of that.

This post has been edited by zamorin: Oct 21 2019, 03:34 PM
System Error Message
post Oct 21 2019, 08:58 PM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Oct 9 2019, 12:09 PM)
China is doing the "no nonsense" way. That is against the morality I have been upholding for many years. I can't accept that. It will set president on the accepted morality that authority can bulldoze its way to make things "right' in the name of "preemtive measures". Preemptive measures to violence I agree. But not to ideology. But what if the ideology have violence within? That's a tough call to make. But I stand we still need concrete evidence of the manifested violence it will cause. But I don't think China is doing it on that reason. They just don't want a "political ideology" to flourish. Is like Malays defending their "must always be in power" agenda. Same thing. Which I can't accept.
*
Yup, from the 90s till now with every change of regime comes hard changes. What was known in the 90s as an exercised is now demonised due to linkage to previous ruler. However there is another problem here in relation to some spiritual groups that are basically just con man to the point where the conned give all their wealth to these con man in hopes that what they preach will cure their ailments rather than seeking treatment at a hospital where there already is a cure. Despite the bias of china uncensored, they do bring up good topics on china, for instance the damn they built in malaysia that is made from sub quality concrete. It has nothing to do with the price paid but more on someone somewhere is getting some of the budget irregardless if it kills others.

Many issues talked about by china uncensored have been confirmed by independent tests, from some journalists and documentaries actually taking a peek, including security cam footages as well. Just because its convenient in the law to kill someone you just ran over, doesnt mean its morally right to do it. Peoples pet dogs get kidnapped and eaten. It gets worse because its not the person in charge, its the people. Same can be said for malaysia too.

https://metro.co.uk/2015/04/14/chinese-rest...asties-5149860/
(people who have lived in sheffield told me years prior another restaurant was closed for the same reason, but because a dog collar was found in the trash.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-27...ECATE-seat.html
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_e...Q4dUDCAs&uact=5

The problem is just down to the people, and i would say we malaysians are just as bad as china. We may not be kidnapping peoples kids in broad daylight, or their pets, but we do things just as horrible to others but what we do share in common with china is how badly we drive and corruption.

QUOTE(Pikichu @ Oct 9 2019, 01:19 PM)
+1 Thank you for sharing the youtube. The comment's in youtube shows one aspect of the reality.
Right, mistreatment is not alright.

On 5th July 2009, riot and chaos by extremists occured. So the initiative is not preemptive.
PRC deploy security force but there were no ends to the violence.
PRC did something few other countries attempted, education.
West called it camps which it does look like it.

The nature of extremist is brainwashing, seclusion and segregation. They would not even consider medicine for the sick.

Fast forward to date, locals especially women can socialize and work in society.
37 states praise XinJiang https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-xi...s-idUSKCN1U721X
Mean while rest of the world still dealing with terror. Saudi Arabia amassing war machine over historic levels.

They have a different culture and system. They do not vote and do not use 2 party system. Yet the taught the locals language, law, skills.
They did not teach another religion in the camps. Muslims are still Muslims.

As oppose to a western system in Hong Kong, 2 million are rioting in violence, injuring locals, vandalising facilities, for months now.
Yet HK let them protest and hardly killed 21 dead like in Iraq.

It is good that you voice out the wrongs. Unfortunately extremism and terror continues to exist in the year 2019.
As the youtube Puchongnite shared, some countries still being victim to terror unlike in XinJiang.
It is hard to see back then they burn national flags including MY but today tourist feel safe in XinJiang.

Human rights are important but Malaysia is anti ICERD, so we respect the majority. What happen in XinJiang is solved according to their system.
China is an evil regime. No voting regime. Until they stamp down corruption. Today west continues to propoganda against PRC.
If their system is wrong then there would be riots and civil unrest. Just like Hong Kong which the youth were educated / brainwashed by colonial powers.
To riot in such manner, planning, equipment, they have to be well funded.

PRC knows it cannot impose their system on the world. But they realize how western powers dominate the world. So for them not to be consumed, PRC must survive and thrive. Surely India, Brazil, Africa are not doing anything and Russia has been painted the villain.

Muslims in MY cannot be convinced because the constitution states of it. Neither would I want to try. Respect them as they are. But up to a point where they do not violate others' rights as stated in the constitution.
Would you fight a war in a nonsense way?
Would you make friends with terrorist?
So in dealing with corruption, stern and effective method must be employed. Rule of law.
Employing education to fend off extremism and terror has resulted in what XinJiang has to day.

As the youtube Puchongnite shared, even multiple states were invited to experience the change.
It is not perfect where everyone became rich like Norway. But the extreme thought have been enlighten by education.

In this case it was not a tough call to make. They tried enforcement. Naturally they progress down this path.
After 2019 years why are there still so much terror.... that is the main question.

Malays are forever in power. The monarchy, government, military, police and economy are all controlled so well that even after 60 years, MY fail to achieve high income economy that people are still 'happy'
*
this isnt really the case. What china has done is not as bad as what happened here. From long ago in the past, china has messed with beliefs to their core, from banning every religious movement to messing with them. For instance the 2nd to the dalai lama was kidnapped and replaced with a fake, so the dalai lama said that he will be the last, but china released in a press that the leader of china is the one who controls reincarnation. The leader also said that if you wanted to practice christianity, your churches must also have pictures and statues of the leader of the CCP. So religion is practiced underground in china. We all know how rigid muslims are so its not just the regime change that they want but they are not willing to allow their religion to be diluted by the CCP. Thats not to say that disruptive influence doesnt come, but disruptive influence increases in the light of oppression, so with the lack of freedom, you have oppression which increases opposing elements. Combine this with the lack of community and decency in public from the chinese, and you get a lot of selfishness. To give you an example, lifts and escalators arent maintained, no one bothers to pay for them in shared living spaces and public bathrooms to this day is a horror sight, worse than the public bathrooms in malaysia when they were poorly maintained.

So while in malaysia other faiths practice freely up to a point. Christians cant use the word allah, and muslims cant quit islam in malaysia, among other restrictions, but the malaysian government, police or military do not oppress groups like china does.

It does not matter that this is done to solve harmful elements, but its done in such a manner to assume that the general population is the enemy/cause, rather than enlisting the population to work together that the country/government is your friend and not your oppressor.

Also in malaysia racism was really bad. One particularly note of alumni was that chinese schools would not have regular classes and not allow the malays to attend many classes where they would have to sit outside. So in malaysia truthfully its not the minority thats being oppressed, its the majority. When utusan fell, they had already planned a couple months ahead, so the firing wasnt immediate as the staff was notified 2 months before, but thankfully were saved, however one of the ruling party was quick to party when utusan was declaring itself bankrupt.

QUOTE(zamorin @ Oct 9 2019, 09:38 PM)
I have issues  about foreign power trying to destabilize China but that shouldn't take into account the genuine repression of Chinese government against their minorities, like you seem to dismiss so readily.
*
As i mentioned above, is all about the people, their culture and doctrine. Its not only harmful elements that china is stamping out, but like with islam, it is influencing what you can do on all levels. Some people use china as a model to predict the social environment and people in the future in highly advanced cities in media like games and videos. Some are pretty accurate in their prediction.

Even before foreign power distabalised china, they had already been doing their oppression. After ww2, since the rise of the CCP, they have committed a lot of oppressive acts. Till this day, china does not have a military, but the CCP (the party/group) does, so the military in china is all under the rule and ownership of the CCP and not china. In constitutional monarchies like malaysia and UK, our services are under the government. For example pos diraja malaysia, polis diraja malaysia, Tentera ____ diraja malaysia (i.e. TUDM), her majesty's ..... but in china thats not the case as its considered to be privately owned instead.

While the chinese people are getting better from past bad behaviour towards others and each other, its still pretty bad when a lot of vigilante justice happens.
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post Oct 22 2019, 08:10 AM

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QUOTE(System Error Message @ Oct 21 2019, 08:58 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Also in malaysia racism was really bad. One particularly note of alumni was that chinese schools would not have regular classes and not allow the malays to attend many classes where they would have to sit outside. So in malaysia truthfully its not the minority thats being oppressed, its the majority.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
Please cite your source for that claim.

System Error Message
post Oct 22 2019, 09:41 AM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Oct 22 2019, 08:10 AM)
Please cite your source for that claim.
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parents experience
puchongite
post Oct 22 2019, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(System Error Message @ Oct 22 2019, 09:41 AM)
parents experience
*
Do you have any credibility at all in whatever you say ?

You are same league as this one :-




Spear2
post Oct 22 2019, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(System Error Message @ Oct 22 2019, 09:41 AM)
parents experience
*
What school was that? I can check.
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post Oct 22 2019, 06:02 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Oct 22 2019, 09:50 AM)
What school was that? I can check.
*
sjk© tanah putih. It was like that decades ago before the national educational reforms. At another school that was part of a churh, the religious teachers werent allowed to share or use the facilities other than the classroom. So in the past the divide was really really bad.
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post Oct 22 2019, 06:08 PM

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QUOTE(System Error Message @ Oct 22 2019, 06:02 PM)
sjk© tanah putih. It was like that decades ago before the national educational reforms. At another school that was part of a churh, the religious teachers werent allowed to share or use the facilities other than the classroom. So in the past the divide was really really bad.
*
So how is it relevant then to your claim since it was decades ago? You cannot even produce any real evidence, a report/article, clipping from newspaper etc ... and you seem to rely entirely on hearsay, 30 years ago an incident or two and it became as you claimed,

"Also in malaysia racism was really bad. One particularly note of alumni was that chinese schools would not have regular classes and not allow the malays to attend many classes where they would have to sit outside. So in malaysia truthfully its not the minority thats being oppressed, its the majority. "

That is slandering and spreading lies. That is not good.

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post Oct 22 2019, 06:28 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Oct 22 2019, 06:08 PM)
So how is it relevant then to your claim since it was decades ago? You cannot even produce any real evidence, a report/article, clipping from newspaper etc ... and you seem to rely entirely on hearsay, 30 years ago an incident or two and it became as you claimed,

"Also in malaysia racism was really bad. One particularly note of alumni was that chinese schools would not have regular classes and not allow the malays to attend many classes where they would have to sit outside. So in malaysia truthfully its not the minority thats being oppressed, its the majority. "

That is slandering and spreading lies. That is not good.
*
1st hand accounts of others. What im saying is that the fact that racism like this existed forms shaky ground today. Whats needed is an acknowledgement of the errors of the past and to move on in a more united fashion. Many older people i often hear them talk ill of other races and its because when they were younger, racism was much more rampant.
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post Oct 23 2019, 07:59 AM

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QUOTE(System Error Message @ Oct 22 2019, 06:28 PM)
1st hand accounts of others. What im saying is that the fact that racism like this existed forms shaky ground today. Whats needed is an acknowledgement of the errors of the past and to move on in a more united fashion. Many older people i often hear them talk ill of other races and its because when they were younger, racism was much more rampant.
*
I don't think I have stressed enough.

1st hand account of others according to you which amounts to no more than hearsay. It is poor excuse to me. IOW you have nothing. But look at the claim and conclusion you drew from your flimsy "1st hand account", quote

"Also in malaysia racism was really bad. One particularly note of alumni was that chinese schools would not have regular classes and not allow the malays to attend many classes where they would have to sit outside. So in malaysia truthfully its not the minority thats being oppressed, its the majority. "

Racism exists everywhere, it's an inherited animal trait that in the past aided survival. And IMO racism is more rampant now than in the past, it becomes worse when politicians use racial issues to gain popularity and with the rise of religiosity.



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post Oct 23 2019, 11:04 AM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Oct 23 2019, 07:59 AM)
I don't think I have stressed enough.

1st hand account of others according to you which amounts to no more than hearsay. It is poor excuse to me. IOW you have nothing. But look at the claim and conclusion you drew from your flimsy "1st hand account", quote

"Also in malaysia racism was really bad. One particularly note of alumni was that chinese schools would not have regular classes and not allow the malays to attend many classes where they would have to sit outside. So in malaysia truthfully its not the minority thats being oppressed, its the majority. "

Racism exists everywhere, it's an inherited animal trait that in the past aided survival. And IMO racism is more rampant now than in the past, it becomes worse when politicians use racial issues to gain popularity and with the rise of religiosity.
*
children of mixed races are better biologically. The further apart your DNA from the other, the better the offspring. So i dont see how racsim is a survival instinct when its more of the opposite, or rather distrust. Many politicians themselves are mixed races.
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QUOTE(System Error Message @ Oct 23 2019, 11:04 AM)
children of mixed races are better biologically. The further apart your DNA from the other, the better the offspring. So i dont see how racsim is a survival instinct when its more of the opposite, or rather distrust. Many politicians themselves are mixed races.
*
Citation please or this is another of your uninformed opinion.
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post Oct 23 2019, 12:39 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Oct 23 2019, 11:58 AM)
Citation please or this is another of your uninformed opinion.
*
https://aeon.co/essays/the-future-is-mixed-...ng-for-humanity

Theres a reason why its bad to marry your cousins.
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post Oct 23 2019, 12:54 PM

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QUOTE(System Error Message @ Oct 23 2019, 12:39 PM)
https://aeon.co/essays/the-future-is-mixed-...ng-for-humanity

Theres a reason why its bad to marry your cousins.
*
Let me ask you what happens when a beneficial strong trait for survival in a particular environment is diluted with foreign DNA? Does this confer better advantage or disadvantage for the population?
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post Oct 23 2019, 01:50 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Oct 22 2019, 06:08 PM)
So how is it relevant then to your claim since it was decades ago? You cannot even produce any real evidence, a report/article, clipping from newspaper etc ... and you seem to rely entirely on hearsay, 30 years ago an incident or two and it became as you claimed,

"Also in malaysia racism was really bad. One particularly note of alumni was that chinese schools would not have regular classes and not allow the malays to attend many classes where they would have to sit outside. So in malaysia truthfully its not the minority thats being oppressed, its the majority. "

That is slandering and spreading lies. That is not good.
*
Other than the fact that there is no such school called SK© Tanah Putih. There is SK Tanah Putih and SK© Chung Ching in Tanah Putih.

QUOTE(puchongite @ Oct 22 2019, 09:48 AM)
Do you have any credibility at all in whatever you say ?

You are same league as this one :-
*
You are providing him with role models to look up to now. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by zamorin: Oct 23 2019, 01:58 PM
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post Oct 23 2019, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(zamorin @ Oct 23 2019, 01:50 PM)
Other than the fact that there is no such school called SK© Tanah Putih. There is SK Tanah Putih and SK© Chung Ching in Tanah Putih.
You are providing him with role models to look up to now. biggrin.gif
*
I think he is 50,000 mAH Samsung battery, when open up :-

user posted image
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post Oct 24 2019, 01:44 AM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Oct 21 2019, 02:48 PM)
Since when capitalist society give rights by race? So in other words you saying the bumis are like managers and non bumis are like Kuli? Good analogy.
*
Nope, you work hard, you reap the rewards. Nothing is free in this world.

The kuli have their own privileges, there all differ.





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post Oct 24 2019, 05:24 AM

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QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 24 2019, 01:44 AM)
Nope, you work hard, you reap the rewards. Nothing is free in this world.

The kuli have their own privileges, there all differ.
*

Ahh. That's the thinking we want from you. Not like some people who prefer to choose their parents in order to reap their birthright rewards.

The Kuli privilege is the ability to work harder and smarter to reap his rewards.

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post Oct 25 2019, 03:58 AM

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post Oct 25 2019, 06:48 AM

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QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 24 2019, 01:44 AM)
Nope, you work hard, you reap the rewards. Nothing is free in this world.

The kuli have their own privileges, there all differ.
*
But some bumi for example you start demanding this and that and quoted birth right. This is clearly greedy of you!
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QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 25 2019, 03:58 AM)
user posted image
*
Say no to Human rights abuse. We are all equal in the eyes of our maker, right? But if u need help, we will help. But it's because u need help, not because it is your birthright.

But of course you won't understand.

Here is the universal declaration of Human rights. Count how many have China and Malaysia abused so far...

For Malaysia, half is a mild estimate.

https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

This post has been edited by ramz: Oct 25 2019, 08:16 AM
puchongite
post Oct 25 2019, 08:58 AM

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QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 25 2019, 03:58 AM)
user posted image
*
The last point is important.

Those who are detained have to repeatedly watch 're-education' films featuring state appointed Iman who explains 'illegal religious practices' and 'appropriate interpretation of Islam'.

At least in the views of the China government, many of the Uighur are having terrorist mindsets and doing harmful religious practices.

Leaving the discussion of whether the approach taken adequately meets humanity standard aside, I personally think China government is correct in this accessment of the issue. Islam has built in political elements and philosophy, it is easy for it to used to spread different political idealogy than the only allowed political idealogy in the communist China. It is just like in Malaysia, we are not allowed to be involved in any idealogy other than democracy, particularly communism. A government will always defend its political ideology.

But in Malaysia to shout about political Islam is treated as a very righteous thing. Hadi Awang does that all the time. That is big irony.

This post has been edited by puchongite: Oct 25 2019, 09:03 AM
TSramz
post Oct 25 2019, 09:21 AM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Oct 25 2019, 08:58 AM)
The last point is important.

Those who are detained have to repeatedly watch 're-education' films featuring state appointed Iman who explains 'illegal religious practices' and 'appropriate interpretation of Islam'.

At least in the views of the China government, many of the Uighur are having terrorist mindsets and doing harmful religious practices.

Leaving the discussion of whether the approach taken adequately meets humanity standard aside, I personally think China government is correct in this accessment of the issue. Islam has built in political elements and philosophy, it is easy for it to used to spread different political idealogy than the only allowed political idealogy in the communist China. It is just like in Malaysia, we are not allowed to be involved in any idealogy other than democracy, particularly communism. A government will always defend its political ideology.

But in Malaysia to shout about political Islam is treated as a very righteous thing. Hadi Awang  does that all the time. That is big irony.
*
Hadi has a right to shout about political islam. And somebody has the right to shout about communism is he choose to. Let the best man win. But of course there are limits to the shouting. As long as you don't promote violence, you are free to say it. This is the environment I want to live in. But I know not many share my inspiration.

I am not there to witness how China treat the Muslims. But my sentiments tells me there is definitely Human abuse, and the approach to force re-education also seems not right (I have to look into the details to confirm). Forced re-education to kill promotion of violence is ok, but not to kill the ideology. Although islam scriptures promote violence (so do most major religions btw), but it does not translate to majority of Muslims promoting violence.


puchongite
post Oct 25 2019, 09:26 AM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Oct 25 2019, 09:21 AM)
Hadi has a right to shout about political islam. And somebody has the right to shout about communism is he choose to. Let the best man win. But of course there are limits to the shouting. As long as you don't promote violence, you are free to say it. This is the environment I want to live in. But I know not many share my inspiration.

I am not there to witness how China treat the Muslims. But my sentiments tells me there is definitely Human abuse, and the approach to force re-education also seems not right (I have to look into the details to confirm). Forced  re-education to kill promotion of violence is ok, but not to kill the ideology. Although islam scriptures promote violence (so do most major religions btw), but it does not translate to majority of Muslims promoting violence.
*
Many of the political Islam directly translate to violence.

Also are sure it is ok to shout about communism in Malaysia ?

This post has been edited by puchongite: Oct 25 2019, 09:54 AM
TSramz
post Oct 25 2019, 09:30 AM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Oct 25 2019, 09:26 AM)
Many of the political Islam directly translate to violence.

Also are sure it is ok to shout about communiy in Malaysia ?
*
Well there are 2 ways to shout. 1. Let's have a khalifah system but let's do this by influencing others. 2. Let's have a khalifah system, force it and threaten those who don't want. I can tolerate the 1st way.

I am talking about the environment I like to live in. Of course Malaysia don't allow communism.
puchongite
post Oct 25 2019, 09:40 AM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Oct 25 2019, 09:30 AM)
Well there are 2 ways to shout. 1. Let's have a khalifah system but let's do this by influencing others. 2. Let's have a khalifah system, force it and threaten those who don't want. I can tolerate the 1st way.

I am talking about the environment I like to live in. Of course Malaysia don't allow communism.
*
Political Islam has very big scope. Syariah is political Islam. Apostasy law is one facet of political Islam. And directly translate to inhumanity and violence.

True democracy is messy and slow and many times ineffective.

This post has been edited by puchongite: Oct 25 2019, 09:54 AM
TSramz
post Oct 25 2019, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Oct 25 2019, 09:40 AM)
Political Islam has very big scope. Syariah is political Islam. Apostasy law is one facet of political Islam. And directly translate to inhumanity and violence.

True democracy is messy and slow and many times ineffective.
*
I don't know whether u want to call true democracy.

But I like to live in an environment that is open for the best idea to surface. In Malaysia u can't criticize islam, u can't even promote another religion. You can't talk about apostasy law and how stupid it is except in forums like this (if this forum gets as popular as Facebook, you can't do it either). But if u open up, u must be fair to your enemies too. They have the right to open up too. Of course with some restrictions in place like no promotion to violence, no imposition. Etc.

This environment to me is not messy and ineffective, but the opposite. I don't want to put a label.
puchongite
post Oct 25 2019, 10:14 AM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Oct 25 2019, 10:05 AM)
I don't know whether u want to call true democracy.

But I like to live in an environment that is open for the best idea to surface. In Malaysia u can't criticize islam, u can't even promote another religion. You can't talk about apostasy law and how stupid it is except in forums like this (if this forum gets as popular as Facebook, you can't do it either). But if u open up, u must be fair to your enemies too. They have the right to open up too. Of course with some restrictions in place like no promotion to violence, no imposition. Etc.

This environment to me is not messy and ineffective, but the opposite. I don't want to put a label.
*
Put yourself in the shoes of the Chinese government, then you will perhaps appreciate better which is more effective in addressing the issues of terrorism in Xinjang, the full humanity and democracy method or the China hardliner method or something else .....

TSramz
post Oct 25 2019, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Oct 25 2019, 10:14 AM)
Put yourself in the shoes of the Chinese government, then you will perhaps appreciate better which is more effective in addressing the issues of terrorism in Xinjang, the full humanity and democracy method or the China hardliner method or something else .....
*

I did mention in my earlier post that I am not there to observe. Maybe there is no human rights abuse after all. Maybe those impositions are fake news. But I really doubt so. Anyway I hold judgement for now.

puchongite
post Oct 25 2019, 10:33 AM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Oct 25 2019, 10:25 AM)
I did mention in my earlier post that I am not there to observe. Maybe there is no human rights abuse after all. Maybe those impositions are fake news. But I really doubt so. Anyway I hold judgement for now.
*
The China does impose, so that's not fake. Neither the terrorism. Both are true.

In China, as long as you are not involved in other political idealogy, you are generally ok.

Islam is political, so that's why the China is very particular about certain ways of living as a Muslim.
alhelmy
post Oct 25 2019, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(whirlwind @ Oct 25 2019, 06:48 AM)
But some bumi for example you start demanding this and that and quoted birth right. This is clearly greedy of you!
*
Why would bumi demand birthrights when they already have that. It is the non-bumis who are demanding the very same birthrights accorded to bumis.



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post Oct 25 2019, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Oct 25 2019, 10:33 AM)
The China does impose, so that's not fake. Neither the terrorism. Both are true.

In China, as long as you are not involved in other political idealogy, you are generally ok.

Islam is political, so that's why the China is very particular about certain ways of living as a Muslim.
*
I understand China, but I don't agree with the impositions.

To Muslims not all subscribe to political islam. But the ones that do will preach about it. Is it wrong to do that? No. So there will be people like me who will say your idea is stupid. Is fair fight right? In democracy is about influencing. But if u have a fair fight in the influencing game, that's healthy. You lose means I need to brush up, or your idea really sucks!

I do not wish Malaysia to be like China.
whirlwind
post Oct 25 2019, 10:54 AM

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QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 25 2019, 10:41 AM)
Why would bumi demand birthrights when they already have that. It is the non-bumis who are demanding the very same birthrights accorded to bumis.
*
It’s not why. It’s you.
As usual are you the alhelmy I’m talking too?
puchongite
post Oct 25 2019, 11:00 AM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Oct 25 2019, 10:44 AM)
I understand China, but I don't agree with the impositions.

To Muslims not all subscribe to political islam. But the ones that do will preach about it. Is it wrong to do that? No. So there will be people like me who will say your idea is stupid. Is fair fight right? In democracy is about influencing. But if u have a fair fight in the influencing game, that's healthy. You lose means I need to brush up, or your idea really sucks!

I do not wish Malaysia to be like China.
*
I would say 90% or more Muslim are subscribing to political Islam, many of them doing it without consciously aware of it.
alhelmy
post Oct 25 2019, 11:03 AM

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QUOTE(whirlwind @ Oct 25 2019, 10:54 AM)
It’s not why. It’s you.
As usual are you the alhelmy I’m talking too?
*
Me? I don't have to demand anything. I inherited it by my birthrights.



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post Oct 25 2019, 11:14 AM

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QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 25 2019, 11:03 AM)
Me? I don't have to demand anything. I inherited it by my birthrights.
*
I guess you are not the alhelmy I’m talking too

Therefore, whatever.......
Pointless talking to multiple people using the same account
TSramz
post Oct 25 2019, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Oct 25 2019, 11:00 AM)
I would say 90% or more Muslim are subscribing to political Islam, many of them doing it without consciously aware of it.
*
Ok how do we fight this idea? There is no way!

Malaysia:
1. won't let other ideology take control coz we got raja and sultans.
2. Cannot propogate other religions, so islam has just stifled the competition at hello.
3. Cannot apostate, meaning islam will never shrink.
4. Cannot criticize, meaning islam will always be the truth, coz nobody is opposing.
4. islam impose on other religions (disguised as race), meaning islam ratio will just continue to grow until we become like saudi.

First we need level playing field. But we won't get that.

Malaysia will forever me a mediocre country, or worst.
alhelmy
post Oct 25 2019, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(whirlwind @ Oct 25 2019, 11:14 AM)
I guess you are not the alhelmy I’m talking too

Therefore, whatever.......
Pointless talking to multiple people using the same account
*
Let me convince you to who I am, I am Alhelmy the Great, you are the cheese cake man, tongkat is fatt choy and if you need to be amused, I can amuse. Convinced enough?


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post Oct 25 2019, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 25 2019, 11:22 AM)
Let me convince you to who I am, I am Alhelmy the Great, you are the cheese cake man, tongkat is fatt choy and if you need to be amused, I can amuse. Convinced enough?
*
I was convinced at hello. Thanks for your clown service.
whirlwind
post Oct 25 2019, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 25 2019, 11:22 AM)
Let me convince you to who I am, I am Alhelmy the Great, you are the cheese cake man, tongkat is fatt choy and if you need to be amused, I can amuse. Convinced enough?
*
Then why are you forgetting about you agreeing that the Malays demand key positions, scholarships and loans only for the Malays? Forgetful?
puchongite
post Oct 25 2019, 11:36 AM

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QUOTE(ramz @ Oct 25 2019, 11:18 AM)
Ok how do we fight this idea? There is no way!

Malaysia:
1. won't let other ideology take control coz we got raja and sultans.
2. Cannot propogate other religions, so islam has just stifled the competition at hello.
3. Cannot apostate, meaning islam will never shrink.
4. Cannot criticize, meaning islam will always be the truth, coz nobody is opposing.
4. islam impose on other religions (disguised as race), meaning islam ratio will just continue to grow until we become like saudi.

First we need level playing field. But we won't get that.

Malaysia will forever me a mediocre country, or worst.
*
Malaysia is hopeless, it can only get worse, not better.

If you keep tap on the activities in Xinjang, then you might get some idea.

The 'training camp' or the 'vocational school' are some of the activities which are well known and famous or notorious depending on your view.

The government also encourage those moderate Muslims in Xinjang to publish video of the everyday life. So you can see many Xinjang Uighur muslim video. They are definitely a lot more open than those in Malaysia. They are not wearing hijab. They walk around with the long hair. They speak fluent Mandarin. They sing and dance. From the making of these videos, the creators also make money from it. And they are happy.

This post has been edited by puchongite: Oct 25 2019, 01:36 PM
alhelmy
post Oct 25 2019, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(whirlwind @ Oct 25 2019, 11:26 AM)
Then why are you forgetting about you agreeing that the Malays demand key positions, scholarships and loans only for the Malays? Forgetful?
*
Show me the evidence that Malays demand key positions, scholarships and loans only for the Malays.

The Malays have the largest MPs, naturally they will take the key positions. Scholarships are given on the basis of their birthrights, loans are given based on eligibility. They don't give out loan to every Ahmad, Ali and Abu, if they do so, all Malays will have lots of cash.

Don't know why you complain so much about scholarships, here is a typical govt scholarship, it does not have any restrictions on race. It did require credits in Bahasa Melayu and a band 3 in the Malaysian University English Test (MUET). Could it be the non-bumi are not proficent enough in Bahasa Melayu? And they did not have a band 3 in English since they attend vernacular schools?



QUOTE

JPA - Program Penajaan Kumpulan Pelaksana (Sepenuh Masa) 2019 / 2020
Sponsored by: Jabatan Perkhidmatan Awam Malaysia (JPA)

Sukacita Jabatan ini mempelawa pegawai-pegawai Kumpulan Pelaksana (Persekutuan) yang berminat untuk memohon kemudahan Program Penajaan Kumpulan Pelaksana (PPKP) bagi mengikuti pengajian di peringkat Sijil dan Diploma TVET, Diploma serta Ijazah Pertama.

Kerajaan melalui pengumuman Bajet Tahun 2017, bersetuju menyediakan kemudahan Cuti Belajar Bergaji Penuh Dengan Biasiswa Kumpulan Pelaksana (CBBPDBKP) yang berkelayakan untuk mengikuti pengajian secara sepenuh masa bagi sesi 2018.

Kemudahan ini bertujuan menggalakkan pembelajaran sepanjang hayat bagi memberi peluang kepada Kumpulan Pelaksana untuk meningkatkan pengetahuan melalui perolehan sijil-sijil akademik dan latihan kemahiran yang diiktiraf sesuai dengan keperluan perjawatan dan perkhidmatan yang diberikan di samping mempertingkatkan kualiti hidup dan boleh menjana pendapatan yang lebih baik.

Bermula tahun 2019, kemudahan ini telah ditambahbaik dengan penawaran pengajian secara sepenuh masa dan separuh masa dan dijenamakan semula sebagai Program Penajaan Kumpulan Pelaksana (PPKP).

Bagi pengajian secara sepenuh masa, permohonan dibuka bermula 1 Mac 2019 sehingga 29 Februari 2020 manakala pengajian separuh masa akan diiklankan pada April 2019.


Bidang Pengajian

    Bidang Pendidikan Teknikal dan Latihan Vokasional (TVET) di peringkat Sijil Kemahiran Malaysia (12 hingga 24 bulan) dan Diploma Kemahiran Malaysia (24 hingga 36 bulan) yang ditauliahkan oleh Jabatan Pembangunan Kemahiran (JPK) seperti LAMPIRAN 2. Walau bagaimanapun, bidang-bidang ini adalah tertakluk kepada penawaran semasa oleh mana-mana politeknik, kolej komuniti atau pusat-pusat bertauliah awam tersebut; dan
    Bidang keperluan guna tenaga perkhidmatan awam bagi kemasukan peringkat Diploma (36 bulan) dan Ijazah Pertama (48 bulan); kecuali bidang profesional/kritikal seperti Perubatan, Pergigian, Farmasi, Veterinar dan Undang-Undang seperti LAMPIRAN 3. Bidang Pendidikan terhad kepada Pegawai Perkhidmatan Pendidikan sahaja.


Syarat Umum

    Pegawai Perkhidmatan Awam Persekutuan (Kumpulan Pelaksana) yang sedang berkhidmat dalam perkhidmatan tetap;
    Telah disahkan dalam skim perkhidmatan terkini;
    Mencapai markah purata Laporan Nilaian Prestasi Tahunan (LNPT) 85% ke atas bagi tempoh tiga (3) tahun di skim perkhidmatan terkini secara berturut-turut (2015, 2016 & 2017) atau (2016, 2017 & 2018). Penilaian setahun LNPT hendaklah genap 12 bulan;
    Telah menerima tawaran melanjutkan pengajian pada tahun 2019/2020 secara sepenuh masa dan belum memulakan pengajian di pusat-pusat bertauliah awam yang ditauliahkan oleh JPK/ kolei komunitil politeknikl politeknik premier) universiti awam yang dipersetujui JPA;
    Pegawai yang memohon kemudahan ini hendaklah mengikuti kursus pada peringkat yang lebih tinggi daripada kelayakan akademik yang telah dimiliki;
    Mematuhi syarat genap tempoh tamat mengikuti kursus jangka panjang/sederhana/pendek di bawah kemudahan cuti belajar sedia ada seperti berikut:
    Tempoh Kursus  Tempoh Menunggu (Dikira bermula tarikh memulakan pengajian)
    Lebih 12 bulan  2 tahun
    Lebih dari 3 bulan, kurang dari 12 bulan  1 tahun
    Kurang dari 3 bulan  Tiada
    Permohonan diperaku oleh Ketua Jabatan/Ketua Perkhidmatan;
    Bebas dari sebarang pertuduhan / tindakan tatatertib / dakwaan mahkamah;
    Bukan peminjam tegar pinjaman pelajaran atau bukan dalam senarai hitam Jabatan Perkhidmatan Awam (JPA) atau badan penaja lain;
    Telah mengisytiharkan harta; dan
    Calon perlu bebas dari sebarang penyakit kronik seperti LAMPIRAN 4;


Syarat Khusus

SIJIL KEMAHIRAN MALAYSIA (TVET)

    Had umur tidak melebihi 45 tahun pada 1 Januari 2019;
    Telah berkhidmat sekurang-kurangnya lima (5) tahun pada 1 Januari 2019;
    Memiliki kelulusan Sijil Pelajaran Malaysia;
    Pegawai mengikuti kursus/latihan kemahiran yang setahap atau kombinasi dengan tempoh 12 hingga 24 bulan;
    Ditawarkan bidang pengajian pada tahun 2019/2020 yang ditetapkan seperti LAMPIRAN 2 di politeknik, kolej komuniti atau pusat-pusat bertauliah awam yang ditauliahkan oleh JPK seperti LAMPIRAN 5.

DIPLOMA KEMAHIRAN MALAYSIA (TVET)

    Had umur tidak melebihi 45 tahun pada 1 Januari 2019;
    Telah berkhidmat sekurang-kurangnya lima (5) tahun pada 1 Januari 2019;
    Memiliki kelulusan Sijil Pelajaran Malaysia dan Sijil Kemahiran Malaysia;
    Pegawai mengikuti kursus/latihan kemahiran yang setahap atau kombinasi dengan tempoh 24 hingga 36 bulan; dan
    Ditawarkan bidang pengajian pada tahun 2019/2020 yang ditetapkan seperti LAMPIRAN 2 di pusat-pusat bertauliah awam yang ditauliahkan oleh JPK/ politeknik/ kolej komuniti seperti LAMPIRAN 5.

DIPLOMA

    Had umur tidak melebihi 45 tahun pada 1 Januari 2019;
    Telah berkhidmat sekurang-kurangnya lima (5) tahun pada 1 Januari 2019;
    Memperoleh pencapaian akademik sekurang-kurangnya lima (5) kepujian di peringkat Sijil Pelajaran Malaysia (SPM) termasuk subjek Bahasa Melayu dan Sejarah atau setara (mengikut syarat keperluan Universiti);
    Ditawarkan bidang pengajian pada tahun 2019/2020 yang ditetapkan seperti LAMPIRAN 3 di universiti-universiti awam atau politeknik seperti LAMPIRAN 6; dan
    Kursus yang diikuti hendaklah diiktiraf oleh Kerajaan melalui Agensi Kelayakan Malaysia (MQA).

IJAZAH PERTAMA

    Had umur tidak melebihi 45 tahun pada 1 Januari 2019;
    Telah berkhidmat sekurang-kurangnya 10 tahun pada 1 Januari 2019;
    Memperoleh pencapaian akademik sekurang-kurangnya lima (5) kepujian di peringkat Sijil Pelajaran Malaysia (SPM) termasuk subjek Bahasa Melayu dan Sejarah atau setara (mengikut syarat keperluan universiti);
    Memiliki kelulusan sama ada Diploma/ Sijil Tinggi Pelajaran Malaysia (STPM) Sijil Tinggi Agama Malaysia (STAM)/ A-Level atau yang setara dengannya;
    Memperoleh sekurang-kurangnya Band 3 bagi keputusan Malaysian University English Test (MUET) sebelum memulakan pengajian;
    Ditawarkan bidang pengajian pada tahun 2019/2020 yang ditetapkan seperti LAMPIRAN 3 di universiti-universiti awam atau politeknik premier seperti LAMPIRAN 6; dan
    Kursus yang diikuti hendaklah diiktiraf oleh Kerajaan melalui Agensi Kelayakan Malaysia (MQA).


Kemudahan

    Calon yang berjaya akan ditawarkan kemudahan Cuti Belajar Bergaji Penuh Dengan Biasiswa (CBBPDB) bagi mengikuti pengajian dengan penajaan biasiswa daripada kerajaan yang merangkumi bayaran yuran pengajian dan elaun-elaun yang berkelayakan sepanjang tempoh pengajian;
    Kemudahan ini akan ditamatkan sekiranya pegawai tidak berjaya mengekalkan prestasi akademik 3.00 Purata Nilaian Gred Kumulatif (PNGK) setiap semester bagi pengajian peringkat Diploma/Diploma Kemahiran Malaysia dan Ijazah Pertama; dan
    Penerima kemudahan juga tertakluk kepada ketetapan dalam Garis Panduan Dasar Pelaksanaan Tindakan Mengenakan Penalti Kepada Pemegang Biasiswa Dalam Perkhidmatan Yang Gagal Menamatkan Pengajian Dengan Jaya.


Ikatan Perjanjian Dengan Kerajaan

Calon yang berjaya dikehendaki menandatangani perjanjian dengan Kerajaan dan pegawai adalah tertakluk kepada tempoh ikatan kontrak yang dikenakan untuk berkhidmat dengan kerajaan.


Tatacara Permohonan

Permohonan boleh dibuat dengan mengisi permohonan secara atas talian di portal eSila, JPA melalui pautan http://esilav2.jpa.gov.my.

Bagi memohon PPKP (Diploma & Ijazah Pertama) - Sila rujuk pautan ini.

Bagi memohon PPKP (TVET) - Sila rujuk pautan ini.

Permohonan dibuka mulai 1 Mac 2019 hingga 29 Februari 2020.

Borang yang telah lengkap diisi hendaklah dimuat turun dan dicetak DALAM TIGA SALINAN untuk dihantar kepada Ketua Jabatan DAN Ketua Perkhidmatan masing-masing dan disertakan bersama-sama:

    Borang JPA(L)LDP 1A/96;
    Borang Perakuan Ketua Jabatan;
    Salinan Sijil Pelajaran Malaysia (SPM);
    Salinan Sijil Kemahiran Malaysia (SKM) – bagi pemohon pengajian Diploma TVET;
    Salinan Diploma/ Sijil Tinggi Pelajaran Malaysia (STPM) Sijil Tinggi Agama Malaysia (STAM)/ A-Level/ setara -- bagi pemohon pengajian Ijazah Pertama;
    Salinan Buku Perkhidmatan;
    Salinan surat tawaran pusat-pusat bertauliah awam/ kolej komuniti/ politeknik/ politeknik premier/ universiti awam yang dipersetujui JPA;
    Slip pengiktirafan kursus oleh Agensi Kelayakan Malaysia (MQA) yang dicetak melalui pautan http://www2.mqa.gov.my/mgr/ bagi pemohon Diploma dan Ijazah Pertama sahaja;
    Salinan keputusan Malaysian University English Test (MUET) - bagi pemohon ljazah Pertama sahaja
    Senarai penuh mata pelajaran yang akan diambil beserta
    kalendar akademik pengajian;
    Salinan surat pelantikan ke Perkhidmatan Awam;
    Salinan Sijil Perkahwinan dan Sijil Kelahiran anak-anak (jika berkenaan).
    Borang Pengesahan Maklumat Pengajian (dibekalkan) – bagi pemohon Sijil dan Diploma TVET sahaja;
    Borang Pengesahan Perpindahan & Kebenaran Bawa Keluarga (dibekalkan); dan
    Borang Perakuan Kesihatan JPA (dibekalkan) atau borang pemeriksaan kesihatan kolej komuniti/ politeknik/ politeknik premier/ universiti awam.

Dokumen di perkara (iii) hingga (xii) di atas hendaklah disahkan oleh pegawai yang berkelayakan. Permohonan dengan dokumen yang tidak lengkap serta tidak memenuhi syarat kelayakan yang ditetapkan tidak akan diproses untuk tujuan pertimbangan.
whirlwind
post Oct 25 2019, 03:12 PM

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QUOTE(alhelmy @ Oct 25 2019, 02:07 PM)
Show me the evidence that Malays demand key positions, scholarships and loans only for the Malays.

The Malays have the largest MPs, naturally they will take the key positions. Scholarships are given on the basis of their birthrights, loans are given based on eligibility. They don't give out loan to every Ahmad, Ali and Abu, if they do so, all Malays will have lots of cash.

Don't know why you complain so much about scholarships, here is a typical govt scholarship, it does not have any restrictions on race. It did require credits in Bahasa Melayu and a band 3 in the Malaysian University English Test (MUET). Could it be the non-bumi are not proficent enough in Bahasa Melayu? And they did not have a band 3 in English since they attend vernacular schools?
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And this is basically why I mentioned I’m talking to multiple alhelmy. You know what...im done wasting my time for today. Probably another day when my mood is better, I’ll show you the evidence of you agreeing on what I’ve mentioned
puchongite
post Oct 27 2019, 09:43 AM

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There are always two facet to the coin. In the eyes in China, and many others Islamic majority countries which are plagued with Islamic-style terrorism, the establishment of occupational training centers as effective ways for eradicating terrorism and protecting human rights.
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2019-10-26/Chine.../share_amp.html

user posted image

Of course, it is more than just occupational training centre. In the package it also includes other approaches which receive many negative comments from the western world.

But I am not aware that any other countries are as effective as China is doing this.

This post has been edited by puchongite: Oct 27 2019, 09:44 AM
puchongite
post Oct 29 2019, 03:46 PM

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The life in Xinjiang :-









And the parents who complain the children are missing :-



Is there a pattern which you can see ? rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by puchongite: Oct 29 2019, 03:47 PM
puchongite
post Oct 29 2019, 09:33 PM

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A wedding gathering of the more open Uighurs in Xinjiang :-



In China you can have as much fun as you like as long as you don't involve in politics other than the communist party.

Unfortunately Islam is quite political, so China government is determined to cripple anything political. More so when religion is used to camouflage the politics. In China one must make sure the religion one practises is 100% personal.
TSramz
post Oct 30 2019, 08:13 AM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ Oct 29 2019, 09:33 PM)
A wedding gathering of the more open Uighurs in Xinjiang :-



In China you can have as much fun as you like as long as you don't involve in politics other than the communist party.

Unfortunately Islam is quite political, so China government is determined to cripple anything political. More so when religion is used to camouflage the politics. In China one must make sure the religion one practises is 100% personal.
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I can understand why China does that. Political religion is a bad idea.

But, this is a subject of Human rights. Human rights is not about having good ideas, is about allowing people the right to have bad ideas as long Human well-being is upheld. In countries like America and England for example, the Constitution does not say that a shariah law cannot be erected. The only thing that is preventing that from happening are the lawmakers themselves. England can potentially be a Muslim country if the lawmakers allow it.

Malaysia is using China's method to stiffle dissent. But they got it opposite (the bad idea side!). Malaysia subtly promotes political Islam. The Constitution (with raja melayus to seal the deal) says you can't propogate other religions than Islam, and islam is part of the administration (deal with it). So, China is like Malaysia in this aspect, but promotes a China version of atheism.

So crux of the question, does political islam promote Human well-being? The world at large don't think much about it, except China which doesn't think so. For me, preserving the rights for people to have bad ideas is of higher weightage than not allowing a bad idea to flourish.

This is the evolving nature of morality. The world is not ready to say islam is immoral, except China. Morality is really a funny beast to reason.

Feel free to challenge me

This post has been edited by ramz: Oct 30 2019, 08:15 AM

 

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