Another mistake in saying "CREDIT INFORMATION".
CTOS don't list CREDIT INFORMATION.
CTOS only COLLECTS PUBLISHED PUBLICLY AVAILABLE LEGAL NOTICE.
Try to differentiate it.
Somemore, CTOS did informed that not necessary records are updated UPFRONT.
So who to blame?.....the buyer/subscriber who buys/subscribes to CTOS service EVENTHOUGH they know that the records might not be updated and used it or still it's CTOS fault?!

If someone eventually saw your friend's legal notice published in the paper; than what?.....you guys blame the paper for publishing it out?!....GROW UP!
It's not glorifying CTOS, as no one is doing that here. It's just consumer has the wrong perceptions on how it works and blames the wrong party.
Like I mentioned in another thread...Think Logical! Analyse and see who's to blame. Understand the situation.

Again, citing on your example; especially no2; cos no1 is not possible like I mentioned.
What makes you think the other company wouldn't check CTOS themselves and it's the competitors who "framed" your friend.
Okie, maybe the competitor did that. But than again WHAT IF the company finds out themselves...so what??...Blame CTOS again?! Okie....let me put it this way; if the company happened to find out your friend's is previous listed for whatever reason; and it's not from CTOS, but other sources....than what?!....blame that particular sources?!

Now again, ask yourself if you're dealing in a business deal. You find out that the other business party you're dealing with was blacklisted ok, don't sat blacklist; say was in trouble before (eg. maybe owe couple of other companies before but eventually settled); would you have confidence in dealing with that particular said company?!....
Like everyone is saying TALAM is bad....so what's TALAM going to do??....sue everyone?! Even if TALAM changed and have better QC, so what??......TALAM would always be remembered for bad quality finishes and consumer would be cautious about that.

In real life world; once you've done wrong; you'll always be remembered as doing something worng no matter how many good things you've done. That's life!

Adsolutely true. During a construction tender exercise years ago, two contractors was competing seriously against each. One fine day, one of them came to see me with a CTOS list of his competitor showing all the legal cases he has having with his supplier. All this happened during the 97 crisis when almost everyone was having financial squezze. The thing is, both of these two company are really expert in their own field and it is difficult to choose any of the other one. The chap who showed me his competitor CTOS listing was actually the one with a higher tender value and he was trying to discredit his competitor with his so called bad records and hoping the tender will go to him even though his cost his higher so he can profit more. Poor credit management doesnt means somebody or someone is poor in his job which he does well. Therefore, information like this is highly detrimental when use with prejudice. And suprisingly, people are now using CTOS to frightened you e.g pay up or i will see you in CTOS. Why is CTOS being so influential now? The service of CTOS has been grossly misused and mistreated. Its about time that CTOS be closed indefinitely.

This post has been edited by dvng: Jul 6 2007, 12:54 PM

I'm saying real life mates...
like what do you think of TALAM's houses like I mentioned...
also.....Direct sales or MLM??.......
than tell me your truthful answer...

Like I said also previously; it's up to the party that held your CTOS to be discretions in their actions (same as you do in your quoted example). CTOS serve only as a provider of information.

So what?...you're going to close down the whole police force as ppl would still threaten others who don't pay that they would go to the police or lawyer to sue their ass off....

And btw, don't you agree ppl remembers 1 thing that you done wrong more than a thousand things you've done right?! Ask yourself to your heart. Not to based it all on morales and all.

Racist or no racist I dare to honestly speak up my mind and tell you that I do have my reservation if someone dealing with me is listed or previously had shown bad records before. Given 2nd chance or not is based on my further investigation. So don't simply shoot me down if you do act that way. I guessed you wouldn't act like that as certainly you wouldn't investigate more on the case whereby the competitor furnish you with all the CTOS listing. So enough accusation; did you or did you not investigate further on the allegation and find out why the particular company is listed in CTOS in the first place than only you choose which company to deal with. Or did you just brush aways the chap and since he's trying to frame the other party; with your high morality you reject that chap straight away and didn't investigate straight away sign up with the other company listed in CTOS?!

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Added on July 6, 2007, 2:35 pmbtw, I work in a bank as a risk analyst and the bank process many applications per day; more than thousands.
The bank needs a tools to mitigate risk and CTOS happens to be one of the tools. and you can't blame the bank for generalising as after analyzing we found that those ever listed has higher tendency to default.
Somemore with tons of applications per day; no bank can afford to judge an applications 1 by 1; thus a general reject rules is being set. Like for us; for minor records listing (i.e. summons) in CTOS more than 5 years; we disregard it. But bankruptcy cases listed in CTOS; we'll take it seriously and rejects. All this policy doesn't come by by just snapping fingers. All this policies is being done after doing analysis and studies.
Many thinks the banks are against them.......but they doesn't understand that bank's appetite for risk is unlike ah long! Basically bank's don't like risk. Somemore, we can't have any risk based pricing; if not we'll approve this guys with higher APR (interest).
So unless the case is being appealed, we'll reject outright. If you work as an underwriter or risk analyst as me; you'll know and understand why we need to rely on generalisation.

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Added on July 6, 2007, 3:45 pmpls all check CTOS website: http://www.ctos.com.my/ FAQ to have better insight and I've checked the particular page and found that it's last updated on:Wednesday, July 21, 2004 11:38:43 PM
So all this while it's been claiming to be 'Lead Information System' which denotes:
To provide 'information lead' for the purpose of discovery and insight to past record to aid in process of decision making.
again they further commented in this FAQ:

so attacks should be towards FIs and not CTOS.

This post has been edited by b00n: Jul 6 2007, 03:45 PM

CTOS is just collection of records that is "PUBLICALLY" available. Hence, if you want you can compile and start your own company.

As for Banks, it is a lending business that is using "PUBLIC FUNDS" which means every Tom, d*** and Harry monies in the Bank.

If Banks don't have any resources to screen thru applications, you would ended up with those earlier days where BNM had to save Banks from going bust.

So many complains on the CTOS... I wonder if there's any credit repair service that would help people improve their credit record in Msia ?

the Government Agency...
AKPK which acts a counsellor to help one's manage their current debts.
Than they will help propose to the banks that the particular customer would pay so and so amount within so and so tenor.
But believe me; sometimes the proposal is ridiculuos to the max.
But since it's a government set-up; no one can deny it.
*sigh*

not so simple..if you collect public info for yourself it is ok..if you are collecting public info and sellin it without first making sure it is accurate, recent and verified you will end up being sue for slander and violating data protection act. That's where CTOS ended up. So make sure what you are sellin is legitimate and accurate. No disclaimer is going to get you out of the rut. Information is a powerful tool, it can be used for good or against somebody. If the information is flawed, then you need to be careful of what you are sellin. Just like sellin drugs withot MMA approval.

if u read trough it's obejctive.....and made known to everyone that it's only a "lead information" provider.
I.e. someone can get a lead on something and do further investigation.
Without a source or lead; would you know a person is bankrupt or being served bankrupt notice before?!
thousands of appplication comes in the bank per day; how to screen through all??.....go to the courts and enquire one by one?(i guess the court clerks would also say f@rk off) or based on leads that filter out some and do further investigations?!

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Added on July 7, 2007, 1:08 pmagain, your target should not be against CTOS, it's against the FIs and their policies.
Even without CTOS, there's bound to be other method for FIs to regulate their policy on. Than what??....blame the new source?!
btw, for all's information....there's another company or system which the banks used....BASIS; wonder when will it get into the lime light.....
Just that CTOS is more popular; it's being targeted.

This post has been edited by b00n: Jul 7 2007, 01:08 PM

Just wonder.....
1) if CTOS is that bad and unethical then why it exist at the beginning ???
2) Who approved them to operate such services ???
3) Where does CTOS get those creditor or debtor information ??? Who provide to them ???
4) If Financial Institution (Bank and Financce company and Others) said they don't depend on CTOS information or evaluation, then why engage CTOS services ???

at the end, it is still a myth..... unsolve mystery.....

Item 4...Beats me..the FI's were probably just covering their ass..by saying that they dont rely on CTOS..it was CTOS info that prejudiced their decision..so they conveniently deflect the problem to CTOS..so rather than doing their own investigation which could be exceedingly time consuming..the officer's in the FI's will just reject your application as long as it's listing is CTOS positive..if CTOS still exist..then the chances of people abusing the 'lead information' will still persist. Ultimately, the way I look it..CTOS may have to be closed..until such act and regulations be put in place..the concept of providing lead information at the moment may be put on hold..I dont think even if CTOS doesnt exist there will a dearth of approval of loans, the officers in the FI"s will probably need to be more diligent in its decision making...

good for background checks..

CTOS has been in existence for 20 years but only now has it been an issue...i can only imagine how much money it has made all these years; i can hazard a guess that it stepped on the wrong toes, or has fallen out of favour with those in power, and now it has to pay the price!

all the juicy fillers in the story is for show only! and i guess there'll be more politicization of the issue with the elections coming...

it falls out of favor when a certain Datuk can't get a loan because his name is listed in CTOS as he was being pursued before for legal actions.
also, it got collective 'lead information' on at least 30% of the ministers in the ministry's office.
again the said Datuk who's opposing CTOS had been using CTOS all this while...
hmmmm......tell me about conspiracy!

CTOS is lying.........................................

my credit history in CTOS stating credit card debt etc r the ones from the banks........

that means the the financial institution themselves supply the info to the CTOS

its true the damn CTOS did informed those stupid users of ctos database that not necessary records are updated UPFRONT.

but if you apply loans from institution using damn CTOS.... the damn CTOS database show your bad credit... but actually you already clear your name with the creditors.... you have to actually provide yourself proof that you ve cleared ur debt... u have to do it ur self... just because the damn ctos didnt clear ur name...

I myself got this troubled making loan with MBSB........... I have to call several creditors including Singer just to get
letter proving that my debt already clear.......................... so it takes another month to clear my name.....
but CTOS didnt... becuase they said that clearing my name in the database is not their responsibilities... If I want then I have to f***ing pay them...................... f***......

somebody hackers out there.... plz.......... hack this CTOS database......

or any abu sayyaf bombers plzzz bomb this CTOS

did you settle your creditors before you apply for financing with MBSB ?

Hmm.. MBSB, interesting. Meditate on this I must.

I thought this CTOS case is dying a slow death now suddenly someone came in and bring up the issue again.

First again, show me proves that CTOS stating your credit card debts. Maybe u just hide certain information and scan it so everyone can view. Just to prove that you're correct and I don't have the correct information.
Credit card debt...yes; you'll get listed for that if the card company pursue legal actions on you.

Again, what do you meant by "apply loans from institution using damn CTOS" I don't get you here.

To stress this again, CTOS collects information that is being published. So once when you settled with your creditors; if they never published it so where does CTOS get the information from? So blame CTOS or your creditors?! Get the facts right pls.

After you get the release latter from your creditors; than provide it to CTOS to delete your record. It's not for CTOS to look into everyones case from time to time and check. So many cases, you meant CTOS is to check everyone's cases daily to see whether or not it's being updated?

Btw, companies like Singers are not listed in CCRIS. So by removing the service of CTOS, I guessed everyone can start owing Courts Mammoth, Singers, Carrefour etc....and don't have to pay....
Again your name wouldn't be in CTOS if these companies didn't pursue legal action on you.

So dear sir, to prove me wrong pls scan your copy of CTOS record you claimed you've seen and lets debate again.

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Added on August 15, 2007, 10:58 ambtw, there's a more detailed discussion in RWI.
So pls proceed there to see more debates and explanation.

CTOS GONNA BE BAN?, Public view on Ctos sought (Social Issues)

This post has been edited by b00n: Aug 15 2007, 10:58 AM

Hi there

I do agree with Datuk Kayveas with some of his point - The economy can be affected when banks and credit providers, such as finance firms, tighten credit facilities based on the records in Ctos.

May be you guys don't know that not only loan application cannot be approved if your name is in the CTOS list, it's sad to say that you can't even open a Current Account in any bank if your name is inside the CTOS list. What kinda theory is this ? People wanted to keep their money inside the bank also have to go through CTOS ??!? Since these people already have debts, they are already have difficulties in their life, but why the CTOS & the bank still put in more pressures on them ? Why can't just give them a small possibility opportunity to do some business and to recover and to settle their debts slowly? Why must pust them to the end side?

Furthermore how can those bank judge a person's finance status/reputation by just according a silly reference list from CTOS ? How true and how reliable the CTOS is ? If it's so reliable, there won't be so many complaints regarding their system is not updated & etc. From other bloggers stated that CTOS is making RM8 million per year of profit, is this true ? Why are they suppose to make profit ? The bank charge the loan applicant for the searchings and as a result the consumer has to bear the costs, and why we must pay these charges to the only 'private company'?

I agree that the economy can be affected when the banks and credit providers tighten the credit facilities for the applicant, that can make a poor person to become even poorer person. Our government officers keep on condemn and tries various way to stop Shark Loan, but why they still can't find out the reason why Malaysian wants to borrow money from shark loan ? I doubt that it's 100% all because of soccer bettings/gamble. Many should know that this will ended up with more and more security problems when the citizens has no money to pay. Besides, since it's known that 1/3 of the citizens is inside the CTOS list, why the bank and the related parties don't do something to loosen the citizen's problem ? Why the bank only concentrate on making profits and only care how many million they earn per year instead of helping the citizens such like offering a lower interest rate and longer return period for those people who owes or who needs money ? If the economy and security become even worse, I think there won't be any benefit to anyone of us..do you agree ?

For those who think that those blacklister are deserved, you should not think like that. I believe that they are just not matured enough to manage their financial stuff when they are young. They don't know how to plan what they should spend and what they shouldn't spend. Some of them they are greedy, but why they are greedy? Is it because they are not well taught in the school or not well educated by their parents for not to be greed? If so, that's not all of their fault..Some people RM100 is enough to spend for a week, but why some needs RM100 to spend for a day? Their thinking and living style already with them for years and years, you cant judge them with only one or two or three mistakes that they did before, they also need the opportunity to grow up and to climb up, but is this opportunity given? We should symphatise and help people who needs..For those people who condemn them as deserved, is it because their house used to be bigger than yours and their cars used to be luxury than yours ? Forget about it, if the country is rich, citizens's financial problem is OK too, you will never have any worries when walking on the street at any time, you don't have to fix so many CCTV at your home, you can travel with your 5 or 7 Series without any affairs. I know that to help is not that simple and easy, but at least try instead of criticise and make their life even difficult.

I had forgotten since started when till today I dislike to read the main section of the newspaper.

Just my 2 cents worth of view.

Good luck mate.

Regards

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Added on August 21, 2007, 9:21 pmSome views to add,

What's the purpose of having a Bank in our country? I believe that it's because of our govenment appoint them and expect them to provide reasonable services to the citizens to help them to a better living and to improve our country's economy. But now it seems like the bank having different goals and different opinion like what we and the government expect/hope.

They always come with full of silly services charges. We keep money inside the bank yet still have to pay services charges. We appoint third party to withdraw money yet have to pay unreasonable service charges. and I also heard that if we keep a quantity of money inside and the bank suddenly bankrupt, as a result we can't take back the full amount, is that true ?







This post has been edited by Hakkinen: Aug 21 2007, 09:21 PM

Sorry but your views had all being debunked on a more organised debates in the other thread which I've provided.
But still I need to correct you on Bank "solely" rely on CTOS which is not true.
CTOS is just merely a point for reference. Further checks would be conducted depending on CTOS matches.
Again, CCRIS is already a must for FI (Financial Institute) to look up reference on what we called "Credit Worthiness".
CTOS is to check on whether or not any institution or companies had made legal actions against somebody who defaulted their payment.
Again, another misconception that you had on CTOS being the only reference company in town. I would quote you another one that most FI is also using i.e. BRIS
Another good read in Jeff Ooi's blog:
http://www.jeffooi.com/2007/07/ctosbashing..._the_beef_2.php


again, you might want to blame the FI instead of CTOS.
FI is the main culprit like you put it.
The thread provided in my previous post also did voiced out on this issues regarding profit searching FIs.

Do a read-up when you're free........

This post has been edited by b00n: Aug 22 2007, 12:24 AM

o yeh that shit head Jeff Ooi..... hopefully one day gov would arrest him under ISA

again I call upon all hackers around the world........

PLZ HACK CTOS DATABASE
PLZ HACK CTOS DATABASE
PLZ HACK CTOS DATABASE
PLZ HACK CTOS DATABASE

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Added on August 23, 2007, 3:09 pmI also think b00n is currently got some shares in CTOS ... same like those in Bank Negara.....

that's why they defend the CTOS... If not believe me just call the complaint dept of Bank Negara by the name of Pn Siti.....
She would probably blame CTOS and putting the blame on kayveas

This post has been edited by hajilosong: Aug 23 2007, 03:09 PM

bro, based on your intelligence, I guess I don't mind you calling names here...
If you are to read up the previous threads on this which I had already provided...there's lots of debates and discussion carried out.
Understand that first before commenting.
Use the points not agreeable to you after you've read and voiced it out instead of showing "shallow mind" quality in calling names and remarks like:
hahaha....
Again I worked in a bank like I posted before (if you are ever going to read and do research); I've also mentioned that it's the bank's policy which is at fault and not CTOS....

Try do some research and read up first...
No need google; go look at our previous debates and discussion where some pages also show extensive write ups on data privacy acts.

shoo....go read pls.......

Also, I would appreciate as a sane ppl and inviting discussion, pls quote which point you don't agree. Especially the explanation to your query which I thought I already mentioned clearly.
So pls tell me which is wrong or got problem so I may change my way of expression........

before I forgot, what does jeff ooi had done to you to deserve the "shit head" comment fro you?
if it's the article I linked; it's not from him, he just helped to post from one of his readers....

This post has been edited by b00n: Aug 23 2007, 03:26 PM