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 PT-91M Pendekar

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TSazriel
post Aug 6 2019, 08:02 PM, updated 5y ago

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SUSazhan82
post Aug 6 2019, 08:06 PM

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i remember talking to a few staff working for a local defense company..
said tanks were useless in malaysia..
Better off buying those 8/6 wheel vehicles..

SUSamanu
post Aug 6 2019, 08:06 PM

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buatan poland. tak sesuai untuk muka bumi malaysia.

lagipun penggunaa ERA dah ketinggalan zaman.
TSazriel
post Aug 6 2019, 08:22 PM

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QUOTE(azhan82 @ Aug 6 2019, 08:06 PM)
i remember talking to a few staff working for a local defense company..
said tanks were useless in malaysia..
Better off buying those 8/6 wheel vehicles..
*
Why tanks useless?
raquinz
post Aug 6 2019, 08:28 PM

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QUOTE(azhan82 @ Aug 6 2019, 08:06 PM)
i remember talking to a few staff working for a local defense company..
said tanks were useless in malaysia..
Better off buying those 8/6 wheel vehicles..
*
8/6 wheel vehicle cannot go through muddy area and support very heavy armored chassis..They can say goodbye if it ever met a battle tank on the field..
arsenwagon
post Aug 6 2019, 08:30 PM

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that thing will not even know that a leopard 2 sg has set its sight on it
Fat & Fluffy
post Aug 6 2019, 08:31 PM

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polski dont use their tweety anymore..

penderkar got APS?
Fat & Fluffy
post Aug 6 2019, 08:32 PM

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QUOTE(raquinz @ Aug 6 2019, 10:28 PM)
8/6 wheel vehicle cannot go through muddy area and support very heavy armored chassis..They can say goodbye if it ever met a battle tank on the field..
*
dunno dun simply say... lelz...
SuperGampang
post Aug 6 2019, 08:35 PM

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Armchair general...... Noice
SUSazhan82
post Aug 6 2019, 08:35 PM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Aug 6 2019, 08:22 PM)
Why tanks useless?
*
QUOTE(raquinz @ Aug 6 2019, 08:28 PM)
8/6 wheel vehicle cannot go through muddy area and support very heavy armored chassis..They can say goodbye if it ever met a battle tank on the field..
*
well, the excuse is, tracked vehicles dont suit our ecosystem ..
So 8/6 wheeler would be better since it can move around faster.
Of course, i said, bigger guns better especially on tanks ..
but they say, even smaller caliber guns can do the job just as effective due to our terrain...

Basically arguing about armored vs infantry guerrilla tactic all the way biggrin.gif

I really dont want to argue too much since some of them were ex army / wataniah...
Fat & Fluffy
post Aug 6 2019, 08:42 PM

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QUOTE(arsenwagon @ Aug 6 2019, 10:30 PM)
that thing will not even know that a leopard 2 sg has set its sight on it
*
got laser warning system no?
ahchat
post Aug 6 2019, 08:46 PM

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QUOTE(azhan82 @ Aug 6 2019, 08:06 PM)
i remember talking to a few staff working for a local defense company..
said tanks were useless in malaysia..
Better off buying those 8/6 wheel vehicles..
*
jadahnya...every vehicle type got its own usage la

QUOTE(raquinz @ Aug 6 2019, 08:28 PM)
8/6 wheel vehicle cannot go through muddy area and support very heavy armored chassis..They can say goodbye if it ever met a battle tank on the field..
*
u sure or not? ever seen sibmas or condor in action?

QUOTE(azhan82 @ Aug 6 2019, 08:35 PM)
well, the excuse is, tracked vehicles dont suit our ecosystem ..
So 8/6 wheeler would be better since it can move around faster.
Of course, i said, bigger guns better especially on tanks ..
but they say, even smaller caliber guns can do the job just as effective due to our terrain...

Basically arguing about armored vs infantry guerrilla tactic all the way biggrin.gif

I really dont want to argue too much since some of them were ex army / wataniah...
*
those 6/8 tires vehicle are APCs, armoured personnel carrier, not battle tanks

those tracked vehicles are MBTs, main battle tanks, for firepower and tanking up front like DOTA la..

usage pun tak reti beza, ada hati mau sembang...

never seen smaller calibre guns vs tank enuff? lol
Fat & Fluffy
post Aug 6 2019, 08:49 PM

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Almost as soon as the PT-91M entered service it was met with a wave of serious criticism. Some of the fiercest critics apparently came from within the ranks of the army itself. You can read this POST from retired Army officer, Mohd Arshad Rajim which I encourage you to read to understand the context of his argument. Here's an excerpt from the post :

"The acquisition of the MBT has taken many years to realize before the final choice was made to acquire the Polish manufactured MBT. But why a Polish tank, and not other makes is best known to those who had a hand in making the final decision; rightfully or otherwise. But I do know that there are officers from the Armoured Corps who were dead against the acquisition on grounds that the PT 91M is no better than the T 72 (an earlier version of the PT 91M) that performed poorly during the 1991 Gulf War against the more advanced US M1A1 and the British manufactured Challenger 2 tanks.

In the process of acquiring more information regarding the PT 91M, someone whom I had discussed with regarding the acquisition remarked that, “of all these years, the best armoured vehicle that the Malaysian Army has had in its inventory is the Ferret Scout car. All other armoured vehicles purchased since the 70’s are a total flop”. He went on to say that the PT 91M is a total failure even before it entered service in the Malaysian Army; the major mechanical glitch being the gearing system. And what is even worse is that the Malaysian Army has incorporated a number of foreign manufactured systems (other than Polish) into the tank, and this makes the maintenance of the tank a nightmare for the maintenance crew; besides the exorbitant cost that the army has to bear to maintain these systems. He does not foresee the PT 91M being operational worthy after 10 years of service; where it will finally end up as targets at Asahan Range."


One of the main concerns was the transmission, the original Soviet-designed semi-automatic transmission being replaced by a fully automatic one in the PT-91M, stating that a semi-automatic transmission is far more reliable and easily maintained. Another was for all its costly upgrades and modifications, the commander does not have a thermal imaging sight. It's an odd omission considering that night vision and optics is so commonly found on many other modern fighting vehicles of other nations. (***NOTE : this point needs verification as there are conflicting sources***)

Much criticism was also directed at the tank's armor, with some sources citing that the ERA employed on the PT-91M being vulnerable to modern kinetic energy sabot rounds, EFP (explosively formed penetrators) and tandem warheads. Others expressed the vulnerability to "top down" missiles like the Spike and Javelin, whilst other parties refute that claim. I'm no tank expert. My question is who is telling the truth?

The autoloader was also a source of concern given that it is in common with that on the T-72. (Click to see this video of an ammo-rack explosion) However, these same sources also acknowledge that some of the modifications like the Savan FCS and Vigy panaromic sight actually provide the Pt-91M with a better first hit kill probability and hunter-killer capabilities than other T-72s or even current T-90s.

Why Malaysia Chose The PT-91

1. The PT91 is admittedly not the best MBT in the world. It is considered a 3rd-generation tank in which the level of technology is comparable to that of the Leopard 2A4 (operated by Singapore), Merkava MKIII or M1 Abrams. MBT or Main Battle Tank are currently classified into 3 generations. 4th-generation vehicles are currently being developed such as the K2 (South Korea) and T-95 (Russia).

2. PT91 or Pendekar weighs approximately 45 tons with ERAWA reactive armor blocks as protection. In 2003, the writer had the chance to speak to a retired colonel from the Kor Armor Di Raja Malaysia (Royal Malaysian Armor Corps) at Bam, Iran who wished to be known as Kolonel Kamal (after retirement he serves in the Malaysian Red Crescent Society).

3. Col Kamal was one of the most vocal critics of the acquisition of the PT-91's to the extent of submitting a written report to then Prime Minister, Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad. Kol (B) Kamal also voices his criticisms publicly via local newspaper Utusan Malaysia.

4. In certain ways, the writer agrees with Kol (B) Kamal points and both are not in favor of the PT-91, chiefly because it was developed from the T-72 chassis. The wreckages of Russian T-72 strewn across the battlefield in Chechnya between 1994-2000 was a depressing sight, some of them even having their turrets blown clear off the hulls.

5. Once again, the world witnessed how Iraqi T-72's were mauled by American M1 Abrahms' during Desert Storm. However, let us put aside the case of Iraqi T-72's as the tanks operated by Saddam Hussein's regimed were copies that were locally knowned as "Lion of Babylon" or "Asad Babil"

6. The "Asad Babil" copies were not manufactured to the same quality standards as the original T-72. It is therefore unfair to equate the Gulf War scenario with any possible conflict scenarios faced by Malaysian PT-91Ms.

7. History has never been on the side of the T-72. Prior to the Chechen conflict, Syrian T-72s fared poorly in action with Israel, falling victim to the Merkava. We also know, that despite the modernization efforts, the PT91 is still no match for any other 3rd-generation tanks in service.

8. Kol (B) Kamal had hoped that Malaysia would select the Korean-made Daewoo K1, which applies US tank technolgy in a platform almost similar to the M1 Abrahms. Daewoo's sales pitch was the tagline “American Technology At Asian Prices”.

9. He also debated political and defense analyst, Abdul Razak Baginda during a seminar held in malaysia, when the latter stated to the audience that the T-72 was the best tank in the world. Details of what took place in that seminar are unknown.

10. The PT-91 Pendekar was in the colonel's opinion ill-suited for Malaysian Armed Forces doctrine. The Polish-built tanks, drew upon the design of the T-72, which in turn is Soviet Cold War-era design. Soviet doctrine with regards to armor greatly differed with the emphasis of of tanks used en-masse.

11. With a large army, the loss of personnel and destruction of tanks were not considered a problem for the Soviet Union. With that in mind, the T-72 was designed from the start as a low-cost alternative to the the T-60 of the 60's. Armor and crew comfort being low on the list of priorities.

12. Another problem is that the PT91 Pendekar uses an autoloader system to service the main gun. The autoloader reduces the number of crew required. This system was known to be problematic with potential of malfunction or jamming during the heat of combat. Even the M1 Abrahms, considered to be the best tank in the world, uses manual loading to service its main gun (4 crew, compared to 3 in the PT-91).

13. The author has personally been inside the crew compartment of the PT-91 and it is extremely cramped and uncomfortable to remain inside for extended periods of time. Unfortunately, he was not allowed to take any photographs of the interior for security reasons.

14. The author had previously questioned a senior adviser to Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak, who was then Defence Minister, what was the logic behind choosing the PT-91. Without dwelving into issues like profits, economy and other matters, he received a simple reply. “Can't afford to buy a Mercedes, a Proton will suffice”.

15. Other sources obtained by the author state that the tank's cost increased as a result of the installation of various hunter-killer systems and components.

16. The author also managed to interview an army officer regarding the necessity of the PT-91. The officer stated that the firepower possesed was sufficient but factors such as finances and local terrain did not allow for the introduction of other heavier tanks.

17. Although the start of this article appears to paint a negative light, this does not mean that the choice of the PT-91 by the Malaysian Armed Forces was a big mistake. Planners and development experts had put much thought into the factors that influenced the selection of this tank.

18. The first factor, is that this was considered a catalyst as malaysia had never operated tanks and in fact we do not even have a clearly defined tank warfare doctrine. Prior to Singapore's purchase of the Leopard, she already had experience operating AMX 13 and Centurion for over 20 years.

19. The number of tanks purchased by the Malaysian government is relatively little, just 48 vehicles, but is supported by a large number of anti-tank missiles acquired from France and Pakistan. Military planners do not foresee a likelihood of tank vs tank combat especially in the heavily forested areas of Malaysia.

20. Before the arrival of the Leopard in Singapore's inventory, the PT-91 was considered the best tank in the region. The obsolete AMX light tanks would be no real match for the PT-91.

21. The French-built AMX tanks had no capability of shooting-on-the-move.

22. Singapore ordered the AH-64 Apache. In the past, analysts predicted that helicopters would reign supreme over the battlefield dethroning the MBT.

23. After the Iraqi campaign, these same analysts were found to be wrong, the tank still maintain it's status as the king of the battlefield after the US found that their Apache helicopters could not secure victory in battle.

24. With a large number of MANPADS (man-portable air-defense systems) which are capable of launch from an infantryman's shoulder, the Apache would be very vulnerable operating in our airspace with our heavily forested and hilly terrain.

25. One on one, the PT-91 is capable of defeating any tanks operated by Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia dan Brunei including Singapore-operated Tempest dan AMX (***NOTE: this is no longer true in 2014. Singapore and Indonesia both now operate the Leopard 2A4***)

26. Our ground forces employ ambush tactics in the face of any enemy armored assault. Our geography allows us a great advantage when it comes to such tactics.

27. The author will not digress into the topics of climate and terrain as this had been previously discussed in a separate article introducing the Leopard MBT in Singapore's armed forces inventory. (***I'll try to look up and post this article in the future ***)

28. There are several stories of whereby a skilled tank commander can defeat a better-equipped enemy.

29. The author recalled from the web an incident whereby an Abrahms commander failed to detect an Iraqi T-72 that was firing at his tank.

30. The encounter took place at night at an engagement range of several kilometres. A column of US army tanks were attacked by an enemy which remain undetected.

31. The sophisticated electronics of the M1 Abrahms did not manage to detect the whereabouts of the T-72 as it had shut-off it's engine and therefore had no heat signature.

32. The T-72 was finally destroyed after the electronics managed to detect the faint heat signature of its gun barrel after it had fired several times. (***Why cite this incident? In the end, the T-72 was on the losing end of the deal***)
TSazriel
post Aug 6 2019, 08:51 PM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Aug 6 2019, 08:31 PM)


polski dont use their tweety anymore..

penderkar got APS?
*
Poland still operate PT-91 Twardy.

QUOTE
On the other hand, even though the Leopard 2 tanks have been delivered in large quantity (mostly in 2A5 variant), the Polish Army still utilizes a certain number of unmodified T-72M1 tanks, operated by the 21st Highland Rifle Brigade, or by the 15th “Giżycka” Mechanized Brigade. Twardy main battle tanks are being used by the 1st “Warszawska” Armoured Brigade, 9th Armoured Cavalry Brigade, and by the 2nd “Legioni” Mechanized Brigade.


https://www.defence24.com/polish-twardy-mai...eaded-to-latvia
raquinz
post Aug 6 2019, 08:52 PM

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QUOTE(ahchat @ Aug 6 2019, 08:46 PM)
jadahnya...every vehicle type got its own usage la
u sure or not? ever seen sibmas or condor in action?
those 6/8 tires vehicle are APCs, armoured personnel carrier, not battle tanks

those tracked vehicles are MBTs, main battle tanks, for firepower and tanking up front like DOTA la..

usage pun tak reti beza, ada hati mau sembang...

never seen smaller calibre guns vs tank enuff? lol
*
Sibmas and Condor weight about 20 ton..Can compare to PT91M ka? PT91 weigh 40 tonne..An Abram weighs 70 tonne!..Can wheel vehicle support that much weight??
Fat & Fluffy
post Aug 6 2019, 09:00 PM

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QUOTE(raquinz @ Aug 6 2019, 10:52 PM)
Sibmas and Condor weight about 20 ton..Can compare to PT91M ka? PT91 weigh 40 tonne..An Abram weighs 70 tonne!..Can wheel vehicle support that much weight??
*
topol-m carrier is 47tons rclxms.gif
KLthinker91
post Aug 6 2019, 09:03 PM

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QUOTE(azhan82 @ Aug 6 2019, 08:35 PM)
well, the excuse is, tracked vehicles dont suit our ecosystem ..
So 8/6 wheeler would be better since it can move around faster.
Of course, i said, bigger guns better especially on tanks ..
but they say, even smaller caliber guns can do the job just as effective due to our terrain...

Basically arguing about armored vs infantry guerrilla tactic all the way biggrin.gif

I really dont want to argue too much since some of them were ex army / wataniah...
*
You torpedo them with this

Army had plans for 1 whole brigade of tanks - 3 times as many. So where are they?

Singapore and Indon both use Leo 2. They can we cannot?

"Guerilla warfare" is the excuse of the conventionally Incapable. Basically a last resort and never on the right side of the KDR...

That being said, modern 8x8 IFVs are the way to go, because they can travel better on roads and the city is where the fight will be

This post has been edited by KLthinker91: Aug 6 2019, 09:04 PM
ahchat
post Aug 6 2019, 09:03 PM

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QUOTE(raquinz @ Aug 6 2019, 08:52 PM)
Sibmas and Condor weight about 20 ton..Can compare to PT91M ka? PT91 weigh 40 tonne..An Abram weighs 70 tonne!..Can wheel vehicle support that much weight??
*
im referring sibmas n condor to your statement of 6/8 vehicle cannot go through muddy terrain la, not comparing them to MBT doh.gif
SUS9ine
post Aug 6 2019, 09:10 PM

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PT91 vs Thailand's T84 Oplot... which one will win?

Both also descended from Soviet designs and both countries Poland and Ukraine are former Soviet/Warsaw Pact
Frozen_Sun
post Aug 6 2019, 11:51 PM

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The problem is PT-91 is a T-72M variant....if it's based on T-72B then it's OK...

In fact, T-90 is derived from the T-72B family.

Just buy, T-90MS next.....at $4mn each....should be reasonable...
SUSEBBattlefield
post Aug 6 2019, 11:57 PM

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QUOTE(Frozen_Sun @ Aug 6 2019, 11:51 PM)
The problem is PT-91 is a T-72M variant....if it's based on T-72B then it's OK...

In fact, T-90 is derived from the T-72B family.

Just buy, T-90MS next.....at $4mn each....should be reasonable...
*
the only reason why ATM didnt get T90 was because only the poles were willing to barter tanks with palm oil...... doh.gif

dont be surprised if Turkey does the same soon to get Attack helicopter sales to PUTD. doh.gif


arif85124
post Aug 7 2019, 12:06 AM

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anyone got pendekar pic in urban camo?
atreyuangel
post Aug 7 2019, 12:14 AM

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QUOTE(azhan82 @ Aug 6 2019, 08:06 PM)
i remember talking to a few staff working for a local defense company..
said tanks were useless in malaysia..
Better off buying those 8/6 wheel vehicles..
*
Lol kompeni dia tak dapat kontrak tu cakap la macam2

QUOTE(arsenwagon @ Aug 6 2019, 08:30 PM)
that thing will not even know that a leopard 2 sg has set its sight on it
*
so apa guna semua sensor kat pendekar tu?

QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Aug 6 2019, 08:49 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
You know that he write this witha motive right?
right now he sang a different tune to the ones that approved the PT91M whistling.gif

QUOTE(Frozen_Sun @ Aug 6 2019, 11:51 PM)
The problem is PT-91 is a T-72M variant....if it's based on T-72B then it's OK...

In fact, T-90 is derived from the T-72B family.

Just buy, T-90MS next.....at $4mn each....should be reasonable...
*
Derived pun tak guna, the PT91M only have T72 as design
It's a whole new gen of tank, if you are with them to Bumar office that you back then know.
Finalist of T-90, T-80 and Twardy have their own Pro and Cons during the Malaysia trail

This post has been edited by atreyuangel: Aug 7 2019, 12:15 AM
SUSBillCollector
post Aug 7 2019, 12:18 AM

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Any idea whether these tanks are still in service or has met the same fate as the MIGs?

Not sure why of all the MBTs of the world this country bought an obsolete junk.
lagista
post Aug 7 2019, 12:46 AM

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QUOTE(Frozen_Sun @ Aug 6 2019, 11:51 PM)
The problem is PT-91 is a T-72M variant....if it's based on T-72B then it's OK...

In fact, T-90 is derived from the T-72B family.

Just buy, T-90MS next.....at $4mn each....should be reasonable...
*
i bought mine rm150 in desert camo colour... next maybe get green n blue colours icon_rolleyes.gif




sanwaltz
post Aug 7 2019, 12:53 AM

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Dont worry, when the time comes, legend says a mystique tank will appear and destroy all those singpork Leopard 2


zimhibikie
post Aug 7 2019, 10:02 AM

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In modern warfare, there is no such thing as a 'tank vs tank' battlefield scenario. However, MBTs like the PT91M and Leo2A is an important asset in supporting infantry movement
atreyuangel
post Aug 7 2019, 03:31 PM

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QUOTE(BillCollector @ Aug 7 2019, 12:18 AM)
Any idea whether these tanks are still in service or has met the same fate as the MIGs?

Not sure why of all the MBTs of the world this country bought an obsolete junk.
*
ada aja, kalau gi Gemas baru2 boleh dengar latihan menembak PT91M
dickybird
post Aug 7 2019, 03:33 PM

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Attack helicopters and LAWS kill ratios way way higher and cheaper. We have dense jungle not open terrain for tanks to roam.
SuperGampang
post Aug 7 2019, 03:36 PM

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QUOTE(BillCollector @ Aug 7 2019, 12:18 AM)
Any idea whether these tanks are still in service or has met the same fate as the MIGs?

Not sure why of all the MBTs of the world this country bought an obsolete junk.
*
Its better then india MBT for sure.
MichaelJohn
post Aug 7 2019, 03:37 PM

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still mengidam nk tgk KAD dapat Type 90/10

(dalam mimpi je la huhu)

This post has been edited by MichaelJohn: Aug 7 2019, 03:38 PM
JRocket
post Aug 7 2019, 03:38 PM

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terus rasa nak main company of heroes
jayraptor
post Aug 7 2019, 03:42 PM

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QUOTE(raquinz @ Aug 6 2019, 08:28 PM)
8/6 wheel vehicle cannot go through muddy area and support very heavy armored chassis..They can say goodbye if it ever met a battle tank on the field..
*
Wheeled vehicles mostly are APC, rest are recon, fire support,
mobile artillery for fast deployment. Turning circle big and not as mobile in offroad terrain such as mud compared to tracked. For war, it is handled by MBT and IFV tracked. Yes, you're right.
ps3 fanboy
post Aug 7 2019, 03:47 PM

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tank is for posturing only and scare local populace, real war in jungle using sniper , infantryman, artillery and air power
SUSEBBattlefield
post Aug 7 2019, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(SuperGampang @ Aug 7 2019, 03:36 PM)
Its better then india MBT for sure.
*
india MBT also T72 variant.....
aside from not firing 7.62 Soviet, PT91M is basically the same as your average indian tank innocent.gif
jayraptor
post Aug 7 2019, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(BillCollector @ Aug 7 2019, 12:18 AM)
Any idea whether these tanks are still in service or has met the same fate as the MIGs?

Not sure why of all the MBTs of the world this country bought an obsolete junk.
*
MY angered Russia at that time for recognising Bosnia and Kosovo independence that Russia banned MY from buying any of their military equipment including spare parts. MY Su30 have to buy parts from China instead.

US tanks only sold to allies. NATO tanks are too expensive so MY chose PT91 instead. Japan & South Korea tanks unproven therefore void. China reputation wasn't proven until they supplied weapons to militants & allies that shown good results in war. If can turn back time, MY will buy PRC Type90/96 instead.

These tanks pt91 are still operational all fielded in Johor. They are tasked to hold garrison against SG invasion and that area requires MBT much.

This post has been edited by jayraptor: Aug 7 2019, 03:53 PM
oe_kintaro
post Aug 7 2019, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(azhan82 @ Aug 6 2019, 08:35 PM)
well, the excuse is, tracked vehicles dont suit our ecosystem ..
So 8/6 wheeler would be better since it can move around faster.
Of course, i said, bigger guns better especially on tanks ..
but they say, even smaller caliber guns can do the job just as effective due to our terrain...

Basically arguing about armored vs infantry guerrilla tactic all the way biggrin.gif

I really dont want to argue too much since some of them were ex army / wataniah...
*
I know a place that's full of concrete and nice paved roads brows.gif

This post has been edited by oe_kintaro: Aug 7 2019, 03:54 PM
rafale_05
post Aug 7 2019, 04:04 PM

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i think its time for malaysia to buy anew tank. 48 mbt mn cukup...
SuperGampang
post Aug 7 2019, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(EBBattlefield @ Aug 7 2019, 03:48 PM)
india MBT also T72 variant.....
aside from not firing 7.62 Soviet, PT91M is basically the same as your average indian tank  innocent.gif
*
I meant arjun mbt
atreyuangel
post Aug 7 2019, 08:20 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 7 2019, 03:50 PM)
MY angered Russia at that time for recognising Bosnia and Kosovo independence that Russia banned MY from buying any of their military equipment including spare parts. MY Su30 have to buy parts from China instead.

US tanks only sold to allies. NATO tanks are too expensive so MY chose PT91 instead. Japan & South Korea tanks unproven therefore void. China reputation wasn't proven until they supplied weapons to militants & allies that shown good results in war. If can turn back time, MY will buy PRC Type90/96 instead.

These tanks pt91 are still operational all fielded in Johor. They are tasked to hold garrison against SG invasion and that area requires MBT much.
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mende mu nih
Pendekar nun kat Kem Syed Sirajuddin tu
Fat & Fluffy
post Aug 7 2019, 08:28 PM

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QUOTE(dickybird @ Aug 7 2019, 05:33 PM)
Attack helicopters and LAWS kill ratios way way higher and cheaper. We have dense jungle not open terrain for tanks to roam.
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wat happened to msia's attack heli?

yea, but not everywhere is jungle... msia is urbanized... leave urban area to enemy n hide in jungle?

QUOTE(ps3 fanboy @ Aug 7 2019, 05:47 PM)
tank is for posturing only and scare local populace, real war in jungle using sniper , infantryman, artillery and air power
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lelz, that insurgency... aka iraq afghan... after the country hancur already

zacky chan
post Aug 7 2019, 09:17 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 7 2019, 03:50 PM)
MY angered Russia at that time for recognising Bosnia and Kosovo independence that Russia banned MY from buying any of their military equipment including spare parts. MY Su30 have to buy parts from China instead.

US tanks only sold to allies. NATO tanks are too expensive so MY chose PT91 instead. Japan & South Korea tanks unproven therefore void. China reputation wasn't proven until they supplied weapons to militants & allies that shown good results in war. If can turn back time, MY will buy PRC Type90/96 instead.

These tanks pt91 are still operational all fielded in Johor. They are tasked to hold garrison against SG invasion and that area requires MBT much.
*
you ok or not??? hmm.gif

we buy the tank from poland which they have right to produce it and its spare part iinm...

SU30 spare part from china???got sos to support that??AFAIK we buy direct from russian
zacky chan
post Aug 7 2019, 09:23 PM

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QUOTE(rafale_05 @ Aug 7 2019, 04:04 PM)
i think its time for malaysia to buy anew tank. 48 mbt mn cukup...
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should wait until 2040 i think...better complete AV8 2nd batch,new heli and get new JLTV for our land force..after that go for MBT.

nowadays people see how MBT really weight a lot and slow in battlefield which make it easy for ATGM squad to kill or immobilize them. so the interest shift to well armed APC and light tank. that is why in defense expo a lot of this type vehicle was shown.
RicoT
post Aug 7 2019, 09:31 PM

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Malaysia have a better role for these tanks, dig a hole and cover the hull with dirt/concrete. Just the turret expose and rotate. Just like Maginot line. Oh wai...
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post Aug 7 2019, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Aug 7 2019, 08:28 PM)
wat happened to msia's attack heli?

yea, but not everywhere is jungle... msia is urbanized... leave urban area to enemy n hide in jungle?
lelz, that insurgency... aka iraq afghan... after the country hancur already
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Those 2 theatres, damage done by air power that was unchallenged.
Urban fighting, wheeled armoured vehicles are a better fit for speed and manoeuvrebility.
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post Aug 8 2019, 12:53 AM

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QUOTE(SuperGampang @ Aug 7 2019, 03:36 PM)
Its better then india MBT for sure.
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How exactly?? Considering the Indian Army uses T90s and recently their own Arjun is mostly a reversed engineered T90 with German made MTU engines and French sourced fire control systems.


QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 7 2019, 03:50 PM)
MY angered Russia at that time for recognising Bosnia and Kosovo independence that Russia banned MY from buying any of their military equipment including spare parts. MY Su30 have to buy parts from China instead.

US tanks only sold to allies. NATO tanks are too expensive so MY chose PT91 instead. Japan & South Korea tanks unproven therefore void. China reputation wasn't proven until they supplied weapons to militants & allies that shown good results in war. If can turn back time, MY will buy PRC Type90/96 instead.

These tanks pt91 are still operational all fielded in Johor. They are tasked to hold garrison against SG invasion and that area requires MBT much.
*
rolleyes.gif lol.gif
SuperGampang
post Aug 8 2019, 07:04 AM

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QUOTE(BillCollector @ Aug 8 2019, 12:53 AM)
How exactly?? Considering the Indian Army uses T90s and recently their own Arjun is mostly a reversed engineered T90 with German made MTU engines and French sourced fire control systems.
rolleyes.gif  :lol2:
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ihm11
post Aug 8 2019, 07:33 AM

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go take part in tank biathlon
SUSEBBattlefield
post Aug 8 2019, 08:38 AM

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QUOTE(ihm11 @ Aug 8 2019, 07:33 AM)
go take part in tank biathlon
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just dont drive like arabs

user posted image
TSazriel
post Aug 8 2019, 09:10 AM

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QUOTE(ihm11 @ Aug 8 2019, 07:33 AM)
go take part in tank biathlon
*
Strong Europe Tank Challenge is better.

QUOTE
• The Austrian team was provided by Panzer bataillon 14, the only tank battalion of the Bundesheer, which took part in the competition with the Leopard 2A4 main battle tank.

• The French team was provided by a platoon from the 1er Régiment de Chasseurs, equipped with Leclerc MBTs.

• The German team was provided by Panzer bataillon 393, equipped with Leopard 2A6 MBTs.

• The team from Poland was provided by a tank battalion from 34 Brygada Kawalerii Pancernej, equipped with Leopard 2A5.

• The team from Sweden was provided by the Skaraborg Regimentet, equipped with Stridsvagn 122 (another variant of the Leopard 2).

• The team from Ukraine was provided by the 14-та окрема механізована бригада (14th Independent Mechanised Brigade) equipped with T-84 MBTs.

• The UK team was provided by The Queen’s Royal Hussars, equipped with the Challenger 2 main battle tank.

• The US team was provided by the 2nd Battalion, 70th Armored Regiment, equipped with M1A2 SEP (V2) Abrams MBTs.


https://www.joint-forces.com/exercise-news/...-challenge-2018
SUSEBBattlefield
post Aug 8 2019, 09:19 AM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Aug 8 2019, 09:10 AM)
1
the only difference is that one competition is T72 based, the other is leopard 2 based.... laugh.gif
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post Aug 8 2019, 10:42 AM

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QUOTE(EBBattlefield @ Aug 8 2019, 09:19 AM)
1
the only difference is that one competition is T72 based, the other is leopard 2 based....  laugh.gif
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Because those Leopard 2s are the MBTs of that particular countries. In the Tank Biathlon each participant countries were given T-72B1 to compete with by the Russian. Iirc only the PRC brought their VT-4 MBT.

This post has been edited by azriel: Aug 8 2019, 11:44 AM
Frozen_Sun
post Aug 8 2019, 12:07 PM

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QUOTE(EBBattlefield @ Aug 6 2019, 11:57 PM)
the only reason why ATM didnt get T90 was because only the poles were willing to barter tanks with palm oil...... doh.gif

dont be surprised if Turkey does the same soon to get Attack helicopter sales to PUTD. doh.gif
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I don't think money is the problem

With $2.4 billion for 257 units AV-8 project....for the same amount of money....TDM can get 600 T-90MS...enough for four full-strength armored division !!
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post Aug 8 2019, 12:15 PM

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I think is too heavy and not suitable for fast pace war. Maybe buy put infront of putrajaya ok lo. But in warzone better buy anti tank missile rpgs and land mine.

For defense purpose no need a lot. Nowaday people can destroy a tank from far away m
Frozen_Sun
post Aug 8 2019, 12:36 PM

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QUOTE(gengkey01 @ Aug 8 2019, 12:15 PM)
I think is too heavy and not suitable for fast pace war. Maybe buy put infront of putrajaya ok lo. But in warzone better buy anti tank missile rpgs and land mine.

For defense purpose no need a lot. Nowaday people can destroy a tank from far away m
*

When enemy invade, they will use lebuhraya and roads to move troops, they won't go through jungles and hills.

So, MBT is needed to block enemy movements on highways and counter attack at their flanks using roads as well...
TSazriel
post Aug 8 2019, 12:54 PM

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QUOTE(gengkey01 @ Aug 8 2019, 12:15 PM)
I think is too heavy and not suitable for fast pace war. Maybe buy put infront of putrajaya ok lo. But in warzone better buy anti tank missile rpgs and land mine.

For defense purpose no need a lot. Nowaday people can destroy a tank from far away
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If they can destroy a tank which is better protected then they can also easily destroy IFV or APC. So maybe no need for IFV or APC. Tank needs infantry support. Tanks that were destroyed were mostly moving without infantry support or were sitting idle in an open field or were made as pillbox thinking they were invincible.

This post has been edited by azriel: Aug 8 2019, 01:01 PM
zacky chan
post Aug 8 2019, 01:05 PM

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QUOTE(gengkey01 @ Aug 8 2019, 12:15 PM)
I think is too heavy and not suitable for fast pace war. Maybe buy put infront of putrajaya ok lo. But in warzone better buy anti tank missile rpgs and land mine.

For defense purpose no need a lot. Nowaday people can destroy a tank from far away m
*
our MBT consider light compare to SG MBT or even US MBT....but remember, in war time we will need all asset in tip top condition and not just one type only. MBT work well with good support from APC+infantry+artillery+aerial fire support and nowadays even UAV also support MBT to provide area surveillance.

hard to say about the amount of MBT needed...we at least need around 100 minimum to support peninsular and borneo tho...and that not count the training MBT.


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post Aug 8 2019, 01:08 PM

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QUOTE(zacky chan @ Aug 8 2019, 01:05 PM)
our MBT consider light compare to SG MBT or even US MBT....but remember, in war time we will need all asset in tip top condition and not just one type only. MBT work well with good support from APC+infantry+artillery+aerial fire support and nowadays even UAV also support MBT to provide area surveillance.

hard to say about the amount of MBT needed...we at least need around 100 minimum to support peninsular and borneo tho...and that not count the  training MBT.
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Then its a waste because of tank we need to buy more apc, more infantry.artileery, and so on. Just because of 1 fella the whole team need to be there . We need a rambo
shirohamada
post Aug 8 2019, 01:08 PM

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pancake wira where?
zacky chan
post Aug 8 2019, 01:19 PM

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QUOTE(gengkey01 @ Aug 8 2019, 01:08 PM)
Then its a waste because of tank we need to buy more apc, more infantry.artileery, and so on. Just because of 1 fella the whole team need to be there . We need a rambo
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all those asset are needed to support each other bro...no such things as 1 asset cover all those area... in Hollywood movie,sure can see that, but in reality nope... laugh.gif

MBT is heavy due to armor protection and the round ammunition they carried(imo)...sure its dead weight but if you are infantry or APC,having MBT to give fire support and protection while getting through enemy line or while you getting into position or go to safe distance is a necessary things bro...remember,they are all needed(MBT+APC+infantry+artillery+aerial fire support) to cover the ground or to stop enemy marching.
SUSEBBattlefield
post Aug 8 2019, 04:34 PM

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QUOTE(Frozen_Sun @ Aug 8 2019, 12:07 PM)
I don't think money is the problem

With $2.4 billion for 257 units AV-8 project....for the same amount of money....TDM can get 600 T-90MS...enough for four full-strength armored division !!
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no money is the problem.
The problem is that mindef is not paying cash, but palm oil.
Ah jib kor already said cash is king...
since pay with palm oil, need to give discount on palm oil lo laugh.gif
mattsynyster
post Aug 8 2019, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(azhan82 @ Aug 6 2019, 08:06 PM)
i remember talking to a few staff working for a local defense company..
said tanks were useless in malaysia..
Better off buying those 8/6 wheel vehicles..
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in what sense?
Usability
Reliability
care to elaborate
sanwaltz
post Aug 8 2019, 04:39 PM

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QUOTE(azhan82 @ Aug 6 2019, 08:06 PM)
i remember talking to a few staff working for a local defense company..
said tanks were useless in malaysia..
Better off buying those 8/6 wheel vehicles..
*
did you ask that staff his opinion about tank effectiveness for city-state singpork? the staff got the same opinion?
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post Aug 8 2019, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(mattsynyster @ Aug 8 2019, 04:37 PM)
in what sense?
Usability
Reliability
care to elaborate
*
more to capabilities
defense vs offence, terrain, reliability etc

QUOTE(sanwaltz @ Aug 8 2019, 04:39 PM)
did you ask that staff his opinion about tank effectiveness for city-state singpork? the staff got the same opinion?
*
nope.. discuss more on malaysia environment

inb4 HOI4 = Tank -33% in cities/urban assault biggrin.gif
sanwaltz
post Aug 8 2019, 04:52 PM

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QUOTE(azhan82 @ Aug 8 2019, 04:45 PM)
inb4 HOI4 = Tank -33% in cities/urban assault  biggrin.gif
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ahaha i main nazi blitzkrieg doctrine onli flex.gif

Fat & Fluffy
post Aug 8 2019, 05:33 PM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Aug 8 2019, 12:42 PM)
Because those Leopard 2s are the MBTs of that particular countries. In the Tank Biathlon each participant countries were given T-72B1 to compete with by the Russian. Iirc only the PRC brought their VT-4 MBT.
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chaina brought type 96 no? nobody brought heavy tanks besides the dumb yindians... t-90 that failed badly

QUOTE(gengkey01 @ Aug 8 2019, 02:15 PM)
I think is too heavy and not suitable for fast pace war. Maybe buy put infront of putrajaya ok lo. But in warzone better buy anti tank missile rpgs and land mine.

For defense purpose no need a lot. Nowaday people can destroy a tank from far away m
*
huh... too heavy? these days the power to weight ratio is very high already... unlike ww2

atgm or rpgs dont have good hit rate against properly trained and equipped armor unit... land mines maybe but i thought that has been banned?

ez to say... with APS, lazer warning system, counter measures, new gen armour... etc etc, its not that ez

QUOTE(zacky chan @ Aug 8 2019, 03:19 PM)
all those asset are needed to support each other bro...no such things as 1 asset cover all those area...  in Hollywood movie,sure can see that, but in reality nope...  laugh.gif

MBT is heavy due to armor protection and the round ammunition they carried(imo)...sure its dead weight but if you are infantry or APC,having MBT to give fire support and protection while getting through enemy line or while you getting into position or go to safe distance is a necessary things bro...remember,they are all needed(MBT+APC+infantry+artillery+aerial fire support) to cover the ground or to stop enemy marching.
*
mbt usually supported by ifv, less so apc that have lower armor standard...
K.I.T.T
post Aug 8 2019, 05:37 PM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Aug 6 2019, 08:22 PM)
Why tanks useless?
*
if u play Generals u will find out how useless they are when fight with US airforce
Frozen_Sun
post Aug 8 2019, 06:48 PM

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QUOTE(EBBattlefield @ Aug 8 2019, 04:34 PM)
no money is the problem.
The problem is that mindef is not paying cash, but palm oil.
Ah jib kor already said cash is king...
since pay with palm oil, need to give discount on palm oil lo laugh.gif
*
Use palm oil to pay AV-8 too?
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post Aug 8 2019, 08:35 PM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Aug 8 2019, 05:33 PM)
chaina brought type 96 no? nobody brought heavy tanks besides the dumb yindians... t-90 that failed badly
*
My mistake yes it was the Type 96B that the PLA brought to the Tank Biathlon.

This post has been edited by azriel: Aug 8 2019, 08:36 PM
jayraptor
post Aug 8 2019, 09:33 PM

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QUOTE(zacky chan @ Aug 7 2019, 09:17 PM)
you ok or not???  hmm.gif

we buy the tank from poland which they have right to produce it and its spare part iinm...

SU30 spare part from china???got sos to support that??AFAIK we buy direct from russian
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You don't know how to read? MY was planning to buy tanks from Russia instead of Poland at first. Russia blacklisted MY for recognising Kosovo and Bosnia triggered Russians at that time.

You want SOS on MY buying China parts for Su30 during blacklist period, go check with internal related people as news like these aren't allowed to announce on news.
jayraptor
post Aug 8 2019, 09:57 PM

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QUOTE(zacky chan @ Aug 7 2019, 09:23 PM)
should wait until 2040 i think...better complete AV8 2nd batch,new heli and get new JLTV for our land force..after that go for MBT.

nowadays people see how MBT really weight a lot and slow in battlefield which make it easy for ATGM squad to kill or immobilize them. so the interest shift to well armed APC and light tank. that is why in defense expo a lot of this type vehicle was shown.
*
Iraqi Republican Guards have numbers of AT14 Kornet during their last stand against US and UK invasion tanks storming the cities. How many Abram and Challenger being destroyed? Only 1 Challenger disabled but failed to penetrate and few Abrams disabled , lastly the most famous footage on news, 1 Abram on fire where the TC became rambo using the top m2 browning to finish off the insurgents before pulling his injured tank crew out of tank.

Standard US & NATO MBT top speed 70-72kmh, Russian mbt 70-80kmh. IFV 65-70kmh, APC 80-100kmh on the road. Off road, APC speed could end up lower than MBT. Your point is you think APC and IFV really that fast in the eyes of AT & Tank visual sight? Unless you're up against enemy with outdated armour, most of your AT soldiers will only get the chance in urban warfare if up against country with modern MBT. If your enemy is good at strategy, those MBTs are never alone and won't go into danger narrow spot without scouts and platoon conducting sweep ahead. That explains why Iraqi army fell so easily in urban warfare against US & UK that deployed tactical warfare unlike Russians vs Chechen rebels.
zacky chan
post Aug 8 2019, 10:02 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 8 2019, 09:33 PM)
You don't know how to read? MY was planning to buy tanks from Russia instead of Poland at first. Russia blacklisted MY for recognising Kosovo and Bosnia triggered Russians at that time.

You want SOS on MY buying China parts for Su30 during blacklist period, go check with internal related people as news like these aren't allowed to announce on news.
*
wait what???russian black list MY??i must miss that news....make me really proud russian give fuark about what we think laugh.gif

atreyuangel we buying chinese spare part for SU30??
jayraptor
post Aug 8 2019, 10:03 PM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Aug 7 2019, 08:28 PM)
wat happened to msia's attack heli?

yea, but not everywhere is jungle... msia is urbanized... leave urban area to enemy n hide in jungle?
lelz, that insurgency... aka iraq afghan... after the country hancur already
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Already spent the cash on submarine as the focus on #1 enemy is Singaland navy. If bought helicopters instead, those Sulu invaders who came in hundreds of boats will be brutally massacred before they could slip into Sabah.
atreyuangel
post Aug 8 2019, 10:07 PM

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QUOTE(zacky chan @ Aug 8 2019, 10:02 PM)
wait what???russian black list MY??i must miss that news....make me really proud russian give fuark about what we think  laugh.gif

atreyuangel  we buying chinese spare part for SU30??
*
As of right now we bought from 3 country
1. Rosonboronexport
2. India
3. China

but as for India and China are the only small parts that still hold licensing from Rosoboroexport only

plus as of right now we also started to makes small parts for MKM here in Gong Kedak

blacklist period dia tu bullshit ja, kalau blacklist takde la T90 datang testing kat Gemas tu dulu
zacky chan
post Aug 8 2019, 10:07 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 8 2019, 09:57 PM)
Iraqi Republican Guards have numbers of AT14 Kornet during their last stand against US and UK invasion tanks storming the cities. How many Abram and Challenger being destroyed? Only 1 Challenger disabled but failed to penetrate and few Abrams disabled , lastly the most famous footage on news, 1 Abram on fire where the TC became rambo using the top m2 browning to finish off the insurgents before pulling his injured tank crew out of tank.

Standard US & NATO MBT top speed 70-72kmh, Russian mbt 70-80kmh. IFV 65-70kmh, APC 80-100kmh on the road. Off road, APC speed could end up lower than MBT. Your point is you think APC and IFV really that fast in the eyes of AT & Tank visual sight? Unless you're up against enemy with outdated armour, most of your AT soldiers will only get the chance in urban warfare if up against country with modern MBT. If your enemy is good at strategy, those MBTs are never alone and won't go into danger narrow spot without scouts and platoon conducting sweep ahead. That explains why Iraqi army fell so easily in urban warfare against US & UK that deployed tactical warfare unlike Russians vs Chechen rebels.
*
comparing iraqi vs US....i dont even know what to say bro...

both country strategy toward enemy are different...just look at the amount of plane and tank of iraq. Iraq not modernize their military thus having problem there...

i replied to the previous guy cause in term of our country, we will have an urban setting war...
jayraptor
post Aug 8 2019, 10:08 PM

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QUOTE(zacky chan @ Aug 8 2019, 10:02 PM)
wait what???russian black list MY??i must miss that news....make me really proud russian give fuark about what we think  laugh.gif

atreyuangel  we buying chinese spare part for SU30??
*
your sos is only google that explains your mentality. Can I google for your maybank login password? It's not about what you think, a country recognised another country's sovereign is recorded at UN. You think that Russia blind cannot see the list of countries that recognised Bosnia & Kosovo? Mid east countries allied to Russia didn't recognise that 2 breakaway regions sovereign.
zacky chan
post Aug 8 2019, 10:09 PM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Aug 8 2019, 10:07 PM)
As of right now we bought from 3 country
1. Rosonboronexport
2. India
3. China

but as for India and China are the only small parts that still hold licensing from Rosoboroexport only

plus as of right now we also started to makes small parts for MKM here in Gong Kedak

blacklist period dia tu bullshit ja, kalau blacklist takde la T90 datang testing kat Gemas tu dulu
*
that is why i ask...read before at mr marhalim blog about buying spare part from china...but from the comment its not much to make noise...actually what spare part do we source from them???
zacky chan
post Aug 8 2019, 10:11 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 8 2019, 10:08 PM)
your sos is only google that explains your mentality. Can I google for your maybank login password? It's not about what you think, a country recognised another country's sovereign is recorded at UN. You think that Russia blind cannot see the list of countries that recognised Bosnia & Kosovo? Mid east countries allied to Russia didn't recognise that 2 breakaway regions sovereign.
*
dude...your weed is really high in quality....again...russia dont give fuark to other bro...why do they give fuark to us... laugh.gif


jayraptor
post Aug 8 2019, 10:15 PM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Aug 8 2019, 10:07 PM)
As of right now we bought from 3 country
1. Rosonboronexport
2. India
3. China

but as for India and China are the only small parts that still hold licensing from Rosoboroexport only

plus as of right now we also started to makes small parts for MKM here in Gong Kedak

blacklist period dia tu bullshit ja, kalau blacklist takde la T90 datang testing kat Gemas tu dulu
*
Utk pengetahuan ko, sykt keta kebal Rusia datang buat demo xde masalah. Tapi bila sampai ke tangan kerajaan Rusia kalo jadi beli, tu yg kena tolak. Pergi rujuk kementerian ketika tempoh senarai hitam. Rusia geram, tudm terpaksa beli part dgn China. Sikit2 bs, x boleh debat boleh belah.
atreyuangel
post Aug 8 2019, 10:34 PM

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QUOTE(zacky chan @ Aug 8 2019, 10:11 PM)
dude...your weed is really high in quality....again...russia dont give fuark to other bro...why do they give fuark to us...  laugh.gif
*
itu info dia, kalo benda bullshit aku direct cakap bullshit

QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 8 2019, 10:15 PM)
Utk pengetahuan ko, sykt keta kebal Rusia datang buat demo xde masalah. Tapi bila sampai ke tangan kerajaan Rusia kalo jadi beli, tu yg kena tolak. Pergi rujuk kementerian ketika tempoh senarai hitam. Rusia geram, tudm terpaksa beli part dgn China. Sikit2 bs, x boleh debat boleh belah.
*
mcm mana aku nak percaya cakap kau
macam aku pernah bagi tau sebelum ni, boss aku antara salah seorang yang terlibat didalam proses pembelian pendekar ni. Dan boss dia sendiri (lagi besar) antara salah seorang ke Russia untuk proses rundingan utnuk pembelian

apa macam?

ko setakat dengar cerita ini dari pada 1st hand party sendiri
KLthinker91
post Aug 8 2019, 10:41 PM

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QUOTE(EBBattlefield @ Aug 8 2019, 08:38 AM)
just dont drive like arabs

user posted image
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Topkek

And I thought the water fording fuckups were bad biggrin.gif
Fat & Fluffy
post Aug 8 2019, 10:54 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 9 2019, 12:03 AM)
Already spent the cash on submarine as the focus on #1 enemy is Singaland navy. If bought helicopters instead, those Sulu invaders who came in hundreds of boats will be brutally massacred before they could slip into Sabah.
*
haih.. so sad, without songlapz msia would probably had gotten 3 subs... $$$ for helis already paid, flying terror egg also have not arrived... so sad
failed.hashcheck
post Aug 8 2019, 11:09 PM

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QUOTE(azhan82 @ Aug 6 2019, 08:06 PM)
i remember talking to a few staff working for a local defense company..
said tanks were useless in malaysia..
Better off buying those 8/6 wheel vehicles..
*
Pretty sure 'Malaysia' area and terrain variety are magnitude more than your average Battlefield 4 map.
atreyuangel
post Aug 9 2019, 01:59 AM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Aug 8 2019, 10:54 PM)
haih.. so sad, without songlapz msia would probably had gotten 3 subs... $$$ for helis already paid, flying terror egg also have not arrived... so sad
*
aku tanya sikit, ko tahu tak kenapa Lil Bird tak sampai lagi ni?
berlagak macam tahu sangat!
Fat & Fluffy
post Aug 9 2019, 05:02 AM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Aug 9 2019, 03:59 AM)
aku tanya sikit, ko tahu tak kenapa Lil Bird tak sampai lagi ni?
berlagak macam tahu sangat!
*
even if it has arrived, it is a little too late.. but better late than nvr... and better to admit songlapz than to act high n mighty pretending ntg happened
SUSEBBattlefield
post Aug 9 2019, 07:49 AM

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QUOTE(Frozen_Sun @ Aug 8 2019, 06:48 PM)
Use palm oil to pay AV-8 too?
*
palm oil for pt91
astronaut for Su30
av8 was tech transfer
atreyuangel
post Aug 9 2019, 09:43 AM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Aug 9 2019, 05:02 AM)
even if it has arrived, it is a little too late.. but better late than nvr... and better to admit songlapz than to act high n mighty pretending ntg happened
*
ok, so you just all talk la then
even with the US issue notification regarding the MD530G also you failed to take notice
lepas tu kata songlap, pretend not happened

laugh.gif


berlagak high and mighty tetapi apa isi pun tak ada macma typical political zombie innocent.gif

welldone
Spaceman_27
post Aug 9 2019, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(9ine @ Aug 6 2019, 10:10 PM)
PT91 vs Thailand's T84 Oplot... which one will win?

Both also descended from Soviet designs and both countries Poland and Ukraine are former  Soviet/Warsaw Pact
*
Thailand has acquired new tank from China, lighter body so easier to go cross country in tropical jungle. If not mistaken Malaysia is also looking into the Turkish-Indonesian joint project for a light tank
Frozen_Sun
post Aug 9 2019, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(EBBattlefield @ Aug 9 2019, 07:49 AM)
palm oil for pt91
astronaut for Su30
av8 was tech transfer
*
Then it's pure cash to get AV-8 and its tech transfer?
Fat & Fluffy
post Aug 9 2019, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Aug 9 2019, 11:43 AM)
ok, so you just all talk la then
even with the US issue notification regarding the MD530G also you failed to take notice
lepas tu kata songlap, pretend not happened

laugh.gif
berlagak high and mighty tetapi apa isi pun tak ada macma typical political zombie innocent.gif

welldone
*
yada yada yada... where's the heli? why the delay? what's with the inflated px? how about the weak procurement process?

all doesnt matter.... notification more important... dunno wat notification also...
atreyuangel
post Aug 9 2019, 12:08 PM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Aug 9 2019, 10:52 AM)
yada yada yada... where's the heli? why the delay? what's with the inflated px? how about the weak procurement process?

all doesnt matter.... notification more important... dunno wat notification also...
*
If you have a sense of integrity and self respect carik sendiri, bukti dah depan mata pun buta lagi

dasar hati hitam punya zombie

kalau muka tak malu minta ngan klaxoon.my dia dah tunjuk dulu


MilitaryMadness
post Aug 9 2019, 12:17 PM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Aug 9 2019, 10:52 AM)
yada yada yada... where's the heli? why the delay? what's with the inflated px? how about the weak procurement process?

all doesnt matter.... notification more important... dunno wat notification also...
*
Meh I help u if u malas laugh.gif

QUOTE
PETALING JAYA: Six US attack helicopters commissioned by the Defence Ministry (Mindef) in 2016 are still waiting for “take off” as the government has ordered an investigation into the deal.

The MD-530G helicopters were ordered by the ministry through a private company in Malaysia at a purchase price of RM321mil.

A reliable source said Mindef was believed to have paid RM120mil to Arizona-based MD Helicopters via the private company.

However, the source said the firm was not able to fulfil the contract after two years resulting in a public-listed company stepping in to take over.

The source said the new company forked out RM100mil to the US aircraft maker.


“The public-listed firm saw the deal for its business potential in maintenance and repair of the helicopters.

“The terms and conditions of the original deal were unusual,” said the source.


Defence Minister Mohamad Sabu confirmed that the deal was being reviewed by the Governance, Pro­curement and Finance Investigating Committee (GPFIC).

“I will not comment on the issue of the helicopters until the investigation into the contract is comple­ted and I have received a complete report on it,” he said in a WhatsApp message.

He declined to say whether Min­def would accept the helicopters should they be delivered by the manufacturer before the go-ahead was given.

The minister made a plea last week for speculation on the deal to cease until the investigation was over.

GPFIC, chaired by the former auditor-general Tan Sri Ambrin Buang, was set up to investigate projects by the previous government as well as to advise the Pakatan Harapan government on how to ensure effective procurement and prevent leakages.

Then defence minister Datuk Seri Hishamuddin Hussein was first reported to have said that the helicopters would arrive in 2017 and then by September 2018.

Checks showed that this March, the Malaysia-bound MD-530G helicopters were showcased at the Heli-Expo 2019 event in Atlanta, Georgia.

A video showed MD Helicopter programme manager Luke Puleo as saying that the six light attack helicopters would be flown to Malaysia in batches in June and August this year.

He said the choppers had two cameras, two screens, upgraded tactical radios, various guided and unguided ammunition, mini-guns and could install four different rockets and guided rockets.

According to Facebook group Malaysia Military Power, which has about 200,000 followers, the helicopters were meant for the Eastern Sabah Security Command which oversees the Eastern Sabah Security Zone.

sos
Fat & Fluffy
post Aug 9 2019, 12:30 PM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Aug 9 2019, 02:08 PM)
If you have a sense of integrity and self respect carik sendiri, bukti dah depan mata pun buta lagi

dasar hati hitam punya zombie

kalau muka tak malu minta ngan klaxoon.my dia dah tunjuk dulu
*
where's the heli?

QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Aug 9 2019, 02:17 PM)
Meh I help u if u malas  laugh.gif
*
all these known already... where's the heli?
MilitaryMadness
post Aug 9 2019, 01:23 PM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Aug 9 2019, 12:30 PM)
where's the heli?
all these known already... where's the heli?
*
As said, the acquisition is still under gov investigation on suspicion of malpractice & corruption. Until that is done no MD-530G la for PUTD.

What more u want?

Fat & Fluffy
post Aug 9 2019, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Aug 9 2019, 03:23 PM)
As said, the acquisition is still under gov investigation on suspicion of malpractice & corruption. Until that is done no MD-530G la for PUTD.

What more u want?
*
dat is what i want... no bebird in sight... so sad
sniper on the roof
post Aug 9 2019, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(EBBattlefield @ Aug 8 2019, 08:38 AM)
just dont drive like arabs

user posted image
*
Or buy PRC tanks


atreyuangel
post Aug 9 2019, 03:34 PM

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QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ Aug 9 2019, 01:23 PM)
As said, the acquisition is still under gov investigation on suspicion of malpractice & corruption. Until that is done no MD-530G la for PUTD.

What more u want?
*
If the government choose to take the helicopter according to the original schedule
we will only have a receiving ceremony in US

the heli will still need undergo AWR by FAA until December 2019 this year in the US

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/23453/MD_...rs#.XU0hVkdS9UQ

tu pasal aku kata mamat Malaysia terbuang kat Singapore ni Hati hitam, perut pulak busuk bernanah penuh hasad dengki tu pasal otak selalu fikir benda tak elok tu pasal dia tak tahu Malaysia beli heli ni dari US secara DCS Government dengan Government .

Semoga perut ko yang penuh busung nanah hati hitam tu pecah nanti pasal asik dok sangka buruk

This post has been edited by atreyuangel: Aug 9 2019, 03:35 PM
Mai189
post Aug 9 2019, 03:40 PM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Aug 9 2019, 03:34 PM)
If the government choose to take the helicopter according to the original schedule
we will only have a receiving ceremony in US

the heli will still need undergo AWR by FAA until December 2019 this year in the US

https://www.defenseworld.net/news/23453/MD_...rs#.XU0hVkdS9UQ

tu pasal aku kata mamat Malaysia terbuang kat Singapore ni Hati hitam, perut pulak busuk bernanah penuh hasad dengki tu pasal otak selalu fikir benda tak elok tu pasal dia tak tahu  Malaysia beli heli ni dari US secara DCS Government dengan Government .

Semoga perut ko yang penuh busung nanah hati hitam tu pecah nanti pasal asik dok sangka buruk
*
Takerperla. Nanti kau cari dia minta maaf. Atau dia cari kau minta maaf di akhir zaman.
atreyuangel
post Aug 9 2019, 06:41 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ Aug 9 2019, 03:40 PM)
Takerperla. Nanti kau cari dia minta maaf. Atau dia cari kau minta maaf di akhir zaman.
*
Apa ko nak cakap ni syaiton laugh.gif

sekrang ni dah masuk akhir zaman dah pun

dok tunggu busung santau angin sampai kat dia ja
periuk_api1209
post Aug 9 2019, 06:49 PM

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PT91 pendekar during ex... Movement supported by ifv and inf...not sure about others mbt but PT91 is suitable with our environment..



This post has been edited by periuk_api1209: Aug 9 2019, 06:58 PM
KLthinker91
post Aug 9 2019, 07:53 PM

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atreyuangel
post Aug 9 2019, 08:51 PM

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QUOTE(periuk_api1209 @ Aug 9 2019, 06:49 PM)
PT91 pendekar during ex... Movement supported by ifv and inf...not sure about others mbt but PT91 is suitable with our environment..


*
Waktu Eks Rhino dlu kat Johor, berbelas pendekar panjat bukit sawit

tinggal semalaman, mendap gak sikit
Mai189
post Aug 9 2019, 09:07 PM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Aug 9 2019, 06:41 PM)
Apa ko nak cakap ni syaiton  laugh.gif

sekrang ni dah masuk akhir zaman dah pun

dok tunggu busung santau angin sampai kat dia ja
*
Santau enh...bagusla tuh. Express ticket masuk neraka jahanam. Sedap maki orang. Dosa manusia ko tanggung la.

atreyuangel
post Aug 9 2019, 09:38 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ Aug 9 2019, 09:07 PM)
Santau enh...bagusla tuh. Express ticket masuk neraka jahanam. Sedap maki orang. Dosa manusia ko tanggung la.
*
ko pun nak jugak ke?
ada pakej ni buy 1 free 1
post laju jin ifrit pasir berdengung!

boleh berbusung sama-sama laugh.gif
jayraptor
post Aug 9 2019, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Aug 9 2019, 10:52 AM)
yada yada yada... where's the heli? why the delay? what's with the inflated px? how about the weak procurement process?

all doesnt matter.... notification more important... dunno wat notification also...
*
Ignore that atreyuangel that thinks only himself correct just because he has friend involved in tank purchase but no connection to higher level pipul from military & ministry.

For civilian, just learn as much about military as hobby and future reference.
ohman
post Aug 9 2019, 10:28 PM

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hutan banyak, RPG dari belakang?

owai
jayraptor
post Aug 9 2019, 10:37 PM

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QUOTE(Spaceman_27 @ Aug 9 2019, 09:50 AM)
Thailand has acquired new tank from China, lighter body so easier to go cross country in tropical jungle. If not mistaken Malaysia is also looking into the Turkish-Indonesian joint project for a light tank
*
Thailand been actively buying from PRC after PRC military equipments proven in combat being used by militants, Hezbollah, Syrian, Yemen, Pakistan.

Shang class submarine, PRC done marketing by sneaking past Indian naval fleet undetected on journey to Pakistan. That's main reason Thailand wanted to buy PRC submarine besides cheaper.

Think Thai army operates VT3 and shown interest in VT4. For Russian armour, they only came up with good world class standard ones after they provided shaped and tandem charged warheads to militants and resistance army in Iraq and Afghanistan via third party to conduct real combat effectiveness against western armour. Russian came up with tungsten round and new armour ever since then as proven on the newer T90 variant in Syria. Not sure PRC gets to share Russian armour and warhead technology.
atreyuangel
post Aug 9 2019, 11:05 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 9 2019, 10:21 PM)
Ignore that atreyuangel that thinks only himself correct just because he has friend involved in tank purchase but no connection to higher level pipul from military & ministry.

For civilian, just learn as much about military as hobby and future reference.
*
aku bagi facts
macam kes heli siap ada bukti
kalo tak boleh terima bukan masalah aku

kalau setakat cakap je busung dari singpore pun boleh bah!


gini lah tak payah susah, ko tulis bila tahun Russia blacklisted Malaysia tu
biar aku tengok apa biletaral Russia dengan KErajaan Malaysia ada buat waktu tu

or at least Russian company present during Malaysia official exibitions and stuff

This post has been edited by atreyuangel: Aug 9 2019, 11:07 PM
Mai189
post Aug 9 2019, 11:45 PM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Aug 9 2019, 09:38 PM)
ko pun nak jugak ke?
ada pakej ni buy 1 free 1
post laju jin ifrit pasir berdengung!

boleh berbusung sama-sama  laugh.gif
*
Sebab tu aku cakap ko ini kurang ajar. Ugama pi maner. Adat pi maner. Kelakuan orang cina lagi sopan.

This post has been edited by Mai189: Aug 9 2019, 11:46 PM
Mai189
post Aug 9 2019, 11:47 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 9 2019, 10:21 PM)
Ignore that atreyuangel that thinks only himself correct just because he has friend involved in tank purchase but no connection to higher level pipul from military & ministry.

For civilian, just learn as much about military as hobby and future reference.
*
I doubt his credibility.

atreyuangel
post Aug 10 2019, 12:05 AM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ Aug 9 2019, 11:45 PM)
Sebab tu aku cakap ko ini kurang ajar. Ugama pi maner. Adat pi maner. Kelakuan orang cina lagi sopan.
*
sekarang baru nak main agama nak main bangsa
ni akhir zaman beroo

QUOTE(Mai189 @ Aug 9 2019, 11:47 PM)
I doubt his credibility.
*
Aku hanyalah hamba sahaya
hanya ada bomoh siam dan bomoh orang asli aja laugh.gif

forum macam /k pun nak serius,
sini bukan hardwarezone


ps: anywho, mmg pt91M ni aja procurement yang aku bleh berlagak bila berkerja dengan orang yang directly involved with the procurement dari testing sampai la depa nak ship to Malaysia. lain2 aku tak la berani nak cakap apa2

This post has been edited by atreyuangel: Aug 10 2019, 12:11 AM
Mai189
post Aug 10 2019, 12:16 AM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Aug 10 2019, 12:05 AM)
sekarang baru nak main agama nak main bangsa
ni akhir zaman beroo
Aku hanyalah hamba sahaya
hanya ada bomoh siam dan bomoh orang asli aja  laugh.gif

forum macam /k pun nak serius,
sini bukan hardwarezone
ps: anywho, mmg pt91M ni aja procurement yang aku bleh berlagak bila berkerja dengan orang yang directly involved with the procurement dari testing sampai la depa nak ship to Malaysia. lain2 aku tak la berani nak cakap apa2
*
Oh sekarang cakap main main enh. Sakitkan hati orang main main enh. Jawab la nanti. Hak manusia masing masing.

zacky chan
post Aug 10 2019, 12:23 AM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 9 2019, 10:21 PM)
Ignore that atreyuangel that thinks only himself correct just because he has friend involved in tank purchase but no connection to higher level pipul from military & ministry.

For civilian, just learn as much about military as hobby and future reference.
*
the problem here is because the info you spouting is way of base bro....
zacky chan
post Aug 10 2019, 12:30 AM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ Aug 9 2019, 11:47 PM)
I doubt his credibility.
*
credibility???aren't you the guy that believe ATGM on USV can deal a lot damage on surface vessel before??? hmm.gif

even after MilitaryMadness explain the differences in warhead type and explosive in ATGM and AShM? hmm.gif

or maybe its the other guy

This post has been edited by zacky chan: Aug 10 2019, 12:51 AM
Fat & Fluffy
post Aug 10 2019, 01:00 AM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 10 2019, 12:21 AM)
Ignore that atreyuangel that thinks only himself correct just because he has friend involved in tank purchase but no connection to higher level pipul from military & ministry.

For civilian, just learn as much about military as hobby and future reference.
*
cannot ignore him.. he tagged... lol... we engage each other here la... hopefully for constructive purposes...

QUOTE(Mai189 @ Aug 10 2019, 02:16 AM)
Oh sekarang cakap main main enh. Sakitkan hati orang main main enh. Jawab la nanti. Hak manusia masing masing.
*
jgn marah bang... rilekz
Raddus
post Aug 10 2019, 01:05 AM

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QUOTE(periuk_api1209 @ Aug 9 2019, 06:49 PM)
PT91 pendekar during ex... Movement supported by ifv and inf...not sure about others mbt but PT91 is suitable with our environment..


*
Indonesia also same terrain as Malaysia yet use Leopard 2


atreyuangel
post Aug 10 2019, 01:12 AM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ Aug 10 2019, 12:16 AM)
Oh sekarang cakap main main enh. Sakitkan hati orang main main enh. Jawab la nanti. Hak manusia masing masing.
*
mak aih you really think all the santau all real threat ka?
the hati busung et all

omg....

mann I apologize if I make you uncomfortable or offended

QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Aug 10 2019, 01:00 AM)
cannot ignore him.. he tagged... lol... we engage each other here la... hopefully for constructive purposes...
jgn marah bang... rilekz
*
abang, tell me the truth, you really terasa ka all our bickering since the past years?
it is all in the internet or you really campak pc in your home wan? sad.gif
Fat & Fluffy
post Aug 10 2019, 08:41 AM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Aug 10 2019, 03:12 AM)
abang, tell me the truth, you really terasa ka all our bickering since the past years?
it is all in the internet or you really campak pc in your home wan?  sad.gif
*
no mang, i get aroused...
azbro
post Aug 10 2019, 08:47 AM

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Kecian, Malaysia jungle so little pokok one... All kena cut down already and sold for Songlap.
periuk_api1209
post Aug 10 2019, 11:34 AM

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QUOTE(Raddus @ Aug 10 2019, 01:05 AM)
Indonesia also same terrain as Malaysia yet use Leopard 2
*
Agreed..but leo movement byk sangkut and not agile compare tu pt91..also leo engine got during their ex..
atreyuangel
post Aug 10 2019, 12:53 PM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Aug 10 2019, 08:41 AM)
no mang, i get aroused...
*
deng need to do that moar
SUSharumanis_man
post Aug 10 2019, 01:00 PM

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QUOTE(amanu @ Aug 6 2019, 08:06 PM)
buatan poland. tak sesuai untuk muka bumi malaysia.

lagipun penggunaa ERA dah ketinggalan zaman.
*
Based on t 72 variant

That tank was smash and annihilated during the gulf war

No composite armour and very vulnerable to RPG mind as well throw in dust bin

Then have to slab so much reactive armour around it

Should go for tanks with composite or chob Ham armour like leopard A2
Fat & Fluffy
post Aug 10 2019, 04:38 PM

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QUOTE(harumanis_man @ Aug 10 2019, 03:00 PM)
Based on t 72 variant

That tank was smash and annihilated during the gulf war

No composite armour and very vulnerable to RPG mind as well throw in dust bin

Then have to slab so much reactive armour around it

Should go for tanks with composite or chob Ham armour like leopard A2
*
sg no rpg icon_idea.gif
SUSharumanis_man
post Aug 10 2019, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Aug 10 2019, 04:38 PM)
sg no rpg  icon_idea.gif
*
South Filipino has
jayraptor
post Aug 11 2019, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(zacky chan @ Aug 10 2019, 12:23 AM)
the problem here is because the info you spouting is way of base bro....
*
Problem with your mentality is sos only come from google and website. atreyuangel posted numbers of news that aren't found on google neither yet you belip.

Talking about man portable AT missile and grenade, you haven't explained why the highly trained Republican Guards and insurgents failed to blow up that many US & UK mbt as per your effectiveness? Answer is because it all depends on tactics and strategies. Saudi Arabia with Abrams got knocked out by houthi rebels because they charged in without infantry making them easy target.

Guess you judge this based on playing bf4. Don't forget there's new trophy, arena, shtora, netting & PRC blinding laser pod to counter AT missiles to improve tanks survival. Don't forget, mbt has thermal imaging to spot enemies from far and new anti-personnel rounds to take out soldiers hiding in buildings. You will always be in disadvantage if you're not having mbt in your inventory. Not all AT missiles good and don't expect 1 hit 1 kill if you're up against proper mbt. Those easy kill you see are mostly outdated old T72 without separate ammo compartment prone to cookoff.
jayraptor
post Aug 11 2019, 12:21 PM

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QUOTE(Mai189 @ Aug 9 2019, 11:47 PM)
I doubt his credibility.
*
Based on some of his point, he has friend to ask for some answers. The rest he will post based on google or puzzle himself. Not sure why he became so personal and triggered whenever others posted comments. Maybe teruja thinking he has link to 1 military related relative and friend, only he could post facts.
jayraptor
post Aug 11 2019, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Aug 10 2019, 01:00 AM)
cannot ignore him.. he tagged... lol... we engage each other here la... hopefully for constructive purposes...
jgn marah bang... rilekz
*
he tagged me also but didn't bother to reply him. The moment I saw him kept asking which year was the blacklist, he already answered his friend or relative is only linked to selection or purchase part at most, nothing more like those subcontract to certain outsource party. Not the decision maker that actually knows the whole thing like the blacklist part.
jayraptor
post Aug 11 2019, 12:32 PM

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QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ Aug 10 2019, 04:38 PM)
sg no rpg  icon_idea.gif
*
US & Nato no longer produce RPG after seeing the poor effective range and less penetrative power. They still have the LAW launcher but used for anti-personnel instead. They have AT4 for basic anti-armour and the javelin equivalent for higher end.

SG army use matador (man-portable) and spike (hellfire, tow equivalent) for AT purpose.
jayraptor
post Aug 11 2019, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(harumanis_man @ Aug 10 2019, 01:00 PM)
Based on t 72 variant

That tank was smash and annihilated during the gulf war

No composite armour and very vulnerable to RPG mind as well throw in dust bin

Then have to slab so much reactive armour around it

Should go for tanks with composite or chob Ham armour like leopard A2
*
What mbt would you suggest? US m1a2 only for allies so this is out of the list.
Challenger 2 best armour, Leopard 2a6 best gun and mobility, Leclerc fast and most fuel efficient but armour, gun question mark. European tanks are expensive in price and parts. Separate crew compartment & ammo storage.

Russian T90MS export version, armour said to be comparable to west after selling tandem charged warheads on IED, AT missiles & RPG to insurgents, militants tested on western mbt & tanks experiments. Main gun fires new tungsten round after experiment claimed could penetrate western mbt. Can get arena or shtora anti-missile defenses upgrade package. Crew and ammo compartment not separated prone to cookoff.

PRC VT4 with copy version of Russian smoothbore 2a46, tank round not sure as good as new generation russian tungsten. Armour not sure on par with new Russian t90m. Anti missile defense relies on laser pod blinder. No separate crew and ammo storage.

Fat & Fluffy
post Aug 11 2019, 12:47 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 11 2019, 02:32 PM)
US & Nato no longer produce RPG after seeing the poor effective range and less penetrative power. They still have the LAW launcher but used for anti-personnel instead. They have AT4 for basic anti-armour and the javelin equivalent for higher end.

SG army use matador (man-portable) and spike (hellfire, tow equivalent) for AT purpose.
*
hahaha, just messing with him ler... biggrin.gif
SUSharumanis_man
post Aug 11 2019, 01:40 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 11 2019, 12:18 PM)
Problem with your mentality is sos only come from google and website. atreyuangel posted numbers of news that aren't found on google neither yet you belip.

Talking about man portable AT missile and grenade, you haven't explained why the highly trained Republican Guards and insurgents failed to blow up that many US & UK mbt as per your effectiveness? Answer is because it all depends on tactics and strategies. Saudi Arabia with Abrams got knocked out by houthi rebels because they charged in without infantry making them easy target.

Guess you judge this based on playing bf4. Don't forget there's new trophy, arena, shtora, netting & PRC blinding laser pod to counter AT missiles to improve tanks survival. Don't forget, mbt has thermal imaging to spot enemies from far and new anti-personnel rounds to take out soldiers hiding in buildings. You will always be in disadvantage if you're not having mbt in your inventory. Not all AT missiles good and don't expect 1 hit 1 kill if you're up against proper mbt. Those easy kill you see are mostly outdated old T72 without separate ammo compartment prone to cookoff.
*
Get the armata tank
zacky chan
post Aug 11 2019, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 11 2019, 12:18 PM)
Problem with your mentality is sos only come from google and website. atreyuangel posted numbers of news that aren't found on google neither yet you belip.

Talking about man portable AT missile and grenade, you haven't explained why the highly trained Republican Guards and insurgents failed to blow up that many US & UK mbt as per your effectiveness? Answer is because it all depends on tactics and strategies. Saudi Arabia with Abrams got knocked out by houthi rebels because they charged in without infantry making them easy target.

Guess you judge this based on playing bf4. Don't forget there's new trophy, arena, shtora, netting & PRC blinding laser pod to counter AT missiles to improve tanks survival. Don't forget, mbt has thermal imaging to spot enemies from far and new anti-personnel rounds to take out soldiers hiding in buildings. You will always be in disadvantage if you're not having mbt in your inventory. Not all AT missiles good and don't expect 1 hit 1 kill if you're up against proper mbt. Those easy kill you see are mostly outdated old T72 without separate ammo compartment prone to cookoff.
*
hahahahahah....oh god...man.....you really high on weed laugh.gif


atreyuangel
post Aug 11 2019, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 11 2019, 12:18 PM)
Problem with your mentality is sos only come from google and website. atreyuangel posted numbers of news that aren't found on google neither yet you belip.

Talking about man portable AT missile and grenade, you haven't explained why the highly trained Republican Guards and insurgents failed to blow up that many US & UK mbt as per your effectiveness? Answer is because it all depends on tactics and strategies. Saudi Arabia with Abrams got knocked out by houthi rebels because they charged in without infantry making them easy target.

Guess you judge this based on playing bf4. Don't forget there's new trophy, arena, shtora, netting & PRC blinding laser pod to counter AT missiles to improve tanks survival. Don't forget, mbt has thermal imaging to spot enemies from far and new anti-personnel rounds to take out soldiers hiding in buildings. You will always be in disadvantage if you're not having mbt in your inventory. Not all AT missiles good and don't expect 1 hit 1 kill if you're up against proper mbt. Those easy kill you see are mostly outdated old T72 without separate ammo compartment prone to cookoff.
*
haha
ko tunggu if UAV or LCA was chosen from a certain company

lagi berlagak aku bagi details nanti

btw Happy Eid Adha everybody

This post has been edited by atreyuangel: Aug 11 2019, 03:38 PM
atreyuangel
post Aug 11 2019, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 11 2019, 12:25 PM)
he tagged me also but didn't bother to reply him. The moment I saw him kept asking which year was the blacklist, he already answered his friend or relative is only linked to selection or purchase part at most, nothing more like those subcontract to certain outsource party. Not the decision maker that actually knows the whole thing like the blacklist part.
*
Senang je, kalau ko boleh bagi aku tahun, aku try carik Russian delegates that were present in Malaysia during you so called "blacklist year". benda ni senang je, tak payah nak complicated sangat pun

Btw aku tak main la oursource-outsource ni please la, local agent, MRO and supplies is the ones that makes the most money!
zacky chan
post Aug 11 2019, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Aug 11 2019, 03:38 PM)
haha
ko tunggu if UAV or LCA was chosen from a certain company

lagi berlagak aku bagi details nanti

btw Happy Eid Adha everybody
*
wa.....ada berita best pasal LCA dan UAV tu ke??cer cite siket laugh.gif

selamat hari raya aidiladha untuk semua disini
atreyuangel
post Aug 11 2019, 05:55 PM

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QUOTE(zacky chan @ Aug 11 2019, 03:58 PM)
wa.....ada berita best pasal LCA dan UAV tu ke??cer cite siket  laugh.gif

selamat hari raya aidiladha untuk semua disini
*
mana ada, tender tak decide lagi

of course I wish for certain type of LCA is chosen from certain company
and the UAV too

although other company candidate is good too

too bad another company with Scorpion jets unable to join the tender, if join and won boleh pencen awal aku
zacky chan
post Aug 11 2019, 06:03 PM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Aug 11 2019, 05:55 PM)
mana ada, tender tak decide lagi

of course I wish for certain type of LCA is chosen from certain company
and the UAV too

although other company candidate is good too

too bad another company with Scorpion jets unable to join the tender, if join and won boleh pencen awal aku
*
brape banyk bajet govt bagi untl LCA dan UAV tu ye??

UAV kalo la dapat US made tu bagus jugak...tapi mahal tu cry.gif
atreyuangel
post Aug 11 2019, 06:20 PM

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QUOTE(zacky chan @ Aug 11 2019, 06:03 PM)
brape banyk bajet govt bagi untl LCA dan UAV tu ye??

UAV kalo la dapat US made tu bagus jugak...tapi mahal tu   cry.gif
*
tak banyak laugh.gif

for US item kadang2 lagi jimat if the US decide to put FMA into account
Hot Transfer and etc pun akan lebih menjimatkan

This post has been edited by atreyuangel: Aug 11 2019, 06:22 PM
zacky chan
post Aug 11 2019, 06:29 PM

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QUOTE(atreyuangel @ Aug 11 2019, 06:20 PM)
tak banyak laugh.gif

for US item kadang2 lagi jimat if the US decide to put FMA into account
Hot Transfer and etc pun akan lebih menjimatkan
*
tak banyk yang tak larat tu..dah la RM rendah...bace dkt malaysiandefense macam nak beli batch siket2....tp govt dari dulu lembab dan hampeh bab beli batch ni...

bawah exPM4 ni,ada pluang ke US nak bagi discount??silap2 dapat UAV made in turkey
atreyuangel
post Aug 11 2019, 06:44 PM

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QUOTE(zacky chan @ Aug 11 2019, 06:29 PM)
tak banyk yang tak larat tu..dah la RM rendah...bace dkt malaysiandefense macam nak beli batch siket2....tp govt dari dulu lembab dan hampeh bab beli batch ni...

bawah exPM4 ni,ada pluang ke US nak bagi discount??silap2 dapat UAV made in turkey
*
dunno, scaneagle pun under program yang serupa
maybe boleh la kot
Redhunt
post Aug 11 2019, 06:58 PM

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adui....ppl complaining dunno that russia have EVEN more muddy and swampy grounds than Malaysia la.....

pluss all the mush from snowmelt for extra fun

This post has been edited by Redhunt: Aug 11 2019, 07:01 PM
MilitaryMadness
post Aug 11 2019, 08:21 PM

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QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 11 2019, 12:18 PM)
Those easy kill you see are mostly outdated old T72 without separate ammo compartment prone to cookoff.
*
T-72 from the beginning houses its main ammunition in a rotary cassette on the base of its turret along with the connected autoloader equipment. The cassette itself is heavily armored and cannot be accessed during operation, with the loading port only opening during loading.

user posted image

The entire cassette, although the diameter occupies mostly the size of the turret ring, from a side profile angle, it only occupies a very small cross-section and very unlikely to be directly hit by an incoming round.

user posted image

However, due to the large size of the 125mm ammo, only 25 rounds can be loaded into the cassette. Compared to modern western tanks, this is woefully insufficient for a combat load. Most badly-trained crews will load up on extra ammo in the hull and turret for field-reloads instead of returning to reload at depots. This is what made the T-72 so flammable, not the original design.

Better trained crews who only use the ammo inside the cassette instead of stowing extra ammo all over the tank and increasing the fire risk made their tank much more survivable.

There is a report from Chechnya that a Russian Army T-72 surviving 11 armor penetration.


 

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