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 My former DOS empire... until Windows destroyed it, I still cannot forget the good old days

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TSCreamSauce
post Aug 7 2019, 11:20 PM, updated 5y ago

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Was working on Visual Studio 2017 for few months, learned some basic Xamarin forms, and picked up C# by setting aside my long-time favourite VB.NET.

A few days ago, I downloaded 5.5 GB of Visual Studio 2019 with key features. Upon opening the IDE, my eyes were wandering, was it because Microsoft developers had cramped too many functions into their IDE?

The time machine travelled back to 1998... I recall several scenes. I was sitting in front of a blue-colour monitor. That was the usual colour of Turbo Pascal 7 IDE. I was building my DOS empire at that time.

1. Audio Player and Recorder: Yes, 8-bit direct access to Sound Blaster 16. (Happily bought a Sound Blaster 16 programming guide for RM 10 at that time)
2. Image & Video Format. Yes, 320x200x256 low resolution graphical output. I invented my own compression-less image (DLP) and video format (DLV), also with their respective converter (e.g. PCX to DLP) and player.
3. Text Screen Capture: Yes, a TSR for users to capture text screen in the background and automatically save as file.
4. Font Manipulation: Yes, I even had a font editor and loader to customize the 256 of ASCII characters.
5. Programming Language: Yes. It was my own compiler which generated 8-bit CPU machine code as .COM executable.
6. Utilities: Yes, address book / calculator / files cleaner / disk copier / Text-to-HTML converter.......etc
...I was like almost building my own Operating Environment (NOT operating system) in text mode under DOS platform.

But I forgot that the ICT is trending fast in the glimpse of an eye. Microsoft is slowing eliminating DOS from its Windows solution and users cannot run legacy DOS programs in 64-bit Windows nowadays.

It destroyed my DOS empire, but in a good way, that it benefits millions others, with operating systems which deliver higher performance, and better user experience.

While this thread is nothing coding-specific, I would like advice on how to adapt to IT ever-changing world, and slowly forget about DOS era.
It is true that I have tried to adapt to IT in stages:
2000 ~ 2003: I worked as Psion OPL cum Symbian C++ programmer, where Psion UK shut their consumer market in 2003 and Symbian has had the same fate...
2004 ~ 2008: Mostly VB6 + MSSQL + CR, I was involved in business software solution, e.g. POS, SMS (School Management System). (As you might already know, VB6 or classic VB is no longer relevant nowadays)

....Basically I am not a programmer who works in office now, but I still consider myself a hobbyist programmer.

I am sorry folks, too difficult for me to forget the yesteryear, especially almost entire of my efforts have gone in vain. Not to mention a few utilities I developed for Windows 3.11 using VB2 and VB3. cry.gif


malleus
post Aug 8 2019, 11:35 PM

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Well, between 2008-2011, we were doing a lot of custom video workflow work using Final Cut Server. Was doing the SAN storage setup needed for the video storage too. Invested quite heavily into it too, Mac Pro test servers, and Xsan storage as well as our test systems before doing deployments to our clients.

Then Apple announced end of life for Final Cut Server. That's when I decided to jump onto mobile application development on iOS, since we already have the Apple machines to work with anyways.
WongGei
post Aug 9 2019, 01:01 AM

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You are welcomed to the world of linux.
TSCreamSauce
post Aug 9 2019, 06:42 PM

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QUOTE(malleus @ Aug 8 2019, 11:35 PM)
.....Then Apple announced end of life for Final Cut Server. That's when I decided to jump onto mobile application development on iOS.....
*
Sad to hear, but fortunately iOS is still stable now.....
TSCreamSauce
post Aug 9 2019, 06:44 PM

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QUOTE(WongGei @ Aug 9 2019, 01:01 AM)
You are welcomed to the world of linux.
*
Too late for me to catch up. I would say I am more of a Linux end user......
AnimeSinceForever
post Aug 9 2019, 11:09 PM

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It's still around for people with the knowhow and interest.

And some of the DOS games have gone to GoodOldGames.

Older systems have compatibility and complete network accessibility on their side, with the right software.

Higher performance is also relative. Not being able to play your old games, I consider that a negative.

QUOTE(CreamSauce @ Aug 7 2019, 11:20 PM)
Was working on Visual Studio 2017 for few months, learned some basic Xamarin forms, and picked up C# by setting aside my long-time favourite VB.NET.

A few days ago, I downloaded 5.5 GB of Visual Studio 2019 with key features. Upon opening the IDE, my eyes were wandering, was it because Microsoft developers had cramped too many functions into their IDE?

The time machine travelled back to 1998... I recall several scenes.  I was sitting in front of a blue-colour monitor. That was the usual colour of Turbo Pascal 7 IDE.  I was building my DOS empire at that time.

1. Audio Player and Recorder: Yes, 8-bit direct access to Sound Blaster 16.  (Happily bought a Sound Blaster 16 programming guide for RM 10 at that time)
2. Image & Video Format. Yes, 320x200x256 low resolution graphical output.  I invented my own compression-less image (DLP) and video format (DLV), also with their respective converter (e.g. PCX to DLP) and player.
3. Text Screen Capture: Yes, a TSR for users to capture text screen in the background and automatically save as file.
4. Font Manipulation: Yes, I even had a font editor and loader to customize the 256 of ASCII characters.
5. Programming Language: Yes.  It was my own compiler which generated 8-bit CPU machine code as .COM executable.
6. Utilities: Yes, address book / calculator / files cleaner / disk copier / Text-to-HTML converter.......etc
...I was like almost building my own Operating Environment (NOT operating system) in text mode under DOS platform.

But I forgot that the ICT is trending fast in the glimpse of an eye. Microsoft is slowing eliminating DOS from its Windows solution and users cannot run legacy DOS programs in 64-bit Windows nowadays.

It destroyed my DOS empire, but in a good way, that it benefits millions others, with operating systems which deliver higher performance, and better user experience.

While this thread is nothing coding-specific, I would like advice on how to adapt to IT ever-changing world, and slowly forget about DOS era.
It is true that I have tried to adapt to IT in stages:
2000 ~ 2003: I worked as Psion OPL cum Symbian C++ programmer, where Psion UK shut their consumer market in 2003 and Symbian has had the same fate...
2004 ~ 2008: Mostly VB6 + MSSQL + CR, I was involved in business software solution, e.g. POS, SMS (School Management System). (As you might already know, VB6 or classic VB is no longer relevant nowadays)

....Basically I am not a programmer who works in office now, but I still consider myself a hobbyist programmer.

I am sorry folks, too difficult for me to forget the yesteryear, especially almost entire of my efforts have gone in vain. Not to mention a few utilities I developed for Windows 3.11 using VB2 and VB3.  cry.gif
*
TSCreamSauce
post Aug 10 2019, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(AnimeSinceForever @ Aug 9 2019, 11:09 PM)
It's still around for people with the knowhow and interest.

And some of the DOS games have gone to GoodOldGames.

Older systems have compatibility and complete network accessibility on their side, with the right software.

Higher performance is also relative. Not being able to play your old games, I consider that a negative.
*
Yes, old DOS games are still able to be played through archive.org.

I agree there are still companies using DOS-based system, but fewer.


AnimeSinceForever
post Aug 10 2019, 11:09 PM

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Was talking about playing natively.

Archive.org is just using a wrapper around DOSbox actually.

Right now many nukes around the world still working through DOS ...

as for banking, that's still COBOL ... but the shiny front terminals are Windows 7.

A lot of old stuff is still in use, but consumers are being told that technology moves very fast.

QUOTE(CreamSauce @ Aug 10 2019, 11:06 PM)
Yes, old DOS games are still able to be played through archive.org.

I agree there are still companies using DOS-based system, but fewer.
*
TSCreamSauce
post Aug 10 2019, 11:51 PM

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QUOTE(AnimeSinceForever @ Aug 10 2019, 11:09 PM)
Was talking about playing natively.

Archive.org is just using a wrapper around DOSbox actually.

Right now many nukes around the world still working through DOS ...

as for banking, that's still COBOL ... but the shiny front terminals are Windows 7.

A lot of old stuff is still in use, but consumers are being told that technology moves very fast.
*
I am glad to hear that... but I was not aware of any job vacancy of DOS programmer (other than Cobol, maybe). Ten years ago, there was an automation company (who built alarm gate?) wanted assembler programmer....

Please let me know of any business opportunity in DOS, if you know any.

Many years ago, got one guy from East Malaysia wanted me to build a simple retail POS for him, but because of complexity of the project and he could only afford few hundreds ringgit for it, at last I abandoned the project.
Imagine, with Turbo Pascal and Turbo Vision (the UI library), I have to define X & Y, and width & height of each buttons, radio buttons, text box, labels on the dialog box, which is not drag-and-drop like today's. I mean I will do it out of my own interest, or do it for others at a reasonable price. (not RM 200 ~ 300 for a retail POS project, even if it is DOS-based)
AnimeSinceForever
post Aug 11 2019, 03:33 PM

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Many of those jobs are shoved off to people who know the owners, as far as I can tell.

I know what you mean about people trying to get software from you on the cheap ... once Alcassoft tried to get me to give them my source code in exchange for a job.

I wonder how many companies got their technical leadership from smart people looking for a job, they told those people "give me your source code" and then didn't follow through on a job or fired them right after. Lots of nasty people in the world.

QUOTE(CreamSauce @ Aug 10 2019, 11:51 PM)
I am glad to hear that... but I was not aware of any job vacancy of DOS programmer (other than Cobol, maybe). Ten years ago, there was an automation company (who built alarm gate?) wanted assembler programmer....

Please let me know of any business opportunity in DOS, if you know any.

Many years ago, got one guy from East Malaysia wanted me to build a simple retail POS for him, but because of complexity of the project and he could only afford few hundreds ringgit for it, at last I abandoned the project.
Imagine, with Turbo Pascal and Turbo Vision (the UI library), I have to define X & Y, and width & height of each buttons, radio buttons, text box, labels on the dialog box, which is not drag-and-drop like today's.  I mean I will do it out of my own interest, or do it for others at a reasonable price. (not RM 200 ~ 300 for a retail POS project, even if it is DOS-based)
*
cikelempadey
post Aug 14 2019, 12:00 AM

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nice. old skool programmer. i was learning assembly as a hobby mainly because i was interested on how game trainer worked. today still coding in assembly but for very highly specific purpose, mainly to modify behaviour of existing program where user doesn't have access to the source code anymore.


Mussel
post Sep 10 2019, 01:30 PM

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Some screenshots.....

Designed for electronics hobbyist.....
Attached Image

Designed using Turbo Pascal + Turbo Vision.
Attached Image
[attachmentid=10312999]
Attached Image

You can download them if you want but can only run in DOS emulator. (Link will be given upon request)

This post has been edited by Mussel: Sep 10 2019, 07:27 PM
SUSjbcoder
post Sep 18 2019, 01:40 PM

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Just adapt. Not that hard. What's hard is keeping up with framework trends.
I went from Turbo Pascal (with asm) -> Turbo C/C++ -> Watcom C/C++ -> Visual Studio-> Java/C# to web with php/javascript/asp.net and also mobile j2me then to Android.
But this actually counts AGAINST me in my resume because recruiters can spot an old fart if you have too many skills listed.
It's better to be freelancer or run your own micropreneur startup instead.
For modern tech I am mostly focusing on mobile using native android or flutter and for web I focus on vue.js with php/asp.net backend or perhaps nodejs.
Hardly any need to code desktop apps anymore unless client require legacy desktop app maintenance.
Even then I think JavaFX with java is a good option to consider.

Software development tools nowadays are inherently easier nowadays due to abundant of tools.


The big huge problem is there's just too many of them that different employers have different requirement/requests and you have to either pick one or try to know all of them, which is a chore.

Also employers nowadays demand exact skillsets and do not look for 'potentials'. Most of them don't even know how to conduct interviews and end up always complaining they cannot find the right candidate.

Some are outright ageist, won't hire anyone above 40. Then there're also the ones that are outright racist demanding mandarin read/write/speaker. As a bananaman even I couldn't qualify even if I am a Chinese.


Imagine being cast out by own Chinese for not being able to read/write mandarin. Those of us Chinese who graduated from SK would be discriminated by those from SJK. Been there experienced that in addition to ageism by Chinese school educated grads.


Mussel
post Sep 19 2019, 09:16 PM

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QUOTE(jbcoder @ Sep 18 2019, 01:40 PM)
Just adapt. Not that hard. What's hard is keeping up with framework trends.
I went from Turbo Pascal (with asm) -> Turbo C/C++ -> Watcom C/C++ -> Visual Studio-> Java/C# to web with php/javascript/asp.net  and also mobile j2me then to Android.
But this actually counts AGAINST me in my resume because recruiters can spot an old fart if you have too many skills listed.
It's better to be freelancer or run your own micropreneur startup instead.
For modern tech I am mostly focusing on mobile using native android or flutter and for web I focus on vue.js with php/asp.net backend or perhaps nodejs.
Hardly any need to code desktop apps anymore unless client require legacy desktop app maintenance.
Even then I think JavaFX with java is a good option to consider.

Software development tools nowadays are inherently easier nowadays due to abundant of tools.
The big huge problem is there's just too many of them that different employers have different requirement/requests and you have to either pick one or try to know all of them, which is a chore.

Also employers nowadays demand exact skillsets and do not look for 'potentials'. Most of them don't even know how to conduct interviews and end up always complaining they cannot find the right candidate.

Some are outright ageist, won't hire anyone above 40. Then there're also the ones that are outright racist demanding mandarin read/write/speaker. As a bananaman even I couldn't qualify even if I am a Chinese.
Imagine being cast out by own Chinese for not being able to read/write mandarin. Those of us Chinese who graduated from SK would be discriminated by those from SJK. Been there experienced that in addition to ageism by Chinese school educated grads.
*
Thank you for sharing your experience.

QUOTE
Hardly any need to code desktop apps anymore unless client require legacy desktop app maintenance.


Exactly....Mobile and Web application are the two main platforms normally people would consider.
I am specialized in Console App.....so, as I can see, my coding future is bleak. mega_shok.gif

QUOTE
Software development tools nowadays are inherently easier nowadays due to abundant of tools.
The big huge problem is there's just too many of them that different employers have different requirement/requests and you have to either pick one or try to know all of them, which is a chore.

Also employers nowadays demand exact skillsets and do not look for 'potentials'. Most of them don't even know how to conduct interviews and end up always complaining they cannot find the right candidate.


I learn something new from you today.

As for age discrimination and language discrimination, I am sorry to hear about your personal experience. SK graduate would speak better Malay and English. Your English is amazing.








Mussel
post Sep 20 2019, 11:35 PM

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Replied to myself:
QUOTE
It is true that I have tried to adapt to IT in stages:
2000 ~ 2003: I worked as Psion OPL cum Symbian C++ programmer, where Psion UK shut their consumer market in 2003 and Symbian has had the same fate...


Attached Image

One of my Symbian mobile app...
Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Sold on ximplify.com...
http://web.archive.org/web/20030216110904/...y.com/index.htm
dstl1128
post Sep 26 2019, 01:34 PM

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QUOTE(Mussel @ Sep 19 2019, 09:16 PM)
I am specialized in Console App.....so, as I can see, my coding future is bleak.  mega_shok.gif
*
I strongly believe if you had one Turbo Vision-ed GDB front-end for Linux, or even IDE (almost like RHIDE but in Linux) that would be great. Console mode is still unbeatable when doing remote ssh coding/debug/whatever, especially doing remote coding in an Android phone via ssh.

I still mainly do tmux/vim/gdb and would be glad to have TurboC/Pascal-ish IDE in linux text. Even cooler if it support SIXEL output for graphing.






Mussel
post Sep 26 2019, 10:09 PM

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QUOTE(Mussel @ Sep 20 2019, 11:35 PM)
Replied to myself:
Attached Image

One of my Symbian mobile app...
(snipped)

Sold on ximplify.com...
http://web.archive.org/web/20030216110904/...y.com/index.htm
*
Good grief.

https://github.com/SymbianSource
Mussel
post Sep 26 2019, 10:11 PM

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QUOTE(dstl1128 @ Sep 26 2019, 01:34 PM)
I strongly believe if you had one Turbo Vision-ed GDB front-end for Linux, or even IDE (almost like RHIDE but in Linux) that would be great. Console mode is still unbeatable when doing remote ssh coding/debug/whatever, especially doing remote coding in an Android phone via ssh.

I still mainly do tmux/vim/gdb and would be glad to have TurboC/Pascal-ish IDE in linux text. Even cooler if it support SIXEL output for graphing.
*
I have no comment on the Linux part because I am not familiar with it, but yeah, we love text mode, character user interface (CUI), or console mode ! It is available in 80x25, 80x28 (?) and 80x50 text mode under MS-DOS.

This post has been edited by Mussel: Sep 26 2019, 10:13 PM

 

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