What do you guys think. Do you think it's worth studying overseas. Would it be better if we use that money for investment OK n the first place.

My late father who only studied up till form 5 told me that the reason why he saved up his money to sent me to study abroad is for me to see the world, be exposed to people, culture and life outside of Malaysia. It's not so much the actual education itself. He said it will help me become a better man.

You dun have to study to do that.

if not how then? how do you get this same experience? pray tell.

1. Work overseas.
2. Working holiday.
3. Travel by yourself

lol. are you talking from the context of a working adult now? i was talking more from the schooling age. in any case, i don't think you get it.

if you are a working adult thinking about going back to school, you take up something that adds value to your career path i feel. what do i know? it's your money, so there is no right or wrong decision.

True what if u never go outside u donno what going on out side mal. We been brainwash for too long dy. Our sejarah book keep say we multiculture veru unic padahal not a big deal at oversea ppl dont make a fuss about this kinda things. The list go on and on and on

No. I am talking in terms of schooling age. That money you saved by not going overseas. If you put in fd would probably cover your working years for quite a number of years.

In the past when education fees were not so expensive and you can actually cover them by working part time like my father did. I agree.

Im almost 50, to me studying for my Undergraduate degree in Canada was the most eye opening and best times of my life.

I had an opportunity to study for my diploma in local government university before going abroad. So I know how our local universities are.

I then did my Masters part time in Malaysia (but I did see how doing Master is so different from doing undergraduate degree in Canada, most of the time you
have to work independently) whereas for undergraduate group discussion is important.

In my working life, I did have short term assignments overseas. People tend to say working overseas, holiday is the same thing as studying overseas, I disagree.
It is a different type of experience

This post has been edited by thirumaran: Jul 9 2019, 01:22 PM

How sure are you that the education you receive is not brainwashing you.

In fact, I think the fact that a parent can somehow justify spending 300-400k in education requires some brainwashing.

Realistically, how long will it take to earn that money? And not just that money but the interest as well.

The brainwashing stage at ealry la not uni zzz
300-400k if u grad and work oversea 1-2 yr back dy if u back mal good luck getting that money back.

Well. The fact that you think that everything that is taught uni is factual is already some kind of brainwashing.

Yes and is not about the education alone.
See how big is the world and living in another country can have the profound life-changing experience to anyone. it let you know about the world and more importantly, about yourself.

You cant receive the same experience with a short visit to another place.

I studied in oversea and I will say yes too to my future kids

See the world is one thing. Self development and learning how to be independent is priceless

I never had the chance of studying oversea so i'm really interested on the experiences. Mind elaborate a little bit more? What's the difference of having to study for your degree in oversea vs study locally. What are the significant benefit someone could have for studying abroad for maybe 2-3 years and how would that affect your working life or what advantages you have?

i heard a lot of story that, even though they are oversea studying some of them still socialize with the same group of ppl (Malaysian) end up nothing has change (language capability, mindset, perspective, still shy, etc) Again, i'm saying just some and not all of them....

I donno in engineering what can u brainwash.....

OK. Why do you need to study your engineering degree overseas then.

[quote=khan,Jul 9 2019, 01:45 PM]I never had the chance of studying oversea so i'm really interested on the experiences. Mind elaborate a little bit more? What's the difference of having to study for your degree in oversea vs study locally. What are the significant benefit someone could have for studying abroad for maybe 2-3 years and how would that affect your working life or what advantages you have?
[/quote]

The local Msian university I studied at had a computer lab which had supports hundreds of students.  The Canadian University I attended had
only 20 students in my class and there were more than 20 computers in the lab (this is just one specific Engineering faculty).

You also have access to the lecturers almost any time as they are all working on some research papers themselves.

In terms of knowledge gained, I think Msian Universities are good, it's just that you are forced to interact and express yourself more over there.

I think you learn to adapt and mix better, even more so if you have to work and support yourself there.  And manage your finances better.

i heard a lot of story that, even though they are oversea studying some of them still socialize with the same group of ppl (Malaysian) end up nothing has change (language capability, mindset, perspective, still shy, etc) Again, i'm saying just some and not all of them....

[/quote]

This part is correct. At my Uni, there were hardly any Malaysians at that time. For first and final semester, I stayed at the dorm so I mingled with the locals.
In between, I stayed outside uni with a bunch of Canadians who never mingled with a Malaysian before. Note this was way back in 1993. For Christmas
and Thanksgiving, I got to stay with their families and really experience what it was like for them.

If you are going abroad, make sure you mingle with the locals there.

This post has been edited by thirumaran: Jul 9 2019, 02:09 PM

Yes its worth it. You can always earn money but not the exposure that studying overseas will bring you.

Money only carry value if you use them. So why not use money in exchange for experience and knowledge

Try Sweden or Germany

It’s free

Salute your late father!

judging from your comments, you seem to have already made up your mind about the merits of an overseas education. so, whats the point of even asking people here?

if money is the only thing that matters to you, save it and invest in stuff that can make you even more money. nothing much to add.

Good idea.

Worth or not is up to individual, it is once in a lifetime experience

When I was young, I studied in UK, work odd jobs to cover all the school fees and use the extra to travel nearby countries

Well yes. I have made up my mind. But then of course I could be wrong as well. And that is the point of having a discussion right? I mean just because I have made up my mind does not mean I cannot open up myself to other ideas. If people do not post just because they have made up their mind. I guess there will be much less activities in this forum in the first place.

Of course not everything can be measured by "money". For example, people buying mercedes etc. But then we all know that mercedes is like a luxury but education is not.

Let's look at the tangibles.

How much more can you earn if say you study overseas vs studying locally.

Maybe you guys should read this article
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-15/f...ecoming-useless

Some of you justify going overseas for the exposure. But then the main expense is on the education itself. So how?

I think the main reason why parents send their kids overseas is so that they can have a good future right. But then my point is, would you not have a good future just because you study locally.

If you justify studying overseas not by money. So what happens if after you finish studying overseas and you fail to get a good job. Is that a failure then. Because if you are honest, it's a failure considering the money "spent". So how do you justify this then.

and their chicks quite hhnngghh

got any tips to find work in UK (during study)

only good if you learn independent, if you spend luxury or daddys boy/girl go study where also same.

General bangla odd jobs should be very easy to find, if you are chinese, eg chinese restaurant, sweepers, cleaners etc.. need to mingle around senior/local community to find out

Just like the south east asia foreign workers here we always see them no up..

If you got the money and time, why not

To each their own.

Feel free to put your kids thru local U, alot of success story also local grad no issue. You can save alot of money.

For me, Insya-Allah, I'll put my kids thru Uni overseas for 3~4 yrs.

Of course if money is no issue. Probably. And when I mean no issue I mean you probably have 5 tines or more. And your kids will not be pressured to earn that money to cover the expense there is no burden on your part.

This post has been edited by TheRant: Jul 9 2019, 06:13 PM

Well. I would also say that it depends on the maturity level. When you are at your high teens, you are probably not mature enough to think about getting a part time job.

salary higher than local uni yo. Plus 1 year earlier to grad compared to STP. #Truestory

If you manage to get into Malaysian top government universities, consider taking the spots.

If not, you could try universities in Singapore,Korea, Japan, Western Europe or India if you are in a tight budget.

Studying overseas broadens your perspective of the world , it would help your career life if you are enrolled in a science or mathematics major in a competitive top university in the world.

Not really, it is down to how much bullet you got.. My dad borrow me the study fees.. means need to return la.. die die also have to work physically hard to survive

Yes , if you have a good results in Malaysia first . Or else , you go there just waste money.

This post has been edited by lwk523: Jul 9 2019, 06:51 PM

Depends... on what is your end goal. is it experience or the salary u get after u graduated.

To put things into perspective, i had a friend who went UK for 2 years for her degree. Her CGPA is about 3.6-3.7 but she only getting RM2.8k for her salary.

Meanwhile I never study abroad, just reputable private uni and I managed to get RM3.6K as my first job salary.

So basically, what is your goal? Experienced? Money? I can tell u that studying abroad wouldnt guarantee u high salary for sure.

Study overseas in a good uni and make friends that are not malaysian. Many Malaysians go overseas and just mix with Malaysians end up don’t learn anything

what if for both?

salary and experience of studying abroad

I think salary is individual basis, if you're good u can get good salary of course. but don't expect graduating degree abroad would massively boost your salary gains. I came from local university and still able to land RM3600 as a fresh grad in M&C

Network is king.

As someone who studied overseas for high school and 6 years uni, here are my observations.

1. If you are shy and passive, western education would at least make u sociable.
2. If you are not very academically inclined, the western education does nothing for you academically as they require proactiveness. However refer back to paragraph 1 tho.
3. If you are academically superior, this is where it really shines. Get into a great uni, mix with the right crowd, ie don't spend all your time with msians, you will be right up there with the world elites. Smart Msians are quite likeable overseas due to the language advantage, generally easy going in nature yet very very hardworking.

If you are group 1/2 and budget permits, go to cheap unis and it'll be enough. Extra points if the uni is located in an area cut off from Asian influence.

If you are group 3, go for the best uni u can afford. I rejected a full scholarship plus living allowance from a world top 30 law school to enter a world top 10 law school on 90% scholarship. U will see first hand what world class is.

So lucky... I graduated local private uni and my starting salary is the basic salary for degree grads



why? my course is the less demanded in Malaysia

If Ur purpose is to work in Msia

Just get any damn recognized degree will do la

Unless u talking bout working in some cutting edge research field.

U think go overseas study business u will become next young millionaire meh.

Unless u study at Wharton la.

Oh wai-

hi, your dad is indeed very wise. it was precisely my dilemma when I started Monash when they had a campus here. The things you experience is not something you can find here.

The mileage varies according to your attitude. If you tend to stick to same Mal and Sg friends and never take the effort to immerse in the local culture you gain little. I graduated from Australia and so what I say is based on the experiences I had there.

During my matriculation, a lot of materials were actually covered by our local Form 5 syllabus. One distinct memory that I remember was we (mainly my,sg and hk students) will attend class and studiously taking down notes on what was written. The lecturer has reminded us before to listen and try to understand rather than use all our concentration on copying notes. To emphasize this sometimes he would write something and erase it a few times wasting our effort. Sooner or later it dawned on us to listen first and understand before noting down what was said. That helped in understanding the subject matter as what we write down will be based on our own thoughts rather than blindly copying without understanding. The most memorable quote my physics teacher said was "I am not God, I can be wrong. Don't treat what I said as gospel. Question everything". We were brainwashed by our MY system not to question the teacher. There they encourage different thinking and voicing it out. That allows for a discussion to explore other ideas. Also were taught to memorise formulas as in MY writing out the formula can get some marks. There the teacher says not necessary to memorise as it would be given during exam. It is the understanding of the subject matter that is important, not regurgitating by rote memory. It was a transition whereby our opinion on a subject is more important than what some author says. They want to listen to our opinion, not because what someone else said.

Asians tend to be very competitive and kiasu and would eagerly to be ahead of others. This country is quite laid back by our standards. If you want to rush ahead thats fine, nobody is going to chase you type of mentality. As a result asians tend to slow down when they realise nobody is trying to outdo each other. My Sg and HK friends says they even walk slower in Au compared to their own country. Less pressure to compete when nobody is chasing you. Our local friends tend to have a healthy work life balance as the outlook it not just about work rather more on enjoying life. It was in Au that I learn a lot of my local friends take gap year where they go and travel around the world before starting work, something foreign and unheard concept here in MY.

In Uni, there was better chance to meet people from all walks of life. You have lots of locals who can be Italians, Vietnamese, Israelis ancestry, students from Africa, europe and all over. At least for me I took the effort to mix around and avoid fellow compatriots to expose to foreign culture. You have a greater appreciation of different way of thinking, culture than your own. It was like learning to work with others with different background and why some people have different thinking to a common subject matter. Make your stand and defend it, don't cave in just someone can shout loudest. Agree to disagree. My best friend from India was amazed that the tamil spoken on rtm is so pure like in India when he visited.
Locals like to mix with asians in class because we are more studious and can copy notes or homework while we in return like their lifestyle in enjoying life. Who doesnt like firing up the barbie in the backyard on a sat arvo while having 2 beers.

I would say I wasnt smart enough to get into local uni hence need to go oversea and I would not be who I am today as my eyes has seen so much even my way of thinking has changed. I now value opinions rather than what other regurgitates from what other people think. That is why I hate to see people sharing articles on facebook without a shred of their own opinion. Same as some posting on this forum, just rehashing what is reported without really offering meaningful insights or just plain trolling.

As I said from the start, the oversea experience is good only provided you take the effort to learn, if not then it not difference studying locally.

In most uni out there. You are still force to memorize during exams. Sharing facebook post without their own opinion is not something that is applicable just over here.

Are you sure that going to overseas university enhances creativity. The person who you replied to does not seem to have much of it.

Do you even have time to understand and writing it down in the first place.

This post has been edited by TheRant: Jul 13 2019, 07:54 PM

you are missing the forest for the trees. Nobody force you to memorise. If you are comparing to countries like China the you are probably correct. It was there that I was exposed to the idea understanding a subject matter is a better way to memorise fact. As for sharing stuff, it is a consequence of valuing opinion, I did not say it is limited to a particular geographic spot.

There are no guarantees of earning big buck cos you come from a foreign uni. You can justify however way you want, either using ROI, opportunity cost but there are some things in life you cant use money to measure. Sure I could have done it locally and use the money better. There are no right answer to this question, but I bet anyone studying overseas could tell you their life was made richer by the experience. Your mind seems made up so good luck on your future.


Are you sure that going to overseas university enhances creativity. The person who you replied to does not seem to have much of it.

Do you even have time to understand and writing it down in the first place.

Did not say it enhances creativity, mentioned earlier, your attitude is what determines you get. Oversea you have a higher chance to meet different culture and diff ideas, but if you close yourself to it, nobody can help you. Do not know on what basis you can say the person I reply to do not have creativity. Just a few paragraph and you can tell? Very dismissive

When you understand time constraint, you will automatically prepare yourself for it. Maybe go thru the material before the class, learn to write shorthand, simplify your thoughts in notes. Class is where you ask questions. If you do not know what is being said and just spend time copying will you have questions to ask?. All these are minute details, just look at the bigger picture as a whole.

This post has been edited by CRaider2: Jul 13 2019, 08:08 PM

I never said that understanding is not required. What I was implying is that exams do not give you much time to "think". The moment you "think", you already do not have much time left to finish your exam paper. If "memorizing" was not required, why do we still have mock examinations out there. Also, notice that most exams are not open book exams. If memorizing is not required, why are exams not open book then. Are you saying that you do not memorize the terms ,etc. You are already being very dishonest by hinting that there is no memorizing involved. I dare say that many people do not do well in exams because they just cannot memorize. If you think that memory is not part of the test, you are either lying or you have a bad memory. One of the selling points to studying overseas is that its more understanding rather then route learning. Of course that's a lie. I dare say that if most universities really stick to their principals and emphasize on understanding rather then route learning and focus more on open book exams. The passing rate would be much greater. In fact I dare say, most people flunk in their exams not because they do not understand but because they just could not remember everything. And to be honest, I know you probably could not accept it. It is in the university interest that there is a significant failure rate because if 80% of the people passes, their course would not be so prestigious anymore. If any Tom, Dick and Harry can pass the exam, why should they charge high tuition fees. In fact ask yourself this. If exams are really understanding base rather then rote learning base, why asians students always do well.

You are already making assumption that I am about to study overseas. In fact, you do not even know my background and you are making assumptions. Did your education taught you to make such assumptions? I guess when you get threatened you use ad hominen attacks right. This already shows you are on the losing end. Wow. Your argument is a very flawed one. I could also make the same argument by saying that driving a BMW will make my next 5 years richer. Of course you are now at a defensive because of your insecurities. You want to convince yourself that the decision to send you overseas is a good one. What are the tangibles pertaining to your experience overseas. In fact, one thing I like about the west is at least they are honest. They will tell you upfront that in most cases studying overseas is not worth is monetary especially if you are studying overseas. Of course tangibles have to be measured. If you studied overseas but yet you are not able to cover your tuition fees after working it's not too good right? Of course a few of you out there are going to be dishonest and say that your overseas education enriches your experience but I can bet many of the others would have thought otherwise as they realize that overseas education did not really give them a massive advantage. This is considering the fact that there are quite a few reputable twinning programs that are being set up in Malaysia. The only reason to justify sending someone overseas to study is so that they can have some advantage over those who are studying locally. Let's put it this way. If tertiary education was not so bad in Malaysia, would most parents send their kids overseas in the first place. I think that's the main reason why parents send their kids overseas right? Not for the experience you are describing.

Pertaining to what you said about facebook. You mention that you see facebook post regurgitating the same points over and over again. But then this is not just a local phenomenon. If you are exposed to "foreign" pages, you will realize that people will always support their favorite teacher no matter what.Most people do not have a opinion. Unfortunately, there are very few leaders in this world. Admittedly, over here it's about who shout the loudest. Overseas, it's a not a whole lot different actually. Try challenge popular views against LGBT , feminism , racism openly. See where that gets you. The reason why you would not challenge those views is because those views have already been embedded in your mind.

Try challenging your lecturer then. Answer the exams in a different manner then what is expected. See where that lands you in.

Are you sure students do not know how to write shorthand in classes. And there lies the main point. Most of the topics that the lecturer covers are in textbooks. I would say that in most cases, if you spend the time understanding the text book, you do not even need to go to the classes. But then most people do not admit it. In fact, if you tell me which classes you are attending, I could probably tell you the textbook to "refer" to. But then lecturers are dishonest and tell you that those textbook are "reference" materials. Because if they told you the truth that most of their materials are just from the textbook. Most people will not take them seriously. From your last paragraph, I can tell that you just cannot see that. The only thing is, you probably do not know where to start of with if you did not go for those courses.

This post has been edited by TheRant: Jul 15 2019, 12:23 PM

just forget about this guy. i dont think he has the ability to understand or accept anything.

See the typical ad hominen attack?
I guess overseas university trained you to be like this right?

That's the thing. I do not see any massive advantage just in this thread alone. So just because I disagreed with you, you say that I do not understand and do not accept anything right?

Guess this shows that there is not really a massive advantage in overseas education.

lel. ok bro. you can continue to be yourself. as you are.

You have proven me right led. You are not my bro anyway.

This post has been edited by TheRant: Jul 15 2019, 02:11 PM

Everyone's yardstick is different. My take is yes is worth it based on my observation on my closest peers that went abroad and never came back. Built a "better" life from my perspective. And im on my verge of taking a huge step going abroad and study at 40 to give my yardstick a few inch extra. So question your current priority. Experience or monetary investment?

Anyway. What do you plan to study and where? Anyways. Most of the time, the justification of studying abroad is not the actual education itself but then something else. Dun you think? And the actual reality is, the actual study itself is not really worth the cost unless you are doing a, masters or a, PhD. Or you are doing medicine or something whereby you actually work with the professors themselves. Of course if you are using your own money to study I cannot say anything.

If after you have read what I have written, you still feel it's worth it then go ahead. Maybe for youngsters the justification is perhaps a, new experience. But then for older people like us. Most of the information can be obtained by reading books itself.

I do see people going to say theological schools for example. I really do not see the point when most of the materials are already out there. And if one really learn by himself he would have gain the knowledge that the theological school has givenn anyways . I do not see how going to uni will increase one yard stick when it comes to knowledge. I think if someone spend that sane time learning by himself, he would gain the same and even more knowledge then going to uni. The only usefulness in going to uni is if you want to have an academic life or if you want to be certified. In fact that's the reason why ppl get certification in the first place. The actual exam is not very useful. They made the exam so hard so that very few ppl get certified. It's the cert that is useful. The system forces you to cram things into your head. That is why I find it funny that as someone said memorization is not required. Even at my level, if you do not memorize, you fail. They make the certification so hard, that the failure rate is high. And I can guarantee you that most ppl understand the stuff but cannot retain the stuff into their head. The only reason why we do it is because of the certification. But of course someone here is going to say that we do not understand enough and hence why we failed. One thing I want to add. The instructor just read from the course material and perhaps added something along the way but you could understand everything just by going through the material.

Call me arrogant. But then I do not see that going to uni makes one better. But that's my opinion. For example economics. If one got the correct site and watch the correct stuff, he would be as good as someone who did the whole course in uni itself. Of course like what you see in this thread the justification of going overseas is not the actual education itself but then it defeat the whole purpose right?

To be honest it's your life. But then I really do not recommend going to full time stuff at 40 because you dun have much time left. Unless it's some advanced management course. By the time you come out, you will not even be competitive anymore. Of course if money is not the issue then go ahead. But then I just really do not get the motivation at all to study at 40s.maybe it's just me.

This post has been edited by TheRant: Jul 15 2019, 07:14 PM

Hi OP,

I was sponsored to study overseas and I would say that spending that money (RM 500k to 1mil) to enter a prestigious university (top 20 schools in the degree you study) would be a good decision for any family that can afford it.

Firstly, the long term monetary benefits will present itself - say you study computer sciences in the US, and come out with a decent job of about $8k a month, i.e. $ 100k a year. Post tax and living expenses, you would probably save (as a single male, no family commitment) at least 20 - 30% of that, which is RM 100k. Factor in bonus and promotions (which is likely in a merit-based, developed nation), you would probably make your education back in 5 years. Your argument about putting it into any local investment (by the way you even referred to 'FD' as investment...) is rather silly, when the MY stock market has been stagnant for the past 3 years + when FD barely gives u inflation + 1% returns.

Secondly, I had pretty wonderful schooling years as I attended a top uni in central London and visited many European countries in almost every study break I had. I could go to free museums, parks and public installations that barely cost a dime - because that's what matured cities are about, providing livable spaces for its people. I was learning how to live on my own in a foreign country and mingle among a diverse, international campus where in every corner you hear people engaged in politics, social science discussions.

You would realise that any of the above (point 2) would not be possible if you just go for twinning program at a run-off-the-mill university far from industrial city. And to that way of 'studying overseas', I do agree that it is a waste of time. Malaysian students spending their parents' hard earned money to travel in Europe for 3 months, always sticking around their own MY clique (tbf it applies to almost all Asian students), and came back working at SMEs.

All in all, I believe that you have too little exposure of what overseas studies entail. The level of intellectual discourse, or even the education support between local and foreign unis is actually very wide (local national unis are uncompetitive, and only few local private unis produce competent graduates that can perform and socialize well in professional settings).

Why FD is not an investment. You talk as if stocks in general give you more then FD. But I guess only something that provides 5-6% returns counts as investment right? The reason why I mentioned FD is because stocks is not the best place to put your money at this time. Of course if you are willing to take the risk and invest in say us stocks or bitcoins be my guess. The reason why I used FD as an example is because it's the safest.


Are you sure you would save 20-30% that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm2pYoSnnBo

And that is provided you manage to even get a job in those companies.
BTW, I find it ironic that you did not even describe your situation.

I think the fact that you ask parents to put spend a sum of RM500k to RM1mill on their kids is a little irresponsible. What if say their kids did not make it. And even if they did make it. Are they going to save 20% as you mentioned. Because to be earning that salary you mentioned, they will have most likely have to be based in that area above. And even then it's not a guarantee that they will get that job over there. Maybe you should learn a little bit on risk management.

Anyway. As I mention earlier. Most of the subjects in the universities, there is probably a text book that cover each of them. As I mentioned earlier, your interaction with the lecturers are limited unless you are at the masters or phd level.

YES

Let me rebut it one by one. Stocks do return more than FD, just pull up NASDAQ's new high and look at your measly FD returns, you'll know what I'm talking about. In unexciting markets like MY or SG (Asean in general), of course returns are poor. I have been investing since my uni years in foreign markets - again, something that people without overseas exposure won't be at advantage to do, simply because they will not understand the local economy, the startup scenes nor view the actual storefronts.

Next, I have emphasised that being a single male saves lots of expenses. In fact this applies to anywhere you live. Sure SF is an area where ppl have been priced out due to the abundance of tech firms, but you can't point at the US' most unequal neighborhood and generalise the case across the 51 states. The sheer number of US and UK companies that could pay you a decent wage while being located in midwest / cheaper eastern states / outer London (say Birmingham, Cambridge, Manchester) are quite unimaginable if you know where to look. Software engineers and coders could also work remotely, and intangible benefits (dinner claims etc) also help to alleviate living cost. Next, some consultants don't even live in their homes and live the frequent flyer, Tumi luggage life. And these are pretty demanding professions that require network, critical thinking, academic knowledge to succeed - again, lacking in average unis.

It's not ironic la I just don't think it adds to the discussion? I'm sponsored for my undergraduate, hence working with the company that sponsors my study. So my job seeking process / career path is obviously not the same as the ones who are privately funded. I on the other hand am interested to know why you are this disillusioned, are you becoming a father and getting afraid of spending money on your children?

TBH, getting a job in the UK / US aren't that difficult if you know what you are after, and how you want to get there. Even working in a 2nd tier professional services (take a 2k GBP job in an SME from the UK, whereas premium consulting or professional services could start at 4k+) would likely mean earning 3 times the Malaysian salary. Add that to better public healthcare, transport, food and living quality, I honestly do not see why

And quite happy to see you bring the topic back to actual benefits of university study. Universities, I emphasise again, provide you the resources (something as simple as a Bloomberg Terminal, networking events). You can say that people don't have to spend a lavish amount to succeed, but honestly how many people become top guitar / chess players / soccer players / consultants without getting a techer / entering an academy / paying for consulting case studies? We are simply analysing the benefits and costs, and to me if the family can afford it (i.e. not having to strap their belt or cut back on consumption), the mere experience of studying a good Ivy / Oxbridge uni is worth it, not even talking about the job opportunities that come your way.

Given that business environments entail more risk for incoming entrepreneurs and the increasing gaps between uni graduates from top / bottom unis, the importance of a degree is only going to increase, unless you are willing to take alternative routes.

This post has been edited by bursageek: Jul 15 2019, 10:51 PM

Ok appreciate your discussion.

Well. For NASDAQ stocks in general. I would think based on PE ratios, they are pretty overvalued right? Most of their "valuation" comes from future expectation. I dunno. But of course if you research properly, there should be no issues for you right? I dunno. But dun you think right now, it's a bubble everywhere? Maybe I am wrong and you can correct me on this. But the US Economy is not doing pretty well right? Also, there is a problem of share buybacks. If we leave it to fundamentals itself, those stocks would not have gone up but then companies actually buyback their own stocks and push the stock price up. This is very unethical because the profits that those companies earn should be reinvested. It also mean that people are buying the stocks at a higher price then what is normally at. The other thing is also QE. Without QE, I think the crash would have been much earlier. I actually invested in the "crash" but I guess I underestimated what they can do. Also the other thing to consider is the fact that just like bitcoin, the us stock market is actually controlled by a "few hands". I dunno. Call me a conspiracy theorist. I think bitcoins is also hold by a few hands. When this happen, those people can manipulate the price pretty easily. But of course, if you are making money out there, you are successful. I mean you are at least better then people who keep their money on cash. Its a funny world we are living in though. Where fundamentals does not matter anymore. Not saying you are wrong. You are right if you are making money and if you know how to exploit the situation.

You are right in the other points. I mean if you can afford it(Having say 6 times of networth compared to the cost) then maybe you should go for it. Also you are right. It's not just the actual education itself. But then kids should also have the maturity to take advantage of the situation and realize that their parents are not just paying for the actual education. But then if you are 17-19 years old, it's questionable whether you actually have that maturity or not. The thing is the education you are describing right now is not just the learning part but then other things as well.

Well. I am not married yet. Just wanted to create this thread for discussion that's all. I have a situation actually but I am not comfortable to share as of now.

Of course there's also the thing about student debt. But I guess you would probably say that taking debt is not worth it right?

Just curious. I look at your sig and found out that you are researching on Malaysian stocks. I thought you are investing in Nasdaq?

This post has been edited by TheRant: Jul 16 2019, 04:10 PM

I always thank my parents for the opportunity to study in America.

The exposure, standard of education and career opportunities I had as a result could not be replicated locally.

It only is useful if the student is below 30 though. Anything more than that your career experiences will bring you to better places.

So did you work in US as well?

Yes.

Employers smirk at Malaysia university.

Yes, 3 years during my studies and till 5 years after graduation.

A myth at best in the real world.

In today's world with foreign certs? Mehhhhhhh

10-15 years ago could be a diff story

Studied in London and spent close to RM 500,000 (3 years, had a car, rent the whole apartment)

Came back MY with initial salary of MYR 2,500

Where da fuk is the ROI?

I should have just continued my bach in Taylors and probably gonna spend MYR 100,000

But studying abroad 'unlock' another mindset which im grateful to have that kind of mindset now

This post has been edited by CommonPeople: Jul 17 2019, 05:52 PM

I think if u have extra money, it's a good experience.

Else, local is fine

Well.maybe that "mindset" is just to comfort yourself?

agree.

I never said that understanding is not required. What I was implying is that exams do not give you much time to "think". The moment you "think", you already do not have much time left to finish your exam paper. If "memorizing" was not required, why do we still have mock examinations out there. Also, notice that most exams are not open book exams. If memorizing is not required, why are exams not open book then. Are you saying that you do not memorize the terms ,etc. You are already being very dishonest by hinting that there is no memorizing involved. I dare say that many people do not do well in exams because they just cannot memorize. If you think that memory is not part of the test, you are either lying or you have a bad memory.  One of the selling points to studying overseas is that its more understanding rather then route learning. Of course that's a lie. I dare say that if most universities really stick to their principals and emphasize on understanding rather then route learning and focus more on open book exams. The passing rate would be much greater. In fact I dare say, most people flunk in their exams not because they do not understand but because they just could not remember everything. And to be honest, I know you probably could not accept it. It is in the university interest that there is a significant failure rate because if 80% of the people passes, their course would not be so prestigious anymore. If any Tom, Dick and Harry can pass the exam, why should they charge high tuition fees. In fact ask yourself this. If exams are really understanding base rather then rote learning base, why asians students always do well.


//Please go thru my comment and highlight where did I say or imply no memorizing is involved? I thought this is supposed to be a matured discussion about the merits and inferiority of overseas education where opposing opinions are supposed to matter. Your logic leap on what I said is magnificent. If you read my comments I was neutral throughout and shared my experience and in what way was I lying about what I experienced? I might be too stupid to perceive them from my limited experience but it what I think. Agree or not your comments is uncalled for. You sure know a lot for someone who has not studied overseas and very set on what sort of answers that should be given.


You are already making assumption that I am about to study overseas. In fact, you do not even know my background and you are making assumptions. Did your education taught you to make such assumptions? I guess when you get threatened you use ad hominen attacks right. This already shows you are on the losing end. Wow. Your argument is a very flawed one. I could also make the same argument by saying that driving a BMW will make my next 5 years richer. Of course you are now at a defensive because of your insecurities. You want to convince yourself that the decision to send you overseas is a good one. What are the tangibles pertaining to your experience overseas. In fact, one thing I like about the west is at least they are honest. They will tell you upfront that in most cases studying overseas is not worth is monetary especially if you are studying overseas. Of course tangibles have to be measured. If you studied overseas but yet you are not able to cover your tuition fees after working it's not too good right? Of course a few of you out there are going to be dishonest and say that your overseas education enriches your experience but I can bet many of the others would have thought otherwise as they realize that overseas education did not really give them a massive advantage. This is considering the fact that there are quite a few reputable twinning programs that are being set up in Malaysia. The only reason to justify sending someone overseas to study is so that they can have some advantage over those who are studying locally. Let's put it this way. If tertiary education was not so bad in Malaysia, would most parents send their kids overseas in the first place. I think that's the main reason why parents send their kids overseas right? Not for the experience you are describing.

//Again, I wished you good luck on whatever you determined as I have the foggiest clue on your decision. Your life u live the way u want. Where in my sentence did I imply you are going overseas? The way you answer is so defensive and making allegations where there is none. My education apparently is not as good as yours and my insecurity made me insinuate a lot of things and maybe fabricating my experiences. If you are going to start a thread with preconceived notions and slam anyone who shares a different opinion then why act noble and ask for opinion when apparently only yours is the one that matter.



Pertaining to what you said about facebook.  You mention that you see facebook post regurgitating the same points over and over again. But then this is not just a local phenomenon. If you are exposed to "foreign" pages, you will realize that people will always support their favorite teacher no matter what.Most people do not have a opinion. Unfortunately, there are very few leaders in this world. Admittedly, over here it's about who shout the loudest. Overseas, it's a not a whole lot different actually. Try challenge popular views against LGBT , feminism , racism openly. See where that gets you. The reason why you would not challenge those views is because those views have already been embedded in your mind. 
Try challenging your lecturer then. Answer the exams in a different manner then what is expected. See where that lands you in.

//I said before it is my personal opinion. What has challenging popular view has to do with it? You then assume I would not challenge those view becos it is embedded in my mind. Tell me what exactly is embedded in my mind. Challenge my lecturer? Been there done that. I survived and landed in a good spot actually. Again you seem to know me very well and my lecturer as well.



Are you sure students do not know how to write shorthand in classes. And there lies the main point. Most of the topics that the lecturer covers are in textbooks. I would say that in most cases, if you spend the time understanding the text book, you do not even need to go to the classes. But then most people do not admit it. In fact, if you tell me which classes you are attending, I could probably tell you the textbook to "refer" to. But then lecturers are dishonest and tell you that those textbook are "reference" materials. Because if they told you the truth that most of their materials are just from the textbook. Most people will not take them seriously. From your last paragraph, I can tell that you just cannot see that. The only thing is, you probably do not know where to start of with if you did not go for those courses.




//You said student has no time to copy down. I merely suggested shorthand as a way to speed things up. No way did I say students do not know how to write. Yes it is true everything is in the textbook. Then why even bother to go uni at all? Self taught, but society demands you to get that piece of paper. My inferior experience with my uni is that textbook is only the basis of concepts which is about 30% of the course, the 70% is based on real world projects where my lecturers show us what is said in the textbook, then highlight to us what actually is being done in the real world. I am pretty certain what I experienced, however you seem to know I am wrong, for someone who has not even gone overseas to study but has vast amount of knowledge of what is wrong there.

The only assumption I am going to make is this thread is a total waste of time as you are not open to other people's ideas, and has a deep seated bias and resort to name calling people who glorify overseas education. Only the insecure will call others that and it would be fitting for someone who enjoys smelling their own flatus. My notion of you is that you are a follower in life from your comments on Nasdaq, and beholden to people who show some sort of intellectual superiority. Don't bother to respond as I will not be commenting any further

This post has been edited by CRaider2: Jul 23 2019, 03:46 AM

Been out of Malaysia for more than 15 years. Did my first degree in Malaysia and masters overseas. And I can say that the years I spend overseas studying is really priceless. At that time I am stilll young and energetic and get to meet more people from around the world. It is the experience which you can never buy. Understanding the different cultures and I can say that my current jobs owe much to my years spend studying abroad. Working abroad now is totally different than studying. ANd I still miss the those years.

My outlook in life is very simple. Life is too short to just think about making more money. Regret I do have now is not dating more girls form other countries! Cant do that now as I am already married to a non Malaysian.

I decided to edit this to give a more thorough explaination.
You did implied that very little memorization is required. This is what I said earlier.



For which you then replied.


So you admit that you are a liar now? I never said you were lying about your experience in overseas. I was saying that you were lying about saying that understanding and not memorization is required in university. You are really capable though. For implying things I NEVER SAID.

Well you dun even understand what you wrote I wonder how you understand what your lecturer said.
This is where you implied that I was to go over seas


Making allegations when there is none? Or maybe you have a reading comprehension at even the things you wrote.

Nah it is probably a waste of time discussing with you. Please do not respond. I feel a little bit more stupid just reading your post.

Analysis on things like Nasdaq is probably not for people like you,

It takes one to call one remember that. The fact that you make the commend that you are not going to reply the next time but yet took the time to write a long post shows that you are the one who is insecure. I studied overseas b4 for your info and I have the courage to do a cost analysis on this.

This post has been edited by TheRant: Jul 26 2019, 05:45 PM

You are pretty good though. I answered to your point but then you are dishonest. It's impossible to actually discuss with you when you say something and later deny later.

For one. I never said that you fabricated your experience. I was saying that you should measure in terms on tangibles. Everyone can say that they have an experience that "money cannot buy". For example, I can plan to go go to Paris in order to have "an experience that money cannot buy". But then I do not have much savings. Do I then decide to go to Paris to experience an "experience that money cannot buy".

I think in my previous post, I actually answered your concern but then you are incapable to do so in kind. You accuse me of the actual thing you do. I never asserted that you fabricated your experience. And I think you know that but then all you want to do is win at all costs.

Anyways. Can sense your bitterness. That is why you do not even care to actually reply to my comment because you are afraid that I will know about it. And your cowardly way of replying and then saying that you will not reply to my post tells me a lot about your character.

And you actually say that I am close minded when I agreed with what Bursageek was writing. Who is the bitter one.

You are no different from the people who post commands in facebook without thinking to be honest.

Who is calling who name now since you mention about NASDAQ.

Of course now you ask why bother going to uni. And my answer is to get that cert. But then if cert is all that matters it does not matter which uni to go to right?

This post has been edited by TheRant: Jul 26 2019, 07:36 PM

Whether going overseas is the right path for you depends on what you intend to pursue and what your goals are. If you're planning to spend the money to go abroad, do make sure that you're spending it on a degree that is likely to offer you a high chance of employment coming out of school - the best at this time are computer science, finance, math & statistics (data science) for high earning in-demand careers right out of undergrad.

Once you've chosen a useful area of study, the second thing to make sure of is that you can work in the overseas location where you're studying during the time that you are student there. It will be essential that you get local work experience via internships or student work placements while you are completing your degree. Without this experience it might be very hard to find a job after graduation, and you're unlikely to maximize your parents' investment if you have to go back to Malaysia and start your career under the Malaysian pay scale

I know that you mentioned Australia in your post, but if you're a superstar student do try shooting for elite colleges in the US, the UK, and Canada. In my experience the average quality of top graduates from those countries (particularly Tier 1 US schools) tends to be higher than the average Australian graduate (although there are definitely some good Aussie professionals out there too) and your projected earnings from starting out in each of those countries will likely be higher as well.

Although a good amount of your time in school should be spent studying to make sure that your GPA is high, it will be important for you to be social as well. Join clubs where you can show leadership and meet new friends and professionals in your field - those are contacts that can help you later. Generally, try and find a few hours a week to be social. Remember that hiring managers and teams are made up of people and they want to work with people they'll like, so you're doing yourself a big favour if you come across as likeable and charismatic during the interview process - this is easier said than done and difficult to fake, so building your social skills throughout your undergrad journey will be helpful. Asian culture tends to heavily stress academics and downplay social skills, and that frequently results in graduates that have great resumes but struggle in interviews because they come across as woody or robotic...

Anyway if you think you can do that all the stuff above, I'd say definitely do go overseas to study because the experience you gain from doing college right and starting a career in a high-income country will probably change your life for the better. If not, maybe just study domestically, get some professional experience for a couple of years in a big office in Malaysia, and then once you get disillusioned with corporate life and have built some professional skills, use the money your parents saved by not sending you overseas to start your own business

I am of the same view of getting first degree locally but at the top public universities n then post graduate overseas.

Lmao sorry. I posted this on the wrong thread and can't find a way to edit/delete. Still semi-relevant here I guess...

with the increasingly expensive costs associated with it, i believe it has to be justified. if your notion is simply study in overseas for the sake of "overseas" i would say no. unless you have a strong motivation behind such as studying in one of the top universities for the particular expertise that you wished to learn and practice in the future. exposure is overrated, in the end its your effort to learn and network that truly counts. many do study abroad and come back to msia to work with stories of getting drunk, and thats about it

This post has been edited by ukauka2020: Jul 30 2019, 12:33 PM

its oni worth it if u get a job overseas n work thr , then u can regain bck the cost u paid for the course

but if u go overseas study but come bck malaysia work, then dont waste ur money la, better just go local unis, u can spend 500k-1 million n then come back here earn 3-4k as freshie? how long u gonna take to recoup the 500k u spent for the overseas degree?

i got a fren, went to UK study degree n masters, graduated from top uni, LSE to b specific, he spent almost myr 1 million to study in UK up to masters

then cnt find job in UK, n come bck malaysia here work, his parents mortgaged their house to pay for his education overseas, n after he came bck to msia n work here, he actually was very regret for studying overseas, his parents spent so much n sacrificed so much for him, n he felt the overseas degree he have is not really useful, yes he studied in top uni in UK n very easy to get jobs in top companies here, but he spent so much more compared to his colleagues who went to local private unis n spending much lesser for their degrees or masters, when is he going to recoup the almost 1 million he spent on his education in UK?

he is already carrying such a huge debt when he started working n his parents are not rich, just normal working class n they have to mortgage their house n use their savings to pay the fees, he felt very guilty to put his parents in such situation n now repaying money to his parents for the loan he took to study overseas

double post

This post has been edited by rooney723: Jul 30 2019, 11:59 PM

Pity the parents, now their retirement plan has to be downgraded. Surprised that even LSE graduate needs long time to recoup back 1m.

Yeap if a family is only average financially then its silly to spend that much money for the kid to not pursue something greater.

Going to elite unis are really only suitable for few types of students.
1) rich families
2) highly ambitious and motivated and will do whatever it takes to reach the top
3) bright student under scholarship

Your friends case is neither and therefore its seriously a colossal waste of time and money. The shitty thing is he only realises its not useful after spending that much money.

cos he is working in malaysia nw, if he found a job in UK n worked thr he would have no problem to recoup his uni fees,

i hav other high schoolmates who studied in top unis in UK and managed to get a job thr after they graduate, but not all who went to study in UK can land a job thr, mayb 20-30% oni managed to land a job thr, the rest all hav to come bck malaysia to work

so my LSE fren actually took a rm1 million gamble to get a job/settle down in UK and he lost and now hav to spend many decades to repay bck the loan he took frm his parents

yup, and if wan to work overseas hav to go to those ivy league unis or oxbridge unis etc, those can almost guarantee an employment overseas after graduation

and if the student is good enough, he would hav been sponsored (getting scholarships) to go to those ivy league unis and dont need to fork out a single cent for his tertiary education

if the student hav to pay the exorbitant fees himself then he is most likely is not going to those ivy league unis and oni go to those top 100 unis like monash, LSE, UCL, nottingham, ANU etc, those unis are expensive n wont guarantee employment overseas after graduation

Agree. LSE/UCL/UniMelb are decent, but they ain’t no Ivy League level

p.s. Nottingham is not even top100

This post has been edited by James1983: Jul 31 2019, 03:57 PM

A big YES. It will broaden your view seeing other people and cultures besides for education purpose.

it was during my time, bck in early 2010s

yeah b like my fren, spent 1 mil to study until masters in LSE then come bck msia to work

n seeing other ppl n cultures for wat? so dat he can brag to his local uni colleagues? he got how many angmoh frens? he went to the whole europe on trips? he can speak wif a little british slang? spent all 1 million so dat u can brag to ur frens or colleagues? hahaha

Just do twinning
best of both worlds.

I was part of American Degree Program but unable to go there because of 1996-1998 crisis. I continued my study here instead. No problem.
I have seniors who finished their studies there and none of them are as per your description. Clearly, you have 'masalah hati'.

thats why i asking u, what other advantages studying overseas bring? get to know the ppl n culture and so? in the end they are going to come bck malaysia work anyway, they are not gonna work or settle down overseas, so wats the use of those different cultures n people they noe? so that they can kiss their expat angmoh bosses here better? hahahaha

and is it worth to spend 500k to 1 million for those 'experiences'? putting ur parents into great debt mortgaging their house n taking their savings to fund for ur overseas education? its their money n u r not entitled for it, dont think that its ur birthright to spend their hard earned money like dat

unless ur parents is very rich la, the dat is diff story, yes go ahead n study overseas as much as u wan, but if ur parents is not rich n just middle class, dont b the charsiew children n die die wan go overseas study

To be honest with you, I'm doubtful in regards to the economic benefits of studying overseas. Been there and done that and I figured that while there are secondary benefits such as the cultural exchange, learning to live independently and so forth, I feel that all of these can be replicated locally.

People put a strong emphasis on the teaching standards and so on. My opinion after being in industry for a near decade is that 99 percent of what they teach you in an Angmoh uni is just as useless when you come out to work. You're just there for the paper as much as people like the sugarcoat it all.

Being in the top 100 is just for naming prestige, that why I chose the unis I went to. I didn't really feel I was magically going to get a bajillion skills more than Joe bloggs who went to University of Woop Woop.

At least you are honest. Compared to those who are being so defensive.

---

This post has been edited by pmaxv: Dec 31 2019, 01:57 AM

I agree. I only came to understand my own country Malaysia after staying in Australia for a total of 356 days (multiple entries).

I went to Melbourne, to be precise, during 2013 ~ 2015. I understand at least a few things:
- Australia implemented GST at the time, their receipts were Tax Invoice. So I cope it well when Malaysia started implementing the same taxation in 2016.
- Wave debit card and enter PIN to checkout. Again, I cope it well when Malaysia started doing the same way since 2017(?).
- Their banking app is awesome and use PIN to login. Well, I do hope to see Malaysian banking app will apply the same technique in the future
- Melbourne can be as hot as 40 degree Celsius in summer. Malaysia does not have both extreme weather (winter and summer)
-etc (....you name it)

I give another perspective. There are many locals who had never been interested in visiting local attraction, like aquarium, national science center, museum, etc.

But when go other countries, somehow these they will see as tourist attractions and can plan dragon plan lion to visit make timetable all.

Shows the perception of indulging something outside seem glamorous and grand. Same to those who says "study abroad for the cultural exchange and independent experience - when come back will become a totally matured person!". So far i see this as bullcrap. Asians are asians, never changes. Mingle only amongst themselves, no balls to smoke weed and not likely interested in rock climbing, xtreme stuffs like that. If pama got money, go la for the fun see the world