QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 01:23 PM)
But I didn't say that.LYN Christian Fellowship Thread Ver 15
LYN Christian Fellowship Thread Ver 15
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Oct 10 2019, 01:25 PM
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#61
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Oct 10 2019, 01:34 PM
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#62
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Oct 10 2019, 01:47 PM
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#63
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Oct 10 2019, 01:52 PM
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#64
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Oct 10 2019, 01:56 PM
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#65
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Oct 10 2019, 02:03 PM
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#66
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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 01:58 PM) That's why I asked the simple questions which you are evading because I want to know the practical aspect of this statement. Not evading but needed you to completely understand the preposition first of what I've said because otherwise you'll never understand the next explanation.1) Are the 10 Commandments irrelevant now? 2) Does the 10 commandments causes you to sin? Supposing that we both agree God is the one who grants grace to the believer, I'm still waiting for your answers to the above. Many pages back I've already made this statement. People who argue against what I share think by the phrase looking away from 10 commandment = asking you to sin. And I've proven to be right in this. Do you concede that no where am I asking Christians to sin? I need that affirmation first because I really do hate slanders or people putting their words into my mouth. |
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Oct 10 2019, 02:12 PM
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#67
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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 02:08 PM) Yes I agree you didn't ask Christians to sin. But the practical aspect of your teaching is exactly that. Just believe (mental assent) and boom....That's why I'm asking those simple questions. Thank you and you should know by now, there is no ill intention.the very intention of all that I share is to get people "OUT" of sin according to God's word not get in. So would appreciate if you or anyone stop all that buruk prasangka towards me. Yes I will explain but please do remember it's with good intention. Give me a minute. brb |
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Oct 10 2019, 02:33 PM
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#68
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Oct 10 2019, 02:44 PM
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#69
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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 02:38 PM) I will not take kindly to slander and lies propagated by anyone or you. I don't take kindly to what is said that the aspect of my teaching is with intent to ask people to sin. Who are you to put your words into my mouth? *I'm being nice and trying to be open to you and you have the gumption to step on my head. This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 10 2019, 02:47 PM |
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Oct 10 2019, 03:00 PM
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#70
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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 02:48 PM) This has nothing to do with me as moderator for this thread, but you being condescending by your buruk prasangka and that in turn was based on your miscomprehension of how you understand what I teach.This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 10 2019, 03:10 PM |
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Oct 10 2019, 03:48 PM
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#71
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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 10 2019, 03:44 PM) GENESIS.3:6-7 (NKJV) = 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. Erm Nope. they fully understood what was said by God. they knew it would be wrongThe Word of God says you are wrong. Adam only knew that human nakedess was evil/bad(= unlike the good or clothed image of God) after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, not before Adam took the fruit. ....... IOW, Adam only gained moral consciousness of good and evil only after he took the fruit, not before. _______ _______ The Story of the Creation and Fall of Man at GENESIS.1-3: (1) Man was originally created to tend and keep the earth - GENESIS.2:15. Instead, Man has been destroying the earth and at an increasing rate. (2) Woman has been cursed by God to suffer pain during childbirth and emotional rule/abuse from her husband/bf/lover after falling in love with him. ....... In comparison, female animals do not suffer pain in giving birth, eg cows. (3) Man has been cursed by God to suffer laborious work to earn his living and suffer physical death. ....... In comparison, non-domesticated living things and animals do not have to suffer such, especially those that live in forests/jungles that far away from destructive human activities. (4) Satan has been cursed by God to crawl the earth and be at spiritual enmity with Man. Satan/demons' spiritual food is the decaying bodies of Man(= eat dust) as he returns to dust after death = Satan comes to kill, steal and destroy. = Satan has no freedom to do other stuffs as he liked. . Adam and this "new" earth was created by God(GEN.1:1 & 2) to replace a very old earth of Neanderthals and dinosaurs that was ruled by Lucifer, one of God's 3 archangels, before he fell - EZEK.28:14, ISA.14:12, REV.12:4-9. Genesis 3:2-3 (NIV) …2 The woman answered the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden, 3 but of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You must not eat of it or touch it, or you will die.’ |
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Oct 10 2019, 03:58 PM
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#72
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QUOTE(konholio @ Oct 10 2019, 03:53 PM) What Jesus will says when He read this thread? to which I agree and I know where you are coming from.I believe the way to eternal life is not an exam on how much you understand Bible. To be Christian is simple as to know God's love, Jesus died for our sins and to love one another. That's my theology. tq. |
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Oct 10 2019, 04:09 PM
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#73
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Oct 10 2019, 04:16 PM
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#74
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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 04:11 PM) Hebrew for the Old Testament, Greek for the New Testament. Even if the Bible remained only in those languages, there is bound to be different interpretations by different people reading it. You don't have to be sarcastic when even you tried to change the meaningRomans 5:20 (KJV) - Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: You implied sinners occasionally became more guilty by the knowledge of the law but that is not what it says. The word is sin there not sinner. |
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Oct 10 2019, 04:26 PM
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#75
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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 04:20 PM) dude, don't contradict what you're saying here.When you say sinners occasionally became more guilty by the knowledge of the law, that is implying sinner having more conscious of guilt not unless you're agreeing with me that the law will cause them to commit more sin. So which is it now? |
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Oct 10 2019, 04:32 PM
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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 10 2019, 04:29 PM) Thanks be to God for allowing the Holy Bible to be translated into the English language from its original written language, in order that an uneducated person like me can understand. As long as this poor man call and our Lord answers my call, I think that should be alright. Note of interest, google William Tyndale.I have to say that I do admire others that go to the extreme in learning Hebrew or Greek, just to understand the Holy Bible in its original form. Well, as long as our God answers all of our call in times of distress, praise be to God. |
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Oct 11 2019, 08:13 AM
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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 10 2019, 05:11 PM) Nope, I will not agree with you saying that the 10 Commandments causes them to commit more sin. Christians know the 10 Commandments, which is the most basic summary of God's moral teaching, which is even summed up further by Christ into two because the 10 Commandments in essence first 3 relates to God, the subsequent 7 relates to our neighbours. "He that is dead is justified from sin" (Rom 6:7) Don't side track. You seem to contradict yourself a lot. When you like to claim others of interpretation problem, seems like you're the one trying very hard to make what Romans 5:20 is not saying.St Paul having told the Romans they must be dead to sin, lead a new life. He now encourages them to it, by telling them, that what is required of them is not above their human strength, as it is assisted by those graces which God offers them, and which they have received, i.e. by being baptised in His death. "But thanks be to God, that you were the servants of sin but have obeyed from the heart unto that form of doctrine into which you have been delivered. 18Being then freed from sin, we have been made servants of justice." 14 "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Some of the Roman Christians were formerly Jews observing the the Mosaic law., but now all of them are under grace, or the law of grace, where they may find pardon for their sins. Does it say anything about ignore the 10 Commandments? If yes, how could the apostle tell them "12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof." If they do not know the 10 Commandments how would they know what is sin and what is not? 13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. (Rom 5) 20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. (Rom 5) Here it says the law entered, not the one given. The law were not given purposely for sin to abound; but that it so happened, through man's perversity, taking occasion of sinning more, from the prohibition of sin. So are you still saying the 10 Commandments are not relevant anymore? Causes people to sin more? To make an analogy, it's like you are saying the traffic rules are given to cause drivers to break them more. Perverse indeed. Romans 5:20 (KJV) - Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, It is what it is, the word sin there in the Greek is Harmatia which means missing the mark (action). It is not sinner having guilt of sin and neither is the word entered differs from the one given in mount sinai. It is NOT referring to any other laws but the law of the OT. It is the very same sin that talks about the fall of Man. Don't believe me? Read the whole references from Romans 5:12-21. If you are ever so bold to think you can change the meaning of God's word, then do tell all of us in here, the phrase entered in refers to which law? go ahead answer that. Besides, what you said on Romans 6:14 (KJV) 14 "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Testify this to be true. Sin is only empowered under law. The word for in the Greek = Gar which basically means "Because", meaning don't bound yourself to it. This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 11 2019, 09:08 AM |
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Oct 11 2019, 08:18 AM
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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 10 2019, 11:01 PM) . You do understand the meaning of right and wrong vs good evil and the difference of it?. QUOTE(unknownwarrior) Erm Nope. they fully understood what was said by God. they knew it would be wrong. Genesis 3:2-3 (NIV) …2 The woman answered the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden, 3 but of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden, God has said, ‘You must not eat of it or touch it, or you will die.’ Err Nope. Adam and Eve only knew it would be wrong because God had said His 1st-ever commandment to Adam, ie GENESIS.2:16-17 = 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” They knew not because of any built-in moral consciousness when they were created by God. They knew this commandment from God but they did not know the reason behind it because they did not have the knowledge of good and evil. Same reason they did not know that their nakedness was evil/bad, unlike the fully-clothed God or His image. Again the Word of God says you are wrong, ....... GENESIS.3:22 = 22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— Good day. They understood that it is wrong to eat, they knew they would die. Maybe I can paraphrase this, if God told them if they cut themselves with sharp object and told them they will bleed, that is what they understood. Reason is another matter altogether, though I understand what you're trying to say. If you want to claim they were too innocent to know what is what, I would beg to differ because Adam was brought by God to see what he would name each creature created. That shows Adam understand what was ask from God and wasn't just a passive robotic don't know what is what. Prior to the fall, I believe they were not truly naked in a sense, they were covered with God's glory. This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 11 2019, 08:47 AM |
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Oct 11 2019, 08:46 AM
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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 11 2019, 07:37 AM) HEBREWS.8:7-13 (NKJV) = A New Covenant That is not true. Paul rebuked on the matter of circumcision of them still trying to adhere to one of the 613 laws. Where do you get your theology from?7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. _______ _______ We have to cross-reference HEB.10:15-16 with HEB.8:7-13 to get the true interpretation and correct context. ....... God made His Old Covenant with the Jews through Moses. Then God originally made His New Covenant with the Jews of the house of Israel and Judah through Jesus Christ, and not with the Gentiles. The Jews were already well-versed with His laws/commandments, not with the Gentiles. The New Covenant was later extended to the Gentiles through apostle Paul. So, "My laws" at HEBREWS above referred to the 613 laws of Moses Law as applied to the Jews of the house of Israel and Judah, and not just the well-known 10 Commandments or built-in moral consciousness as applied to later Gentile believers. For Gentile Christians, God had lovingly exempted them from the burdensome parts of Moses Law or His laws at ACTS.15:19-29 & 21:20-25, ROMANS.14:1-4, eg they did not have to be circumcised, eat only kosher/clean foods, etc. God required them to begin their new born-again spiritual babes-in-Christ lives by keeping just 4 simple, non-burdensome or essential laws of Moses, ie avoid eating blood, strangled animal sacrifice, foods offered to idols and committing sexual immorality. Thereafter, they should gradually learn to keep the other non-burdensome or essential laws of God, especially morality laws, eg the 10 Commandments, DEUT.18:9-14, LEV.10:9, etc. This was how God implanted His laws into the hearts and minds of most new Gentile Christians adults. In comparison, having easily implanted His laws, God required new Jewish Christians like the 12 apostles, to continue to keep His laws, as many of the 613 laws as possible, because they were not a burden to them. Before conversion, most Gentiles do not know the actual 10 Commandments at EXODUS.20:1-17, even though they may have heard about it. ROMANS.11:16-24 said that the Gentiles had been the branch of a wild olive tree that was grafted into the Jews' branch of a natural olive tree; and warned that Gentile Christians could be cut off from the grafted wild branch if they did not continue in His goodness = they continued in Satan's evilness or lawlessness - cf; 1COR.6:9-11. It is common sense that God could easily implant His laws into the hearts and mind of believing Jews, compared to believing Gentiles because most Gentiles had led wild or lawless lives from childhood - cf; 2TIM.3:14-17. It is false to say that God can easily implant His laws into the hearts and mind of new Gentile Christians because they had been born with moral consciousness and the 10 Commandments is well known among the Gentile public. . . |
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Oct 11 2019, 08:49 AM
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#80
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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 11 2019, 07:37 AM) But this fact about salvation does not mean that the Law has been destroyed or done away with by Jesus Christ because the Law is still needed to help guide a Christian's remaining life on earth, especially for God to implant His non-burdensome laws into the heart and mind of the new Gentile Christian, as per HEB.8:10-11. I don't agree. You need to study more for the purpose and the design of God's law. as to what I'm arguing with Yeeck. . We need to differentiate between involuntary sinning-in-thoughts and voluntary sinning-in-deeds. Eg of the former = immoral thoughts/desires of sexual lust, hate, anger, greed, selfishness, jealousy, fear/worry, doubt, etc. Eg of the latter = murder, adultery, stealing, bearing false witness, etc. The former sin may lead to or bear fruit into the latter sins.The spiritual source of the involuntary former sin is Satan through the resultant curse of Adam's Original Sin. ....... The former involuntary sinning-in-thoughts results in Man being hell-bound or spiritual death after physical death. The latter voluntary sinning-in-deeds results in being cursed by God with a calamitous, sad and short life on earth. The cure for both sin-problems is the Word(= including His laws/commandments) or Jesus Christ.{/I] As for Guidance on morality of course we don't transgress against what is written in the 10 commandment but my point we no longer look to it as a point of justification. Why? because it was never design for that but the opposite. With that being said, we need to look away from it This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 11 2019, 09:48 AM |
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